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When tessellation is applied, added textures are filled in, or bulged out, as the case may be. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Overfiend
Nice try, and I thank you, since that was all you had, the massive bedrock that remained untouched is impressive.:D
my apologies if im wrong here,Quote:
Originally Posted by SiliconDoc
but your attitude is showing obvious sarcasm and extreme fanboyism and you are hunting down people trying to portray nvidia as your god. thats truly my interpretation of your posts.
you quoted me out of continence, but really quoting is used for replying directly to that person, unless you specify that your not.
you also seemed to take my point out of context, because when i use the word "this" its relevant to things stated just before my post, which was the news about nvidia pushing for more things to work better on their hardware from the start, rather than doing things normally and having a driver war, we have a hardware compatibility war. if i had made my exact same post this far into the thread, i would have to clarify things more since the topic has changed greatly.
my perspective is simple, i do not appreciate nvidia doing things to enhance their sales, at the cost of the rest of the world. with physx, the argument ive stood by is that they can offer nearly the same IQ, with half the resources, and nearly the same with any quad core out there. basically its bloated and inefficient. im not saying phsyx sucks or looks like crap, but that they build it to run like crap assuming we will all get in line like sheep because we dont know what it could have looked like if they catered to mid class.
now we move onto tessellation, where weve already herd HAWX 2 uses a method that dosnt favor AMD, and now we have crysis being updated so that it works best on the most expensive card out there. tessellation is a great idea, but can be done wrong very easily. and guess what, nvidia is about selling as many expensive cards as possible, not about offering the same IQ for midrange people.
summary: i want to see optimized, not bloated games, and nvidia dosnt seem to agree
Unless my dates are wrong the R600 was released on May 2007 while Crysis wasn't released until November 2007. Competition was there at the time the game was released. Furthermore, previous gen derivatives were available upon release of Crysis. And we know the game worked using older video cards :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorphous
Was Crysis specifically coded for tessellation? As I recall there was no such thing back than. If it wasn't I don't think it's limited to just tessellation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorphous
Having read the remainder of your post you seem extremely upset over this. Perhaps you are unaware but their newer version of their engine is multi platform. So, IMO, the days of having a specifically PC coded Cryengine will come to an end with Crysis 2. Some think that the game won't look as good as it's predecessor. Some don't care. However, I think we can all agree that this game won't cater to the PC gaming crowd specifically. Therefore, there is no real need to make it specifically for one video card over another. :up: It remains to be seen from the company if this is true or not. I hope it's not true but having seen that slide it won't be any shock to me if it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorphous
Ummmm, no textures are not magically improved when tessellation is applied. Tessellation actually increases the need for higher resolution textures otherwise the added geometric detail is muddied by low resolution art.Quote:
Originally Posted by SiliconDoc
It's not nVidia's job to write CPU physics libraries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
physx is used in many games as cpu only, so they already have that part done,Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
the statement was about resources needed relative to eye candy, nothing more
Ok, let me rephrase that. It's not nVidia's job to write software to take advantage of hardware they don't sell - i.e. quad core cpus. Any work they do in that regard is either a favor or something they view as advantageous to their end goal of selling graphics cards.
Well, that's good you realize the card has to work to fill in the textures, but the idea behind it, is of course, quite magic, since EFFICIENCY in doing so is the result of tessellation.Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
So "tessellated textures" would be those that reside atop the more detailed wire frame, hence the whole idea and claimed reason for tessellation, more detail with less work.
I see you are having an argument with yourself in a desperate attempt for a non-existent correction. :rofl:
Now you can go back to textures themselves are not "tesselated", in a word game quite worthy of the thread.
Apology accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
Now, isn't it true that if you didn't have this big 'ol hatefest chip and conspiracy theory against NVidia with let's face it, multiple screeds, there would be no "fanboy" problem ? :yepp:
I mean I can take it or leave it, if I want PhysX I'll buy an NVidia card, and if I could care less, I'll buy an ATI card.
I've got no problem - I have choices.
But you WANT something that you aren't getting. You're angry, you're demanding, you have a giant set of chips on your shoulders, you're on a mission to do some damage and take it out on that which you hate and disagree with.
You are, therefore, the fanboy, not I.
I merely explained the very simple freedom/ rights/western world/ everyone knows it by the time they are an adult, how it works, you do your thing you make it you own it you get paid, you buy you sell - the greatest thing man has yet achieved for a society...
But you don't want that ! You are filled with self righteous indignation to the brim and want your way, or the highway, and if that target of yours does not do your will, that's it ! You know what's best for the world, for everyone, and darn it, Nvidia did not do that!
So, you're not the dictator, you're not the owner, you aren't the one calling the shots for nvidia in your perfect fantasy world, so you're dang mad.
That's a fanboy, buddy. You "cling" to ati as a result.
I don't have a problem with ATI ( you might say I complained about their debt and drivers and lack of add ons, but that's their deal, their situation, and I realize that's the way it is, and don't demand some power or the right to change that - I pointed out I realize they might not be ABLE to change that - indeed instead I merely hoped the Cayman would be a great miracle that straightened some of that out- ati is 1/4th nvidia's size and so that's how the ball bounces), and I don't have a problem with NVidia.
But you do. You want nvidia to do what you say, want them to have done what you have determined would be better for you and the world, claim they could have and should have, and you demand it, the sooner the better, or you're on their case, and anyone's who doesn't see it your way, and has the brains to say why.
According to you NVIDIA has SINNED ! :slapass:
Well, that's fanboyism to me.
I on the other hand accept the two situations and purchase accordingly.
Really, take a look, I'm attacked for defending nvidia, but let's face, you're attacking nvidia you're on a rampage, attacking attacking attacking... you're the one with the big 'ol problem and fury.:D
Sorry, I don't buy a single word of it, and for good reason, as I have extensively explained !
I say, drop the hatred and the demands ! :up:
My god, your logic is terrible. Just because he's being demeaning to a company he's in love with ATI? Disliking one thing implies liking another?
Furthermore, a fanboy is not someone who is overly critical of a company. A fanboy is someone who irrationally loves a company. Your opinions are quite irrational, as ATI has produced miracle after miracle since the nadir of the R600 series. Other classic symptoms include: complaining about their debt (when it doesn't matter to you), and complaining about their drivers (lol). From an objective standpoint nvidia has only managed to execute in top end (at the expense of going deaf) and the sweet spot recently, while in the past generation they got taught a hard lesson in pricing by ATI.
x86 and DX11 hardware are very special duopolies. They're special because you have two companies that are producing hardware meant to run one class of software libraries. Can you connect the dots and see what will happen if one hardware manufacturer begins to polarize the software its product can run?
Leave this thread. Your lack ... nay, negative contributions are pretty nauseous.
Look no further than here anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
The above are just some of the many examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindbox
I'm just telling you guys to be wary of him. Don't shoot the messenger! :up:
I said, specifically, as a result of his nvidia hate chips, he clings to ati.Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
Now you may be ADDING "your definition" of fanboy to my words, but in a two card world, there's really not much distinction or difference, and that of course, is the reason my logic is 100% sound.
He despises nvidia, and thus, he clings to ati. The result is such, unless of course it's really weird, and he's into IDT, Intel I740, or something.... ( which of course I doubt)
So, wether he loves ati or not, to really stick it to nvidia, he can praise ati like the fanboys of such note do, and of course, they almost invariably at some point open up the same screeds against nvidia... " the corporate culture and evil business practices".
I submit I am certainly far more accurate than you.
you know nothing about me or why i purchase things, your every assumption is horribly wrong.
if im such a fanboy, why have i spent only 180$ on video cards in the last 3 years?
owned the same motherboard for almost 4 years now?
or still on ddr2?
cause i prefer to buy what works great for the price, and i only upgrade when i actually feel like i need something.
physx and tessellation are so premature right now that its not worth a 5$ premium to me (if the cost difference was really just 5$). if they were implemented right, and the cost was right, then i sure would jump right on it. but for now both are utter failures to me. this dosnt mean i hate nvidia, if i needed to use cuda i would get one right away.
Wut, how is he clinging to ATI?
Let's abstract your logic:
"I dislike one thing." You imply: "Therefore I have to like its competitor."
So far, while ATI has paid off developers to optimize games (maybe with Valve?) I don't think they've been promoting proprietary packages (CUDA and PhysX) ad nauseum in reviews (reviewer's guide for nvidia GTX2xx: PHYSX CUDA PHYSX CUDA). So until they do so, in many people's eyes they continue to a little bit better as far as marketing and overall arrogance are concerned.
But that above paragraph is not the point. The point is that your logic is childish reflects your mindset accordingly.
So, you're saying you love ati, and I should as well, even though you just said him hating nvidia does not mean he loves ati, and then, immedaitely afterwards you go on to explain why I should love ati as you do. :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
Next you explain why I love nvidia... here it comes
[QUOTE]Other classic symptoms include: complaining about their debt (when it doesn't matter to you),[?QUOTE]
We just saw BFG disappear, AMD was on the top 10 for bankruptcy last year, so of course it matters, as even now they can't pay for the driver teams properly.
OF COURSE it matters to me, as only a fool puts their cards in an empty basket company.
Isn't it common on the net for the foolish to claim they've "invested" in this or that videocard ? Yes, it is. Well, word up, a card company swimming in debt - not a wise "investment".
You saying it doesn't matter, makes you wrong, period. This is the world of capitalism and money talks and makes the drivers and cards walk, and claiming otherwise has zero cred.
Like so many other ati users, it's no longer a big secret, especially after so many in a row monthly update epic fails.Quote:
and complaining about their drivers (lol).
To deny it is to be a liar, period.
You're not objective, so who cares what your analysis is ? I've seen who you are on this board long ago. I know exactly where you come from. Let's not pretend otherwise.Quote:
From an objective standpoint nvidia has only managed to execute in top end (at the expense of going deaf) and the sweet spot recently,
Nvidia has a lot more in sales and base than your problems with their recent top end.
You talk about 10% and forget the other 90%. :rofl:
I think the hard lesson is NVIDIA's 2 million spent on Crysis 2, more than ATI's entire 1M last Q "profit" while they are "executing with wondrous success" according to you and on top of their game ! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:Quote:
while in the past generation they got taught a hard lesson in pricing by ATI.
Let me know when ATI has quadrupled it's yearly sales and is knocking on the same door NVidia's gigantic market knocks on in comparison.
I can see cuda and brook. Can you ?Quote:
x86 and DX11 hardware are very special duopolies. They're special because you have two companies that are producing hardware meant to run one class of software libraries. Can you connect the dots and see what will happen if one hardware manufacturer begins to polarize the software its product can run?
I see Badaboom, and I see ATI with their own Stream...
I see PhysX and I see ati epic Bullet P fail.
I see ATI having to BUY PHYSX, instead of you guys flailing around that Nvidia has done some terrible wrong.
If amdati cannot, or simply refuses, or waits too long, they may pay a terrible, terrible price.
If you people want to do something for the world and for your utopian vision, get on the horn, on the net, and on the phone, and get on the backs of some big investors and money players, get them lined up and convince them your lovely broken and in debt crashing card company is worthy of big investment, and either make an OPEN STANDARD yourselves, with your great investment decisions and wise how it should be dictats, or pony up the big bucks to NVidia
- but first - > talk really, really, really nice to them, and about them, and just maybe, just maybe you'll have enough of what it takes to do business like adults and not criminals, and get PhysX on your ati cards.
That's how it works fella. P E R I O D !:up:
Isn't it really just an epic failure for ati, isn't that really what we have here ? I mean not for lack of trying - they have tried - Bullet Physics is one sick dying puppy.
Now, of course, big time advanced Crysis 2 is also "not fair! and "too good!" and it's just like "Physx!" - Nvidia is ahead, and there's all the angry little ethical e-ceo's who scream how this or that has to be run by NVidia, instead of how they do it.
Great. :rofl:
Oh, of course, of course. Thanks for straightening me out. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
Wow, you are impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
You're right, I should go look at his posts and see what's he said in the past first, before making ridiculously childish assumptions.
I should cut my view down, contain the thing, bring it down a level Lincoln could picture, I mean, Lord knows that would go a long way to improving the view. :up:
Thanks.
lol this "new" guy cracks me up..
enjoy it while it lasts, no good things last foreverQuote:
Originally Posted by Rai
Tessellated textures? Ha. Who wants to place odds on him lasting a week?
With you four super friendly welcome mats (as your finger clicking cries to mods buzzes your modem in a flurried blitzkrieg of resends), my golly, a lifetime here is already set in stone. :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
Just remember, you 'all lost miserably in the discussion, time and again, in front of each other, and there's not a thing you can do about that. Sharpen that banstick, because you're gonna need it for your only victory. :up:
I hope it does use heavy tesselation. It's a technology that both Nvidia and AMD have access to (unlike Physx), so both have an equal playing field here. AMD should be looking into improving it's tesselation unit (which it probably is), to counter this threat. The initial tesselator in the AMD cards was pretty much a load of rubbish, but then again it didn't need to be much better than that as no games used it.
Now we're in a position that games are starting to use advanced graphically capabilities, soething other than a console port and we're arguing saying it's wrong. Honestly, sometimes fanboys get in the way of innovation.
The thread topic concerns Nvidia bribing Crytec to change the content/coding or advertising logo's of Crysis 2 that it favours Nvidia hardware. To me, no matter which way you look at it this kind of bribery stinks. I would say the same if ATI were doing the bribing.
Now with all due respect;Quote:
Originally Posted by SiliconDoc
You should perhaps go through your own posts and read them all very carefully before you accuse anybody of being a fanboy.
You have more or less responded to every post in this thread that has had anything positive to say regarding ATI, or negative to say regarding Nvidia with your own brand of dare I say it... fanboyism.
Yet you fail to respond to this post
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=135
I respectfully suggest chilling out a little. Your arguments do reek of fanaticism and you certainly don't owe Nvidia anything. Just like ATI they will never thank you for buying or verbally supporting their hardware, or get you unbanned from a forum.
Not at all. I hope you stick around for a long time - could use the laughs. I'm sure in your head you think you've won something by inciting a flamefest with that drivel you keep posting but hey it's your head. Have a blast!Quote:
Originally Posted by SiliconDoc
But thats enough nourishment from me today. I'll just wait patiently for an explanation of how tessellation improves texture quality. I'm sure it'll be forthcoming shortly.
Attacking a paragraph I put in as an afterthought doesn't refute your logic as being incredibly inane.Quote:
Originally Posted by SiliconDoc
Actually, I'm superman. Did we have a one night stand that left you burned? You should remind me ... I forget these things.Quote:
You're not objective, so who cares what your analysis is ? I've seen who you are on this board long ago. I know exactly where you come from. Let's not pretend otherwise.
Also, care to point out how bullet physics was a fail for ATI? Apparently they're affiliated now ... I never knew since the writer is employed by Sony. The main point I was trying to make was that ATI supports an open standard (following the lines of x86 and DX11) that does not require proprietary hardware.
A quote from you with relevance:
Have you ever compared this situation to console-exclusive releases? How, if you want to play a game that's exclusive for one console, you have to pony the cash up for it?Quote:
I merely explained the very simple freedom/ rights/western world/ everyone knows it by the time they are an adult, how it works, you do your thing you make it you own it you get paid, you buy you sell - the greatest thing man has yet achieved for a society...
Hey, if you want to buy ATI and Nvidia cards and swap em out, or mix and match them, feel free to spend your money. It's yours afterall, right? You're a member of society, it's your ultimate decision on where you want to flush your money.
Ah yes, more erroneous conclusions. I assumed you think nvidia controls a ton of the present marketshare, instead of merely having legacy share left over from the 7xxx and 8xxx series?Quote:
Let me know when ATI has quadrupled it's yearly sales and is knocking on the same door NVidia's gigantic market knocks on in comparison.
Wait ... how is any of the tinsel you posted relevant? The moment you're wrong, like other poor saps who came before you, you love to fall back on nvidia's supposed financial strength, huge marketshare, lots of proprietary cash cows, and let's not forget, 3D, CUDA, PhysX, and ....
Terrible drivers! I hope you had the humility to keep your mouth shut when nvidia's drivers were causing a majority of Vista crashes.
i just think that it is really good
all that nVidia does for PC Game Players
let's just be happy about that:)