The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

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02-02-2010, 10:16 AM
eric66

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

in 1-2 months from now... and their prices will drop a lot so their days wont be really numbered...

not only that who really believes that single 480 will pass 5970 ?
02-02-2010, 10:32 AM
SKYMTL

Quote:

Originally Posted by trinibwoy

Do these sources live in Neverland too? What exactly have you seen/read that leads you to that laughably incorrect conclusion?

I'll admit, even I had a laugh at that one.

Grouping all the fixed function stages isn't reactionary in any way, shape or form. It's what has to be done for efficient rendering in certain environments.
02-02-2010, 10:50 AM
Teemax

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Fine, if you want to talk about mobile Quadro parts, let's do just that.

You point towards the Quadro article at Fudzilla to be an indication of rebadged parts. They are not. I have used Quadro cards for most of my professional life from the current 2700M in a laptop all the way back to the NVS days.

The previous generation of DX10-capable mobile Quadro cards were the 370M, 770M, 1700M, 2700M and 3700M. The new cards are all x8xxM which makes total sense to me considering they now support higher memory bandwidth, OpenCL 3.2, have EnergyStar certification, use a new power management system....the list goes on.

How is that a rebrand again? They added updated tech but you expect them to keep the same names? Now THAT would cause confusion.

It's the same chip, they simply put in higher memory and update the software and call it a new generation.
You call that a new product?

BTW, you surely want to talk only about the Quadro parts, since at least they did something before renaming. The whole Gefore 3xx line right now is just a plain mindless rebranding. If you support this kind of creating a whole new "generation" from rebranding, do go on the record and say so.
02-02-2010, 11:04 AM
SKYMTL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teemax

It's the same chip, they simply put in higher memory and update the software and call it a new generation.
You call that a new product?

They aren't marketing it as a new product but rather an updated version of a product that has been around since 2008.... ;)

Quote:

The whole Gefore 3xx line right now is just a plain mindless rebranding. If you support this kind of creating a whole new "generation" from rebranding, do go on the record and say so.

If the issues trickle down into the discrete desktop series and they do so without including any additional features, then I will have an issue. OEM cards are different since most of the time any rebrands in this space are done at the betest of the large system integrators.

The mobile space has long had issues with rebranding from NVIDIA, ATI, Intel, AMD, etc. so I can't really pistol-whip NVIDIA for it since its been done countless other times by what seems like every manufacturer. Is it wrong? I can't really say but I don't like it any more than you do. It's just necessary to look at the whole picture instead of just focusing on what's happening right in front of you. :(
02-02-2010, 11:13 AM
NaMcO

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric66

not only that who really believes that single 480 will pass 5970 ?

It wouldn't be anything out of this world :shrug:
02-02-2010, 12:24 PM
ElSel10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedjo

renaming before product launch... nice :p

I must have missed this but when did Nvidia announce that Fermi would be the GTX300 series? :shrug:
02-02-2010, 12:36 PM
GoldenTiger

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric66

not only that who really believes that single 480 will pass 5970 ?

I think in the minimum FPS at 2560x1600 department, it will... and probably be a scrap faster in some tests on the averages.

I could be wrong, though, but I'll be disappointed if it can't come so close it may as well be the same :rofl: .
02-02-2010, 12:49 PM
Farinorco

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElSel10

I must have missed this but when did Nvidia announce that Fermi would be the GTX300 series? :shrug:

Indeed. I remember (but I might be wrong) them saying something about exactly the opposite, something like Fermi wasn't to be named GTX300 commercially. But I would have to be honest and say that I didn't think that such claim would mean that it was to be named GTX400...

Anyway, I don't think it is a great deal in this case. I didn't like very much when they named as 8000 series the first G92 cards (I think they should have been named as 9000 series) because it was somewhat a mess, I didn't like when they later named more G92 parts as 9000 series when some of them had been named as 8000 because it was a greater mess, and I didn't like when they named more G92 derivatives as GTS/GT200 series because it started to sound as a joke.

But in this case I just don't see any possibility of confussion given that no GT/S/X300 parts have been released to the desktop market (and the laptop market ones are not the same architecture than Fermi chips). It's a commercial name after all, it makes GT/S/X200 parts to seems older than they are or the new Fermi parts newer and more different in comparison, and that's all about it. Probably that's the reason why they have decided to do this if they finally go with GTX400 naming. To put some ground between the previous generation (which might have some kind of "failure" perception in public awareness) and the new cards. That's fine and it's what marketing is about, and a commercial name is nothing but marketing.

Maybe even they have decided to start using an scheme of "even generation number to new archs, and odd generation number to refreshes". I don't think so, but it could be... and it wouldn't have anything bad.
02-02-2010, 01:09 PM
trinibwoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElSel10

I must have missed this but when did Nvidia announce that Fermi would be the GTX300 series? :shrug:

They didn't. Just like they never announced anything called GT300 (see thread title :confused:). What I'd like to know is whether they went with 4xx to signify the extent of the architectural overhaul or if they genuinely are trying to clean up their mucked up naming scheme.
02-02-2010, 01:16 PM
Jamesrt2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by trinibwoy

They didn't. Just like they never announced anything called GT300 (see thread title :confused:). What I'd like to know is whether they went with 4xx to signify the extent of the architectural overhaul or if they genuinely are trying to clean up their mucked up naming scheme.

I have a feeling maybe its a lil bit of both?

they probably will kill of the renaming for a while now... complete new architechture to work with and as the mobile parts and aa couple renames are in the 300series... it makes sense for it to be gtx4** etc..
02-02-2010, 01:28 PM
eric66

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenTiger

I think in the minimum FPS at 2560x1600 department, it will... and probably be a scrap faster in some tests on the averages.

I could be wrong, though, but I'll be disappointed if it can't come so close it may as well be the same :rofl: .

of course it can in few games like in batman or few other nvidia sponsored games but in 70 to 80 percent of tests i believe (and nvidias behavior indicates that ) 5970 will be superior one so i don't see how we say bye bye to 5970
02-02-2010, 02:28 PM
GoldenTiger

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric66

of course it can in few games like in batman or few other nvidia sponsored games but in 70 to 80 percent of tests i believe (and nvidias behavior indicates that ) 5970 will be superior one so i don't see how we say bye bye to 5970

Heh I was being only half-serious, but I do think we might see the Fermi edging out the 5970 in these situations.
02-02-2010, 02:35 PM
Nedjo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElSel10

I must have missed this but when did Nvidia announce that Fermi would be the GTX300 series? :shrug:

you've also missed this: :p
02-02-2010, 03:57 PM
hennyo

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric66

of course it can in few games like in batman or few other nvidia sponsored games but in 70 to 80 percent of tests i believe (and nvidias behavior indicates that ) 5970 will be superior one so i don't see how we say bye bye to 5970

This is little short sighted here, as the 480 will be faster than the 5970 in certain very high resolution environments if only due to RAM shortages on the 5970 part that the 480 won't have. Now this isn't to say anything at all about how they will compare in other ways, but the circumstance stated to the person you were answering will probably pan out in Nvidias favor if only due to the RAM.
02-02-2010, 05:10 PM
NapalmV5

let me put into perspective for you nvidia doubters.. a very fast 256 fermi @ 850core/1700shader wouldve been enough to beat 5870 and a dual of that to handle 5970.. and that wouldve been out in retail last year.. thats what ati does.. always the easy way

nvidia never considered 2010 refreshes from ati ??
all theyve been concentrating on is just 5870/5970 ??

final specs/performance numbers are coming.. more importantly so is IQ bliss

:toast:
02-02-2010, 05:14 PM
trinibwoy

Why would they consider 2010 refreshes from ATi when they were hoping to be done by fall 09?
02-02-2010, 05:16 PM
GoldenTiger

Quote:

Originally Posted by NapalmV5

let me put into perspective for you nvidia doubters.. a very fast 256 fermi @ 850core/1700shader wouldve been enough to beat 5870 and a dual of that to handle 5970.. and that wouldve been out in retail last year.. thats what ati does.. always the easy way

nvidia never considered 2010 refreshes from ati ??
all theyve been concentrating on is just 5870/5970 ??

final specs/performance numbers are coming.. more importantly so is IQ bliss

:toast:

(sells 5870 now)
02-02-2010, 05:20 PM
jaredpace

GTX 480 will no doubt be fast, IMO ~90% of a 5970. Probably similar to 5870 Vs. GTX295
02-02-2010, 05:23 PM
InCredible

Quote:

Originally Posted by NapalmV5

let me put into perspective for you nvidia doubters.. a very fast 256 fermi @ 850core/1700shader wouldve been enough to beat 5870 and a dual of that to handle 5970.. and that wouldve been out in retail last year.. thats what ati does.. always the easy way

nvidia never considered 2010 refreshes from ati ??
all theyve been concentrating on is just 5870/5970 ??

final specs/performance numbers are coming.. more importantly so is IQ bliss

:toast:

i dont think ppl are really doubting the performance of fermi..
i mean it should be everything its hyped up to be..considering how large and power hungry its suppose to be along with the wait, which is the only thing i see people really doubting..when will it be available and at want price/quanity?..

by now i hope no one is surprised by the performance that fermi brings..this late in the race it BETTER be faster then 5870 at the very least if they want it to even compete at all.
02-02-2010, 05:28 PM
zerazax

Quote:

Originally Posted by NapalmV5

let me put into perspective for you nvidia doubters.. a very fast 256 fermi @ 850core/1700shader wouldve been enough to beat 5870 and a dual of that to handle 5970.. and that wouldve been out in retail last year.. thats what ati does.. always the easy way

That's nice, a "would've" here, could've there, should've there..

Fact is, this did not come out - period.

As for the rest of your info, seeing as how you've claimed in thread's past that you don't really know what's going on, but it's based on your conjecture, I won't be holding my breath. Whatever happened to the rules about people claiming things without being willing to back it up? It's gotten people in trouble before...
02-02-2010, 06:47 PM
spursindonesia

People seem talking out of their rear these days. :rolleyes:
02-02-2010, 07:00 PM
LordEC911

Quote:

Originally Posted by hennyo

This is little short sighted here, as the 480 will be faster than the 5970 in certain very high resolution environments if only due to RAM shortages on the 5970 part that the 480 won't have. Now this isn't to say anything at all about how they will compare in other ways, but the circumstance stated to the person you were answering will probably pan out in Nvidias favor if only due to the RAM.

Ummm... Nvidia's memory mismanagement is currently an unknown in regards to the GTX4x0. That statement causes nothing but a laugh right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NapalmV5

let me put into perspective for you nvidia doubters.. a very fast 256 fermi @ 850core/1700shader wouldve been enough to beat 5870 and a dual of that to handle 5970.. and that wouldve been out in retail last year.. thats what ati does.. always the easy way

nvidia never considered 2010 refreshes from ati ??
all theyve been concentrating on is just 5870/5970 ??

final specs/performance numbers are coming.. more importantly so is IQ bliss

:toast:

Really? With less than half the texturing power of a 5870?
65% of the Polymorph engine of GTX480?
I'm sorry... if GTX470 beats a stock 5870 by more than 20% I'll be impressed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaredpace

GTX 480 will no doubt be fast, IMO ~90% of a 5970. Probably similar to 5870 Vs. GTX295

We will see... I honestly doubt it.
02-02-2010, 07:38 PM
Decami

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teemax

It's the same chip, they simply put in higher memory and update the software and call it a new generation.
You call that a new product?

BTW, you surely want to talk only about the Quadro parts, since at least they did something before renaming. The whole Gefore 3xx line right now is just a plain mindless rebranding. If you support this kind of creating a whole new "generation" from rebranding, do go on the record and say so.

I condone the re-branding of products method, in business signed: Decami 2/2/2010

You and everyone else can complain all day about how much it "annoys" you, but the fact of the matter is, its an insanely profitable market strategy and used by more companies than you can possibly know, not just Nvidia, this is nothing new, at all.

whats it do? make money on the weakest links of the consumer, we fortunately are not those links, be happy that you aren't and move on. Nvidia rebrands, oh god, lets freak out every time they do, and every time every other company does. Not gonna change a thing. I figured people would be over this by now.

back to fermi talk....
02-02-2010, 08:37 PM
HelixPC

Im ready for this. Bring it on. Hopefully its a good card with low heat output.
02-02-2010, 08:54 PM
SKYMTL

Pictures of the production Tesla card with 448 SPs show a single 8-pin which bodes well for power consumption IMO.

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