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All this speculation, we need someone with information to clarify.
I would normally wait for Benchzowner to chime and enlighten us with some insight on the subject matter, but unfortunately he doesn't do that anymore after some haters showed up.
Any how, Fermi better deliver, after seeing the 5970 benchmarks and the price, Nvidia better have something to bite back with all their barking.
Yeah, some fact would be nice. He should share the insight.Quote:
Originally Posted by turbox997
Nobody should taking these "haters" seriously. Some are probably on ATI's pay-role and doing their jobs, and the rest are some innocent kids getting high on 5xxxx and having fun while they can.
amusing how a picture like this can create so much hype :D
if i would have know this i might have faked a fermi setup and "leaked" a picture of this myself :lol:
somebody should make the pic a bit blurry and add "i want to believe" to it :D
This thread is funny as hell.
FYI, my friend is a committee chair for SC and I have asked her to go take pictures, get info,etc from the nvidia booth. I will let you all know what she sends me.
Good, tell her, we need to see 3D-scores and FPS of running games, nothing else (even if it is not fake) would be good enough to justify this outrages delay.Quote:
Originally Posted by clo007
Outrageous delay? Did Nvidia owe us something?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
lol its an Outrageous delay for vga freaks it should not b for gamers
Why not? I want a new highend card and without competition these prices are ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by cowie
Yes, they owe to all of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by xVeinx
This outrageous delay is hearting everybody. Those of us who have used and like Nvidia, has to wait and wait until .... who knows how long.
This may sounds strange to you, but they owe big time to ATI-buyers, too. All ATI GPUs are selling at higher price right now. 5790 was announced & promised at $499, but is out at $599 and those few who have been available were selling for up to $620 last days. All because of this outrageous delay, ATI got no competition to worry about, and keeps the supply just under the marked demand to sell them over prised.
You bet Nvidia owes to all of us rapid consumers of GPU.
lol at hearting, instead of hurtingQuote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
LOL, hehehe, hurting is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
Not easy to keep track on everything on a foreign language. :eek:
Right. Makes perfect sense once again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
The shortage is purely intentional. :ROTF:
Thanks for insight on the technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by Florinmocanu
I wonder if that explains the spikes too. That just seems a lot to hope for. At least the blockwork is regular enough that I can imagine this technique working.
well, the spikes are displacement too as well.
I attached an example of a displacement map.
And a little example about tesselation and displacement.
I did a quick and dirty test, 20 minutes max, in 3dsmax just to show you what the tesselation in DX11 is really all about, which is not smoothing.
You got yourself your basic 3d flat plane, a diffuse texture (representing the color information of the wall) and a displacement map.
The tesselators in DX11 cards increase the poly count of the plane a lot, an awfull lot and then use that black and white map to displace the wall, creating a much more realistic look.
Of course, my test is just a fast Photoshop and 3dsmax doodle, 10 minutes for map creation and 10 more for scene and rendering. If i would have 1-2 hours to do the displacement map, the result would be really realistic, you would never guess it's just a flat plane.
So, that's how tesselation works in DX 11, it doesn't just smooth already existing models, it is also used to enhance and create new geometry.
I call shenanigans! Its not even a real photo! Totally rendered! RAHHHH!
~runs around in circles with a saucepan on his head~
Quick hide in here!
*opens door to tinfoil and bed sheet fortress*
Only if you got red duct tape over the windows. :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by fiveprime
sweet, thx for that Florinmocanu! :toast:
very interesting...
didn't the original tesselator in ati cards have an option to upscale polygones though?
it used some smart algorythm to detect rough shapes and would split one triangle into 2 or several triangles creating a smoother shape?
sort of like anti aliasing but done in 3d?
so dx11 tesselation doesn't do that at all?
you need to actually provide the information for the high polygon models and the added detail is skipped for normal rendering and used with tesselation enabled?
back with the original tesselation the point was obvious:
1) improve the image quality of older games that have a huge fps headroom
2) offer notably better image quality than competitors cards that render the same scene
but i recently though about tesselation again and realized that, if it would have kicked off back when ati originally introduced it, it could have prevented the giant gap between console and pc performance to cause problems with games. games could be programmed for consoles, and crippled to run well on the rather old hardware they use, but look very nice on pc's thanks to tesselation, automatically adding additional detail...
Don't think of the previous incarnation of TruForm as tessellation. Think of it as geometry smoothing - i.e adding polys to curved objects to make them smoother, like tires, elbows etc. That's obviously a very limited application as most objects aren't perfectly smooth. For instance you could never use TruForm to create the dragon's spikes in the Unigine demo.
saaya, the 3d anti aliasing you are talking about is just a basic smooth, you have a rough object and then you tesselate it making it smoother looking, without rough sides. That is what the truform engine was all about, smoothing low poly objects to make them look better.
In DX 11, you get displacement as a bonus, seen in the dragon spikes and wall bricks.
Displacement can only be done if you have really high poly count, so that's why we never saw it before DX 11, you just didn't have the ability to do it because besides Ati's tesselators, you didn't have the means to implement such a feature.
what i don't understand is why nobody talks about displacement, since in normal 3d software smoothing/tesselation is one thing and displacement another thing, they are two distinct features.
Agreed. It's hilarious when certain members call nVidia's delay "Outrageous", but at the same time this "Outrageous delay" is not due to EITHER company. The delay of Fermi AND the fact that it's almost impossible to get an HD5870 even though they "released" it two months ago.... AND.... they just released ANOTHER card, the HD5970.... which of course won't be available.Quote:
Originally Posted by xVeinx
I highly doubt you'll see any of these top end cards from ATi being widely available until the .40nm process at TSMC is greatly improved.
Oh... and by that time, Fermi will also be hitting store shelves in quantity.
I guess that's the downside of doing a "product release" with hardly any product available then and in the future fiscal quarter. The huge rush to beat nVidia to the markets by having the top card was completely wasted IMO.
Yea, and all the money they have made so far because the cards are selling like hotcakes is completely wasted too? :confused: ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew LB
QFT!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim
not to mention the fact that 5700 series is selling like hotcakes to, and it's widely available! And yeah, AMD is making money on them to! :)
By the time Fermi is out, AMD will have a top to bottom DX11 lineup, and will be introducing DX11 mobile parts. Nvidia will be competing with AMD using old generation parts except for the very top end. And that is best case scenario assuming Fermi will be out in the next 2-3 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew LB
And you completely ignore the fact that regardless of supply constraints at TSMC, AMD is already working on their product refreshes, not to mention their next generation architecture. Your attempt to spin the TSMC problems as leveling the playing field for Nvidia and saving them is way, way off base. (not that anyone is surprised)
edit - it's not 0.40nm btw