AMD X2 6500+ coming

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09-21-2008, 06:51 AM
ownage

Screw x48. even X38 is still fine and has no problem competing against an AMD rig. X38 boards are cheap nowadays.
AMD is simply not cheaper then Intel price/performance wise.

I see no reason to buy this 6500+. Wait for Deneb or Nehalem. Don't waste your money on older hardware like C2D or Phenom. Both have been around for a long time now.
09-21-2008, 07:01 AM
Macadamia

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

Haha, it's always the same. Some guys think NewEgg and the US are the only place where mobos, CPUs and such are sold. Bizzaro world... :ROTF:

I live in Malaysia. The difference is even bigger (1.5-2X pricing). Wanna compare? :rolleyes:

Gone my arse.

Plus AMD boards were cheap, but they ALWAYS had expensive models too. DFI LanParty etc, all taking up the highend NF3/4 market. Now you have cheap and expensive models (more brands going upclass) but the cheap models still exist. There's no cheap X38/X48/P45 cop-out. Hornet's fallacy hardly applies.
09-21-2008, 07:07 AM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macadamia

Whatever you're smoking, I'd like it. Delusional...

Remove that ASRock even your mom wouldn't buy (probably won't OC too), and X48 is baseline 150 Euro.

The only 2 boards exceeding 150 Euro are niche 790FX designs with 3x PCIe. 790GXes are all cheaper than X48s.

But don't worry, it's already concluded that Spintel enthusiasts will even be willingly raped for the next generation of motherboards- X58- that ironically has even less crucial silicon than ever, and yet going to be even more expensive, especially after the SLI tax.

im not the one thats complaining about price, tbh i never cared how much I pay for my hardware. I buy that what im looking for, else I wouldn't have bought a QX9650 + X38 ddr3 board with ddr3 modules for 550$ back in 2007. :yepp:
Also i think the new nehalem rig im going to build will cost me approx 2k€ (for cpu, mobo and ram alone).

Plus if you remove the ASRock you could also remove the Biostar from the AMD board selection, which leave the cheapest dual/tri slot 16x pcie board at 110€. (Gigabyte, since ASrock is a nogo for you and biostar for me).

If you look back how much a top of the line AM2 board back in 2006 was (~160€ ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe) and now a top of the line AM2+ board (250€ Foxcon Destroyer) its quite a difference. :yepp:

But that also goes for not so highend boards, back in 2006 you could find good AM2 boards for 70€ now you have to pay 40€ more.
09-21-2008, 07:11 AM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macadamia

I live in Malaysia. The difference is even bigger (1.5-2X pricing). Wanna compare? :rolleyes:

Gone my arse.

Plus AMD boards were cheap, but they ALWAYS had expensive models too. DFI LanParty etc, all taking up the highend NF3/4 market. Now you have cheap and expensive models (more brands going upclass) but the cheap models still exist. There's no cheap X38/X48/P45 cop-out. Hornet's fallacy hardly applies.

what, no cheap p45 boards?

Where do you live... if we start factoring in P45 boards the SB750 boards look even more expensive. -> MSI P45 Neo3-FR for sub 90€ and the plain vanilla MSI P45 Neo-F for sub 80€....

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownage

Screw x48. even X38 is still fine and has no problem competing against an AMD rig. X38 boards are cheap nowadays.
AMD is simply not cheaper then Intel price/performance wise.

I see no reason to buy this 6500+. Wait for Deneb or Nehalem. Don't waste your money on older hardware like C2D or Phenom. Both have been around for a long time now.

qfe :up:
09-21-2008, 07:31 AM
gOJDO

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlanK3r

http://www.expreview.com/img/review/kuma/score.png

Many of us were expecting such advantages in performance, the 6500+ BE has the same IPC like Phenom X4/X3.
The 3.3GHz wprime stable OC is very promising. If the 6500+ BE is priced properly I will buy one for sure. It'd be my first K10. :)

@To the guys from expreview:
Thank you very much for the benchmarks, but can you please repeat the same benchmarks on the same system with an Athlon64 6400+. The product number "6500+" already have misled some people to think it will be faster than the 6400+. It'll fool far more people when it hit the shelves. So a hard proof would be nice to inform people who consider to buy it.
09-21-2008, 07:45 AM
CCC

does k8 have 2meg level3 cache?

I know k8 has 4x512 same as this 2x512 level2 '1x512 per core', but maybe like with core2 arch the cache is the bonus with this new cpu?
09-21-2008, 07:57 AM
inCore

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

Haha, it's always the same. Some guys think NewEgg and the US are the only place where mobos, CPUs and such are sold. Bizzaro world... :ROTF:

Dude, while the majority of 790FX are cheaper, that doesn't change the fact that AMD boards are no longer much cheaper than Intel's like they were before. As Hornet says, the days of cheap high-end AMD motherboards are gone.

It's true, even every single PC component recommendation on this site is automatically linked to Newegg, regardless if the person asking is located in Botswana or Norway.

And I also completely agree to the second point.
09-21-2008, 07:58 AM
gOJDO

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCC

does k8 have 2meg level3 cache?

I know k8 has 4x512 same as this 2x512 level2 '1x512 per core',

If you mean K10, then:
1) Yes, the K10 CPUs up to date have 2MB of L3 cache.
2) Yes, K10 has 4x512kB of L2, 512kB of L2 per core.

Quote:

but maybe like with core2 arch the cache is the bonus with this new cpu?

Larger caches are always welcomed, but to them applies the law of diminishing benefit. How a CPU will benefit from a given cache capacity depends of the CPU architecture, the CPU (and cache) clock, the software(OS and apps), the cache size, etc.
09-21-2008, 08:40 AM
ownage

I was just thinking. They should have released a dualcore phenom based cpu series from the beginning instead of only releasing sucky quadcores.
They could have compete much better with dualcore phenome against C2D then old tech K8 based cpu's.
I can't believe it is hard to make dualcore phenoms. Should be easy for them.
09-21-2008, 09:05 AM
Epsilon84

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownage

I was just thinking. They should have released a dualcore phenom based cpu series from the beginning instead of only releasing sucky quadcores.
They could have compete much better with dualcore phenome against C2D then old tech K8 based cpu's.
I can't believe it is hard to make dualcore phenoms. Should be easy for them.

So you think duals based on the 'sucky' quads don't suck? :confused:

Seriously, even if Kuma was launched concurrently with Agena, it wouldn't have made a lot of difference to AMD in terms of competitiveness in the dual core market, especially at the modest 2.3GHz clockspeed. We already had 3GHz+ Wolfdales by then...
09-21-2008, 10:02 AM
Karolis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epsilon84

So you think duals based on the 'sucky' quads don't suck? :confused:

Seriously, even if Kuma was launched concurrently with Agena, it wouldn't have made a lot of difference to AMD in terms of competitiveness in the dual core market, especially at the modest 2.3GHz clockspeed. We already had 3GHz+ Wolfdales by then...

Weren't Wolfdales only released in early 2008 while Phenoms were released in 2007 November?
09-21-2008, 10:11 AM
Donnie27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karolis

Weren't Wolfdales only released in early 2008 while Phenoms were released in 2007 November?

Sure but it's not like Conroe is chopped liver.
09-21-2008, 10:28 AM
Karolis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie27

Sure but it's not like Conroe is chopped liver.

Chopped liver? :eh: :sick: All I was saying is that when Phenoms were released, Wolfdales weren't on shelves yet. :)
09-21-2008, 10:44 AM
justthefax

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownage

I was just thinking. They should have released a dualcore phenom based cpu series from the beginning instead of only releasing sucky quadcores.
They could have compete much better with dualcore phenome against C2D then old tech K8 based cpu's.
I can't believe it is hard to make dualcore phenoms. Should be easy for them.

This was AMD's fatal miscalculation. They never even bothered to design a dual-core next-gen architecture, they went straight to quads when the mainstream market didn't need 4 cores (still doesn't). So Brisbane has hung around for 2 years too long, and counting. Yet another disadvantage in the desktop space for the monolithic quad design. K10 is a server design through and through and AMD doesn't have the $$ to develop a separate desktop-optimized design which concentrates on high-clocked dual cores.
09-21-2008, 12:20 PM
Rammsteiner

Regarding the prices on mobo for X48 vs SB750, it made me lol tbfh.

Also how can someone compare ASRock and Biostar? Biostar is a whole lot better than ASRock. And the most expensive SB750 board is from Foxconn. And those are way overpriced and not worth it, probably because they had the 'release right' or however you name it. Also the RD790/RS780D are high-end chipsets and available for anyone, from mainstream (maybe value?) to highend for not too much. You pay a little bit more for SB750, but that's marginal but worth it a lot.

I do agree AMD should have released K10 X2's earlier, a lot earlier. The reason why they release them now... I think they're moving things strategy wise. Deneb X4's will be released with higher clocks, X3's might as well where X2's (either Agena or Deneb) will be replacing X3's.
09-21-2008, 01:36 PM
STaRGaZeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macadamia

I live in Malaysia. The difference is even bigger (1.5-2X pricing). Wanna compare? :rolleyes:

Like if it matters where you live. If your local providers are charging you load of money for them that means nothing for the rest of the world. Blame your country/shops/whatever, not the manufacturer as those prices are not even close to what the chipset itself cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macadamia

Gone my arse.

Plus AMD boards were cheap, but they ALWAYS had expensive models too. DFI LanParty etc, all taking up the highend NF3/4 market. Now you have cheap and expensive models (more brands going upclass) but the cheap models still exist. There's no cheap X38/X48/P45 cop-out. Hornet's fallacy hardly applies.

In all that paragraph of yours change AMD with Intel and voilá! They're the same.

No cheap P45? 100€ or less is not cheap for a kickass P45 mobo where you live? :shrug:

Point is, stop saying AMD mobos are cheaper because there are very good mobos in both sides for a very reduced price. Yes both means Intel and AMD. No I'm not smoking anything. It's just the real thing, believe it or not.
09-21-2008, 04:10 PM
AliG

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

No I'm not smoking anything.

damn guess I have to find someone else to share with me:rotf:

honestly guys, calm down this thread is about the cpu's performance, if anything flame amd for tricking the average customer into thinking it offers better performance than the x2 6400, don't bother messing with people over the cost of motherboards
09-21-2008, 04:10 PM
Frodin

If you want to OC Phenom quads beyond 3GHz you pretty much have to get a board with very solid PWMs, and those board are priced very similarly to X38/48 here at least. So I'd say the motherboard cost is pretty much even across the two platforms. Glad to see the Phenom based chips overclocking pretty good, 3,2- 3,3 GHz pretty regularly on the quads, I'm quite optimistic about Deneb. I'd love to play with a 6500+ in the meantime.
09-21-2008, 04:39 PM
ghost101

In the UK the x48 is roughly 60%+ more expensive.

For example,

http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=787778 for 790fx

http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=831175 for x48
09-21-2008, 06:11 PM
GAR

As of this point, buying an AMD cpu/motherboard does not make sense, it simply doesnt offer anything better than intel, simply nothing. No reason to buy AMD till they get their act together and come out with a good performing modern cpu. Old tech is not cutting it anymore, and K10 is simply an update of K8, nothing new really, K8 was 2002/2003 technology.
09-21-2008, 07:13 PM
ryboto

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAR

As of this point, buying an AMD cpu/motherboard does not make sense, it simply doesnt offer anything better than intel, simply nothing. No reason to buy AMD till they get their act together and come out with a good performing modern cpu. Old tech is not cutting it anymore, and K10 is simply an update of K8, nothing new really, K8 was 2002/2003 technology.

This kind of argument just doesn't work. They have price competitive products right now, their boards are great for low-power HTPCs/file servers. If K10 is "old" then what do you call the Pentium 3-based Core 2? It's all old, AMD just didn't out-engineer Intel. You and all the others asking for AMD to just come out with a new arch are ridiculous. They don't have the money to rush development into new projects, and besides, you don't just engineer a new arch overnight. Their chips sell in OEM systems, and they still have a place in the market.
09-21-2008, 07:22 PM
Donnie27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karolis

Chopped liver? :eh: :sick: All I was saying is that when Phenoms were released, Wolfdales weren't on shelves yet. :)

Of course they weren't. Yet, it's not like Intel desparately needed something better than Conroe even if there were Kumas on the market. Conroes did the job well enough.
09-21-2008, 07:38 PM
Donnie27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryboto

This kind of argument just doesn't work. They have price competitive products right now, their boards are great for low-power HTPCs/file servers. If K10 is "old" then what do you call the Pentium 3-based Core 2? It's all old, AMD just didn't out-engineer Intel. You and all the others asking for AMD to just come out with a new arch are ridiculous. They don't have the money to rush development into new projects, and besides, you don't just engineer a new arch overnight. Their chips sell in OEM systems, and they still have a place in the market.

QFT!

Yes, like if Core 2 equals P3, wouldn't that make K10 = K5? There are some great sub $80 Sc-775 P35, P38, P43 and P45. Others less than $120.
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles...?cid=6&id=2288
Actual Cost was $77 shipped since I bought it during the rebate period.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...tCode=10008667
I got it at Newegg for $87.99 shipped.

Two of my Bud's like this one!
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...tCode=10008670

So enough with the Cheap Boards excuses, they'll have to find something else.

Edits [I] so there's no doubt this is to show I agree, NOT disagree!
09-21-2008, 08:53 PM
Epsilon84

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karolis

Weren't Wolfdales only released in early 2008 while Phenoms were released in 2007 November?

I got my dates mixed up, you are indeed correct, Phenom was released a couple of months earlier than Wolfdale.

Still, my point stands that at only 2.3GHz it wouldn't have made a lot of difference for AMD considering they had the 6400+ which would have been faster.
09-21-2008, 10:39 PM
saveus222

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macadamia

Whatever you're smoking, I'd like it. Delusional...

Remove that ASRock even your mom wouldn't buy (probably won't OC too), and X48 is baseline 150 Euro.

The only 2 boards exceeding 150 Euro are niche 790FX designs with 3x PCIe. 790GXes are all cheaper than X48s.

But don't worry, it's already concluded that Spintel enthusiasts will even be willingly raped for the next generation of motherboards- X58- that ironically has even less crucial silicon than ever, and yet going to be even more expensive, especially after the SLI tax.

Macadamia... have you used an ASRock board ever... My Venice 3000+ used to overclock to 2.5 Ghz on air with a coupla sticks of Corsair 512 MB Value Select...

oh the board was a 939 DUal Sata with an upgrade path to AM2 and wats more it had AGP plus PCIe and both worked flawlessly :) so before u start busting a mobo, think..

oh and when this whole price/performance comes into the pic.. theres one cool video i Just HAVE to post :D ehehee..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq_XG411Lik

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