Alex, it's pretty hard to break a radiator/waterblock with water pressure. I can safely run a 23m/90lpm 1/2hp pump into a car radiator and a Storm waterblock with no ill effects.
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Alex, it's pretty hard to break a radiator/waterblock with water pressure. I can safely run a 23m/90lpm 1/2hp pump into a car radiator and a Storm waterblock with no ill effects.
My concern is not with the pressure and the radiator. I simply cannot find the way to connect a 1" tube and a 1/2" tube if I choose to keep 1" tubing everywhere except for the very last cm leading into into the case and the waterblock. Not even sure if this is even the correct way to proceed.
GrimReaperGuy...with such a strong pump what temps do you get?
Don't worry about the tubing, really. I'd just have 1/2" going from your waterblock outlet to your reservoir (if you need/want one), and 1/2" from the radiator outlet to your waterblock inlet, it'll save you a lot of time and grief compared to fiddling around with series of adaptors.
The only thing you need to worry about in regards to the water pressure is make sure you use worm clamps. An un-clamped line will eventually worm its way free, and then you'll have a neat little water fountain at your pump outlet.
Regular Tygon will likely collapse on you at the pump inlet; you might need to find some reinforced tubing.
I see about ~5-10 degrees above ambient on my E6600, depending on conditions; idle to load is ~4-5 degrees. Those figures are with the pump at 1/4hp; temperatures are some ~5 degrees higher at 1/2hp.
the problem is that my audi tt radiator has inlets and outlets which are wider than 1" even though 1" will fit. I see no other way around it.
anyway...how do you vary pump power? I tried with a dimmer but it is useless that is why I am buildinf a soundproof container for the pump.
Well, if your pump and the radiator need pipes of different size, then yes, I suppose you'll have to break out the adapters.
I control pump power with a potentiometer in the form of an old household heater connected in parallel with the pump, through a re-wired power strip. It's all very cheap and extremely ghetto; with any luck I'll get to rebuild the damned thing in a couple of months.
http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/sign0101.gif
Ok, I'm getting in on this deal:
I just bought this:
80-85 SKYLARK, CITATION w/ HDC NEW RADIATOR--3 rows, copper/brass--$88.50 shipped
Lots of Copper/Brass radiators at Great prices--some damaged, some not--check the description:
ltiparts
And 2 of these:
PROCOMP 14 INCH ELECTRIC COOLING FAN 14" CURVED BLADE
They have 10, 12, 14 and 16" fans--cheapest prices I could find shipped--$55.80 shipped for 2. 2150cfm @ 12v and 12 amps. I'll worry about the amps, draw, undervolting later.....:up:
I've been looking for a project. I was ready to do the copper pipe in the crawlspace and tossing around different things. I bought a mag drive 9.5 (950gph, 14' head, $60 shipped) and I have a 55gal. blue barrel. I started the plumbing yesterday. Just picked up another MB and so now I'll have 3 PCs to crunch and I'll continue my everyday stuff on one of those as I do now.
Plumbing is going to the outside. From the PCs to the blue barrel to the car rad and then back again to the manifold. The car rad is either going into 1 of 2 crawlspaces or an out-building that's shaded all day (probably the out-building.) I have a Swifty 120.2 and 2 '77 Bonneville heater cores to incorporate--if needed in any way. However, I will just do a manifold that feeds to and from each PC. Each PC will receive it own feed, so life should be good!
Yes, I'm excited.
Let's...http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/sign0041.gif
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</Hijack>
Sweet setup, Alex. Looking forward to watching this thread......:yepp:
great find naja......I want to share with you my latest creation.
At night I can just hear someone asking: "What are you building stark?" :D
1" , metal spiral, high pressure, industrial tubing..
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1130/img1840rd5.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1...b04140d362.jpg
smaller tubing is 12mmx17mm...fittings are steel indstrial fittings made watertight by grease and teflon
whatdoyouthink? :D will it survive the pressure?
one last addition....just to give you an idea of how thick that tubing is (yet it bends allright)
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/1...9876ay7.th.jpg
You might want to push that 1" further down on the adaptor. That tubing looks great though! :up:
Hi Alex,
The bulk of my setup will be 1" pvc pipe, but I plan on using this stuff--initially:
General Purpose Air and Water Hose
I already have 1/4", 1/2" and 1" collecting dust, so I am going to incorporate the 1" into the system. It can handle the pressure, its aquarium safe (so it shouldn't affect the PC components) and is great for low temps. My only question is: What about high temps!.....??? We'll see. I'll probably contact USPlastics and find out the specs on it.
Anyway, I may or may not be able to use that tubing to connect to the inlet (1-5/16") on the rad. If not, no big deal--I'll just find some 1-1/4" tubing and do the "heat treatment" if necessary. My bigger problem is the rad outlet (1-9/16"), but I'll find the tubing that I need--one way or the other. It'll happen! :up:
Nice adapter! Don't think I am going to need it, but what/where did you find it?
Anyway, the rad is shipping today. I'm trying to get a purchase list of plumbing parts together and intend to head to the store today or tomorrow. I'll let you know what I come up with.....:yepp:
Have you connected to your rad yet, or are you still working that out....? :shrug:
Naja002. Your project sounds very interesting. The only reason why I wouldn't have chosen the radiator you picked is connecting tubing. My radiator has slighty larger than 1" inlet and outlet. 1" tubing will fit if heat treated.
You are bound tu use a reducer somwhere along the line. How are you going to connect 1" tubing to your waterblocks?
I used a 3/4 male to femal connector screwed to a 3/4x1/2 nipple fitting. Teflon and grease and it will hold. Hope so really...
Hi Alex,
I'll start a thread after I get some pix of everything, etc. I hit Lowes yesterday and they had everything that I needed. Forgot to get some gate valves (2), but I'll pick them up this wkend. :up:
I picked up 1' of 1-1/2"ID Braided tubing. I'll cut the length to fit, but the heat treatment will get it over the 1-9/16" outlet. I also picked up 1' of 1-1/4"ID tubing that will fit the 1-5/16" inlet. Those tubes both connect to the appropiate barbed adapters (1-1/2", 1-1/4") which thread (both MPT) into 1" pvc pipe (both FPT). The pvc is reduced to 1" at the adapters. Amazingly, Lowes had everything that I needed. :woot:
My only real question at this point is my pump--Mag Drive 9.5. I'm not sure if its strong enough, but the calculator that I used says it will be--except I cannot factor in the rad itself. I bought that particular rad because its copper/brass, triple core (3 rows) and cheap. <---pretty much in that order. It should offer some decent flow for a radiator.
This is being setup to cool up to 6 PCs. The 1" pvc pipe will run from the rad, pump, 55gal reservoir in the out-building (only a few feet away) into this room (via the floor) to a pvc manifold that will distribute the water to and from each PC. Water takes the path of least resistance, so the gate valves are going to be incorporated in order to tweak (restrict) the flow from 1 PC or another so that all PCs get adequate flow. Make sense?
The manifold is 1" pvc pipe and the tubing to and from each PC will be 1/2"ID tubing.
The rad should be here Tues (5/27). Between now and then--I have some work to do and some pix to take.......:up:
I'll start a thread when I get some pix taken, etc. Kinda feel like I'm hijacking your thread here. Please let me know if you are feeling the same way at all.
I'm glad you got connected to the rad. That and the pump are probably the hardest part. That is one sexy rad you got there. Looks like it was made for the indoors......:yepp:
Now I just have to figure out how I'm going to buy ~60gal of distilled water without raising a bunch of eyebrows......:rofl:
Don't worry! I am actually very happy someone is gaining some benefit from my experience. I would be actually very pleased if we could keep a sort of "shared thread". Any relevant post from the guys here could help us all. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Naja002
I actually noticed that your pump is somewhat small considering amount of liquid and pressure loss due to several "characteristics" (length of tubing, ID of the tubing) of your system.
From what I noticed your radiator is pretty standard and should not be excessively restrictive. Also, if you consider that most pc radiators actually implement flat tubing as opposed to the car radiator type "round" tubing then leaving size aside, it should work well in terms of flow. I am sure your calculations are correct however I personally always try to err on the side of caution. It would be a pity if you got this amazing system working to find out, after some time, that you might want/need a bigger pump. Ebay might help you here... :)
keep us posted. As I said I am studying had thus have very limited time. My project will take time to set up and be properly tuned. You are welcome to "hijack" my thread.
Ok, taking a break, so here's an update on my end. Plumbing is completed in and out of the blue barrel. Its also completed through the floors of each building and connected. The pump arrived in the mail today (:woot:), so I'm going to get the plumbing done on that--today! :up: The only things I'm missing is the rad and the gate valves, so I should be able to complete +90% of the main plumbing. Before I am finished with the main plumbing, I need to figure out how I am going to test/flush/maintain this system. I'll get it sorted out though....no sweat. :up:
Cool. :up: I'll start my own thread and link from here to there and there to here. I think that the more threads available on this car rad subject--the easier it will be for other interested folks to find the info! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexontherocks
Flow loss isn't as great as people generally think. Some of the "Reefers" (saltwater aquarium folks aka "reef" keepers) are just as hardcore about what they do as many of the folks here at XS. <--have no doubt about that! :yepp: I just used this Head Loss Calculator to get a rough idea. Minus the radiator, but with extra elbows, etc thrown into the equation. Here's an example:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexontherocks
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...nShot012-1.jpg
I am expecting to use ~35' of 1" pipe and about 5' of 1" tubing. So, the 40' is fair, except its not factoring in the 4x 1" barbs (1" barb x MPT)--they will definitely offer some restriction. I entered 25 90-elbows, but only expect to use 13. I entered 10' of vertical head, but it will not be over 6.5' max. And just as important--I entered it all on 3/4" pipe--I'm using 1". I still come up with 190gph flow and 1.21psi (rated is 6.5psi). I think it'll work, but there's only one way to find out! :yepp: I picked it up for $60 shipped, so I should be able to sell it for that, if need be.....:up:
I keep debating on whether to use 1/2" or 3/8" tubing from the manifold to the PCs. I still need to buy the tubing, so I can go either route. I'll definitely be going the 1/8" wall route (1/2"ID x 3/4" OD or 3/8"ID x 5/8"OD). I've already got the barbs for the 1/2" and wondering if the 3/8" would create too much restriction. Either way, I think the 1" manifold will feed things well enough.....:up: I have some tubing and barbs of both, so I guess I'll just have to check things out before I decide.
In reference to the head loss calculator: I doubt its 100% spot-on 100% of the time. If any of the fluid dynamics engineers would like to check out its accuracy--I've little doubt that the XS community would be appreciative! But from what I understand--its a very good tool for the planning stage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexontherocks
Again, I think the pump is going to work, but I was over-joyed to find a copper triple core raditor! :shocked: The 3 rows not only offer good cooling--but better flow also. I'll have to take a look when it gets here, but I think it'll work work whether the tubing is round or flat. We'll see....:up:
Thanx for Your Support. Wkends are my busy time, so things are working out pretty good actually. I have fairly convenient access to 3 walmarts and Lowes, so I guess I'll hit the WMs this wkend and start picking up 2-3 cases of gal. jugs of distilled water from each!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexontherocks
:up:
super soaker?Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptCrunch
Or water fight. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptCrunch
Hi Kapt Crunch,
I understand what You are saying, but those examples usually assume a better water supply--meaning "household". Household (and industrial/commercial) water supplies normally have much higher pressure (normally ~40psi). The problem here is that my psi source is a small pump (rated 6.5psi). I'm not sure how well my little pump would hold up against the garden hose test....:shrug:
But I do understand Your point--and Thank You for tossing it in here! :up: I am no fluid dynamics engineer, so my skills/knowledge/understanding are limited. Just using the surface area of a circle--the 1" pipe should be able to pump more than either 3x the 1/2" or 3/8". But 4x the 1/2" works out just right......1" circle=0.785.....4x 1/2" circles=0.785
Reasonable entries into the head loss calculator offer a 2.44psi and flow of 464gph/60min=7.73gpm/3PCs= 2.57gpm per PC.
IF I could maintain that 2.44psi then I realize that the water would just travel faster through the 3/8" tubing. So, my real question would be--under these circumstances--should I expect a reduction in psi/gpm by going with the 3/8" tubing v the 1/2"? Honestly, I really don't know. I would appreciate feedback from anyone that understands this particular point....:up:
I did seal the 55gal. blue barrel, so in theory this is a closed loop. Also, the pump is drawing water--out--of the barrel....not pushing it into the barrel. So, pressure in the barrel should be negative, not positive. Further helping the seal. :up:
Any Thoughts.....?
unfortunately that sort of solution is necessary. I have adapted a 1" tubing to a 1/2" (12x17) in order to feed my waterblock. Am I in for a surprise as soon as I get my wb hooked up to the tubing?Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptCrunch
Unfortunately there is very little one can do if there is a car radiator envolved. I believe very few actually have 1/2" inlets and outlets. Most have 1" or larger OD so unless I can find a wb supporting 1" tubing then I see no other solution than to reduce tubing somewhere along the line. 3/4 x 3/8 is actually the type of reducer I built (the only feasible solution). However the tubing will be 1"x1/2". TEFLON tape and hoseclamps + silicon are necessary.
The bigger tubing is good, although the roughness added by the metal spring will add a little friction. I'd probably just run the larger tubing until you made it to the exterior of your computer case, then reduce it down to something that's convenient to run in your computer.
Friction losses are given probably more attention than they deserve in tubing and fitting (although some fittings are pretty bad), as long as you keep that stuff to a minimum it's usually insignificant.
As long as you have a strong enoug pump to overcome filling the system (for example you don't want to run a pond pump with 4 feet of head and expect to fill a system with 6' of height difference) you should be fine. Once the loop is full that static pressure that it has to overcome is removed by the water coming back down the other side.
Anyhow, my 2c.
my idea exactly. One small edit: the spring is embedded in the tubing. The plastic is smooth on the inside. Thanks for the input!Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
just one more problem....will the pump suffer from having such a variance in tubing diameter?
Houston--we have Flow!
Well, for right now we do! :ROTF:
Still waiting on the rad which will be here tomorrow. PCs are not hooked up. But the barrel, pump, and plumbing are pumping from one building to the other--all setup, filled and moving water.
I currently have the system filled with my tap water to flush it out. I put drains at the lowest point on each line (to and from) in order to be able to drain the system. The barrel is detachable. I'm still debating on whether I want to buy distilled water or a new membrane for my RODI system.
Right now, I am just going to let it run and flush itself. Debris should flush into the barrel. Tomorrow I will hook up the rad and run it. Then start putting a shroud around it. Not likely that I am going to use the car rad fans. I think 1 or 2 of the 9" floor fans will be enough to create the necessary air-flow. ~63w each on high, ~40w on low. 120v and can easily be connected to a timer.
Its probably going to be a week or 2 before I can get the PCs incorporated into the system. I ordered some stuff today, and I still need to order the tubing. I'm building an open bench-top multi-PC case. Hopefully that will be done by the time the other stuff gets here.
The hard part is pretty much done.
Thank You, Martin, for the input. :up: Pretty much clarifies what I was thinking. A closed loop is different then just trying to pump straight vertical head. I seem to have plenty of pressure at the moment without the rad. The gate valves to the PCs are closed and the manifold by-pass (1") is wide open. Yet I still have some tygon tubing doing a bit of bouncing (1/2" barb return to 1/2" barb inflow--closed gate valve).
I still need to run full-time power to the building for the pump and fan(s). I picked up some of the stuff the other day, but that is kinda/sorta turning into a project of it own......:( I'll git-r-done.......:up:
I'm not seeing any issues coming up. But we'll see.....
Great! Make sure you flush everything with pure water at the end. Milan (where I live) has such a mineral rich tap water that I have already seen some sign of crystal formation on the inside of the pump head.
Anyway I have built my relay switch. Not much of an update but it looks very good. Encased in a black plastic box it al so has two leds: blu for correct functioning and red if by any chance any of the connections (12v or pump feeding line) fail.
One question though: What if I hook up the relay to one of my fan conectors of my motherboard? The switch absorbs 80 milli amps and requires 12v to activate. This means that if I were to hook it up to the mobo I would be able to switch the pump off through speedfan by adjusting the speed of "fan 3" (were the realy will be hooked at) to "0" correct?
Sorry to double post but I have a small update on my setup and a question:
I have received my ek supreme plexy top. Looks sweet! I have not purchased the barbs and here is what I came up with:
http://img31.picoodle.com/img/img31/...sm_739349a.jpg
Industrial barbs with teflon and oring. You can see the teflon through the plexy.
I have a question though. I tried hooking everything up and there is flow but it is very modest! if I hold up (in the bathtub) the tube coming out from the ek supreme I get a steady flow of approximetaly 40cm before the water falls back in the tub. Is this normal? Is this block that restrictive? Without the block the water coming from the pump outlet would move (even if submerged) the whole volume of water in the tub. Something more like a jacuzzi rather than a normal pump. Ideas?
P.s. comments on barbs are welcome!
should have plenty of hose clamping area to work with :D