Creative Labs to sue a driver modder (Daniel_K)

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03-30-2008, 07:56 PM
Peakr

I think this whole Daniel_K thing was the straw that broke the camel's back and unleashed the floodgate of hate for Creative. It's a bold move by newegg to boycott their products. Perhaps they will see the light and mend their ways. But judging by their history it seems unlikely.
03-30-2008, 08:03 PM
keiths

It's an unusual spectacle, but 5000 returns in 48 hours makes it a necessity to boycott their products. Returns cost Newegg money.
03-30-2008, 08:05 PM
Sparky

some on the creative forum are saying the newegg post is probably fake... Don't know if it is or not, and it got hard to read later because the site wasn't loading properly (text would run off the center part behind the side borders).
03-30-2008, 08:26 PM
safan80

I think it could be fake because the three link on the bottom of their sig are wrong.
03-30-2008, 08:30 PM
SoulsCollective

Quote:

Originally Posted by safan80

I think it could be fake because the three link on the bottom of their sig are wrong.

The links are right, they're just somehow prefaced with this "wlmailhtml:{803ED5BC-E8D2-439A-BE8D-119C35FD9F19}mid://00000081/!x-usc:" crap. Now, I'm not a web genius so I have no idea what's going on there, but this is probably a function of the general messed-up nature of the Creative forums.

The fact that the e-mail address is webmaster@newegg.com and that the forums require you to activate with a link sent to your e-mail is pretty damn compelling.
03-30-2008, 09:23 PM
shiznit93

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerekFSE

5000 returns for soundcards seems high to me?

Also, wouldnt newegg have other channels to speak with Creative through, instead of a post on a public forum?

that's exactly what I thought, so I checked the poster's profile and the registered email address is webmaster@newegg.com. Is it possible someone not officially posting for Newegg is using that address?
03-30-2008, 09:36 PM
Zytek_Fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerekFSE

5000 returns for soundcards seems high to me?

Also, wouldnt newegg have other channels to speak with Creative through, instead of a post on a public forum?

They're speaking to their customers though to let them know what they're doing.

I applaud newegg if it's true :clap:
03-31-2008, 01:58 AM
DeathReborn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie27

Got links to other places where I don't down $hit managers?

http://tinyurl.com/35qda6

Just look at the comments...
03-31-2008, 03:10 AM
naokaji

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoulsCollective

Newegg has spoken?

5k returns of creative soundcards in 48 hours, ouch thats going to hurt.

I can fully understand the egg's decision to not sell anymore of those cards and I hope more people will return their creative cards due to that.
I should have done the same back then, but I trashed mine.

Should we start taking bets on how long until creative goes the way of the dodo? personally I don't know anyone who would miss them.
03-31-2008, 03:19 AM
Cybercat

Holy **** @ NewEgg!

I already knew they were the best hardware purchasing site on the net, but I just fell in love with them over again!
03-31-2008, 04:15 AM
Syn.

Good idea but not true. Try ordering Sound Blaster cards of Newegg and you will know what i mean.
03-31-2008, 05:17 AM
Donnie27

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathReborn

http://tinyurl.com/35qda6

Just look at the comments...

I may have missed it but I'm not a Torrent user but I'll try when I get home, thanks!
03-31-2008, 06:13 AM
RaZz!

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit93

The registered email of the newegg poster is webmaster@newegg.com and that forum requires email confirmation and activation so I'm thinking it's legit, unless someone else has access to webmaster@newegg.com

i don't know about the creative forums but commonly a user can change his email address. so maybe the person regged with another emailaddress, clicked the activation link and then changed his email-address in his profile.
03-31-2008, 06:16 AM
lapdog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie27

Got one for MS's HDCP?

AnyDVD HD
03-31-2008, 06:32 AM
Donnie27

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit93

The registered email of the newegg poster is webmaster@newegg.com and that forum requires email confirmation and activation so I'm thinking it's legit, unless someone else has access to webmaster@newegg.com.

I'm content my x-fi (which i got used for $40) now that I replaced the crappy stock opamps, but Creative's had it coming ever since they maliciously sued Aureal out of business and bought the Ip for dirt cheap after Aureal was forced to file for bankruptcy due to litigation costs (even though it won the lawsuit). I still have my Diamond MX300 somewhere, and A3D 2.0 pwned anything EAX. They also killed Soundstorm (I miss my Nforce 2), the best on-board sound ever made, with hardware acceleration and real-time DD Live encoding, with a malicious lawsuit against Senasura (Soundstorm was based on licensed Senasura tech), forcing the company to shut down due to litigation costs and sell their IP to Creative. Nvidia was forced to abandon Soundstorm development.

Now we find out they intentionally cripple their Audigy series Vista drivers to disable key features which work just fine in XP and are listed all over the shiny box and their website, in an effort to force obsolescence and make their loyal customers buy X-FIs, all while telling people that the features don't work due to incompatibility issues with Vista. That my friends, is called fraud. If Creative manages to survive this mess, you can bet there will be a class-action lawsuit coming.

Good riddance and :banana::banana::banana::banana: you Creative.

It is amazing how mis-information can cloud folks' judgment. A3D wasn't sued out of Business, they just like 3dfx took the money and ran. I was an Aureal Fan and was disappointed after cheering them on. They jumped at the offer Creative made them when they bought them out, Frakkin sellouts:mad:

The second one, you're wayyyyy off on as well. Creative didn't kill SoundStorm, from what I understood nVidia did that themselves. In FACT Creative and nVidia are two of the main Partners and Forces behind OpenAL.

Then some of Creative's problem is all of the DRM Vista brings to the table. For Protected Multimedia Path to work, everything had to be moved from Hardware Mode, to User Mode.
03-31-2008, 06:58 AM
Donnie27

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerekFSE

5000 returns for soundcards seems high to me?

Also, wouldnt newegg have other channels to speak with Creative through, instead of a post on a public forum?

Question, have 5000 customers purchased the Card with-in the return period? Something seems fishy here. Their return period is only 30 days. Or do they mean over a certain time period?
03-31-2008, 10:30 AM
shiznit93

It turns out the Newegg thing was probably fake, Audigy cards are still on sale on their site.

Donnie, my judgment is just fine. I remember those days very well, Creative destroyed Aureal with lawsuits and shady business practices (bullying devs to use only eax and such) so chill out. Soundstorm and Nvidia's Xbox sound hardware were based on Sensaura tech, which Nvidia couldn't use after Creative bought the company, the fact that they are partners on something else is irrelevant.
03-31-2008, 10:38 AM
phelan1777

I signed.

Quote:

We endorse the Creative Labs Driver Quality Petition to Creative Labs.

Read the Creative Labs Driver Quality Petition

Name Comments
1943. Donald my signature here is comment enough.

1943 Signatures Total

View Current Signatures
03-31-2008, 10:50 AM
Donnie27

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit93

It turns out the Newegg thing was probably fake, Audigy cards are still on sale on their site.

Donnie, my judgment is just fine. I remember those days very well, Creative destroyed Aureal with lawsuits and shady business practices (bullying devs to use only eax and such) so chill out. Soundstorm and Nvidia's Xbox sound hardware were based on Sensaura tech, which Nvidia couldn't use after Creative bought the company, the fact that they are partners on something else is irrelevant.

Did you think I was trying to jump you? No, you chillout! Aureal won the court case after filing Chapter 11. They did prove Creative was in the wrong. They settled out of Court for 28 Million and Creative stock. So, yes, until the stock decline, Aureal was still making money from Creative's stock. That's not how Donnie27 feels, but the facts.

Quote:

Creative Buys Aureal Assets
by Maarten Goldstein Sep 22, 2000 6:25am CST tags: Creative
Yup, it's happened. After a lot of speculation, Aureal announced that Creative will be buying the company's assets for $28 million in cash and additional Creative stock as well. The sale will also settle the lawsuit between the two companies. Aureal filed for chapter 11 around March of this year. Guillemot was also in running of purchasing the Aureal assets.

nVidia tried to use OpenAL before they'd partnered with Creative:) id pulled the same stunt, twice LOL! NOTHING is stopping nVidia from doing another Soundstorm=P
03-31-2008, 11:11 AM
Donnie27

Quote:

Originally Posted by keiths

You don't do a petition where a lawsuit is warranted. A petition is naive.

Not always. I quickly signed the petition for Creative lying about 24bit.
03-31-2008, 11:51 AM
NH|Delph1

Is there an online petition against online petitions I can sign?

//Andreas
03-31-2008, 11:56 AM
shiznit93

The only goal of Creative's suit agains Aureal was to bankrupt the company with high litigation costs. Yes Aureal won the suit but they spent so much money on lawyers and didn't have enough coming in, so investors pulled the plug. If Creative hadn't maliciously sued things might be different.
03-31-2008, 01:25 PM
Donnie27

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit93

The only goal of Creative's suit agains Aureal was to bankrupt the company with high litigation costs. Yes Aureal won the suit but they spent so much money on lawyers and didn't have enough coming in, so investors pulled the plug. If Creative hadn't maliciously sued things might be different.

Cool, I wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything:) Prior to filing Chapter 11 Aureal was loosing about 5 million a Quarter without counting Legal fees.

http://gamedevelopment.com/newswire/...ex20000327.htm
Near the bottom of the page:

Quote:

Aureal Turmoil
Poor fourth quarter financials are only the beginning for Aureal, as the company now faces the mass resignation of all executive officers and senior staff members. Aureal's fourth quarter operations generated a net loss of $9.5 million, a large increase from last year's fourth quarter loss of $3.5. Loss for the year as whole reached $26.9 million, compared to losses of $18.5 million in 1998. Aureal attributes some of this to $6.4 million in legal fees related to it patent suit with Creative Labs. Resignations followed the financials by a day, with President and CEO, Kip Kokinakis, Chief Technical Officer Scott Foster, Chief Financial Officer David Domeier, Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel Brendan O'Flaherty, and the senior staff of Aureal announcing their departure. The Aureal Board of Director has announced that it is considering all options, including new management, a sale of assets, or the cessation of operations.

Back on Topic. I can't believe users of the DRM ladened Vista are complaining about Blocked features!

It is impossible for Creative or any company to condone features they have agreed to block, unlocked.

There are such things as Regulations and Laws. What if Creative Labs said. "Nice work Daniel K! We couldn't legally circumvent Protected Audio Path. We didn't want pay the Extra costs of DDL and DTS to keep costs down. Now we can sell for the same price, you can add the feature and this will equal more sales to at least the Enthusiast market." The whole DRM World would be on their @$$es in a Nano second. Conversely In or No Action taken is seen as approval.

Even if Creative Labs LIKED what Daniel K did, they COULDN'T appear to approve it. Come on folks, surely you guys understand Laws better than that, right?
03-31-2008, 01:33 PM
i found nemo

hmm, you have a point ....
03-31-2008, 01:49 PM
shiznit93

I wasn't offended or anything, no worries man. I don't mind being corrected on things, especially if I don't take the time to properly research something.

So Aureal's losses amounted to more than legal fees, how much of that was because of Creative pressuring developers to go with EAX only?

Back on the Daniel_K topic, there seems to be a lot of confusion. Yes what he did was not entirely legal, and I have never said that Creative doesn't have the right to stop him, especially after he made DD Live work on X-FI w/o a license.

But his work has also exposed Creative's illegal fraud of loyal customers, who bought "Vista Ready" Audigy cards, only to find out the driver was intentionally blocking key features, and Creative was telling these people "those features don't work in Vista, nothing we can do, buy X-FI". This is the problem.

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