watercool your pumps, if they get that hot it makes sense [to me]. same with the m-atx sli motherboards, not enough cooling is probably causing the failures
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watercool your pumps, if they get that hot it makes sense [to me]. same with the m-atx sli motherboards, not enough cooling is probably causing the failures
Please let us know what you find after receiving the new pumps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petra
Thanks...
Ugh, my Swiftech MCP355+Petra's top just died.
when I came home from work I rebooted and thankfully Speedfan alarmed me with several "flame/burn" icons.
The pump won't start up anymore (after only a week of duty), the pump came pre-assembled with the Petra top, should I open it up for investigation or would it void my warranty ?
man, I have this bad feeling in my stomach now..importing my new WC parts from the US cost me an arm and a leg already (to the Netherlands), now with the upcoming RMA it's going to cost me even more. Hopefully my mainrig hasn't got any fried hardware...
That really sucks, how old is the pump ? I am running the same one :confused:
Opening it won't void any warranties. My ddc2+petras also stopped working after the first week. I never opened it up but I gave it a few taps on the desk and it started right up again. Had a bad feeling running it after that incident, but it's been troublefree for about 3 months now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryb47
The pump ran for only 8 days, and it's rather new too:
manufacture date: 01/07
part no: 71730 (not that far apart from Sigfever's DDC)
oh well, I just dismounted everything and I'm back on my stock aircooler (everything seems fine yay), thank god I still kept it - really can't be bothered to install my old pump now...
Sorry to hear about your pump. I would open it up and see if by chance something got under the impeller impeding the movement. Let us know what it looks like.
It seems like a lot of us are having issues like this. I remember thankfully mine did it after a power down. Seeing how these instances are all from the first week of running, it could be that the design somehow manages to get a nasty air pocket stuck down there, which would make sense seeing how it'd be not long after initial setup. I gave it a few (gentle) blows and it came back to life. I did take it apart a bit later and so no signs of damage (other than a wet pcb for some reason, which could also have been it..).
OK, so I opened my pump: the 2nd pic pretty much tells everything
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g5.../mcp355_01.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g5.../mcp355_02.jpg
I remember Petra posted some pics of returned ddcs with burnmarks too, but I can't find that thread now. I guess I'll bug the shop for RMA *sighs* The circuitboard seems burnt pretty severe, it's all over the place. I didn't do anything weird with the pump, it was just sitting there flat at the bottom of my case.
I opened it up to find... a few mm of air between base and the PCB. Now tell me, you people think a heatsink will conduct a lot of heat away from the PCB? And a fan? The whole damn thing is shut! At least take off the bottom part or something if you're gonna try using a fan, gosh.
why do people think they need to cool their pumps?
Haha may have something to due with the fact that some of the pumps are catching on fire lol.
Or the fact that people are stating that the Petra Gel is bubbling up from the excess heat? If I put mine back in service I WILL shoot the before and after temps with my infrared Raytek and use a surface mount probe with my Fluke 52.Quote:
Originally Posted by rbd89
Well, if you care so much about cooling your pump, why don't you take off the plastic base and throw a fan on?
Man hearing all these horror stories, if my two pumps every quit on me I will sell the two Petra tops and go buy an Iwaki.
It seems to me that the D5/MCP655 is a tiny bit more reliable, or is it just that fewer people have D5s that one does not hear the gripes as often. I haven't had a dead pump... yet.... And this is precisely why all my loops have pump redundancy.
All DDC/DDC+ with modded top have higher flow rate compared vs stock. This is obvious to anyone.
What is less obvious, that modded DDC/DDC+ does MORE work at the same time, i.e. it has HIGHER power consumption compared with stock. It does consume more than 18W, at least more than non-modded pump. And electrical circuity inside the pump is not expected to sustain that high load for the prolonged amount of time.
That is the reason for numerous failures of DDC/DDC+ with modded top. That is probably the reason why DDC with Petra Top, being the the most powerful version out there, tend to fail more often.
Interesting concept. Would be interesting to put an ammeter in line with the pump to see what kind of current it is pulling, in stock form and with different tops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronos
Does the DDC+ fail more often than the DDC?
Another thing is that aftermarket tops change the force distribution on impeller.
Tops like Petra's gives higher perpendicular force component, which may affect reliability and results in starting problems. At the start, the pump probably consume significantly more than 18W, and higher perpendicular force acting on impeller results in prolonged starting and prolonged circuitry expose to the very high current.
I personally have mine hanging from the roof of the case by a little wire wrapped around the outlet hose.Quote:
Originally Posted by sreedx2
So it's free floating to prevent vibrations and give it better airflow..
But now that you guys mention it I've never touched the bottom when it had been running for an extended time so I'm not sure if mine is getting hot or not....
Wouldn't Alphacool tops do the same thing?
Yes, but to the less extent. It should be more reliable, but anyway it operates out of specification.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
And seeing how small the performance difference between Alphacool DDC+ and MCP655 and how big is the
price difference, i am starting to reconsider this part as well :)
I know of DDC dying even when unmodified, but it also holds true for all other pumps.
Cronos... where to start... :shakes:
While you do bring up a couple points that sound very believable / plausible, you obviously don't know much about the pump, its capabilities, or various parts that are available through Laing.
First, yes, the custom tops do increase maximum flowrate and slightly increase current draw. However, Laing has tops for the DDC series which are tooled with larger inlets than mine and provide even higher max. flowrates (at the cost of head pressure) and power consumption with no change in MTBF. Clearly, increased flow and power consumption isn't an issue, else Laing wouldn't be confident in providing such a part. That aside, while the custom tops do provide a large maximum flowrate increase, when in use in a typical water cooling loop, you're only seeing an increase over stock of between 0.07GPM and 0.6GPM (obviously, it depends on the parts being used... but the performance difference between mine and the Alphacool top is not nearly as large as you're alluding to). As for power consumption, according to tests that Laing did, at 1GPM there's only a difference of 1.6W between stock and my top (a difference which decreases to 1.46W at 2GPM). The components can handle it, especially when you take into consideration that the overshoot at startup is about 4A (48W).
The failure rate information that you're gathering based upon the reports of individual forum members is grossly skewed.
Anyway, I'm working on a complete work-up of the current (orange/red impellered) DDC-2 with various tops and the new (blue impellered) DDC-2. This time around I'll be going pretty far beyond what I did last time and, let me tell you, there have been a lot of design changes implemented with the new DDC-2. Anyway, I have work to do.
@Petra,
Alex, I am glad that you are testing the old vs new impeller pumps. I would like to see the design changes that they made to the impeller, they either discovered a design flaw or found a way to increase the pumps performance.
The extra work that you have been doing is up and beyond your call of duty and we do appreciate it. :toast: