pcp&c 750w isn't that bad !?...is it ?
Perkam
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pcp&c 750w isn't that bad !?...is it ?
Perkam
A "low" of 28db (which is the max for most of my case fans) and a max of 42db? Even 38-40db would be a racket, imo. :)
Just for info....I rma'd Enermax EG851AX-VH(W) 660W twice. It ran fine for a few years with single core cpu oc'd. Problem started when I ran with dual core cpu and CF/SLI bench rig. Now, it runs as a second psu for Crossfire cards.
Also run Zippy PSL-6850P... never let me down.....Any loads any time no problem:)
I was just curious as to why this was Tier 2 after reading jonnyGURU's review about it ( http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/Tagan530W/ ). He gave it a 6.5 and said the voltages were not stable and that it failed his crossload tests. Now on the one hand I am still considering this PSU since it does meet all my personal requirements for a PSU (quality sleeving and cables, black casing, modular, 2+*12v rails) but I am scared to buy it after reading that review and puzzled as to why it is in tier 2....Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Also if you have any quickie reccomendations for this setup, that would be cool :) :
Opty 165 @ 2.75ghz (with plans to go higher)
2GB OCZ mem
1 * 7800GT (with plans for 7950GT soon, no plans to go SLI)
1 * sata hdd (maybe 2 eventually?)
1 * optical drive (maybe 2 eventually?)
1 * x-fi soundcard
4 * 120mm fans
1 * MCP655 watercooling pump
Here are some PSUs I have been looking at so far:
* Antec NeoHE 500W
* Xclio Greatpower X14S4P3 550W
* Enermax Liberty ELT500AWT 500W
* Corsair HX520W
Right now I am using a Cooler Master 450w that I got on sale. Regretting it now, watching my rails fluctuate all over the place using my friends PSU tester.
EDIT : I hope nobody thinks I am trying to hijack this thread :\
Jonny knows how to review PSUs...but he also has an inkling of a bias against Tagans...though that may end up being a good thing, as jonny guru has high standards and doesn't give a 9 to just any psu, hence the 6.5 score...Tagans are powerfully built PSUs with high quality components and I would trust the U15 530 watter with x1900 crossfire with no worries.Quote:
Originally Posted by kuhla
However, out of ALL the PSUs you have listed the Corsair will literally BLITZ the rest of them...480W on the 12V ALONE...thats other than the 5v/3.3v rails...so yea, if you can...get that one.
Perkam
Thanks Perkam :) I will keep both points in mind. Let me also make sure to state that this thread is an incredible peice of work. Thank you very much for taking time out of your life to contribute something so usefull to the community :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
When I get my watercooling hooked up this weekend I will let you know how loud the pcp&c 750 is. As it stands right now I cannot hear it over my Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 pro. I don't see how you could think it needs to be in a server room because it has a 80mm fan. I cannot hear it at the moment. I'm not saying it is as quiet or quieter than a seasonic but it is definitely not loud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anemone
I didn't just decide I was going to be biased against Tagan. I have no reason to single them out over any other PSU company.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
I actually used to respect them as a quality PSU. Even using them myself in my own rigs more than a couple times. Then I learned that Topower puts out a lot of crap. I judge them fair and square.
The crossload test on every PSU is exactly the same: Max on 12's, 3A on 3.3V and 4A on 5V. Every Topower fails. The load tests are also relatively equivalent (as equivalent as differently rated PSU's can be) and the Topowers consistantly show poor voltage regulation. Look at similar wattage Seasonic Element 500W and any of the Andyson built units. Efficiency is also mediocre and there no APFC. These are facts. Not bias.
You're right...though due to the fact that 99% of the people that use Tagans or Seasonics or Zippys never even come close to loading the psu at that level means that the Tagans are very dependable units at meagre loads and the rails are usually dead on.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyGURU
Years of reliable PSUs that don't die on you or that don't kill your hardware means Topower has a reputation for making good PSUs...even if that doesn't mean that they're on par with today's standards. I think you tend to use your findings in your reviews for your recommendations while I use my experience and the feedback I've gotten over the years from members who use Topower PSUs, to make mine.
Perkam
True on some points. But I've also worked RMA at many different facilities (ASI, which is tier 1, TCWO, which was once one of the biggest mail order outfits to name my two biggest jobs) so if we're going to go down that road.....Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Most of the people here could probably use a Deer or Codegen PSU and never have a problem.
Prove me wrong. I still have friends that work my old job in the industry and we're still talking about something that has a 5% RMA worst case scenario (still high, but acceptable.)
With the exception of some SLI/Crossfire rigs here, 99% of the people here buy a PSU that's three times the power they actually need. Can you argue with that?
Find me someone with a Topower and SLI or Crossfire that's 7800 or better or X1600 and better and I'll show you someone who's voltage are all over the place.
Topower's are better build quality than many, but they still perform horribly and still are overpriced. Will someone actually realize that their PSU has horrible load regulation? Probably not for the reason you state. Most people won't push a PSU to that point.
But I do know one guy that posted at a couple forums not too long ago (this might have been one of them) that was trying to buy a Zippy from Servercase. When it was out of stock, he went with the Tagan 900. His rig WOULD push a Tagan to it's limits (more realistically, about 500W... but it's typical to get twice what you need even in a high end machine) and his voltages were all over the place. He got a great big "I told you so" from me. He turned around and bought a PCP&C Silencer 750W instead. He's now happy.
There's a horrible double standard with lists like these and it's the reason I took down mine. You can claim you base such a list on personal experiences, but they're personal experiences from people that really wouldn't know any better.
Also, you site "years of reliable service" but PSU's didn't start needing to be 500W and up until a year and a half ago when SLI came out! You can't tell me that someone that had a Tagan with a 6600 a year ago is still using that same power supply today with a pair of 7900's. Think about what you're saying. Years ago, I supported Topower. I've sold Topower for six years. I have a Topower 300W rolling around in my trunk that I just pulled out of my mom's machine. But will I use one with a high end rig today? No. Did I use one with a high end rig two years ago? Yes. But what was my high end rig two years ago? Athlon XP 3200+ with four drive RAID5 and an FX5200. You'd PISS on that machine today.
There's FAR FAR FAR better choices for the money than a Tagan. But even if you got a Tagan and have never had a problem with it... why "promote it" by saying it's as good as some REAL quality PSU's that are the same price???
I do the same thing - it is precisely why I don't recommend any Topower unit before I see it tested well first. I've seen people complaining about two and three in a row failing, and I'm talking first generation 520W OCZ Powerstreams - top of the line for Topower at the time. Methinks there's a reason OCZ decided to switch to FSP as an OEM ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Topower is capable of making awesome PSU's. However, I get a very strong sense that they rush things to the market without testing them fully.
I remember that one... the Tagan in question was flirting at the same price point the Zippy was. Topower has a very long way to go before even their best PSU's will convince me they can compete with Zippy.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyGURU
FYI for those looking at the specs of the silencer 750 and trying to say the psu is loud. The psu is not loud in fact when I was setting up my water loop I stuck a piece of paper in the fan grill to make sure the fan was running. The only other thing running was the pump. I'm not sure how loud the psu may get at full load but I don't buy a psu to run at full load I buy one that has more than enough power for what I need.
Sunbeam NUUO SUNNU550-US-BK ATX12V/ EPS12V 550W Power Supply 100-120V CE, UL (CUL), TUV, CB, FCC, FIMKO, SEMKO, DEMKO, NEMKO - Retail
how is this psu? jonnyguru gave it a 9.5 but on this list it is tier 4 brand?
Hey man, I have to disagree with you for putting Lite-On on the bottom of the pile! The unit in the link (review) handled a Presshot 3.2->3.9GHz and a fully clocked up x1800xt 512 (650/850), without a hitch. It is running my Allendale rig ATM and I cannot say enough about this unit. :)
http://www.overclockers.com/articles1353
To be fair, Lite-On, when OEM'ed for Dell, HP make pretty budget, low quality stuff, but for power buyers like Supermicro, the build quality is very very good.
I like the idea behind your guide, but IMHO, it is a big challenge to sort out. I would approach this by making a list of top OEM,s and listing the GOOD units they build. Note that big OEM's don't always have a uniform quality product line (Lite-On for example), so categorizing your list in terms of OEM's and the good units they make would provide a more accurate picture of things.
Edit#
Sorry if I sounded a bit rude, but these are my thoughts on the matter. :)
I thought the SilverStone Zeus 850 would be Tier 1, but im a n00b at PSUs so i'll let the experts comment on this.
adamant - I think you need to load that psu up a bit more before you can say that with more surety. However, the first hand experience is duly noted and I'll say that the silencer guts seem to be aok :)
Sunbeam Nuuo is now tier 3...silverstone zf models are now tier 1 due to them etasis based models...but it only applies to silverstone 850zf, 750zf and 560zf.
Perkam
I gave it a "9"Quote:
Originally Posted by crspyjohn
8 for performance. 10 for value. (Got to admit they're cheeeeeeeap!)
Could I suggest that you say that in the first post? (ie: "Silverstone ZF (Etasis)) or something... it looks a bit confusing with the same thing in T1 and T2 :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
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I'm surprised Skyhawk PowerOne, aka Eagle Tech or Zebronics, are not listed.
They use somewhat misleading specs. In this review, it spells out how the Skyhawk 570+ watt units have dual 12v rails @ 20 amps each. That's pretty good, to a layman that compares to something like an OCZ 600W Powerstream's dual 12v specs, wow! But look a little deeper at the 12v maximum wattage... it's only 300 watts! That's ony 25 amps max 12v power, which is very sub-par by most anyone's standards much less here @ XS. That wouldn't power a X1800XT video card in a very basic system. :slapass:
I also looked up Zebronic's ZEB-730W PSU for giggles, which can be found here. Its +12v1 and +12v2 rails spec @ 24A and 22A, respectively. Pretty darn good specs again, ah? But if you dig deeper again you'll find its max 12v power is only 350-400W (29-33 amps)! That's pathetic for a PSU rated at 730W. :slapass:
By what I can tell, Eagle Tech's models are just rebadged Skyhawks. Newegg sells them for more than an OCZ Gamexstream.
My advise is to stay far away from all of these.
Done.Quote:
Originally Posted by xenolith
Silverstone ZF Etasis Models specified...akasa models added to Tier 2 and Tier 3. Tier Z added.
Perkam
The list is coming along nicely. A fair representation of all the offerings available to us. Excellent job mate!
Eagle IS Skyhawk. It's the same company.Quote:
Originally Posted by xenolith
They also make the CompUSA MasterPower 520W modular unit, among others.
They also make some of Antec's cases.
Perhaps the 560w ZF should be tier Z? It's got the quality of tier 1 PSUs but does it have the brute power? I could be wrong.
I agree with your list, for the most part. There are several things I would change, These are:
1. The Mushkin Enhanced series in Tier 2. There are far better choices, for less, and with better voltage regulation. Maybe Tier 3?
2. Antec in Tier 3. I wouldn't put them in tier 3 simply because of Fuhjyyu capacitors. Maybe a seperate catagory, like 3.5?
3. OCZ Powerstream in Tier 3. I would specify that the Powerstream 520 SLI with the Blue led is in tier 3, and that the other powerstreams are a step down. Maybe 3.5 again?
4. Aerocool and Hiper in Tier 4. Made by Andyson, decent regulation, and not atrociously expensive. Maybe 3.5?
5. MGE / XG and Masscool in Tier 4. Depending on which model of MGE/XG, some are made by Seventeam. The Sole masscool, the Nextherm 460, is Seventeam again. And that is in catagory 2.
6. Coolermaster. It Definatly does not belong in the lowest tier. The 450 is ACBel, the 600 is a 500w Seventeam, the really cheap 460 is Hipro. I would put specific models in specific catagories. They are definatly not crap.
7. Ultra in Tier 4. Great price-performance ratio, they really aren't bad, and there's always a few rebates to pick one up for really cheap. My suggestion is Tier 3.
Those are my recommendations.