blazearcher, I wonder have you run a GPU block for a year yet and opened it up? Or is it all hearsay and clicking?
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blazearcher, I wonder have you run a GPU block for a year yet and opened it up? Or is it all hearsay and clicking?
Other than having an ol' H20-220, I have never opened a GPU block before. Either way, you shouldn't expect to build a loop using a block in that state.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conumdrum
Yeah agreed, on the pics and on the block, As some of US are stuck with 1024x768 screens, distilled water and colored or clear hose, No dye.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conumdrum
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Conumdrum
@ blazarcher please keep this thread for its intended purposes and Skinee's content.
It has everything to do with a "GTX480 Block Round-Up" I don't see how my posts do NOT relate to Skinnee's intended purposes. He is doing a GTX480 roundup isn't he? xDQuote:
Originally Posted by masska
When a person starts babbling racist comments and is trying to shove peoples oponion in the way he/she thinks like you're doing here:
...that's when people start getting annoyed. Stop this and keep this thread, hell keep this forum clean from these kind of posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by blazarcher
OT: Even if there's depostit in the Koolance block, I don't think I ever put something in my loops without taking it apart, looking for residue and metal shavings from manufacturing process and cleaning it thoroughly. This doesn't matter one bit to a performance review. Thanks for listening.
Korea has top world class manufacturing centers. nuff said.
last time I checked this was Skinnee's thread. Main purpose and function (and correct me if I'm wrong), is to post results on HIS testing and discuss HIS results.Quote:
Originally Posted by blazarcher
I recommend that you start your own thread and keep this one clean.
McZonk mentions in his review that this 'dirt' inside the Koolance block came from grease that is used by Koolance to install the sealing.
When you start using this block the grease starts to dye the water.
You should clean the block before using it!
I deleted blazarcher's comment about this. Left his post as skinnee did not ask to have it deleted, but agree we should keep the main focus of this thread about skinnee's testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conumdrum
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by masska
Thank you, hopefully that guy and his "opinions" are somewhere else now. He's far too green for this stuff aparently. :rolleyes:Most likely.Quote:
blazearcher, I wonder have you run a GPU block for a year yet and opened it up? Or is it all hearsay and clicking?
Nice job on XSPC block Skinnee, funny enough living in London this is the only block I can drive 10 minutes into the pc hardware district and purchase one off the shelves! but something tells me I may not be doing that. Good looking minimal block though.
Whats up next? :D
No offense, the installer clearly tightened the screw too far. Regardless whether a block has standoffs or not, it's good to use some common sense with assembly.Quote:
Originally Posted by blazarcher
I did not see any warping like that with my installation... video started rendering as I left the house this morning, will be uploaded once I get home this evening. Hopefully, I'll be done with all three mounts on the HK later this evening and can get back to finishing up tweak testing.
i agree... but i can't see any results :( 21 page and not a single number... maybe some tease... PCB temps or presure drop :)Quote:
Originally Posted by masska
It'll all come out as one big review :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetalar
TBH, we never expected this thread to take off the way it did--it was more of just a heads-up to expect a GPU block review and to show the blocks that are included.
Sweet XSPC!! Whatever people said about the looks (including me) should be ignored. I think this block could potentially grow on me lol. Wonder how it performs though, I remember their last block, for the 5870, performed admirably although not the best (but considering it's looks, I think it was a great seller).Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
Yeah they must have done something wrong while installing it. I really wouldn't expect something like that from WC.Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
Sorry guys, false alert!
rofl green, what's that supposed to mean =)Quote:
Originally Posted by ell
- lol just noticed that rhythms!
Sorry about that, I really thought that posting the Koolance block was relevant to the thread. We are talking about a GTX 480 Block round-up, aren't we? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by shazza
are you deliberatly trying to get your post count up or are you just being an idiot?
and props to skinnee and vapour, this thread has almost 40,000 views in 8 weeks:clap:
people are clearly hungry for facts, figures and the truth (on 480 water blocks..:ROTF:)
That's just o-ring grease (but it looks like our assembly staff got a little crazy with it). There's a number of sealing areas on the GTX 480 block, and some of it gets squished inward upon assembly. It's only visible if the block is opened. It can also be wiped off if it's a large concern, but I would suggest leaving enough for the o-ring areas outside the liquid path.Quote:
Originally Posted by blazarcher
Tim
I'll keep my Koolance thank you very much :D
rofl, it came out on top. No worries, as long as it's been cleaned, you should be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTSnake
Would the grease have a drastic effect on the longevity of a loop? I was surprised when I saw all that grease, that doesn't look good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolance
lol I feel offended by that. Why in the world would I want to keep my post count up. And who are you to be calling be an idiot? BTW, lets keep things on topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by ell
use multi quote bro...............Quote:
Originally Posted by blazarcher
Why would he do that if he is trying to boost post count, does no one see the irony here :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyu
Also when are these results coming!? I think the 485 will be out when the tests come in :eek:
Seriously though, keep up the great work :up:
moving on to HK mount 3 and uploading the install video.
Working as fast as time allows, I want to be done with the round-up as well. :)
edit:
Fun fact, I've cleaned and mounted coolers on this card more than 24 times now. :shakes:
access granted hello all...
very excited to see the results will be picking up my 2 480's on thursday and then after the round up ordering my blocks X_X
Except for that backplate the mounting seems pretty straight forward for the HK, nice video! :up:
Allen screws everywhere on that block. While I really like them I can see now why that other reviewer overtightened them around the VRMs, I just don't understand why he blamed this kind of user error on the block.
Edit: Hello there and welcome! :)
Excellent video skinnee, keep them coming! Your full report on all of the water blocks cooling performance will be worth it's weight (wait) in gold! :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
NM, I'll PM it.Quote:
Originally Posted by blazarcher
I'm not getting any audio with that video.Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
Alex, I'll take "being an idiot?" for $600 please.Quote:
Originally Posted by ell
It's good to see that these cards are pretty durable. I'm normally quite hesitant to touch a GPU and tend not to remount anything, unless I really have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
Is the HK block the last tests you are working on?
I'm afraid I already made my choice with the EVGA GTX 480 FTW card/block combo (I came across a deal I couldn't turn down), but I'm very curious to see your results!
Would wonder if you're going to wear out that GPU just from all the remounts you've been doing! :D
MSI is Quality :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kougar
The card has taken a beating, and I have worn off the GF100 label from the GPU lid. Vapor and I both put a serious beating to the hardware we test with. Once testing is finally done with, this card is going to see some LN2 so she needs to hold on a while longer. :)Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cx-ray
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaroz06
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kougar
Yeah, finishing HK then back to TIM tweaks. @cx-ray, yeah I have to agree, mount the GPU block once and be done unless you absolutely have to remount. Taking the block off the card is quite a violent process (Thermal pads release easy, the TIM likes to hold) and that is where you are most likely to damage the card.
Love the vids, but looking at the HK, I think I'll still go with AC.Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
I heard that ASUS' GTX 480's overclock the best compared to even EVGA and MSI. Is this true? -- I don't think the GPU's are any different internally seeing as no 3rd party designs have come out yet for the 480 so I wouldn't expect performance to differ going from MSI to ASUS/EVGA for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ_64
Wow I guess it's nowhere near as painless as CPU block mounting, you must be mostly worried about the mem chips popping off! What is LN2? Isn't it also true that nickle plating is your friend when it comes the flushing the blocks for cleaning? Keep up the great work! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
Liquid Nitrogen, the beverage of choice for OC Gods. :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by Systemlord
no, actually liquid helium is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
I bet you're glad the TIM hasn't had more time to set! Good way to build up those muscles though... :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
With enough GPU cycles the heat just cures that stuff like cement... I hope I never have to take mine apart. :yepp:
Wait. . .what? Since when. . . and why don't we have a board for it?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
Its not really practical, expensive as hell too.
Great thread Skinny. I can't wait for your results to finally come out. I'm getting Ansy i must say. But I have ZERO room to complain after all the work your doing for us to benefit. If I could rep you, I certainly would!
and blazarcher, people are getting bothered cuz your posting 4 posts in a row, in a matter of minutes. Thats why this thread is 23 pages.. Use the edit button and keep double, triple, or (uh oh, dare i say it) Quad posting to a minimum.
Are you noting a subjective difference in block mounting processes ? Like which one is easier, or which one is a PITA ? I think that like CPU blocks now the thermal difference becomes secondary to such other factors.
OT: did anyone measure yet what size exactly are the screws for the stock heat sink?! Are they M3 or something else?!
Having just put together quite a few cards with AquaGrafx (470) and EK (470/480) blocks. I must say that the way the EK block is designed with the two screws in the ex-fan-area held on with plastic washers does not fill me with confidence and is the first time that I have felt that the design of a full cover EK block has been not as professionally put together as the previous blocks.
e.g. (from vid)
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/e.../wtf_ek480.jpg
Those screws are not going through holes, they are holding on the the edge of the fan vent with one side of the screw head and the plastic washer.
You really do need a backplate supplied with these block IMHO.
Wow, I didn't notice that as I have a 470 and there are 3 proper holes there to ensure contact on the VRM's. I guess Skinnee is the best person to comment on the fitting / contact but looks like the WC backplate thing is a good idea, suprised that EK did not make some kind of bracket. Suppose they did the best they could with the reference design PCB.
Aye, backplate is really a necessity on these things. I mean its been fine in use so far, and I've put a few together without backplates. However the EK backplate for the 480 doesn't offer any screw holes in that area and the instructions tell you to leave those two screws as-is. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ_64
EK is not the only one to use the fan holes to help with mount pressure, Aqua Computer, XSPC and Watercool do as well. AC also has a backplate that comes in the retail package, Watercool has a fan hole cover as I'll call it, EK makes you fork over another $30 for the backplate. XSPC uses the same approach as EK with the washer.
I personally prefer backplates, and while I have not had any issues with card bending (I typically overtighten) I still would like to see backplates from all of the manufacturers. But are they required... no.
backplates have another big plus - with them LC sys looks prettier, and bling is important for lot of LC builds @ XS aswell, no matter if they are actually needed functionally or not :)
I didn't count the Aqua Computer one as it comes with the backplate as standard in the package and the screws in that section screw into the backplate, but I see your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
I'm not saying that functionally it shouldn't work, hell I've done dodgier mods in the past that stayed together for years :cool:
But it doesn't "feel" as pro imho.:shakes:
Also some of the blame must lay with Nvidia, the 470 has a better configuration with 3 screw holes around that area.
EK backplate will not provide any better contact between block and PCB, it is just for the looks - and the looks are great :)
EK block mounting is sufficient and contact is good with the 2 screws through the fan holes on PCB.
I've screwed on each of mine as hard as the rest and no problems.
It holds very well too, I've had the first backplates with no channel over 6 chips on the back which caused bending of the plate/card and the bend on PCB would start only past 2 screws which means they keep the block well enough at this point.
Initially I was afraid too but turned out no problems.
No need for blame it it works well, it just may not seem right initially :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Biffa
Only alternative for those blocks makers would be to extend block to the end but this would increase the price and weight for no good reason so I see why they did it that way.
I hear you bling brother, I would pay extra for a backplate if it meant looking attractive while not harming the card in any way, I'm really tired of looking at the back of the PCB board!Quote:
Originally Posted by churchy
Some of the blocks extend slightly to use the screws on the edge of the card in line with the fan vent. Either one or both screws.Quote:
Originally Posted by luke997
Okay, so working through my TIM tweak trials...
EK block has to have the pads on the VRM's and memory to have proper contact between the block and chips. Aqua Computer has enough contact that I am willing to try just using TIM.
So then would you call the AC the better card of the two? lol. BTW, is using TIM over pads any better in terms of cooling performance? I really don't see why all these blocks vary. Some require TIM, other pads. I'm assuming that this has to do with how well the contact is between the block and the GPU.Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
But does TIM yield better temps? lol if pads were better wouldn't we be using pads on our GPU's and CPU's?
ek has updated their website that the backplate is not compaitable with asus or msi cards
pic of gainward, palit ref design
http://www.hartware.net/showpic.php?.../1103/back.jpg
pic of msi. asus afaik always buys foxconn ref design
http://www.techsweden.org/bilder/Hre...480gtx-25.jpeg
the only diff i can see is above the smaller pcie slot connector
the msi has two transistors
I thought all of the GTX 480's were of reference design meaning there all pretty much the same...?Quote:
Originally Posted by cstkl1
ive got asus,galaxy and palit now. no diff
msi rmaed
wondering did he put that because my msi was shorting with the plate
or did he really checked y
It looks to me loke those 6 chips on Asus near the black strip are higher than on the reference.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstkl1
It may be just the illusion due to the different angle but then EK said those chips weren't on the reference (or that high at least) and I the backplate without washers definitely bends over it on ASUS.
I guess we need someone with access to ASUS, MSI and any other make and a measuring tool...
hmm well i did a c/n and took the palit with msi rma.
but if u look at the evga gtx470 hi flow edition with the backplate
evga took a lot of precaution for the back
and aquacomputer backplate they put sponge thingy behind the gpu chip and another near those 6 chips
I noticed EK doesn't have the 480 backplate anymore in their Webshop...I just ordered one and it's on his way. Will I be unable to use it? CAn anyone confirm this? I have an Asus GTX480
Regards,
Wolfskin07
You'll be fine but place thin washers underneath the standoffs to raise the backplate a little bit and check visually for clearance once done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfskin07
If you haven't ready washer just make some from thick/hard paper.
And if there's anything touching on the backplate, stick a thin thermal pad on top of it to prevent shorting....
Oh, and don't crank down too hard on the screws. The backplate is pretty much just for looks anyway.
My ASUS 480, EK waterblock, and EK backplate just arrived yesterday.
I tested it under air to make sure the card's OK and I'll be attaching the waterblock and (hopefully) the backplate tonight . . .
guess we'll see how it goes.
again
i warn u
that 3 screws on the backplate to waterblock
if u dont tighten it enough
ure risk frying ure mem's
if the backplate was not connected to the waterblock.. ure theory is sound.
have fun
advice to run without the backplate
With the thin washers there's no problem with 3 middle screws, you can tighten them just fine and the plate is flat so no bending = no problems and good contact.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstkl1
I have 3 cards done this way and RAM running 2000, no problems.
Obviously though everyone does it on his own risk :D
Luke, I can't get the closeup pictures to load, so I'm not sure exactly where we're talking about the extra chips causing problems.
And I haven't checked things closely yet (and I'm at work right now so I can't check things at the moment).
Do you know where the bad contact is occurring? And do I put washers on all the screws or just the 3 internal ones or just the outer ones?
I suppose if worse comes to worst, I can leave the 3 internal screws directly on the board and waterblock and just attach the backplate
with the outer rim screws ?
tell me to get lost if this question is out of place... just seems like this mad thread is getting some eye time!
how long can I leave a water cooled loop / setup with out running it before I would have to do a full bleed and dry?
yupQuote:
Originally Posted by luke997
eddy said they are building a new backplate
so y take a risk for something that cost usd25
u cant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulwind
the backplate has prebuilt stand offs
ure screws will be below it.
once theres flow from one end to one end.. so dont really have to wait for full bleedQuote:
Originally Posted by delushin
Pics below - they are links as 1st they are large and 2nd I don't want to trash this thread anymore than I have to :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulwind
Here outlined chips on the back of card:
http://rapidshare.com/files/39657854...ck_problem.jpg
Here are close up of the side of cards with backplate on near the problem area - prior to mounting washers.
If you look into the large white capacitor in the middle, 1st problem is the wires coming out of it on the back of PCB.
Without standoff they were touching backplate on 2 of my cards.
The chips are just left to this capacitor and it is visible there is no clearance between it and backplate.
http://rapidshare.com/files/396578122/DSC02900.JPG
http://rapidshare.com/files/396578123/DSC02901.JPG
You can't put washers just on the some of the standoffs - this might cause backplate/PCB to bend, just put them on all.
+1 for cstkl1 answer - you can't leave the middle 3 screws when mounting the backplate easily - to do that you would have to dremel/mill the standoffs on the backplate as they are exactly over those screws so no go.
BTW - Been thinking about it myself but washers are easier and that's what EK advised too.
What about that strip of foam alongside those chips you are talking about, doesn't that foam strip prevent anything from touching? Also could you share with us how thick your washers are and if they came with either the backplate and/or EK WB? I plan on using an EK backplate on my EVGA GTX 480 and would like to use whatever washers are needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by luke997
- Systemlord
Nope, plus you need to remove it as there are 2 screws underneath :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Systemlord
I just cut the washers from thick paper and drilled holes through - quick and easy - it is about the thickness of the standard washers which EK includes for example for the waterblock for last 2 screws where the fan holes are (I actually used couple of those exact washers - didn't use them for those screws as they raise the screws).Quote:
Originally Posted by Systemlord
Hope that helps :)
Thanks, I can probably use some fiber washers at about 2mm thick, sanding them thinner if needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by luke997
- Systemlord
No problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Systemlord
2mm is waaaay too thick. It is less than 0.5mm.
If the washers are too thick, you will not be able to mount the backplate as the screws are short.
I figured 2mm would be way thick, there's this hardware store 35 miles from where I live, McFadendale's carries stuff you will not find in many places on planet earth! From grade 12 hardened steel 1M screws all the way to 24M screws that must way in at 30 pounds, washers made from material like PVC washers about the thickness you are talking about, they have stuff I've never even heard of before! I'm headed out that way on Saturday, what size washers were you talking about for what size screws?Quote:
Originally Posted by luke997
- Systemlord
M3 size, but seriously, it is easy and quick to cut your own from whatever you've got at hand (I used hard paper which was packaging for AA batteries lol :) and punch a hole :) you'll save yourself a long trip and this will works as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Systemlord
Got one in Vegas. Way across the big crowded valley. Awesome place, way worth the drive. Needed rad screws, teeny and long. They had it and the tap and die set for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Systemlord
A wonderful place, the sweet knarled old lady was a great smartass and knew a lot.:D
Only McMaster Carr on line has more.:up:
Skinnee do you have an estimate on how much longer it will be before you provide the data were all so anxiously awaiting? Thanks..:D
I'm not good with estimates, because unforeseen events always happen when I try to estimate.
I do however have this little nugget to share while I'm hanging out at FrozenCPU today...
This was snapped last night.
http://skinneelabs.com/assets/images...omTIMPrint.jpg
Now, I'm trying to decide just how many blocks should get the all TIM treatment as the results were jaw-dropping.
are the results going to be posted soon? or at least a hint of the difference all-TIM makes before Monday when my kit arrivesQuote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
How can one know if the TIM is transferring heat more efficiently?Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
Not all cards can make the transition to all TIM, I first tried the EK and there was no contact on the VRM's. My thinking here is EK engineers the block with specific height knowing the thermal pads that will be used.
I notice that you keep mentioning the EK block. Are you hinting at something here? :D
I believe Koolance blocks are designed the same way. I can't wait to see the results now that you say Jaw Dropping :) I am now running my 3 EVGA 480 GTX SC's at 900/2100 and my temps with my cards only rose a tiny bit. I still idle at 33C but after looping Vantage my top card gets up to 54C. Still very acceptable to me considering this is all on a PA 120.3. I have a HWLabs 480 GTX sitting here just have not installed it yet. I want to see these Jaw dropping results now though.... Can you tell us is it just temp related or did it allow for a much higher OC by adding the TIM?Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
Just an observation here, I was looking very closely at all of the different designs and I noticed that the Danger Den water block has the inlet channel flow directly over the GPU core area while the outlet channel on it's way out also passes directly over the GPU core before the water exits. Mmmmmm...
- Systemlord
Maybe they want half the die to be cold and the other side hot? Call it the fire and ice block?
No, it's just that the block is designed to use TIM pads and without the pads, the contact cannot be achieved with thermal grease only.Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanSmooth
Patiently waiting for result ... skinnee great jobs as always!
EK block always looks good. Can we use both TIM pads and thermal grease together? Eddy?
Logically you could use thermal pads just on the parts that require it for contact and then grease on the rest. I did this for my 280 although it is basically dead now.
As I said 3 posts up, you cannot as the block is designed for the thermal pads.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeChuo
Nice thread mate, If u dont mind me asking which Block gave the best temps?