Not sure if I have posted my HD5850 Vantage work.
http://minidriven.com/GreenMachine/S...CoreHD5850.jpg
Orb details with PR:
http://service.futuremark.com/result...eResultType=19
Printable View
Not sure if I have posted my HD5850 Vantage work.
http://minidriven.com/GreenMachine/S...CoreHD5850.jpg
Orb details with PR:
http://service.futuremark.com/result...eResultType=19
Whats weird is that I pass vantage fine at 1300 mem but running Wow, I'll get graphical corruption eventually.. at 2x anti aliasing and full shadows and full everything at 1920x1200.. the driver recorvers but still.. 10 second pause
I cant really say because I havnt used the 5850's.Quote:
Originally Posted by SonDa5
I went with the 5770's because rewiews showed two of them being as good as a single 5870 while costing less.
If you get just one 5850 or 5870, you can still add a second later and get uber high end performance, two 5770's on the other hand is the price / performance choice, but I'll say that for most people, a single 5850 or 5870 would be a better choice.
If this is true then i am not impressed. My friend on a 5870 @ 1.1ghz has scores very close to this and his i7 920 is around 3.7-3.8Ghz....
http://www.guru3d.com/imageview.php?image=20791
ajaidev : well cores are only 725Mhz, at that resolution you are badly limited by CPU, even if its running at 4Ghz, so i dont think that score is that bad :)
yah it's exactly the speed of 5850 x-fire, maybe a little faster. I bet if you had this a 1.1ghz it'd score close to 30k gpu
http://i34.tinypic.com/vnjko0.jpg
edit: this is from Bodar @ guru3d.
It appears the ABT benchmarks are done on a dual 1440SP card, because here is the comparison with dual 1600SP at the same clocks + same cpu.
(Look at the 3DV CPU score.)
Bodar's Settings
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...parison2-1.png
ABT ES 5950
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...gggggggggg.jpg
Bodar's 5870 Crossfire
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...t/crysisx2.png
ABT ES 5950
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...iolet/gggg.jpg
Bodar's 5870 Crossfire
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...t/vantage2.png
ABT ES 5950
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...olet/ggggg.jpg
Bodar's 5870 Crossfire
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...alkerbench.png
http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.ph...1&postcount=19
Summary:
3Dmark Vantage (P score - GPU):
5850 CF 1440sp 725/1000 - P21308 / 20734 (87%)
5950 ES 1440sp 725/1000 - P21940 / 21151 (89%)
5870 CF 1600sp 725/1000 - P22891 / 22342 (95%)
5870 CF 1600sp 850/1200 - P23308 / 23657 (100%)
Crysis Warhead (min - avg - max):
5950 ES 1440sp 725/1000 - 20.4, 34.2, 42.2
5870 CF 1600sp 725/1000 - 24.6, 37.4, 46.2
Stalker Clear Sky (average frames):
5950 ES 1440sp 725/1000 - 45.7, 43.8, 47.7, 35.6
5870 CF 1600sp 725/1000 - 49.8, 49.3, 54.7, 38.1
Hi! Are these temperatures on Voltage regulators scary?
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/8692/3dmark06oc.jpg
Definitely higher than average. But should be safe. Don't worry about them. If that's the highest they go up to of course.
Very scary. With no load looks like it's going to melt under load. I'd go back to stock cooler till the problem is fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by jfer
Also nice 3dMark06 score. I'm just a little higher. (with Q9550@4.3ghz)
Your CPU has an advantage and I'm sure with some over clocking your can hit 26,000+
That doesn't look promising for i7.Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaidev
Maby the newer i9 builds can get it to go.
They are designed to work at up to 110 C afaik.Quote:
Originally Posted by SonDa5
Temps are high, but not horrible. I'd get worried if they started going over 80 C, though.
And he isn't the only one.
See here. Pretty close. Just a random link that took 30 seconds to find.
But if it's going over 80 C under load, then I agree, definitely, look into the problem, it's not normal IMO.
Thats the max Temps during 3 Loops of 3dmark06. At idle they stay between 38~42ºC.Quote:
Originally Posted by SonDa5
That's okay then! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by jfer
Not going to kill your card for sure. Just a bit warmer than for most folks here. Maybe disassemble the cooler to check if everything is fine if temps start rising.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfer
Your GPU-Z screen shot shows it ideling with o% load. Your GPU core isn't that hot but your other temps look hot.
I got my 5770s stable at 1000 Mhz, needed the fan to be put very loud, and 1.225v:
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2203/57701ghz.png
They definately wont go up to 1050 Mhz though, even with 1.35v and the fan set to 100%, everything artifacts.
By stable, I mean that I've been playing Battleforge for over an hour without any problems, and the temps are below 90 degrees with a noisy fan. I need to wait for some compatible VRM coolers before I can start modifying them.
At 100% default fan and clock settings, the first card was going up to 97-100+ degrees in battleforge.
They've been fine for over 3 hours of Battleforge now and remained under 90 degrees at 88 max :)
I've bought this Riser to work with 4 cards, but it seems it doesn't work.
I guess I bought the wrong one ?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Flexible-PCI-E...InterfaceCards
Can someone tell for sure ?
thanks.
EVGA Classified 759.
wow 5000 series are so sexy
in response to http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=507
While I do agree with your statement from a strict technical standpoint, I can't help but feeling quite frustrated by the "don't worry" advice. As manufacturers (and I am sure other colleagues might agree with me if they read this), we spend countless hours to fine-tune every aspect of our cooling systems to lower all the critical temps to a minimum. There was a long discussion earlier in this thread where ppl agonized about the shape of the water-block flow path to see if it was optimized to cool the VRM's..Quote:
Originally Posted by zalbard
jfer didn't specifiy what type of waterblock he is using, full cover, or gpu only. If it is a full-cover block, these temps are not worth the money he spent on the product (or RMA is in order). If he is using a gpu only cooler and individual sinks, then some ventilation on the sinks wouldn't hurt.
Also, I don't know if ATI has a temperature shutdown associated with the VRM's, but I found out working on the dual board GTX295 that nVidia has. The Board would lock up in high voltage high overclocks pushing the VRM's beyond 90 C.
I think that is correct 100%, this may as well be the 1440 * 2 card. But i hope AMD calls it 5950 and not 5970. Well the clock speed and memory speed make sense and so do the performance and price "This is why its suppose to be so close to the 5870 price"Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredpace
If they call it 5970 that would be wrong representation but i guess they can call it what ever the hell they feel like. I would have like a shorter PCB since the 4 * 5850's we have for milkyway@home is just rite to fit in a normal case without any mods.
In the end i would buy either this or the GF100 depending on the performance and how much they cost. I for one would have loved a 5890 with clock speeds around 1Ghz and special vaporX cooler. Would have not mind spending some extra bucks on that but it should be priced under the GF100.... :rolleyes:
i'll compare with 5870 def + q66 @ 4 gH :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredpace
http://i36.tinypic.com/25ez5lw.jpg
Alright, my bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
I read the post, but I missed the post's title, which was "Watercooled 5850@1000/1300". So I was assuming he was on air. Hence the misunderstanding.
Since he is using liquid cooling, I have to agree with you completely.
Just one thing to add.
This post: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=398
Perhaps jfer can tell us if it's under water or not. I assume it is air judging the fan speed reported by GPU-Z. If it's the same water cooling solution as the one he used for the last run, then something is going wrong with the waterblock, or with the card, since VRM temperatures have significantly increased since then.
And one more thing, I wouldn't be surprised if this were his VRM temps for GPU-only waterblock. VRMs can easily get hot as hell. Perhaps he might want to have a look at the special VRM solution made by Thermalright.
Im having my 5850 with a D-Tek Fusion(not lapped), BGA ram sincks, and 2Revoltec 50mm on the 4regulators at 4100rpm(very low noise btw).
Here some pics:
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2735/gputemp1ghz.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6347/2910091452.jpg
Did some 01 this weekend. Had some strange issues. Card wouldnt clock to 1120 on dice on the asus bios and topped out at 920 on the MSI one.
Doesnt matter though. i got a strong nature card! over 6ghz on the CPU wil give me gold!
http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/m...Crocker/01.jpg
If I remover the 5770 stock cooler for an aftermarket one, where abouts, other then the GPU and Ran chips do I need to attack heatsinks to?
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6163/23862168.jpg
I have two packs of 10 mofset heatsinks ordered that will fit on the 9 black chips next to the Yageo things, so i need heatsinks anywhere else?
Here's my vantage work on a P55 platform Trifire 5870
[IMG]http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6438/33343.jpg[/IMG]
^ what mobo is it ,runs 3x 5870 on P55
x8,x8,x4 config ?
that would be the EVGA P55 Classified
http://www.evga.com/articles/00502/classified/
http://www.evga.com/articles/00502/images/e659.jpg
My Futuremark work with DFI P45 JR T2RS and Q9550 with single HD5850.
3dMark03= 92,147
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=6213276
3dMark05= 29,199
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=5042946
3dMark06 = 24,422
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=12274206
Vantage = P18,289
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dmv=1523825
According to cpuz runs the 3 of them @ x8Quote:
Originally Posted by pr@$r1g
[IMG]http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/8098/linkwidth.jpg[/IMG]
Icebob CPU-Z is probably wrong. Unless Intel did a special deal for that MB.
I thought that the nf200 chip will take care of that. Here's a quote from the Guru3d review:Quote:
Originally Posted by SonDa5
"Humanahummana ... check that out ! That's six physical x16 slots. The reality is of course much different, once you need to split up the PCIe ports. With 2-way SLI or Crossfire you can link x16 on the two ports thanks to the NF200 silicon, but you'll revert to x8 PCIe lanes available in a 3-way configuration. The black PCIe slot is a x4 slot by the way. Hard to see, but all the way to the left you can also see a x1 PCie slot. "
running crossfire on nf200 :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Icebob
my 3dmark 06 scores
core i7 950 4,54Ghz 5870 1000/1300,air 28552
http://www.imagesforme.com/show.php/...Picture051.jpg
core i7 920 4,35Ghz 5870 900/1300 + 5850 775/1125,air 29719
http://www.imagesforme.com/show.php/...Picture028.jpg
Hey guys.
I havent followed this thred and just want to know how high are you pushing the voltage on the core for the 5870 cards? Is 1.35 to high?
I used 1.4V on my previous 4890s 6 months without a problem.
If you watch the temps of the voltage regulators and keep them under 65~70ºC
you´ll be fine! Im gona push mine to 1.4 and keep it 24/7 but i have it watercooled and sinks with fans on the Vregulators.:up:
Thanks for the heads up bro.
how do you guys install the overclocking software in Windows7 X64?
its always tells me "driver not signed". I Can't even run rivatuner or other monitoring software (easytune6 etc)
Here is what I tested quickly on Vantage, i think increasing the frequency gpu carefree at 1020/1050 .
http://i83.servimg.com/u/f83/12/23/45/17/3dmv10.jpg
Well the default is 1.16v for the RV870XT. The RV790 has a default of 1.316. And the RV790XT (1GHz) is running on 1.4375v.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuBBle.D
And you are looking at 40nm vs 55nm chips. The smaller the transistors get the lower the voltages go.(there are exceptions. It also depends on the chip its design) I see a lot of people running voltages of 1.3+ on the RV870's. With good cooling that should not be a problem. But 1.45+ i would not recommend on wc. But we will have to wait a while until we know it for sure.
Hi guys,
Can someone get me a bios unlocked XFX HD5870 ??
My video card is XFX and I would like to use an bios XFX...
thanks..
Yea i know bro. The lower the manufacturing process. the lower the safe 24/7 voltage. So i`l keep it at 1.3 max with the stock cooler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Astennu
guys, how can i get GPUZ to show my real current frequencies ?
i have force3d 5850 unlocked with msi bios
I have this card VTX3D Radeon HD5850 HDMI DisplayPort Dual-DVI 1GB , do u think i can use the MSI unlock bios to go past the limit . My limit now on Core in CCC is 775 and mem 1125....
This card http://www.vtx3d.com/products_features.asp?id=38
here's my awesome vantage score i dont know wtf is up im pretty sure it has to do with vantage, because i was getting higher scores before, btw this is with x2 5870s in xfire 1000/1300, i7v 920 at 4.2
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...creenshots.jpg
its really low for 2x 5870s...
here's mine :
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2162/58823698.png
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6808/34430068.png
the thing is that just after this, i found out that my memory can stay up untill 1260... :P cause i didn't understood the way to check and stablize them so i put them on low freq...
your cpu is holding you back...
Thats low indeed. HT enabled should help. What driver you use? Are you sure crossfire is enabled, seems like a single card score.Quote:
Originally Posted by yiannit
4200mhz i7 HT enabled single card @ stock:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...70/VP17898.jpg
1000/1200:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...v1000-1200.jpg
my cpu isnt holding me back i7 920 @ 4.2Quote:
Originally Posted by TMWH
i was scoring in the mid 20k a week ago. all the sudden its scoring low
crossfire is enabled and windows is recognizing both cards, i'm using the beta drivers which i have been for the past month or so. i'm pretty sure its a vantage problem i tried uninstalling and reinstalling which didnt work
i rolled back my drivers to cat 9.10 and same results except i scored at 20k. i disabled xfire and scored 17425 wtf is going on here? a week ago i was scoring 25k+ on stock
Quote:
Originally Posted by yiannit
That score is too low, I think you may have something set wrong in your CCC settings. What are you using to overclock your video cards, hopefully not AMD GPU Clock Tool.
I score P22646 in Vantage with my crossfire 5850's at 950/1250, and i7 at 3.8GHz HT enabled, CCC settings are highest quality.
25k+ sounds too high at stock GPU settings. Low 20K's I can possibly believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by yiannit
I think this will be my sweet spot. No reason to go higher with the stock cooler since the gain will be small. Just need to find max MEM freq. and im good to go.
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4407/5870oc.jpg
24102 was my score at stock http://service.futuremark.com/home.a...&resultType=19Quote:
Originally Posted by Blkout
now im getting 17k using both , but when i run the heaven dx11 benchmark im scoring normal. thats why i think its vantage
Guys I need some help here. Got my 5870 last evening and even though the 3dm06 scores seem to be in line with others at 1 Ghz core and 1.25 mem, the 3dmV score is around 12,000 for the GPU. This is not correct as it should be something close to 17,000 by my calculation. My system specs are in my sig and Im running it at 4 Ghz and getting an absolute crap 3dmv score...any help guys??? I reinstalled 3dm Vantage again, as there was a gtx 295 before this, but that didnt seem to help it.
with two 5870's running at 900/1300 I get 26xxx on the GPU score.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blkout
Guess I should have been more specific, I was talking about the highest quality settings in CCC, not the lowest settings for bench queens. I don't bench at the lowest quality settings because I would never play a game at those settings. There's almost a 3K point different in Vantage P scores between the lowest and highest image quality settings in CCC. My 5850's score 25224 at the lowest quality settings compared to 22646 at the highest quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by TechloGoblin
gotcha!...Was just letting you know incase you thought something was wrong. Just trying to help..It's hard on a forum when someone isn't specific.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blkout
which setting in ccc is highest? under 3d settings?
yes, don't forget there are also in game settingsQuote:
Originally Posted by yiannit
You can usually set up to 8x AA, and 16X AF in game
HardOCP just wrote a nice article about these settings used in the game Need For Speed: Shift. If you enable the settings in the ATI CCC you in effect get even higher AA and AF in game...Here is a link to the direct page in the article which talks about these settings:
http://hardocp.com/article/2009/11/1...rformance_iq/8
Yes, use the 3D menu, then under the standard settings, move the slider all the way to the right for optimal quality. I do not bench below these settings because these are the settings I use to play games.Quote:
Originally Posted by yiannit
No problem, its my fault, there are so many settings when discussing scores that it's hard to remember to mention them all, control panel settings, BIOS settings, application settings, etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by TechloGoblin
Upgrade motherboard BIOS and if not done already update ATi driver to 9.11beta. That should sort out your problems :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mav2000
I've used AMDGpu tool + afterburner to OC my 5850 to 815/1200. Problem is, upon reboot, my clocks revert to stock 725/1000. Is there a way to do a full OC without encountering the 775 limit other than BIOS flash? If I set GPU clock to 775 or less, the settings stick on reboot. Above 775, they go back to 725/1000.
well after inverting the cards i ran vantage again and im happier with my score 28503 1000/1300. but i swapped them to see if i get the same beeping error i got this morning if i do then my pcie slot is faulty
well i ran it again and i got 18kish score theres definately something wrong either with vantage or my hardware
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...eenshots-1.jpg
isn't the HD5850 share the same memory as the HD5870?
setting memory @ 1150 or 1200 give me same vantage score
Same speed memory on the 5850 and 5870. The difference between 1150 and 1200 is not enough to really notice which is probably why you didn't see an increase, especially if you benched at the default Performance setting. You should see a small increase at the Extreme setting.Quote:
Originally Posted by phsinc1
The 4800 and 5800 series benefits far more from core overclocking than memory overclocking.
is the PWM for the memory controller on the HD5850 exactly same as HD5870?Quote:
Originally Posted by Blkout
Everything is the same except that the 5850 uses 3 phases instead of 4 phases on the 5870. Regardless, both of my XFX cards run at 1000/1250 without any trouble with a slight voltage increase using MSI Afterburner.Quote:
Originally Posted by phsinc1
Thanks for the helpQuote:
Originally Posted by Blkout
so far I got my 5850 to 900/1200 with 1.17v, is this good voltage for that speed?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...5&postcount=34Quote:
Originally Posted by phsinc1
if anyone still looking for the official ASUS 5850 bios unlocked to 1200/1400, here is it
http://hotfile.com/dl/17667752/2859389/asus.rom.html
I got 1025 Mhz stable with my Silent Zalman coolers:
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3064/5770zalman1025.png
It artifacts at 1050 though.
guys, how can i get my 5850 to work on *more* than 1.35V?
is it needed for a VMOD or only a software mod?
I want to start ocing my Asus 5870 to about 1000/1250 but im having a problem with my fan. I cant control it anymore. In the start i could control it but now in Afterburner and in CCC i can move the bar all i want but the card is not changing the speed. I have tried reinstalling both programs but its not working.
My software is telling me that the fan is running on 50% but the noise to low for that. Could somebody check his gpu-z on what rpm your fan is when you are using it for 27%. I think mine is to low, so that mean my fancontroler on the card broke?
http://plaatjesupload.nl/bekijk/2009...475703-680.jpg
anyone have a 5870 vapor x or powercolor lsc?
i need one of them bios....
I got my XFX 5850 in, runs like a champ. Now I got MSI afterburner installed and AMD GPU tool, but the gpu tool keeps telling me "device not found" I tried admin with it on win7x64
I take it I need n ASUS or MSI bios to flash? anyone got links to how to flash including commands etc?
Thanks
Here is the official unlocked ASUS 5850 biosQuote:
Originally Posted by Unoid
http://hotfile.com/dl/17667752/2859389/asus.rom.html
you will need a bootable usb stick and atiflash 3.75 and use this command:
atiflash.exe -f -p 0 asus.rom
using atiflash.exe in DOS,
atiflash -p 0 filename.rom -f
Got MSi bios working flawlessly.
stock volts I see 900/1124mhz furmark/unigine stable. Got 47.4FPS in Heaven benchmark 1280x1024 windowed, all high 4AF
Stock clocks of 725/1000 same settings yields me: 40.8fps
Did already somebody change the stock cooling for somthing beter? I know that the Thermalright T-Rad2 and Twin Turbo pro would fit. But i beleave both coolers had a hard time cooling the VDDC.
For me MSI 5850/5870 unlocked is the best bios and Afterburner works perfectly. Here is my Sapphire 5850 with waterblock on the GPU only, flashed with MSI 5870 unlocked bios: @1112/1285 - 1.35v:
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/583...2128520739.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickless
1.35v, YIKES! :eek:
I got my two 5850's running at 1000/1250 at 1.274v but I'm not going to push any higher than that.
you got 900 core stable with 1.09v?Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoid
This 1.35v is only for benching, for 24/7 1000/1200 it needs 1.237v. The main problem for higher numbers and stability is too hot VRM. Look what's happen during Furmark test with VRMs :Quote:
Originally Posted by Blkout
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8852/furmark1.th.jpg
That doesn't seem accurate. I would expect VDDC numbers in the 80-100 range with a stock cooler, but that is insane. My VDDC's only reach low 50's with EK waterblocks under full load.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickless
No way that's possible. I'm not buying it. I guess everyone's definition of "stable" is different. About 10 Crysis Warhead loops on Frost at 1920x1200 at 4x AA should show how stable it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by phsinc1
My first 3D Mark 06 with 5870 :)
http://www.shrani.si/t/D/i5/3g8qq7ap/3d-mark-06-1.jpg
Is there a way to set idle clocks?
When I overclock my 5850, the idle clock drops from 400 to 157 which causes my second monitor to flicker.
Is there any other solutions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcl
U can create a custom 2d clock using msi afterburner. I tested it when i downloaded 1.4 and it works on my 5870
if those are the right vrm temps that card will be in broke pile in not too long :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by nickless
at 90c i get worried
I see these temps only during Furmark test and GPU-1.35v. In all other 3D test and games temps are between 70-80*C under load but for sure I put additional RAM sinks on the top of PCB above the VRM.Quote:
Originally Posted by cowie
Cheers, I'll check it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayke
Yes, it ran furmark and heaven benchmark at 900 and stock volts. load temp was 60C with 25% fan speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by phsinc1
EDIT:
I'm on windows 7 with 9.11 and for some reason when I enable ovedrive or use MSi afterburner to overclock. No matter it 1 Mhz or OC to 1ghz, I get screen flicker on my main screen and sometimes my 2nd screen (hydravisioned)
Anyone have this problem while in 2d? When playing a game or something I see no flicker except on 2nd screen.
Hello I'm trying my 2 platforms an my hd 5870 with another 5870 soon I get to spend the 3dmark benchs
http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/...7920HD5870.jpg
http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/...0_I5HD5870.jpg
http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/...50_FARCRY2.jpg
my new system...on air
http://i49.tinypic.com/2ibp7qp.jpg
Nice cooler, is that also made for the 5870, or just the little brother?
actually it wasn't made for none of them, I had to made a lot of work to make it fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake011
this is the last job:
http://i48.tinypic.com/2e2qurd.jpg
is the cpu hsf too big to have it blowing out the back, so that you could use your ddr3 in dual channel.... ?????????
My Vantage Benchmark. Not bad for a Core 2 Duo think I've nearly squeezed out all the performance out of this system. E6700 @ 3.65Ghz & 5970 970/5120.
Wonder how it will jump up once I get a Quad Q9650 @ 4.2Ghz+ :D
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1006/benchsv.jpg
Anyone know roughly what clocks a 5850 needs to perform at the same performance as an 5870?
I'd guess 950/1200, anyone got a good idea?