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Quoted from the link in the post above mine. Interesting if true, I guess we will have to wait and see...Quote:
There are new drivers coming out next week that will have increased performance for the Radeon 4890 cards, which will invalidate all current benchmarks that have leaked out.
More details will be unveiled next week at the Game Developers Conference. DailyTech will be testing the card this weekend.
I was speaking in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by pest
3 vGPU phases. 1+1 for memory (vDD & vDDQ). And looks like GPU memctrl now has dedicated phases, two of them. That would most likely mean a decrease in idle power consumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by fellix_bg
:clap:
Jeeze, that dailytech article reeks of bias.Quote:
Originally Posted by fellix_bg
Anandtech, has become really pro ATI lately.
Those crossfire results don't look too promising. Doesn't look like an upgrade to a 4890x2 is going to be necessary at all.
Just buy cheap 4870x2 when they come on to the market.
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8295/4890vs4870.jpg
4890 on top, 4870 on bottom
VRM definitely beefier
God i can't wiat for these babys to come out
do you think 2 4890s are enough?
and will 4890x2 have any improvements then 4890?
U should consider putting a disclaimer. This thread has gone beyond imagination... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
4890 is not VTEC powered anymore :shakes: :)Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
the memory chips sure look different, and VRM is definitely beeifer, but that was expected. im more interested in changes to the core (if any)
http://i44.tinypic.com/2vsn9rn.jpg
Uncore clock and/or uncore voltage anyone?
What exactly are you referring to? Can't read much bias into that article. They say it will probably be less expensive than GTX280/5 and that performance will most likely go up with newer, more mature drivers. Nothing more to say about that, seems like reasonable conclusions/assumptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
I'm looking forward to these cards, but maybe a RV740 is a better buy.
Hmm... look at that. A slightly different reference cooler than the original RV770 cooler. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by fellix_bg
Isn't that strange ToTTenTranz?:shrug:
Does it really?Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9956/2900xt.jpg
:rofl:
It just means its power hungry :p: But that was expected.
Or they are trying to get cleaner power for higher clocks...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
No but shhh, maybe my pic will make its way to the FUD sites!Quote:
Originally Posted by fellix_bg
No cookie for that, you should know. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
Indeed :clap: !Quote:
Originally Posted by largon
If 2 of these three things are true:
1) "Driver Improvements"
2) "Optimization"
3) 55nm GT process
I may seriously consider buying this...
Lets all get one thing straight here. I would like everyone to wait till April 6th before making judgements/conclusions. However...
With the differences in PCB, there is definitely something under the hood of the 4890 that we don't know of yet.
Perkam
Yes, different cooler. What's strange?Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
Anyone cares to check the difference in die size? It does seem bigger, although not much.
Agreed. (To me) This is backed up by the fact that ATI is holding the supposed "4890 hotfix" until next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
I also agree about the tweaks under the hood...
Fudo gives cookies to his sources and they say similar nonsense, I want mine :(Quote:
Originally Posted by fellix_bg
:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
I still remember back when the RV790 rumor appeared, and we thought that AMD had 2 SIMD rows there for yields.
And largon used some l33t paint skills to depict what he was seeing, and 2 or 3 sites picked it up and claimed it to be proof. :p:
Supposedly ~284mm2 vs RV770's ~256mm2...Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTTenTranz
I think we are expecting to much from the Radeon HD4890 I expect this to be along the lines of a cheaper card and an on par performance against the target price or performance segment, what price or performance segment that is, we still don't know.
Source?Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
Estimations based on the recent photos.Quote:
Originally Posted by eleeter
Ummm... no.Quote:
Originally Posted by @@@@
Im expecting a lot from HD 4890 OC.
The numbers are out:
http://www.ocheaven.com/news_view.asp?gid=6754Quote:
The rumors of AMD's RV790 that had been circulating all over the place have finally been confirmed. An HD4890 was unveiled this morning by a big guy in the graphic card industry. Someone was lucky enough to be the first one to test it. However, due to some confidential concerns, they're unable to reveal the physical image of HD4890 just yet. But they did reveal some initial test results.
http://www.ocheaven.com/news_view.asp?gid=8362
Definitely looks like there's "an uncore voltage".Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
Phases on R600 are different than RV790's - from bottom up on R600:Quote:
Originally Posted by fellix_bg
- 6 vGPU phases
- 1 GDDR vDD phases
- 1 GDDR vDDQ phase
From bottom up on RV790:
- 3 vGPU phases
- 2 phases for ??? (clearly detached and controlled independently from vGPU)
- 1 GDDR vDD phase
- 1 GDDR vDDQ phase
Actually no, that's ot what it automatically means.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
It could, but it could also mean it's actually less power hungry.
Like that RV790 was nothing but an overclocked RV770?Quote:
But that was expected.
:horse:
Haha! That was just epic.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelCain
:rofl:
ow, so a motherboard with more phases for the CPU will let the CPU consume more power.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
interesting observation..... :rolleyes:
highly unimpressive :(Quote:
Originally Posted by mastrdrver
There is additional phase components against the top right corner of the GPU, between the memory chip rows. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by largon
I think because people are giving such high expectations against the HD4890 it is supposed to be slated for a 20% more performance than the HD4870 but that is still a bit of marketing numbers, a best case scenario.
Well stock clocks mean nothing, if it has better power circuitry it might clock awesome...Quote:
Originally Posted by tenebre
lets hope so! It would be nice!
Oops you are right, t'was too early (08:30) to think clearly...Quote:
Originally Posted by fellix_bg
If you're wondering why the inductors are laid out as 4+2, that's because there are no 6 phase inductor packs on the market. All 6 vGPU phases drain to the same power plane though - unlike those on RV790.
Quote:
Originally Posted by largon
You mean "Vitec"?Quote:
Originally Posted by LightSpeed
And do realize the "Vitec" part is nothing but an inductor. A passive component. And Vitec is only one of the several makers of coupled inductors. Besides Vitec Electronics, atleast CooperBussmann and Pulse Technitrol make them. The PWM itself is still made of Volterra CMOS converters (because nobody else makes them). There's no performance difference between the inductors from different manufacturers.Really? Cause I think they look the same exact Qimonda chips as on RV770. Likely of a higher bin, though.Quote:
the memory chips sure look different,
:stick:
Well, it doesn't look like a paper launch after all.
If that's a retail card why the smudged barcodes?
:stick:
anyone got a barcode reader and want to convert the bars to serial numbers for us?
what would that accomplish? we already know the name of the card and its clocks....Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
Looks like the card was destined to be sold in Canada.
Nice. Any new info on pricing beyond the European links and the conversions?Quote:
Originally Posted by sxs112
Perkam
As close as the 4870 is to the GTX 280/285 in some games, you would have to be insane to pay $400 for the 285 over this card unless you had a specific reason, such as folding, 3D Vision, CUDA, or just going around the forums spamming about how you have the fastest single GPU core even though it makes no intelligible difference in final gaming performance.
If I was Nvidia I would be thinking about a Price drop right about now. I know I personally would already own the GTX285 if it wasn't such a horrid value compared to the 4870.
At 900/1000 the temps are decent at 29% fan speed IMO.
I think that temp is at idle though because the picture showed a 0% gpu load.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle
I know however, even at that clock rate for both mem and gpu I was expecting higher temps at idle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.BSEL
if this is better then 285 i am buying even though i never would go nvidia
Actually, the 4870 isn't horrible at folding, nets around 4.5K PPD.Quote:
Originally Posted by iandh
I want to see what this card can do! (And, if there is any ground to the improved shader efficiency rumor.)
OT @ iandh: Do you think that your 4870 sinks will fit the 4890? (based on the PCB pics that you have seen).
Anyone else notice that it looks like you could toss an 8pin connector on this PCB? Maybe we'll see some cards with an 8pin connectors on them. That'd be pretty rad for OCing.Quote:
Originally Posted by sxs112
Maybe. However, the reason that there is an 8pin connector is the beta cards used an 8pin+6pin, and retail will use 2x6pin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soultaker52
Does it look short or I dunno something looks different than the 4870
News from XfastestQuote:
Originally Posted by sxs112
http://www.xfastest.com/viewthread.php?tid=20277
They are selling it in Taiwan ( ASUS started selling HD4890 first , and both ASUS & Gigabyte ignoring NDA ??)
I heard rumor that they are for sales in Hong Kong as well
I will try to confirm that tonight :yepp:
Radeon HD4890 vs GeForce GTX275 on April 9
http://vr-zone.com/articles/radeon-h....html?doc=6779Quote:
Radeon HD 4890 (55nm RV790)
* HD 4890 is slated for launch on April 9th instead of 6th
* Cards have been shipped out to distributors and reviewers already
* 800 stream processors
* 1GB GDDR5 memory on 256-bit memory interface
* Clocks : 850MHz core and 975MHz memory
* Internal benchmarks claim 6% faster than RV770
* Expect to retail at USD$249
GeForce GTX 275 (55nm GT200)
* Expect to launch on April 9th as well
* No card samples yet even for AIC partners
* 240 shader processors
* 896MB GDDR3 memory on 448-bit memory interface
* Clocks : 633MHz core, 1404MHz memory and 1161MHz shader (Not final yet)
* Simulated benchmarks by partners reveals that it is slightly faster than GTX 260
* Expect to retail between US$229-$279
6% faster clock for clock? Because I don't think that 6% is all that you get from that much higher core and memory.Quote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill
Since GPU performance scales linearly with freq and RV790 already runs 13% faster the author must have meant the quoted "6% faster" as clock-2-clock.
If it scales linearly
clock for clock we could see a 6% percent improvement
the reference clock of the RV770 and the RV790, 750MHz to 850Mhz respectively adds another 7%?
total of 13%?
but could the increase in GDDR5 frequency of 50Mhz affects the performance or is it negligible?
i think at the end of the day, i have played a few games where running my 4870's at 1000mhz core would of really helped...
so this is all good as far as i'm concearned...
2 weeks to go....
Do elaborate what else affects GPU performance other than core frequency when memory bandwidth is in abundance.Quote:
Originally Posted by @@@@
So, how fast after release does someone think he will be able to post results? :P
I've got a HD4870 now and am willing to buy the HD4890 right after release if there is enough performance gain. :)
We should have initial results here within a week I would imagine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_maniaC
If it doesn't have a separate shaderclock domain the shaders won't scale.Quote:
Originally Posted by largon
Maybe thats the reason why 13% higher clocks means 6% performance boost.
HD4890 is listed in Holland :D
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/23669...dr5-pci-e.html
Curious maybe someone can explain but why does the ATI card only have 256-bit memory interface, It has a bit more ram than the GTX yet the GTX has 448-bit memory interface?
It uses gddr5 and doesn't need a wider bus.
GDDR5 vs GDDR3Quote:
Originally Posted by Glow9
Huh? It will still scale linearly since the core speed would increase the ROPs, TMUs and shaders.Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
That 6% increase is supposedly clock vs clock.
GDDR5. They can have a 256bit interface and still have similar bandwidth vs the wider buses on the G200 and GDDR3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glow9
My wild guess here is that AMD knew there was fair, but not an overwhelming amount of improvements capable out of the RV770 core. So they poured the majority of engineering resources into RV870, which there are now rumours of an earlier than expected release. Still though, I bet the HD4890 will be a worthy successor to the HD4870 in a couple ways. However, there is a good chance that i'm lost out in left field here too.
maybe GT300 and RV870 would go out around windows 7 final.Quote:
Originally Posted by flippin_waffles
i could be wrong but thats what i noticed when vista came and new cards was out, i think theire connected somehow.
More like AMD realized how close RV770 was competing already with G200 and with the delays on 40nm, decided a RV790 would be a good filler until they could get RV870 out.Quote:
Originally Posted by flippin_waffles
40nm was suppose to be ready Q4 '08, was delayed a quarter, RV870 was a late Q2 target. Then was pushed back to Q3, with only a rumor of another delay pushig it back into Q4, even though most rumors said RV870 is still on track and looking like a Q3 launch.
Were do you guys read that 6% faster clock per clock ,,
that means that RV790 is 6% faster than RV770 ,, 850Mhz vs 750Mhz , it could even be 6% from 4870 to 4890 :confused:Quote:
Internal benchmarks claim 6% faster than RV770
Ummm... because 6% doesn't make sense...Quote:
Originally Posted by kemo
The only way it makes sense is if it is 6% increase clock per clock.
To be precise;Quote:
Originally Posted by Glow9
HD4870 has eight GDDR5 chips each 1Gbits (128MB) in capacity yielding total of 8×128MB=1GB and since each chip has a bus width of 32bits the whole bus combined is 8×32bit=256bit.
GTX260 has 14 GDDR3 chips, each 512Mbits (64MB) totalling 14×64MB=896MB, total bus is 14×32bit=448bit. GTX280 has 16 chips and as such for the calculations: 14->16.
It's not wise to believe everything you read. Fact is the 13% frequency increase alone will gain 13% more in performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by kemo
And come on, would it make sense producing a different silicon for mere 6% total performance increase. They could have cherrypicked age-old RV770s to get even more than 6%, cheaper and with less of a hassle.
:stick:
True, it does seem like a bit of a hassle, but it is a "new" chip after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by largon
Also, do we yet have confirmation of it being on the 55GT process?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glow9
To add to what largon has said, that the 4870/4890's are using GDDR5, where as the GTX's are using GDDR3.Quote:
Originally Posted by largon
The GDDR5 is quad pumped, so 900Mhz has four bits per clock cycle = 3600Mhz effective. 3600Mhz x 256 bit = ~921600Mbps = 900Gbps.
The GDDR3 RAM is only two bits per clock cycle. So 999MHz x 2 = 1998MHz effective clock speed and 1998MHz x 448bit = 895104Mbps = ~874Gbps
So you see, the total actual memory bandwidth is much more similar between the cards, its just that they use different methods to get there.
Just for the hell of it I will also mention that from a card manufacturing point of view, the lower bus width (eg, 4870) is easier to implement - there is half the number of wire/traces to cram onto the circuit board with 256bit bus vs. a 512bit bus. This leads to a cheaper to produce card and is possibly part of the reason why the radeons are cheaper. It is also the technique that has been successfully used to make many a mid-range card. Create high end card, let manufacturing processes mature and cheapen, chop memory bandwidth in half and use a cheap but matured memory technology running at full steam and you have a decent performing mid range part. Anyway, enough lecturing, someone will correct me soon.
-Muunsyr
Beyond3D thinks that ATI upped the die size by a tiny amount, based on pixel counting from the leaked pictures. A small IPC increase looks very plausible.
Yep, you forgot to divide by 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muunsyr
4870 has 115.2Gbps of bandwidth and GTX260 has 111.9Gbps.
Not quite, dividing by 8 gives us GBps (gigabytes per second) as apposed to Gbps (Gigabits per second) :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
(It must be late over there, because I also make that out to be 112.5GBps for the Radeon, not 115.2...)
I hope the 4890 will be able to put pressure on the GTX285 and 275
Well, I have never seen anyone post those numbers you did...Quote:
Originally Posted by Muunsyr
Higher clocks and lower FPS? Seems like a possible driver problem for me. Then again, there should be no major changes in the driver area if only the clocks are changed. ...completely different story if the whole shader structure/amount is changed... :rolleyes:
Something is wrong there.
Promising gains in FC2 :shocked:
Something does smell off.
Given that one of these tests is clearly not indicative of the performance difference, this leaves us with one tests results which is hardly enough to start judging the card on. Especially so that different drivers are used for each card.
Edit: Also, is that 850/2.200 and 750/1.800 the core/memory frequency of each card respectfully? If so, it would suggest that the 4890 card tested has 1100Mhz (4400Mhz effective) memory. That or the reviewer can't type properly.
PCGH's early numbers are never spot on, but you can see a nice delta developing on the higher resolutions.
Plus, I want to see this thing clocked.
Perkam
There has to be, or else I will be the first one saying "ATI did an Nvidia...":rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Calmatory
shouldnt they have tested with the same beta driver for both cards + what does it mean x64/x86 catalyst driver :/ like did they test one with 64 bit and the other card with 32bit
Those results from the 4890 do not come from PCGH and they say so in their thread. Take a look at the crysis results. There you will find a watermark from someone else.
i am having high hopes for the 4890 to compete with 285 and the 4890x2 compete with 295
Unlikely.Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeCosmosS
Very likely.Quote:
and the 4890x2 compete with 295
Perkam
lol 4890 has standard fps in crysis there a problem there but far cry test is incredible nearly 25 percent
There wont be any X2 design from ATI/AMD. But it's possible for perhaps Sapphire to create a X2 if they think there's a market for it.
It's obvious that there's something wrong or else the 4890 is CPU limited since the fps is capped at 31,6. In FC2 there's 14, 20 and 35% improvement over 4870. In Crysis we see a 8,5% increase with 1920x1200 so...Quote:
Originally Posted by Calmatory
Edit: With a 35% increase at 1920X1200 it should be competing very well with GTX285 (shouldn't it?!) but that is probably best case scenario.
Edit no2: Comparing the GTX285 with 4xAA and 16xAF and extrapolating the results shown by xbitlabs for a 4870 and 285, the 4890 should end up 5fps faster than the 285 at 1920x1200. Link and calculation 39,5 x 1,35= 53,325. I'm aware of that this really stretching it but the performance figures shows it may very well compete with the 285 at least in some games (more than before).
Yup, all the results in crysis are capped at 31 FPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by marten_larsson
:shakes:
FC2 gains are very promising.
Lets wait and see. Hope for better drivers :)
The first problem is that they are using an i7 920. :yepp: Many reviews show the Phenom II to be the better chip for gaming. :yepp:
ATI does a lot better vs nvidia in high res, so a new ATI card showing better improvements at high res, seems natural.
Err...Quote:
Originally Posted by flippin_waffles
Fact is, i7 is generally faster but Phenom II is able to match i7 in some titles or even barely beat it when real world gaming settings are used. So no, i7 is just fine for benchmarking GPUs. And in this case it totally doesn't matter as same CPU was used for each run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by largon
There are other factors besides actual gameplay that affect i7 performance in gaming, like hyperthreading for instance. But whatever, if people like reading results with crippled systems, so be it. Maybe they turned it off. :D
Anyway, i've read this on vr-zone that the 9.4 driver will be released along side the rv790. I wonder if there's any significance to it.
http://news.ati-forum.de/index.php/n...launch-treiber
http://translate.google.de/translate...e&tl=en&swap=1
Crippled? The I7 is a modern CPU that is very popular. If the 920 was a 2 year old cpu than I would have agreed, but the I7 is modern and this architecture will be around for the next few years. Don't start about PhenomeII. It may be good/modest in games, but it's really not enough for people who do more than just games. And besides that, not every gamer overclocks. There are enough games who read this reviews, want a stable system, and don't overclock at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by flippin_waffles
I have yet to use a phenom II but I have heard very good things. I am building an i7 rig this week and a Phenom II after the end of april so I will let you know what my first hand impressions are of the 2 systems side by side :)
Well I don't agree.... at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
[edit]
But, crippled might have been the wrong word to use. It's just not the best choice of cpu for gaming. That's Core 2 and Phenom II territory. And yes, Phenom II is more than enough for people who do more than just games.