Disaster has struck!!

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03-08-2006, 08:00 PM
mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jokester_wild

Wow thats the most hardware i think ive seen a psu take out, ive lost Motherboards and videocards in one swipe but not harddrives and other parts along side them.

Now im not sure if PC P&C is a good psu for me :confused: I was just about to order one too now i am not sure as usual lol

Not sure if it right to blame on the PSU company - or PSUs in general not being able to keep up with powerhungry rigs these days
03-08-2006, 08:16 PM
Dumo

Seems like theres no psu/cpu/gpu makers thought that if combined...all of (their latest) products in a system then power draw to the supply will be so high.

Enermax, PC$P are few of the best in the business, still they got sucker punched now.
Zippy/Emacs in the other hand already made a name in server business....most of their psu made with "high load" in mind.
03-08-2006, 08:44 PM
Jokester_wild

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumo

Seems like theres no psu/cpu/gpu makers thought that if combined...all of (their latest) products in a system then power draw to the supply will be so high.

Enermax, PC$P are few of the best in the business, still they got sucker punched now.
Zippy/Emacs in the other hand already made a name in server business....most of their psu made with "high load" in mind.

Guess i should just go with a good brand, not that i will be running duel videocard anytime soon i dont think, probly be running a FX-60 and X1900xt... *shrug*
03-08-2006, 08:59 PM
STEvil

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeguava

What is troubling about all this is that no better safety precautions are implemented by PSU as well motherboard manufacturers ( hint hint DFI?) - I would think that something could be done to prevent such extreme incidents.

I thought they were rated to 510w RMS at 50c ambient as well?

Of course maybe you were slightly over that but other than an enermax i've not had any PSU's do major damage when they go.
03-08-2006, 09:59 PM
alpha0ne

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeguava

With the 510W unit with a overclocked Dual Core AMD @ 1.65V and stock volted 7800 GTX 256MB can bring those 510W units to it's max - often you can hear the PSU or parts of your PC with an audible humming noise.

What is troubling about all this is that no better safety precautions are implemented by PSU as well motherboard manufacturers ( hint hint DFI?) - I would think that something could be done to prevent such extreme incidents.

When I torture both cores (see sig) @ 2.86GHz with only 1.51Vcore (bios reading) I get a humming noise but I'm damned if I can isolate its source as it seems to be coming from the whole upper part of my rig ??:( , I think its time to maybe upgrade PSU as I very much doubt I would handle any loss as admirably as you mdzcpa :toast:
03-08-2006, 11:14 PM
afireinside

Quote:

Originally Posted by -orion-

DONT quote just a small fragment of my post. I said that:

"LOL thats what you get when hardmodding and OCing a monstrous rig on a mere 500W PSU.

And YES even a very good 500W PSU IS NOT ENOUGH for a rig with dual voltmoded 7800GTX 512 and a phase-change cooled FX60 @ 3.1GHz

Both GPUs can draw 120 W ON STOCK and at least 150W when modded, that CPU will need ~130-150W, thats almost 450W of pure load and I didn't count the hard drives, the voltage regulator on the mobo and the mobo, the DDR's, DVD's and other stuff.

That poor 500W psu was loaded to the max almost all the time. No wonder it died with a spectacular death. This is the price you pay for underestimating the importance of a sufficient PSU...

If you can afford a rig that scores over 10000pts in 3dm05 and plan to OC + voltmod it in you should pick your PSU really carefully and stay away from anything that has less that 600W on it. Even the best power supply can cause severe damage to ypur PC when it's overloaded all the time and NO overvoltage protection circut will give yoou 100% security.

Yes, he should have gotten a 600 watt XTEK XTREME POWER instead, because watts are everything :rolleyes:

Quote:

BTW, thanks Movieman. I may have been wrong to trust the 510 to such duties without turning into Chernobyl, but you are right about one thing, the manufacturers still don't have a clue.

Well if it was running everything 100% stable and it wasn't blowing air out the back hot enough to melt plastic (my OCZ 520w lol) then almost any normal person would assume that it is perfectly fit to run the system, except this orion guy. It's not your fault that this happened. Unless of course the inside of the PSU smelled like a BBQ under full load, in that case you should have known :p:
03-09-2006, 03:34 AM
freecableguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeguava

I think I remeber that thread - wasn't I the only one agreeing with you...

I had spoken a couple of week back with the folks at PC&C and at that point they were still under the impression that a 510W should be more than fine for a overclocked SLI system. I tried to bring across that it wouldn't, and for that the 850W would be the minimum for that task ( well I got the 1k unit to also be able to handle a 955...)

With the 510W unit with a overclocked Dual Core AMD @ 1.65V and stock volted 7800 GTX 256MB can bring those 510W units to it's max - often you can hear the PSU or parts of your PC with an audible humming noise.

What is troubling about all this is that no better safety precautions are implemented by PSU as well motherboard manufacturers ( hint hint DFI?) - I would think that something could be done to prevent such extreme incidents.

That would be the one. Everybody was very quick to judge my post as flat out wrong. You were about the only one to substantiate what I was trying to say. And then suddently 2 1/2 months later some "credible" site posts a short article with no backup about how these PSUs are not enough. Well no :banana::banana::banana::banana:. I threw down the math for it in December 2005. Shouldn't be a shock to everyone.

Now, I'm not trying to blame anyone for what happened. I talked to a PCP&C rep a couple months back. Supposedly their units are built with an automatic overvolt/overcurrent cutoff which makes it impossible for the unit to damage downstream hardware. Or at least they claim. To which I reply that there is no real protection for these types of faults as a fault with the unit can cause ANYTHING to fail including the "protection system." What really stinks is that they publicly claim no responsibility for any damaged/destroyed hardware as a result of failure of their PSU. (Which is why I carry a blanket homeowner's policy for just my computer equipment...only costs a couple dollars a year, well worth it.)

-FCG
03-09-2006, 07:08 AM
-orion-

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdzcpa

LOL...I could have read the same thing last week from that limp Extreme Tech article...thanks for the insight.:rolleyes:

I love getting lectured by a forum noob who only registered to reply on this thread (hey PCP&C, is that you?) Its especially amusing when they ignore the relevant facts as well.

If you read the thread, you would know that the vid card volt mods were NOT active when the rig blew. I was running stock voltage. (When I do bench and use the volt mods, I also only run 1 hard drive and nothing else....no multiple HDs, no ATAPI drives, no nothing).

Bottom line is that the PCP&C 510 should have been able to handle what I was running without "dying in spectacular fashion". The very notion that its okay for PSUs to fry everything in the system when they are overworked is utter nonsense. Granted, the 510w may have been pushed hard, but that's what any decent overvolt protection is for. The fact that the 510w Turbo Cool cannot handle a modestly overclocked FX60, 2 7800 GTXs, and a 3 HDs without grenading the entire system IS a problem.

Furthermore, just look around a see how many PCP&C 510s are being run by folks running the same set of specs I was.....ALOT. Check out the ExtremeTech article that says the PCP&C 510w passes muster for high end SLI rigs. That's not true and that's why I posted this thread.

Again, its one thing to get shut downs and instability from pushing the envelope, but it is quite another to have everything fried.

I must compliment you, though. Since the topic of high end SLI PSU requirements has come to light over the past week, and we've been seeing shutdowns and failures, your hindsight is indeed 20/20.

The death of your hardware was partially YOUR FAULT. You overloaded the PSU and got some fried hardware so dont call me a noob cause u dont look so smart either... If u were counting on the overvoltage protection to rescue your rig u saw what you got... a dead PC.

Maybe I cant say exactly what I want to tell U cause english isn't my native language but I repair electronics for a living so I'm not that noobish...

Look in here (its in polish but look at the pics:):
http://benchmark.pl/artykuly/rzut_ok.../strona-1.html
That's the way it should be done... 2 PSUs- Each 500W. When runnin paralel they are lightly loaded, quiet and have enough juice to power ANY rig.
03-09-2006, 07:18 AM
Delirious

Regardless of who is a noob and whos fault it is insulting and laughing at the guy when he has lost a substantial amount of money is just really wrong, myabe not where you come from but it is here.
03-09-2006, 07:50 AM
AACDIRECT

Running all that on a 510 PSU OMG OMG You stupid a$..... UHHH..... sorry forgot I was not on the [H] forum. :D < jk >

That really sucks. I am sure the loss of the FD was the hardest to take. Mine has been with me for over 10 years. I would not know what to do if she died. (Oh Clicky how I love you...)

Seriously glad you got it back up and running. Always sucks when good parts go bad. I wonder what killed what. (I know you assumed the PSU because it smoked.) I had a mobo just recently suicide bomb a system. The tech building the system blew up 3 videocards and two PSUs before he figured out the mobo was to blame. (I beat him for his stupidity. Bad tech monkey.... :nono: ) The aggravating thing was that the MB showed not damage.....but it hungered for anything put in the PCI-E slot or PSU connector. It had run fine on a Friday. Monday morning it went 187. No real reason. It had been unplugged over the weekend.

BTW The homeowner’s insurance can be a life saver. (I had a customer kill a FX53 a week after they launched and his homeowners covered it.) I personally insure all my hardware that way. You can't claim all the time as they will drop you but for something like this it is nice to know it is there. (Also is good to know your stuff is covered if your house gets destroyed.)

Again glad you got it running.:)

Edit -orion- this forum has some of the best overclockers in the world posting here. Running two PSUs is not the only way to do things. (His OC was not that outrageous and a solid single PSU will handle it. I do agree that a bigger PSU would have been better. BUT he posted that he knew that and planned on upgrading.) Regardless in this forum people help each other. If you want to flame people go somewhere else.
03-09-2006, 07:54 AM
uOpt

To drag this more to the technical side again, what exactly causes the overvolt protection to fail?

I mean the overvolt protection can be a very very simple mechanism, almost completely independent of the rest of the PSU. Why the failures?
03-09-2006, 08:01 AM
Jupiler

Quote:

Originally Posted by -orion-

The death of your hardware was partially YOUR FAULT. You overloaded the PSU and got some fried hardware so dont call me a noob cause u dont look so smart either... If u were counting on the overvoltage protection to rescue your rig u saw what you got... a dead PC.

Maybe I cant say exactly what I want to tell U cause english isn't my native language but I repair electronics for a living so I'm not that noobish...

Look in here (its in polish but look at the pics:):
http://benchmark.pl/artykuly/rzut_ok.../strona-1.html
That's the way it should be done... 2 PSUs- Each 500W. When runnin paralel they are lightly loaded, quiet and have enough juice to power ANY rig.

Nice way to make your entry on this forum, jumping into this thread and more or less "laughing" by the fact that Mike lost 2k $ in hardware because his PSU crapped out and took other hardware with it.

That's not the way we treat each other over here, so a little more respect would be appreciated.
03-09-2006, 08:10 AM
-orion-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jupiler

Nice way to make your entry on this forum, jumping into this thread and more or less "laughing" by the fact that Mike lost 2k $ in hardware because his PSU crapped out and took other hardware with it.

That's not the way we treat each other over here, so a little more respect would be appreciated.

OK ok sorry for my behavior. Maybe I was misunderstood. English isn't my native language so I probably expressed myself the wrong way. I apologize if anyone felt insulted or sth..

I know... the loss of such an rig isn't pleasant but this could be lightly avoided... I was simply supprised that a user with such overclocking experience (no noob vmods an 7800GTX and uses phase change cooling) didnt think about getting a PSU that could handle his monstrous rig...

You know... its better to have too much "juice" in your PSU... it wont hurt you and can save a lot of cash...
03-09-2006, 08:13 AM
freecableguy

how do you lightly avoid something? :stick:
03-09-2006, 08:24 AM
-orion-

Quote:

Originally Posted by freecableguy

how do you lightly avoid something? :stick:

As I said english isn't my native language... try writing your post in german/polish/russian and ill :stick: u too.
(sorry for the OffTopic.)
03-09-2006, 08:32 AM
pancake

And on that note i best take the psu out of this rig to test my other rig out.
Was on my other pc the other night and it went 'BANG' and tripped the power out in the house.
Took my antec psu out and plugged it in again , and it went bang again and i could see a huge spark light up the inside of the psu!!
I think its the transformer in mine that went bang.
Lets hope my Cbbhd winchester, brand new asrock ds2 , and my recently revived X800XL are ok still!
Wont be as costly as yours though ! i would be crying if my stuff was worth that much!
03-09-2006, 08:38 AM
alpha0ne

Quote:

Originally Posted by freecableguy

how do you lightly avoid something? :stick:

I hope the stick indicates jokingly ribbing him, otherwise it is wayyyy beneath you :)
03-09-2006, 08:42 AM
freecableguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpha0ne

I hope the stick indicates jokingly ribbing him, otherwise it is wayyyy beneath you :)

stick = poking fun (it is truely a pun in use)
:)
03-09-2006, 09:04 AM
HousERaT

Sorry to hear about your loss mdzcpa. Hopefully you'll be back in the game soon enough.
03-09-2006, 11:13 AM
Leon2ky

Something similar to me happened a couple months ago, fortunately it only took the Processor and board. :(
03-09-2006, 02:18 PM
neologan

What state's your rig in now matey? and what PSU are you going for this time?
03-09-2006, 03:28 PM
[XC] leviathan18

if you want to be sure for the next time

save 200$ and buy a belkin PSU if anything dies is covered by a 250k $ insurance.... best way to protect your rig

and i guess you are getting a bigger psu :)

hope to see you soon at least you have an expensive key chain ( 1000$ fx 60 key chain woot bill gates doesnt eve have one :P )
03-09-2006, 03:46 PM
Dynasty

Quote:

You know... its better to have too much "juice" in your PSU... it wont hurt you and can save a lot of cash...

I think Mike gets the picture about the whole psu thing, can you
be helpful or just keep adding more fuel to the fire. :confused:

So, if my Expert takes out my $1100 FX60, are you going to
jump in and reply with the whole I told you so speech ?

This thread should be more to get facts about the
particualr psu in question, not to slam him for his
mis-fortune. :(
03-09-2006, 04:28 PM
dogsx2

Sometimes it makes one wonder if you should ever post something like what happened to Mike. He does it to try and help others and has to endure a lot of junky posts all the while.

Thanks for posting this Mike, I have learned from it.

fred
03-09-2006, 04:39 PM
mdzcpa

Dynasty and dogsx2:

Thanks for supportive posts. Its a shame that the ones eager to blame me never read my opening post where I made it quite clear that I was not whining or complaining about my hardware casualties, and that I fully understand the risks associated with my actions, and that the thread was not meant to be a PCP&C bash thread.

I also stated that I originally was not intending on posting because I knew that I would catch greif from the "know it alls" and "hind sighters."

But, in loyalty to the community and my fellow OCers here on XS, I thought I'd share what happened. Make no mistake, there are plenty of others running high end SLI rigs on the same PSU. I wanted the story to be taken for what it was worth....nothing more, nothing less.

To push the PSU and expect shutdowns and instabilities is one thing, but to have a PSU crap out and take with it most of the system is quite another. I'm not going to sit here and listen to "well of course, fool, what did you think would happen" because thats simply not true and not fair. If I had posted on the board asking what most folks thought would happen with my set up, most would have replied that if its running fine, its fine. Perhaps I would have heard to expect instabilities or shutdowns. Perhaps even kill the PSU. But I doubt anyone would have predicted a nuclear meltdown because I ran the PSU at 100% load too long.

Well, live and learn. I guess I know better now when to share my experiences and when not to. That said, this thread has run its course. This thread was meant to share information, not invite bashing.

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