Printable View
Quote:
Originally Posted by deception``
well they certainly didnt directly advertise that. but then again, they have guys from OCZ (nothing against OCZ, great guys btw) showing how high they can clock with the DFI. and if memory (no pun intended) serves me right, there were DFI reps on these very pages showing how high they can clock with these boards. Would you call that direct or indirect advertising?
Muzz, the point of question #3 was to show just how irrational this complaint is.
Simply put, it would be foolish for someone to RMA or complain about a failed pipe mod on an x800 Pro VIVO. This is because the VIVO - > XT PE mod was in no way endorsed by manufacturers. So there was a risk with this mod despite the fact that there were some who were successful.
Similarly, the +5 volt jumper has more warnings/red flags attached to it than guaruntees. So in the same fashion as scenario #3, we as enthusiasts bear the risk that use of the jumper could lead to averse affects. Of course, these risks may vary from person to person (board to board), but the fact of the matter is that the warning signs were there.
In my situation, I had a few run-ins with the +5 volt jumper myself. MY OCZ PC 4000 VX began to give me issues past 3.5 volts, but my old-school Mushkin Bh-5 gave me no problems past 3.6 volts. Given this and the fact that I use my system for more than just benchmarking, I decided that it was in my best interests to get off the jumper....so I did. I now have some nicely binned TCCD that suits my needs. It's really that simple.
Don't get me wrong, however; I do recognize that this COULD be an issue, but its best if it is handled in an appropriate manner. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that flooding forums (DFI Street especially) with rants is going to solve anything. I have had close relations with some of the DFI Admins (AG namely) and one thing I learned is that they don't respond too well to flames and/or percieved flames. Anyone who remembers the PcPerspective/AMD forums incident should know exactly what I am talking about.
In short, I think that it is better for people to take a breather and let things play out accordingly. Instead of spending so much time complaining, I would recommend that some of these same members offer their support to people such as bigtoe who are working hard to address the issue.
deception``
Maybe it was a lack of judgement, and he actually told the truth instead of the company line?Quote:
Originally Posted by pershoot
Maybe it was misconstrued, I dunno I wasn't there.
Maybe he has seen/ heard a ton more than you and I regarding these issues?
Just a thought.
we will never know since we weren't there. we can only speak from our own experiences with the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by muzz
There is a very fine line as to what indirect advertising really is.Quote:
Originally Posted by situman
Let's say for example you sold some Mushkin Bh-6 on the forums situman.
You might say something around the lines of "I've had these sticks for xxxx amount of time, and they have ran 240 2-2-2-x @ 3.2 volts in xxx motherboard with no problems." However, you'll most likely include something in your thread along the lines of "YMMV" (Your Mileage Mary Vary for any of you wondering).
Is this not "indirect advertising?"
To some it would be. Despite your abbreviated warning, the fact of the matter is that you have provided potential buyers with results, so they may have an expectation (albeit unjustified perhaps) that those sticks will behave similarly (maybe not identical) under similar/appropriate conditions.
To others it would be a fair sale. They would claim that it goes without question that every person's results could differ. Moreover, they would most likely note that the sale was fair as long as they run in according to their rating. If such a situation were to actually occur, most likely camp #2 would win in the event of a dispute.
Here we can clearly see that indirect advertising is a very relative term, and is also a very poor excuse in many situations ;)
deception``
luckily we can still overvolt our RAM without using the 5v jumper.....
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=61632
....All that is needed for this simple mod is an extra jumper (who doesn't have a dozen jumpers lying around), and a PSU with ajustable rails (like the OCZ Powerstream series...I got the 600watt one today).
BTW deception what "Complaint" are you referring to?
Let me put it this way for folks that aren't paying attention....
Remember Abit?
They used to be great clockers, I will go out on a limb and say the best if comparing 1:1 sales.
Remember Oskar Wu?
Why do you know his name?
Cuz he's the best I know of.
Where does he work now?
Why does he work there?
Targeting Overclockers is why, so hiding behind a veil will do no good, this board WAS targetted at the enthusiast community, and it did very well until folks started having issues with dead hardware and cold boot issues.
I'm NOT trying to hang anybody, this stuff happens, all I want is a solid answer to the questions most folks are asking.
What to do now.
It seems we have an answer already, but are we CERTAIN thats the end of it?
I am aware they are busy doing other things, so I will personally will wait for an answer.
NP here, but the issues SHOULD be discussed, as that is one of the reasons I joined ANY forums in the first place.
End users ARE the BEST for info as long as you are aware of what is what.
Peace
m
That's right. My personal guess is, they pretty much have chosen the silence strategy so that to avoid the flames which might start if they started to speak on it. However a comment "guys, please, stay cool, we're working on it right now even at midnight" would be just a wise strategical decision, otherwise they pretty much make the soil for growing rumors, speculations, anger and frustration.Quote:
Originally Posted by deception``
I hope that they have the will to acknowledge that the problem exists (of course only IF it really is there). Because if Frank Wong was really saying what is posted he said, then every DFI user should be aware of not using the jumper until a fix has been brought out - and such an info should come straight from DFI as the manufacturer.
Much of that I agree with Muzz, let's do the typical rundown.
1. I agree 200% that the DFI boards are targeted specifically to enthusiasts. Based on this, you and I should both agree with my earlier comment that enthusiasts have risks that they must bear. We can try to control some variables as much as possible (such as heat, timings, voltage, power, etc), but somethings simply cannot be accounted for. Despite this fact, a trade-off between risk and return must be recognized. It's no different no matter what you're doing. Someone running Phase or LN2 has the potential for extremely high clocks, but they could run into other issues such as poor mounting or condensation. Of course this is but a small example, but it goes to show that no overclocker can "have his/her cake and eat it too." The risks only increase as we look for further and further gains in performance.
2. I also agree that issues (including this one) should be discussed. However, there is a fine line between discussions and rants, and it has been crossed several times on several forums (not naming any names directly). This is what I believe does not contribute to the issue at hand. Therefore, I apologize if I have made it seem like I wish to put a muzzle on the problem. Like you, I recognize that many things can be learned from the end user themselves, so I have no complaints on this one :)
deception``
Hey guys. The solution and full discussion of the END-USER side of things can be found in these 2 topics.....
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=61632
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d=1#post872553
It appears there is not going to be any discussion, at least from the DFI street reps side:
Let's hope the bold text (was bold in the original post as well) indicates we'll have some answers soon ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry_Games @ dfi-street
Well said. I think that DFI could certainly benefit from issuing an amicable statement explaining that they are looking at the issue. Unfortunately, I think they left that approach behind when they left PcPerspective :slapass:Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlobber
Also, I question the validity of the Frank Wong "statement." Remember when everyone had a different launch date for the NF4 motherboards from various DFI Tech Support Representatives? Look at how off many of those claims were now :stick: I think that it's best that we hear the news from the horse's mouth instead.
deception``
As I stated above we ARE aware of these things ( at least most of us that are paying attention are).Quote:
Originally Posted by Snark42
Thanks for the links for folks that weren't aware of them.
I'll stick a bit onto this........... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by deception``
PC2700 DDR333 Rams with BH-6 chips onboard and of caurse on a DFI NF4-SLI D mobo........ :D
Search before you post...... ;)
http://www.thelab.gr/images/Hipro5/A...288MHz_png.png
http://www.thelab.gr/images/Hipro5/A...91_1_1_jpg.jpg
P.S........Ohhh.........OK ........Vdimm was provided not by the 5V jumper though but by the DDR Maximizer......... :)
Hipro5 that statement was not meant to say that it is impossible. Most of us Bh-5/Bh-6 users are aware of just how well those sticks can clock regardless of their speed bin. All I was saying is that it would be moot to complain if they did not hit a speed that they are otherwise rated for.
deception``
Hipro
We have tested the board with the booster also and it does clock better. Interesting to see your booster has some good results.
Maybe this could be the answer, use a booster/maximiser and leave the jumper on 3.3V line?
Am I the only one to notice, that folks with "old school" BH-5 DO NOT have this problem ???
Whats that?Quote:
Originally Posted by bachus_anonym
Dead boards?
... dying RAM or, as it's said, "probs" with 5v jumper...
One question............For the guys blaming Ram modules.........HOW many of you have you heard that VX and Twinmos Rams were been burned down into an INTEL rig?........DON'T blame the Ram modules!.........If 100 died in DFI mobo , 1 or 2 died in an Intel mobo........So don't blame Ram modules.......and don't say that on an Intel rig are not working in their limits coz that's NOT true........Even Intel guys feed them with 3.6Vdimm+...... ;)
As most of you know, I'm an Intel guy........I have worked occasionally with AMD rigs and I WASN'T satisfied at all.......TILL I worked with the DFI NF4-SLI D mobo......This was the FIRST AMD mobo that worked STABLE and UN-DIE-ABLE for me with WHATEVER I've done to it........and believe me, I've torture it a LOT........ :D
The fact is that something is going on, but what?.......I hope DFI and us find a cure to this problem......... ;)
I agree! :)Quote:
I think the blame for most board failures from running the 5v rail can be placed on user error, lack of cooling, or lack of knowledge. The very the idea of running 4v on your memory should be enough of a risk to alarm someone to the idea that this might cause hardware failures and damage, and as such should be considered done at your own risk ! This is common sense stuff if you ask me.
:toast: :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
The mobo I had and also esdee's mobo where fed with the DDR Maximizer........We have tested BH-6 , BH-5 and UTT Ram chips up to 3.9Vdimm.......We didn't encode any problem....... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtoe
P.S. It's not a Booster........It's a Maximizer....... ;) :D :toast:
Exactly, and since it would be hard to say what exactly the contex was since it was not by email but by a verbal communication that was not transcripted at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by pershoot
But the point of the matter is some have problems, some dont. I don't think its as clear cut as pointing the fingure at any one point (nor the users)
I don't. Many of us, including me, lost RAM while using the 5v feed even though we were only using 3.2volts and have active cooling (I had 2x80mm fans running directly on them. This is not on the user end as much as it is a glitch with the 5v feed.Quote:
Originally Posted by I.L.F. 3004