macci
My friend had an unlocked Palomino which WOULD NOT do 200 FSB @ whatever multiplier. Maybe an isolated incident, though.
ALL
Btw, who says Dothan has a _short_ pipeline? 15 stages at least.
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macci
My friend had an unlocked Palomino which WOULD NOT do 200 FSB @ whatever multiplier. Maybe an isolated incident, though.
ALL
Btw, who says Dothan has a _short_ pipeline? 15 stages at least.
Guys, stop all the speculation. Those of us who HAVE Dothans see that mem b/w makes a HUGE difference with them. These chips are strangled and would be FX - competition with more mem b/w. Even in 3dmark 2001, the Dothan puts up wicked system based scores...
Like I said earlier, a simple chipset change (like Granite Bay of lore) would make the difference.
Well, thats a P4 for you. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by macci
I've heard... and often... that the P4EE cache is not inclusive, and that its actual maximum cache capacity is 2.0MB. I'll look for a link sometime.
Meanwhile you can search for a non-cursed FX-55. ;)
*edit*
Eintausend!
didn't mention anything bout die size at all. As for fsb, as you can clearly see from increase in fsb the cpu works more efficiently, always has and will do as it can flood the cpu with work in basic terms. The issue was that under 200Mhz fsb i believe the cpu that was destined to be 20W when it was released ran at 27W or something and wasn't entirely stable, which should tell you something(remember this is on release of dothan which is a while ago now and was probably the main issue being worked on).
AS for fsb being determined by the cpu, its a case of how a cpu works rather than anything else. as for bandwidth being needed, as with most cpu's thats the case, until we see dual channel setup no one can really say what will happen. AS i tried to hint at, even a ath xp which isn't as good as the dothan got not a huge, but a noticeable boost in benchmarks upping fsb to a 133/166 ratio. Because even on the best chipset basic efficiency of a mem controller can't ever be 100%, worlds not like that, on a ath xp the extra speed on the mem while messing with the pattern of communication just caused it all to work better together. For all we know its simply a case of that, or one of many possibilities. We will have to see if/when it happens.
As for centrino, well you can pretty much put one guy on ensuring people remember to add wireless into the laptop, everyone else works on the chipset and cpu's- most of them being on cpu. IIRC the team is around a 1/3 the size of the p4 team. P4 design is a trial and error design, they literally spend most of the time in design moving transistor by transistor till it all works together, as their netburst architechture is so complex. i'll try to find a few good articles that explain that better than i did.
TBH i haven't read as much as i have on dothan as other cpu's, for instance, is the connection from cache to cpu 4x fsb style connection, or is it mem to cache? from what i understand for a cpu to be this low the actual processing parts, none cache parts have to be unbelieveable simple to not waste energy, which would make cache, amount and efficiency of cache/chipset contact so important.
ANother thing that pops up in my speculation radar is this. Intel are moving to a advertising stratagy of "more fsb rocks, who needs more Mhz anymore now we can't get anymore?" , if infact dothan could be that much better with higher fsb, wouldn't it make sense to whack up fsb right now on a chipset they already have so they can stretch out dothan clock bumps much further, make it last longer and make yeilds better.
True, but here's the deal. Intel has been pushing P4's on DELL, et al. forever now and HOW in the world will they come back and say, "Ermmmm.... we've decided to put our notebook chip into desktop rigs because it's a lot faster and consumes less power"Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmaster
Hehehe... the reaction would be, "You freekin' morons... then wtf have you been pushing on us for the past few years?"
c
Exactly.....that's the main reason why Intel is not bringing the Dothan to desktop. They've put so much money and time for the Dothan into being a mobile chip that they don't want to mess that all up by bringing it to the desktop. It's all about the centrino technology.....I mean how many people actually know that centrino is the wireless technology and not the processor? People would go from 800fsb high speed P4's to low speed lower FSB Dothan and it's faster and more money? I think Intel is just trying to fool us......Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
yup, theres no way intel can back away from p4 till lets see, basically they've just forced everyone mobo manu's, mem makers, oem's, the dells to go towards 775, ddr2 and prescott. THey can't kill it that quickly, thats why that will be there main thing till at least a year after 775 was available, its just the way stuff works. Dothan will have to go ddr2 and ramp up to equal fsb's, chipset functionality as p4 stuff. Thats why prescott will go dual core because they will have to too be able to compete with amd dual core stuff, which extends p4 even further. 2006 till dothan dual core main cpu stuff IMHO.
But still, right now it would be cheaper and easier for intel to not release new cores of dothan and ramp up fsb, if they could, IE instead of a smaller yeild 2.4Ghz they could keep it at 2Ghz and go to 200Mhz, then 266Mhz, and ddr2 and so on, it would be cheaper, bolster their "fsb rocks Mhz doesn't" new slant on things, and increase the time they can release the dothan speed bumps in, can't see a reason not to do it unless there are some kinda issues, which were around when first dothans came out.
my whole point here(just going by neo's response and what i think people think i'm saying) is that ignoring dothan going to desktop, increasing fsb and keeping lower speeds would make perfect sense right now for intel, so you have to think why they aren't.
Thing is, the p-M's power was clearly known by intel before 775 stuff was released. Even at lower fsb's canceling 775 stuff, waiting a few extra months and starting to get P-M at 2Ghz speeds into desktops would have made more sense than commiting themselves to a overheating, motherboard stressing complete product cycle, someone made a big boo boo there- BIG. Not only are they having to keep people working on increasing p4 speed, but they've now absolutely got to go dual core prescott too, which is just ridiculous.
We all know what they should do but it really sux that we cannot do anything about it. Just be happy that we have the knowledge to know what is good and what is worth it's money. I know that I won't be buying an Intel processor for a long time with all the garbage they are releasing now....except if they change what they are doing now and work on the Dothan....then I might think about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmaster
There's a thread with an Alviso-chipset Dothan board in the Intel section. It looks really awesome - DDR2 + PCI-E. I just wish we had some idea of how long it would be before they come into production.
Well they delayed it til early 2005 or so they say. They wanted them to come out in 2004 but problems arose and yada yada yada. DDR2 and PCI-E are a must because everyone is now seeing DDR2 and PCI-E and say well why can't my laptop have those features. WHY AM I GETTING RIPPED OFF? So just hopefully they'll come out soon and then we can see maybe some well deserved life out of these dothans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade00
Hallowed
Actually, the effective cache size is 2 - .5 so around 1.5 mb. It is inclusive.
Shade00
What's so awesome about DDR-II?
Ivan: DDR2 should provide some tangible bandwidth increases. I'm also pleased to see that PCI-E will be available for graphics.
Shade00
TCCD @ "600" 7-3-3-2.5 will own DDR-II even at "800" probably.
Well, I also hope that the Alviso chipset will bring higher FSB capability for the Dothans.
There is DDR2 that will do tight timings, i.e. 3-2-2, and that would definitely outperform the TCCD.
http://img153.exs.cx/img153/4091/axpvsdothan9oq.jpg
Is it just me, or does that dothan look like an AXP with a quad pumped fsb and SSE2? LOL! :p:
Oh the side effects of boredom.... :toast:
dippyskoodlez
Sandra is the dumbest benchmark in the world. In 3dmark2001, Dothan would slaughter Athlon XP at same clockspeeds.
If nobody was buying P4s, there might be some incentive for Intel to spend the money to develope the Dothan into a desktop platform. Cant see that happening though. Its all about the bottom line for Intel.
And best of all....
they OC well... even on AIR and a NorthBridge cooler......on the CPU. Try that with an A64, lol.....
edit, I mean the CPU is cooled with a northbridge cooler :D
Does your heatsink get hot? I wish I could put that chip in my laptop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IvanAndreevich
I know, I just find it funny... same at each speed, just super pumped FSB...
Makes me wonder what an axp would do with a quad pumped fsb. :slobber:
dippyskoodlez
>>Makes me wonder what an axp would do with a quad pumped fsb.
Then look at A64 - HyperTransport is a better bus than Intel's.
2500+ #1 - Ran extremely stable at 10*200MHz with a core voltage of 1.7v.Quote:
Originally Posted by macci
2500+ #2 - Ran stable at 10*200MHz with a core voltage of 1.85v. Notice I did not use he word "extremely". If left running for a period of 15 to 18 hours, the system would finally crash to the desktop.
2500+ #3 - Would not run 200MHz FSB at all, no matter the voltage
linkie : http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDUz
does this mean the maxmem 104 tweak does more bad then good to a P4 or dothan system?Quote:
Originally Posted by macci
charlie, what's the max you have gotten that chip Prime stable? Also, what about the max fsb on that new board? :confused: