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HaLDoL
Say hello to 44.03... I didn't use that cheater's friend... With 53.03 137.3 is enough:)
Well, 590/950 + P4EE@4.27 (not maxed out, but that was enough) = 25075 points. Probably that's the best demonstration that there is no performance drop at that clocks... :)
I did a voltmod on my eVGA 5900XT. What temps should I stay under?
I have a Vantec Iceberq4 copper hsf with shin etsu G751. At 1.67v it hit about 80c only running just the game1 and nature test once in 3dmark2k1. I'm assuming thats too high. Right now it's 1.5v and hits about 72c while stress testing. I'm just wondering what other ppl are seeing as max temps?
-Ben
Well, I have an Innovatek waterblock on it, and when I try to stress the card @ 1.65v with a windowed UT2004, I display the temps too in the display properties panel, it doesn't get above 45c :)
Still I wouldn't like any temp above 60c.
It's supposed to throttle down @ 140c according to the display properties, but I think that's a load of crap... come on 140c
How are you reading the temperature on them?
I daren't put a thermal probe anywhere near the core (it's very thin, and I don't want to get in the way of the waterblock), and a thermal probe on the back of the card. over the core, reads WAY too low.
The 5900XTs don't have thermal sensors on them, do they?
BTW, for those interested....
I'm now running 1.65 vCore....in 2d mode!
Now, I know what y'all are thinking right now. "My god, he's mad! He's going to kill us all!" But, not so!
I've found that the safe/2d/3d mode switch is based EXCLUSIVELY on temperature. Nothing else. Increasing voltage has no effect, increasing or decrease clock has no effect - nothing. The ONLY thing that changes it is the temperature.
And, it seems to do the 2d/3d switch at 40C. Wonder if that '140C' was just a typo? Hmmm....
Anyway, I have the card on my water loop to my CPU...which basically idles at 40C, so the GPU never drops below that.
As a result....my card NEVER goes into 3d mode!
So, I just cranked the voltage while in 2d mode, cranked the clocks, and here ya go. A 3dMark03 score of over 7000 with a 5900XT.
Of course, if 3d mode ever DOES somehow turn on....my cards toast. So....
I monitor the temps using Rivatuner It plots a line graph so I can see how high it gets. It uses the temp sensors on the card, ambient and core. I'm probably not going to go over 1.55v I don't think. The GPU gets pretty hot and it's not direct die-heatsink contact so I don't want it too hot. On the other hand, the throttling that is built in works pretty well. I just wonder how if it compensates enough when vgpu is raised.
XanderF: have you flashed your card witha different bios? I remember hearing someone say that their bios modded card didn't change voltages. You're saying that your volts stays the same no matter what? Doesn't your gpu clock speed raise to the "3D" setting
I think the driver knows it's entering 3D mode and adjusts voltage and clock speed.
Normally, it should.Quote:
I think the driver knows it's entering 3D mode and adjusts voltage and clock speed.
But, what I'm saying is, it never does.
I have a volt-meter attached to my card, and I spent a whole day at different clocks and voltages, just watching it.
It goes from 'safe mode' to '2d' just fine, but it doesn't go to 3d if the CPU is over 40C (haven't figured out how to measure the GPU yet). It just never does....period. If I let my computer cool down, and boot it up with no overclock, it will go into 3d mode okay, but with the heat the CPU generates now, it won't. It just stays in 2d mode the entire time windows is loaded.
So, I just adjusted the voltage there!
Tried, didn't work. No effect using any different BIOS.Quote:
have you flashed your card witha different bios? I remember hearing someone say that their bios modded card didn't change voltages.
Ah, then this card must really not have one. Rivatuner doesn't show anything for the temperatures.Quote:
I monitor the temps using Rivatuner It plots a line graph so I can see how high it gets. It uses the temp sensors on the card, ambient and core.
Wonder how it works clock throttling, then, given that it is obivously temperature related?
Most of the cards do :) :toast:Quote:
Originally posted by XanderF
How are you reading the temperature on them?
The 5900XTs don't have thermal sensors on them, do they?
You're really putting your card in danger, you realize that?Quote:
Originally posted by XanderF
BTW, for those interested....
I'm now running 1.65 vCore....in 2d mode!
Now, I know what y'all are thinking right now. "My god, he's mad! He's going to kill us all!" But, not so!
I've found that the safe/2d/3d mode switch is based EXCLUSIVELY on temperature. Nothing else. Increasing voltage has no effect, increasing or decrease clock has no effect - nothing. The ONLY thing that changes it is the temperature.
And, it seems to do the 2d/3d switch at 40C. Wonder if that '140C' was just a typo? Hmmm....
Anyway, I have the card on my water loop to my CPU...which basically idles at 40C, so the GPU never drops below that.
As a result....my card NEVER goes into 3d mode!
So, I just cranked the voltage while in 2d mode, cranked the clocks, and here ya go. A 3dMark03 score of over 7000 with a 5900XT.
Of course, if 3d mode ever DOES somehow turn on....my cards toast. So....
But that's what I like though, this is XTREMESYSTEMS.ORG :thumbsup: :toast:
Quote:
Originally posted by HaLDoL
Sure he can bench at 605, I can bench at 615 but I got the best scores at lower frequencies, 606 (3dmark03) and 580 (3dmark 2001).
I read somewhere that due to thermal throttling, the core frequency falls back to 2D speeds. A possible fix would be setting your 2D speeds as high as your 3D speeds but as your 2D setting uses 0.2V less than in 3D, that would be very hard to accomplish.
The thermal throttling mode runs at VGPU of 1.3v and speed of 376.7MHz, and has nothing to do with 2D mode.
if your card never goes into 3D mode then the performance must be extremely poor as 2D runs only at 300MHz ? And problem must be exclusive to you as never heard of anybody's card refusing to go into 3D ?Quote:
Originally posted by XanderF
BTW, for those interested....
I'm now running 1.65 vCore....in 2d mode!
Now, I know what y'all are thinking right now. "My god, he's mad! He's going to kill us all!" But, not so!
I've found that the safe/2d/3d mode switch is based EXCLUSIVELY on temperature. Nothing else. Increasing voltage has no effect, increasing or decrease clock has no effect - nothing. The ONLY thing that changes it is the temperature.
And, it seems to do the 2d/3d switch at 40C. Wonder if that '140C' was just a typo? Hmmm....
Anyway, I have the card on my water loop to my CPU...which basically idles at 40C, so the GPU never drops below that.
As a result....my card NEVER goes into 3d mode!
So, I just cranked the voltage while in 2d mode, cranked the clocks, and here ya go. A 3dMark03 score of over 7000 with a 5900XT.
Of course, if 3d mode ever DOES somehow turn on....my cards toast. So....
My tests prove otherwise.
And, in any case, there are several steps of 'thermally throttled' speeds.
No, as noted, I overclocked my 2D mode.Quote:
if your card never goes into 3D mode then the performance must be extremely poor as 2D runs only at 300MHz ?
See my 3dMark03 score of 7012. Not bad, eh?
The normal throttling down mode is mean't as a 3D function, and if your card has sensors, and you look at core and memory speeds using rivatuner, you will see that thermal throttling drops speed down from whatever overclocked speed you set to an interim mode of 376.7MHz, which lasts for approx 20 seconds. Most easily viewed by overclocking with rivatuner, which does a stress test where it prematurely triggers the throttling mode and thus shows the dropdown from 3D to interim throttling mode for 20 secs and then on to 2d mode. Another important thing this tells you is, if overclocking with rivatuner then you must reboot to clear the prematurely triggered throttling mode. Because once triggered, it won't go away untill you do !Quote:
Originally posted by XanderF
My tests prove otherwise.
And, in any case, there are several steps of 'thermally throttled' speeds.
No, as noted, I overclocked my 2D mode.
See my 3dMark03 score of 7012. Not bad, eh?
the only card and hence bios I know that doesn't suffer from any throttling problem is the ASUS5950u, as it always operates in 3D and doesn't have any throttling modes !
EDIT:
and by the way, for overclocked 2D, your score is excellent !
That's putting it mildly - I'm #9 on the ORB with a 5900XT paired with ANY CPU. Just do a search on '5900XT' as the graphics chipset, and specify no other criteria. There I am, #9.Quote:
and by the way, for overclocked 2D, your score is excellent !
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2209672
542/833 1.63v GPU
Troll's Lair is the only test my card doesn't like most of the time.
All games run fine but Troll's Lair gives fullscreen blockies after the troll throws the chair at the girl.
Most likely this is due to the fact that my Club3D card has the XFX bios... so it's 99.9% correct.
I'm keeping the XFX bios though, since all games run well and I can run 800 memory artifact free, something that's not possible with the Club3D bios...
I agree with you, thats why I said your XT scores were excellent !Quote:
Originally posted by XanderF
That's putting it mildly - I'm #9 on the ORB with a 5900XT paired with ANY CPU. Just do a search on '5900XT' as the graphics chipset, and specify no other criteria. There I am, #9.
not sure how meaningful high scores are when achieved through voltmods and overclocking. ? My argument being that sticking your card in liquid nitrogen will probably enable a massive increase in scores. In fact stick your whole computer in the same liquid nitrogen and overclock everything and you will very quickly take first place for a XT based setup.
Don't get me wrong, I like to read about these extreme activities, and therefore I'm glad there are people like you bending all the rules, but for the moment am happy with my 5900 flashed to a 5950u score of 6.5K ! As it has got to last me for some time to come !
have you tried flashing your card with a higher level bios, like the 5950u.Quote:
Originally posted by Garrett
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2209672
542/833 1.63v GPU
Troll's Lair is the only test my card doesn't like most of the time.
All games run fine but Troll's Lair gives fullscreen blockies after the troll throws the chair at the girl.
Most likely this is due to the fact that my Club3D card has the XFX bios... so it's 99.9% correct.
I'm keeping the XFX bios though, since all games run well and I can run 800 memory artifact free, something that's not possible with the Club3D bios...
Only reason I ask, is because the early club3D XT cards actually used a modified 5900nu bios and therefore are more able to take a 5950 bios flash than a true more recent XT cards.
I've tried various BIOSes, none of them work(ed) correctly.Quote:
Originally posted by jimmor
have you tried flashing your card with a higher level bios, like the 5950u.
Only reason I ask, is because the early club3D XT cards actually used a modified 5900nu bios and therefore are more able to take a 5950 bios flash than a true more recent XT cards.
To be honest... flashing a 5950u BIOS isn't a very good idea IMO (please DO correct me if I'm wrong) because it would set the memory to 950 Mhz right?
It's simply not able to go that high so I won't dare to kill it immediately :eek:
I could be wrong though, but the 5900 non ultra BIOSes I've tried don't work well here :(
you are not wrong, a standard 5950u bios will set stock memory speed at 950MHz. And this level is way beyond the capabilities of normal XT 2.8ns memory. That is why I modified some at lower stock memory speed of 300/450/800 and made them available for XT users to try. But with no guarantees of success as some XT type cards just can't deal with 5950u bios's.Quote:
Originally posted by Garrett
I've tried various BIOSes, none of them work(ed) correctly.
To be honest... flashing a 5950u BIOS isn't a very good idea IMO (please DO correct me if I'm wrong) because it would set the memory to 950 Mhz right?
It's simply not able to go that high so I won't dare to kill it immediately :eek:
I could be wrong though, but the 5900 non ultra BIOSes I've tried don't work well here :(
the 5900nu, 5900u and 5950u all share same original card and bios design, and therefore it is easy and successful to flash one to another's performance level, when we ignore the fact that some use 128Mb and others 256Mb memory.
early XT bios's were based on standard 5900nu bios's, and as such were also more able to flash to a 5950u. Unfortunately newer XT type cards use more unique bios's, which are no longer enough compatible to ensure success with 5950u flash.
It may be that Nvidia, when designing the newer XT's deliberately made them unique in order to specifically stop people flashing them to a higher spec, like has happened with many 5900nu owners. In fact I'm sure they are well aware that people are scouring the internet as we speak to find any old stock of 5900nu cards. Right now, they are the best bang per buck version you can get, and totally because you can flash it at no extra cost to a 5950u performance level, and beyond if wanted!
Hmmm very interesting stuff you mention here...Quote:
Originally posted by jimmor
you are not wrong, a standard 5950u bios will set stock memory speed at 950MHz. And this level is way beyond the capabilities of normal XT 2.8ns memory. That is why I modified some at lower stock memory speed of 300/450/800 and made them available for XT users to try. But with no guarantees of success as some XT type cards just can't deal with 5950u bios's.
the 5900nu, 5900u and 5950u all share same original card and bios design, and therefore it is easy and successful to flash one to another's performance level, when we ignore the fact that some use 128Mb and others 256Mb memory.
early XT bios's were based on standard 5900nu bios's, and as such were also more able to flash to a 5950u. Unfortunately newer XT type cards use more unique bios's, which are no longer enough compatible to ensure success with 5950u flash.
It may be that Nvidia, when designing the newer XT's deliberately made them unique in order to specifically stop people flashing them to a higher spec, like has happened with many 5900nu owners. In fact I'm sure they are well aware that people are scouring the internet as we speak to find any old stock of 5900nu cards. Right now, they are the best bang per buck version you can get, and totally because you can flash it at no extra cost to a 5950u performance level, and beyond if wanted!
If I do remember correctly, I think I was one of the first here in The Netherlands to buy the 5900XT card...
And you modify BIOSes?
Now it gets attractive... let's hear more about that :thumbsup:
Not sure I follow why they wouldn't be?Quote:
Originally posted by jimmor
not sure how meaningful high scores are when achieved through voltmods and overclocking. ?
This IS exactly how I play may games - my 3dMark03 run was completely artifact-free. This is the core and memory clock, and voltages, I run ALL my programs in.
So...yeah, it's meaningful. Allows me to run 4x anti-aliasing in games where 2x was only possible before. Allows me to run games at my LCD's native 1280x1024 resolution instead of having to drop down to the disproportioned 1024x768.
It's all good by me!
(As to the bios flash question - I know it wasn't directed at me - but I've tried it, as well. No good. I actually got the same results Macci did earlier in this thread. It would POST looking just fine, but windows could not initialize the display adapter, so I got a really fun looking 320x240 4-bit color logon screen and desktop. Flashing it back to my old bios - BE SURE TO BACK IT UP! - fixed the problem, though. Too bad, as I have 2.5ns ram. With the right voltage and timings, 950 SHOULD have been achievable. As it is, the timings on my ram are WAY too tight, and I can't get it over 820 without some artifacts, even at 3.4v.)
:eek:Quote:
AMD Athlon XP-M Mobile 2400+ @ 11x241=2651Mhz @ 2.15v
Wow. What kind of cooling and temps do you get?!?
my point on the whether scores were meaningful or not when derived by shall we say cheating, is as I said; the final winner will be the person who is the first to put his computer in liquid nitrogen and then overclock and voltmod the hell out of it. !Quote:
Originally posted by XanderF
Not sure I follow why they wouldn't be?
This IS exactly how I play may games - my 3dMark03 run was completely artifact-free. This is the core and memory clock, and voltages, I run ALL my programs in.
So...yeah, it's meaningful. Allows me to run 4x anti-aliasing in games where 2x was only possible before. Allows me to run games at my LCD's native 1280x1024 resolution instead of having to drop down to the disproportioned 1024x768.
It's all good by me!
(As to the bios flash question - I know it wasn't directed at me - but I've tried it, as well. No good. I actually got the same results Macci did earlier in this thread. It would POST looking just fine, but windows could not initialize the display adapter, so I got a really fun looking 320x240 4-bit color logon screen and desktop. Flashing it back to my old bios - BE SURE TO BACK IT UP! - fixed the problem, though. Too bad, as I have 2.5ns ram. With the right voltage and timings, 950 SHOULD have been achievable. As it is, the timings on my ram are WAY too tight, and I can't get it over 820 without some artifacts, even at 3.4v.)
:eek:
Wow. What kind of cooling and temps do you get?!?
your point in doing it to give much better usable performance, rather than just for scores battling, I totally agree with.
In my much smaller and more careful way, I am always trying to improve my setups performance at as little cost as possible. which is why, although I generally don't agree with scores battling, I applaude anybody who keeps pushing the bounderies on what is possible. ?
On bios flashing; If you have a genuine, lets call it second generation, XT type card, then the only bios you can flash your card with is another XT type bios. And this has actually proven to be a sensible move for some. Just look at what is happening at the guru forum. Some manufacturers make bios's that give better performance sometimes just depending on type and ns rating of memory chips fitted. with your existing cards bios, even if you only mod it with the latency values used by a 5950u, you will probably be able to overclock higher. Whether more performance or just more stability is achieved can only be determined if you do it and test it. Also one of the biggest problems under investigation with the 5900 type card is with throttling down, when under "stress". Even overclocking with rivatuner causes premature triggering of the throttling down mode. Which means you must reboot after overclocking with riva in order to reset throttling mode to off. The main point however is that the throttling mode kills performance instantly as it drops the core speed down to approx 376MHz for approx 20 secs when triggered.
people, myself included, have been modifying bios's for a long time using whatever appropriate bios editors were available. For Nvidia bios's, and least up to the GF4Ti series, a program called X-Bios allows speed and other changes to be entered in special menu's or by using the in-built hex editor. Unfortunately FX bios's are not properly supported by the X-bios program. Its development ceased too early. Nowadays therefore you can modify the Nvidia bios's by using a hex editor only, using bits and pieces gained from peoples experiences. Known changes include changing stock speeds, volts and memory latencies and more recently looking at disabling the throttling down mode. But it is just bits and pieces. Nobody to my knowledge has yet produced any documentation detailing all that is possible. most of this is ongoing in the guru forum.Quote:
Originally posted by Garrett
Hmmm very interesting stuff you mention here...
If I do remember correctly, I think I was one of the first here in The Netherlands to buy the 5900XT card...
And you modify BIOSes?
Now it gets attractive... let's hear more about that :thumbsup:
Hehe... well it's more the overclock I CAN obtain, I don't run it all the time you see.
I have a Maze4 waterblock and it climbs up to 50C after 10 minutes stressing :D
So for 24/7 use I take 12x200=2400Mhz @ 1.8v :)
I don't think it's very healthy for the cpu to run 2.15v all the time... :eek: :eek:
PS I'm thinking of buying a Point of View GF4 XP that will do 310/660 with standard cooling and throw the voltmods on... I can get it fairly cheap and then try to get nice benchmark scores :D
I can sell the 5900XT as well and then I'll get myself the Ati Radeon 9800Pro and vmod that as well :D
It simply has a lot more potential than the 5900XT....
But what is triggering it? I think it's like XanderF says temperature related.Quote:
Originally posted by jimmor
The thermal throttling mode runs at VGPU of 1.3v and speed of 376.7MHz, and has nothing to do with 2D mode.
Well I have used one of Jimmor's no throttle moded bios and it really works. Absolutely no more throtteling even under extreme stress and heat.