I;m working on getting some GTX 560 Ti 2GB cards to put this to bed once and for all.
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I;m working on getting some GTX 560 Ti 2GB cards to put this to bed once and for all.
Just did some search and someone reported something on the other side, which is GTX560 Ti 2GB can use around 1500MB in BF3, probably with a different version of driver:Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
http://www.overclock.net/t/1155261/e...#post_15509076
This is different from what I saw on another forum, which might have used non-vram-hungry scenes.
I might be wrong but my initial guess would be the GTX560 Ti 2GB SLI beats the GTX560 Ti 1GB SLI by a considerable margin in these games while still being able to maintain a playable framerate at max settings: BF3, Crysis 2, Metro 2033, Shogun 2, if the most vram-hungry scenes are used in each game, and if the 2GB cards can really utilize the extra vram just like the GTX580s.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Just a kind note: Shogun 2 requires script override to really enable high AA and max settings for cards with small vram, which I believe you might have noticed already: http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...LY-using-Ultra. Even a GTX580 1.5GB can get the image quality downgraded in stealth. According to my tests, NTFS privilege tweaking might be required to prevent the game engine from reverting the modification to the script file (for vram override).
For Metro 2033, it is important to use both MSAA 4X and Advanced DOF enabled at the same time.
Still I insist that "frametime analysis" is required to identify lag spikes / stuttering due to minor vram shortage that is often impossible to be observed from average fps or adhoc min fps. One tricky part is how to minimise noise introduced by other factors, such like microstuttering due to AFR, the weakness of smoothness of AMD cards and mid-ranged NVIDIA cards. The other tricky part is how to reproduce test cases where thrashing can happen with a higher probability, e.g. spin quickly, zoom in sniper scope, scene cuts / camera switches etc.
I bet skyrim also would be a contender, atleast with mods/texture packs.
I appreciate your effort, but I doubt it would work :) Whichever side you pick, the other side would always be able to find weakness to question and attack, citing evidence from reviews supporting their side, and this is why such war will never end, and it can date back to S3 ViRGE 2MB vs 4MB and perhaps even before that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Reminds me of Voodoo 2 8mb & 12mb vs 16mb banshee..
Awesome, looking forward to it!Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
What exactly are you trying to make from those benchmarks?Quote:
Originally Posted by cx-ray
That is just a normal GTX 560 Ti 2Win, they say on the first page that each core has access to 1GB of VRAM.
Unless you're referring to it outperforming a single GTX 580 that has 1.5GB of VRAM, which certainly seems to suggest that either: A) more VRAM doesn't matter unless the card can address it quickly enough, or B) Metro 2033 doesn't utilize more than 1GB of VRAM.
Thanks for the effort, I cant wait to see your results.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Please include at least 8 Gb ram so that Vram info being offloaded into shared ram does not hamper the results of the 1 Gb cards by reducing available system ram too much.
So you were wrong yet another time ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper_sung
Its ok, I understand that you even stated yourself that you are not very good at video cards :p
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1171724
No, its not. What games are you going to use? Are you going to install any texture packs?Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Like I said Fallout 3 with the popular texture pack will stutter when when there isn't enough vram.
Posting a BF3 bench doesn't really tell up much about this issue. Conventional benchmarks aren't going to prove that there is no benefit from more vram at 1080p in any circumstance, I'm sorry. I like your benchmarking practices too.
Wow runs smoother on a ssd. Is that going to show up in a benchmark? I'm not so sure of that.
C'mon this thread is getting insane. I understand some of you are trying to save face here, or you just don't know.
The 560ti 2win is vram limited.
Here is BF3 @ 1680x1050 "Ultra Preset" (nothing else tweaked) rush, canals, and my two 460se 1gb in SLI.
I ALT+TAB'ed out of the game as soon as the lag spikes started and took this screen cap.
Notice how the GPU utilization drops when the vram is allocated to the max 1000.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...zz/limited.jpg
This is what causes the lag spikes. The GPU/s are starved!
My 460se's in SLI can run the game at ultra ~60fps until the vram is full, then its lag spike heaven
Wow, and only 1680x1050 resolution, i didnt expect that. But thank you, this is exactly what i want to avoid with 2gb per gpu instead of only 1.
NVM...I had a brainfart. I was thinking of 2GB per GPU card versus 1GB 560 in SLI comparisonQuote:
Originally Posted by ExodusC
Thank you for your honesty. This is exactly what I'm talking about, i.e. the drop of GPU usage during vram shortage, causing lag spikes / stuttering.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyNutz
It all depends on the scenes picked for the review. If the reviewer wants to support 1GB vram per GPU then just pick some light scenes such like "Go Hunting"; if the reviewer wants to admit that 1GB vram per GPU is no longer always sufficient for SLI then just pick some complicated scenes, such like 64-player maps.
Yep if your planning on playing new (such as bf3) and/or future games at max (i.e. ultra) then 1gb SLI, or CF is a complete wast of money. You need cards with >1gb vram.Quote:
Originally Posted by eXa
Sorry but no. Your system only has 4 Gb ram. Your lag spikes are occurring because excess Vram is being stored into the shared ram instead, which vastly reduces your amount of available system ram.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyNutz
Those lag spikes can be eliminated in two ways:
- GPUs with 2 Gb Vram
- Upgrading your system ram to at least 8 Gb.
Users of 1 Gb GTX 560s in SLI do not report lag issues in BF3, Metro, or any other modern game with sufficient system ram for both normal ram use and shared ram (minimum of 8 Gb system ram, which can be had for <£30).
If you actually bothered to upgrade your system ram to 8 Gb (which is significantly cheaper than the current price premium on 2 Gb video cards), then your lag spikes would also be cured.
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg710...png&res=mediumQuote:
Originally Posted by CrazyNutz
Only if you have less than 8 Gb system ram. With sufficient system ram you do not get lag spikes from Vram shortage, only a slight reduction to FPS due to shared ram being slower.
Here is testing done by me using different ram sticks in Metro 2033 benchmark (top two results are mine). The bottom result with 2 Gb GTX 560 tis was taken from Sniper_Sung:
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9...troramvram.png
I actually get more performance and significantly smoother average framerate using faster ram sticks than a person with 2 Gb GTX 560 tis has.
Im sure I've heard from several people that Metro at those settings uses more than 1 Gb Vram, so why doesnt the 2 Gb GTX 560 tis gain any improvement while lower timing ram modules do?
Why dont you try to read through the whole review?Quote:
Originally Posted by ExodusC
http://pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Ca.../Battlefield-3
I have no idea why they didnt use Ultra settings, ut I do hear several people saying that they play online FPS games at lower settings to maintain a 60 FPS minimum, in which case GTX 560 ti x 2 is superior over a single GTX 580 at 1920x1200 resolution.
Oh, and Metro definitely does utilize over 1 Gb vram at highest settings an 1200p resolution, but having 2 Gb vram does nothing to improve performance over 1 Gb vram.
Just because BF3 caches more vram doesn't mean that it needs it. Crysis 2 does that as well. At 1080p I don't think that there would be any benefit to more than 1GB of vram in those titles. Its mostly once you start talking about texture packs and/or higher resolutions that more vram really becomes necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyNutz
Another thing to consider is this from the steam hardware surveys:
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5994/vrammonitor.png
The average PC gamer would be using 1 Gb Vram @ 1920x1200 reolution or less.
I do not buy anyones arguments, nor can I take anyone seriously that assumes that all these people must be having lag spikes in their games, as this is precisely what most people who try to justify having more Vram keep on doing.
Users with 2 Gb+ Vram are still a minority of PC enthusiasts, and there is nothing wrong with having this much Vram if you want to have it, or can utilize it at higher resolutions. But to assume that the average gamer playing at 1080p with 1 Gb Vram is doing something wrong, and must be experiencing lag spikes and poor performance in their games due to Vram shortages is clueless and ignorant.
The only thing that will make 2 Gb+ Vram more common is if it becomes available on good price / performance <£150 video cards. This hasnt happened yet, and people playing at <1200p will have little interest in wanting to pay over £220 for a card with 2 Gb Vram.
And why do you think that is relevant?
Look at the result. 2.1% for 1536mb vram (GTX480/580), this card has even less potential sales than thoose cards. Just becasue the average user have weaker systems doesnt affect this card at all. Its still just as limited as before.
(this card is stronger than a GTX580 untill the vram runs out)
Just ignore the bhavv. He is just defending his purchase which I do think is a good buy. Don't you know that if he bought something that it can do no wrong? There are compromises.
I can tell you for a fact that with BF3 ultra preset 1680x1050 the lag starts as soon as the vram maxes out, It may take a few minutes for it to happen, and some maps are worse than others.\Quote:
Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ
The game works just fine on the high preset, and the vram never maxes out.
Dont forget system ram is not always a limiting factor for vram, its all about game engine design...
Sorry but no to you, my system memory only maxes out at ~%80 used during game play. And just in case you want to start blaming my CPU it maxes out at ~%60Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
I get the lag spikes when the vram is fully allocated. I can see it with my own eyes!
It only happens when I run the ultra preset, with the high preset (which is what i run and i'm fine with it) I never get a single lag spike, and the vram never maxes out..
Fact is BF3 Can max out the vram on 1gb GPU's, and when it dose you have an undesirable effect on your gameplay!