3DMark 11 out on 30th November

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Originally Posted by FM_Jarnis

I don't know where to even start

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you shouldnt have to reply at all, if this guy gets so mad that money is spent by Nvida/AMD on your software, i cant imagine how he must feel about TWIMTBP titles where nvidia specifically spends money to provide "a better" experience.

also predicting future games is basically impossible. with many of them being console ports, and some of them running dx7 (WoW), the needs people have will be completely different based on what they like.

some people want 3 wide monitor setups for the FPS, does that mean futuremark should make a super high resolution profile, doubt it.

fact is you guys try to push the latest dx specs from the ground up and do it quite quickly. not only that, but youve built a community around the benchmarking world, which is something we cant get from ingame demos/tests.

keep up the good work!

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Originally Posted by Katzenschleuder

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I hope you ruled out any driver issues that are causing biased results. Also, have you checked to what extend 3DMark stresses certain parts of the benchmark? What about AA/AF/IQ settings: are the 1920x1200 game test settings are always equal those used in the Xtreme preset?

Also, please be more useful and do correlative research to figure out what benchmarks are closer and further away from 3DMark's estimation. That could be interesting.

Lastly, I suppose you have used more than 2 DX10 benchmarks to prove that 3DMark is inherenly incorrect?

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Originally Posted by Katzenschleuder

Do you have to punch your head against the wall to make yourself believe that obvious untruth or do you just have to turn a switch for that?

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Hm. That theory would explain this, though. I'll take it into consideration next time me and my elite science team try to figure out the universe.

http://diy-images.adventuresindiy.co...le_in_wall.jpg

44.03 detonator drivers anyone ;)

Looking Forward to the new benchmark software, Upset they removed 2001se support/ As long as I get all my results back Ill be happpy.

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Originally Posted by FM_Jarnis

I don't know where to even start, so I'll just state that FM stands behind it's products and states that they produce usable results within the margin of error that is reasonable to expect from a single benchmark.

Will you get more accurate results if you mix multiple benchmarks and games when compared to a single benchmark (even one that has multiple workloads)? Sure. That's simple math.

Does that invalidate any individual benchmark? Nope - a single benchmark has higher error margin than combined score from multiple benchmarks. Duh. That doesn't mean the result is invalid.

Are the differences between 3DMark and a pool of games material? No - they are well within the error margin, especially when you consider that many games run better on cards from specific vendor (accidentally or on purpose), creating bias. Spotty multi-GPU support also creates bias (while 3DMark is always offering full multi-GPU support). You also have to consider that benchmarking a pile of games and creating an average out of that is obviously (slightly) more accurate than any single result (from a benchmark or a game).

3DMark Vantage might not be the best or the prettiest product we've ever done, but one thing it does do is to produce a valid, unbiased score and seems to be doing it even with hardware that was years away from being released when it was shipped. With 3DMark 11, we have the exact same goal.

As for the business model side - I'm not the person to discuss about it. If you want to continue that discussion, I suggest you contact us at bdp [at] futuremark.com - I'm sure our guys are happy to do an interview or provide more details.

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The average of games is not "slightly more accurate" - it is (or at least should be) the reason and goal for the performance evaluation.

That a synthetic benchmark will never accomplish the goal of a correct performance evaluation is just one side.
The real problem is that the IHVs are forced to invest a significant amount pure money and driver team resources into 3DMark, which could be spend into driver development for games instead.

So 3DMark is nothing but an obstacle for what GPUs are actualy made for. (This doesn't count for people who buy a 1500 € PC for watching a 5 minute demo of course.)

good, i hope they fix the clipping bugs in the temple bench... ;)

Any news on a new release date?

3dmark produces results that are easily reproducible, and from the preliminary results, it seems like a fairly accurate way of gauging performance too.

Ha ha todays games suck ass!!! console ports to play with a $1500 pc lol
Whens the last time you even seen a health pack?or not had to rejester to play online?
I'll take a 5 minute demo anyday over that junk they push to the masses as games these days.
BUT that said i hope the new benchmark is alot better then 3dvantage looks wise,IMHO they have not made a decent bench since 03.
Delay it for a good nature test why dont you?...go old school remake 3d01 nature for dx11.

Yes we want a fully tweakable benchmark alike 01 !!!

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Originally Posted by Katzenschleuder

The average of games is not "slightly more accurate" - it is (or at least should be) the reason and goal for the performance evaluation.

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Time to wake up and face reality !! Some games just pump out results faaaaaaaaaar out of the margin or error. I've tested a lot of games to produce decent stable numbers... some are just :rofl:

No idea why you are so messed up about FM... did they reject your programming code ?

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Originally Posted by FM_Jarnis

I don't know where to even start, so I'll just state that FM stands behind it's products and states that they produce usable results within the margin of error that is reasonable to expect from a single benchmark.

Will you get more accurate results if you mix multiple benchmarks and games when compared to a single benchmark (even one that has multiple workloads)? Sure. That's simple math.

Does that invalidate any individual benchmark? Nope - a single benchmark has higher error margin than combined score from multiple benchmarks. Duh. That doesn't mean the result is invalid.

Are the differences between 3DMark and a pool of games material? No - they are well within the error margin, especially when you consider that many games run better on cards from specific vendor (accidentally or on purpose), creating bias. Spotty multi-GPU support also creates bias (while 3DMark is always offering full multi-GPU support). You also have to consider that benchmarking a pile of games and creating an average out of that is obviously (slightly) more accurate than any single result (from a benchmark or a game).

3DMark Vantage might not be the best or the prettiest product we've ever done, but one thing it does do is to produce a valid, unbiased score and seems to be doing it even with hardware that was years away from being released when it was shipped. With 3DMark 11, we have the exact same goal.

As for the business model side - I'm not the person to discuss about it. If you want to continue that discussion, I suggest you contact us at bdp [at] futuremark.com - I'm sure our guys are happy to do an interview or provide more details.

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You don't have to spend that much time trying to explain how it work to someone.

I do kno how the BDP is working and that was an interview/demo i was thinking to make whil i met Oliver for this interview.

Actually the BDP and all that stuff is pretty interestign and honestly fair...

And of course a benchmark company don't make money by selling it to end user... (neither DELL or HP with there laptop to end-users... :D)

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Originally Posted by Trouffman

You don't have to spend that much time trying to explain how it work to someone.

I do kno how the BDP is working and that was an interview/demo i was thinking to make whil i met Oliver for this interview.

Actually the BDP and all that stuff is pretty interestign and honestly fair...

And of course a benchmark company don't make money by selling it to end user... (neither DELL or HP with there laptop to end-users... :D)

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http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8875/bagdadbob1.jpg

Katzenschleuder lol man give it up

how do you get your copy of shattered horizon...i haven't received an email about that

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Originally Posted by mk-ultra

how do you get your copy of shattered horizon...i haven't received an email about that

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Did you pre order before the 29th? if so then you should of received it by now.

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Originally Posted by Leeghoofd

Yes we want a fully tweakable benchmark alike 01 !!!

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Oh, there will be a lot of things to tweak (in the Advanced edition). Even a mode with... oops.. well, can't spill the beans on that just yet. ;)

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Originally Posted by X.T.R.E.M.E_ICE

Did you pre order before the 29th? if so then you should of received it by now.

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And if you did preorder before the delay was announced and haven't received an email about it (and have checked your junk folders), email to sales [at] futuremark.com and inquire from them.

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Originally Posted by FM_Jarnis

Oh, there will be a lot of things to tweak (in the Advanced edition). Even a mode with... oops.. well, can't spill the beans on that just yet. ;)

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You'll find he is specifically talking about running subtests individually and still getting a combined score like 01 does

We've been hoping for a new edition benchmark like that for a while

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Originally Posted by X.T.R.E.M.E_ICE

Did you pre order before the 29th? if so then you should of received it by now.

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Nope, i havent received mine yet...

yeah I noticed that I'm spending £3000 only to watch such demos...

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Originally Posted by dinos22

You'll find he is specifically talking about running subtests individually and still getting a combined score like 01 does

We've been hoping for a new edition benchmark like that for a while

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That won't happen - the combined 3DMark score is given only when the benchmark is completed using a specific preset - it is the only way to ensure that the score is comparable. Older benchmarks gave a number that was effectively meaningless unless you confirmed it with a qualifier "with default settings".

You do get GPU and CPU score. For game tests, the GPU score can be used for comparing different tweaks and individual tests (or CPU score for 5th test and both for 6th).

Any news about release date?
1-2 days or 1-2 weeks?

Ssssssssssssoooooooooooooo...... Any dates? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by X.T.R.E.M.E_ICE

Did you pre order before the 29th? if so then you should of received it by now.

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yes i have my pre-order for like a month

thanks Jarnis, i think i'll send an email, my junk folder gets deleted automatically, but all the other email went through in my inbox

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Originally Posted by Katzenschleuder

So 3DMark is nothing but an obstacle for what GPUs are actualy made for. (This doesn't count for people who buy a 1500 € PC for watching a 5 minute demo of course.)

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Darn those Futuremark guys standing in front of progress, we should burn their infamous work in the streets, it is standing in the path of progress and enlightement. :rofl::rofl::rofl: