GF100 will be fastest GPU, Dual GPU Fermi is coming!

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12-12-2009, 01:36 PM
Helloworld_98

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

simple reason?

Have you even compared specs?

High-end Fermi is going to be at least 30% faster than GTX295 in the worst case scenario.

you're forgetting drivers and that Fermi is a different architecture to GT200b

Fermi could be the Pentium 4 of GPU's, looks amazing on the spec sheet, is pretty crap in reality.
12-12-2009, 01:38 PM
Vit^pr0n

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadov

By the way, is someone besides me getting the feeling that Fermi will be "available" very close to HD 6000 launch? :rolleyes:

Highly unlikely unless ATi releases it in Q3 and Nvidia launches Fermi late Q1. By then it would be a waste to even get Fermi with the HD6000 so close.
12-12-2009, 01:38 PM
bladerash

Quote:

Originally Posted by skugpezz

it is simple reason. how is this post of yours different from crap?:slapass:

Mind validate ur reasoning on ''i dont see fermi being faster than the gtx 295'' ?
You just made a statement.. got anything to back it up? if not, then why wouldnt it be crap? Would be no difference from me saying: ''The earth is flat''

[img] http://img513.imageshack.us/i/fermispecs.jpg/ [/img]

if u look at the fermi specs.. everything is more then doubled from GT200 which is the GTX 280. The GTX 290 is not even made of 2x 280.. So what's ur reason for it not being faster?
12-12-2009, 01:39 PM
zerazax

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

simple reason?

Have you even compared specs?

High-end Fermi is going to be at least 30% faster than GTX295 in the worst case scenario.

Performance can't be compared just by specs, much less specs across different architectures
12-12-2009, 01:44 PM
Helloworld_98

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vit^pr0n

Highly unlikely unless ATi releases it in Q3 and Nvidia launches Fermi late Q1. By then it would be a waste to even get Fermi with the HD6000 so close.

it's rumoured for May so Q3 release could be only 1 and a bit months after Fermi's release.
12-12-2009, 01:44 PM
skugpezz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

simple reason?

Have you even compared specs?

High-end Fermi is going to be at least 30% faster than GTX295 in the worst case scenario.

Specs show that fermi will be 30% faster than gtx 295 at physx and cuda and other gpu apps. I play video games and specs show it wont be faster than the gtx 295 in gaming

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladerash

Mind validate ur reasoning on ''i dont see fermi being faster than the gtx 295'' ?
You just made a statement.. got anything to back it up? if not, then why wouldnt it be crap? Would be no difference from me saying: ''The earth is flat''

[img] http://img513.imageshack.us/i/fermispecs.jpg/ [/img]

if u look at the fermi specs.. everything is more then doubled from GT200 which is the GTX 280. The GTX 290 is not even made of 2x 280.. So what's ur reason for it not being faster?

sorry I meant simple reasoning. Just trends I do admit the fermi will be faster than the gtx 295 at cuda and playing batman
12-12-2009, 01:51 PM
xenolith

Quote:

Originally Posted by tajoh111

Something tells me that AMD is going to wait until 28nm if they are indeed doing the skip of 32nm before there next generation r900. r870 is getting close to 400mm2 as it is, and the power envelope is working against them as seen with the 4890. 28nm is going to make the cards 2011 cards.

They might refresh this generation, but if its like the former generation(4890), it might just catch up like gtx 280 vs 4890.

So basically, all GPU silicon comes through TSMC until 2011? Ugh... The Great GPU Drought of 2009 will be called The Great GPU Depression of 2010. :(

Globalfoundries roadmap:
http://www.semiconductor.net/photo/1...admap_jpg_.jpg
12-12-2009, 01:52 PM
Clairvoyant129

Quote:

Originally Posted by skugpezz

Specs show that fermi will be 30% faster than gtx 295 at physx and cuda and other gpu apps. I play video games and specs show it wont be faster than the gtx 295 in gaming

How could it not? 512 shader processors, GDDR5 on a 384bit bus, almost double specs of GT200. HD5870 was double of 4870X2 and it is just as if not faster than the latter, so if its true for ATI, it can't be true for Nvidia?

You're the biggest fanboy since gosh. :rolleyes:
12-12-2009, 01:53 PM
skugpezz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clairvoyant129

How could it not? 512 shader processors, GDDR5 on a 384bit bus, almost double specs of GT200. HD5870 was double of 4870X2 and it is just as if not faster than the latter, so if its true for ATI, it can't be true for Nvidia?

You're the biggest fanboy since gosh. :rolleyes:

For ati we have benchies, Please show me benches that prove me to be a fanboy
12-12-2009, 01:57 PM
Clairvoyant129

Quote:

Originally Posted by skugpezz

For ati we have benchies, Please show me benches that prove me to be a fanboy

I don't need to show benches, you keep spouting non-sense and all this bull about 5850 or whatever being faster than GTX 285, no one cares but you. :rolleyes:

It's like you have some kind of inferiority complex. You don't need to keep posting, "MY HD5850 is faster than your GTX 280!!! blah blah blah." and posting negative crap on NV threads.
12-12-2009, 02:05 PM
Florinmocanu

Fermi does have double specs than a GTX 285, but... From what we know, they have problems achieving high frequencies.

Low frequencies means it will be slightly lower than what Nvidia intended it to be, just like GT200 at release.
12-12-2009, 02:07 PM
Blacky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

Would you please stop posting crap?

I wouldn't say that, look what happened when GT200 was launched, the 9800 GX2 made the GT200 look bad, I hope for nvidia sake Fermi doesn't end like the R600 did...so much specs crap performance.
12-12-2009, 02:08 PM
G0ldBr1ck

Quote:

Originally Posted by skugpezz

For ati we have benchies, Please show me benches that prove me to be a fanboy

I am a fan of ATI's products. I have favored them over NV for a couple years now.

Your fanboy stance in every Fermi thread is over the top ridiculous, childish, anoying, and Xtremely pointless even to another ATI fan like myself.

Just thought I would let you in on that. Good day ;)
12-12-2009, 02:11 PM
skugpezz

Quote:

Originally Posted by G0ldBr1ck

I am a fan of ATI's products. I have favored them over NV for a couple years now.

Your fanboy stance in every Fermi thread is over the top ridiculous, childish, anoying, and Xtremely pointless even to another ATI fan like myself.

Just thought I would let you in on that. Good day ;)

Ok, Because I cant seem to predict the future of fermi like you guys do I am a fanboy? I have a right to share my opinion.
12-12-2009, 02:18 PM
Chumbucket843

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helloworld_98

you're forgetting drivers and that Fermi is a different architecture to GT200b

Fermi could be the Pentium 4 of GPU's, looks amazing on the spec sheet, is pretty crap in reality.

all p4 had was clock frequency which was marketed heavily just like ATi does with flops. we are talking about gpu's and if you have not noticed its not that different than previous architectures aside from gpgpu features. getting rid of the mul unit, 200GB/s bandwidth, and more R&D compared to r800 hints that wont happen.
12-12-2009, 02:33 PM
safan80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadov

So if youre waiting to compress movies a bit faster and overpay for non-existing GPGPU consumer programs - Fermi will be your card. Everyone else should go for ATI and you know what?

Considering none of the cuda apps I've used could do SLI, I doubt one Fermi would be enough to combat 1 5970 in say Folding.

Yes Fermi will have to beat the 5970 to get the high end.
12-12-2009, 02:37 PM
LordEC911

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew LB

Considering it was only in the past week or two that I was even able to find a 5870 in stock at an online store (because of production issues at TMSC), I'm not too worried about "missing the boat".

I highly doubt ATi even made any money on the very few 5870's released during October and November because of the 50% yield rate TMSC was still having through late November on the .40nm process.

And I still think it was a poor business move to release the card when they did, specifically because of the horrible yields and all the product their 3rd party card manufacturers are now stuck with on store shelves. Not much business sense to completely devalue your entire 4xxx product line by releasing a FAR faster card... when low yields prevent you from making money on it in addition to it not even being available to buy.

Newegg only has tons of HD4xxx cards in stock, with only a few of those models sold out. The same cannot be said for their stocks of nVidia cards since HALF of the GTX2xx models are sold out

Please stop posting bad/false information. Cypress yields are MUCH higher than 50%. Based on early numbers which are supposedly lower than the true yields, according to some, I believe yields are in the 65-75% range though they unfortunately are slightly lower than the aggressive goals AMD set. Juniper on the other hand is doing fantastic, is
exceeding expectations" and seems to be nearing yield numbers taking over for where RV770 left off.

Trust me, AMD is making bank right now with where the prices are at since the BOM for Cypress is only slightly higher than RV770. Basically they were able to replace the 4870x2 with something that decreases their expense by a good deal, meaning a large margin.

BTW- Who is on a .40nm production process? That is amazing, that's like 1% the size of TSMC's current production process...:p:

Quote:

Originally Posted by skugpezz

Can fanboys really get any worse? The shortage of 58xx was also due to dell buying hundreds of thousands of them at once. Isnt that alot of money made? Just for the record my 5850 owns your gtx 285 at a lower price in all games. 5700 were always available too. NOTHING NVIDIA HAS IS IMPRESSIVE (no this is not fanboy talk)

EDIT: apple buying 4870s by the thousands brings money in for amd too.

Wow, please don't post info when you have no idea on numbers. OEMs did buy up quite a lot of AMD's new inventory but it was not in the "hundreds of thousands."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vit^pr0n

It amazes me how quick people forgot this :ROTF:

I've been saying it for awhile now.. don't overhype Fermi. It will only lead to disappointment when you overestimate the card. Same deal with the 5870. People expected too much out of it and were disappointed when it was pretty much the exact same thing as a 4870x2 minus the new features. Well duh. The specs were pretty much double.

As for my guesses on performance. I'm going for its a repeat of the previous gen. The GTX380 will be ~20-30% faster than the 5870 ( Just like the GTX280 - 4870 ), and the GTX360 will be the exact same as the 5870. However, the difference with this gen compared to last is that Fermi will be a beast outside of gaming. That much is obvious. I think my performance estimates are the most realistic :D

GF100 will have, roughly, about the same gaming performance advantage as GPGPU, or ~20-40%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

simple reason?

Have you even compared specs?

High-end Fermi is going to be at least 30% faster than GTX295 in the worst case scenario.

How so? Have you actually compared the REAL specs of GF100...
There are a few places that could actually bottleneck the chip compared to GTX295. I do expect GF100 to be around GTX295 performance and beat it in some cases but not by 30%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenolith

So basically, all GPU silicon comes through TSMC until 2011? Ugh... The Great GPU Drought of 2009 will be called The Great GPU Depression of 2010. :(

No... 28nm should be ramping at GF before the end of 2010, we probably won't be seeing anything in Q3, though it isn't entirely out of the question, but Q4 seems to be the most probable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chumbucket843

all p4 had was clock frequency which was marketed heavily just like ATi does with flops. we are talking about gpu's and if you have not noticed its not that different than previous architectures aside from gpgpu features. getting rid of the mul unit, 200GB/s bandwidth, and more R&D compared to r800 hints that wont happen.

Umm... ATi wasn't the one that started the Flops war, that started a loooong time ago. So how much has been spent on GF100 and R800 R&D? Please share...
12-12-2009, 02:44 PM
skugpezz

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordEC911

Please stop posting bad/false information. Cypress yields are MUCH higher than 50%. Based on early numbers which are supposedly lower than the true yields, according to some, I believe yields are in the 65-75% range though they unfortunately are slightly lower than the aggressive goals AMD set. Juniper on the other hand is doing fantastic, is
exceeding expectations" and seems to be nearing yield numbers taking over for where RV770 left off.

Trust me, AMD is making bank right now with where the prices are at since the BOM for Cypress is only slightly higher than RV770. Basically they were able to replace the 4870x2 with something that decreases their expense by a good deal, meaning a large margin.

BTW- Who is on a .40nm production process? That is amazing, that's like 1% the size of TSMC's current production process...:p:

Wow, please don't post info when you have no idea on numbers. OEMs did buy up quite a lot of AMD's new inventory but it was not in the "hundreds of thousands."

GF100 will have, roughly, about the same gaming performance advantage as GPGPU, or ~20-40%.

How so? Have you actually compared the REAL specs of GF100...
There are a few places that could actually bottleneck the chip compared to GTX295. I do expect GF100 to be around GTX295 performance and beat it in some cases but not by 30%.

No... 28nm should be ramping at GF before the end of 2010, we probably won't be seeing anything in Q3, though it isn't entirely out of the question, but Q4 seems to be the most probable.

Umm... ATi wasn't the one that started the Flops war, that started a loooong time ago. So how much has been spent on GF100 and R800 R&D? Please share...

ok to be specific dell bought over 100,000, and apple cleaned the warehouse. Feeling better now?
12-12-2009, 02:46 PM
tajoh111

Quote:

Originally Posted by skugpezz

Ok, Because I cant seem to predict the future of fermi like you guys do I am a fanboy? I have a right to share my opinion.

Theres a huge difference, everything thing you say is just an attempt to bait people into a useless argument, but instead of using reasoning in the debate, you simply insult them.

I given up simply trying to debate because you use no logic and at best, ad hominem arguments when your not insulting them.

I simply feel to raise my voice( I know it useless over the internet), when you simply are beginning to piss everyone off.

You are completely obnoxious, even people like clairvoyant and Goldbrick and to a lesser extent myself, who are AMD/ATI card holders are getting completely annoyed. Atleast most fanboys have some reasoning in their debates, you just seem like you want to cause a raucous and annoy.

You might have a right to your opinion, but when noone agree's and most your comments involve insulting someone, it just going to be a one way ticket to banville.

Your personality is so sour, its no wonder you been banned from other forums and your own forum is sparsely populated.
12-12-2009, 02:56 PM
Dainas

Quote:

Originally Posted by skugpezz

however the gtx 285 is beaten in crysis by the 5850 and the 5870

he was talking about dual GTX 280s, try more reading and less jaw flapping. We all know the GTX 285/280s are surpassed, but they were perfectly fine to buy for the time they were under $350 long before the HD5870 came out. Also this thread is about fermi, which needs to be more powerful than the 5870 to succeed.
12-12-2009, 02:59 PM
Kej

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenolith

So basically, all GPU silicon comes through TSMC until 2011? Ugh... The Great GPU Drought of 2009 will be called The Great GPU Depression of 2010. :(

Globalfoundries roadmap:
http://www.semiconductor.net/photo/1...admap_jpg_.jpg

That Roadmap is a bit old.
See page 6 on this PDF from AMDs Financial Day Earlier this month for a newer one.
GLOBALFOUNDRIES Presentation
12-12-2009, 03:00 PM
blindbox

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenolith

So basically, all GPU silicon comes through TSMC until 2011? Ugh... The Great GPU Drought of 2009 will be called The Great GPU Depression of 2010. :(

Globalfoundries roadmap:
http://www.semiconductor.net/photo/1...admap_jpg_.jpg

That's the old one. Here's the new one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedjo

latest GloFo's roadmap from whom is easy to pinpoint sample timeframe of Ll(el)iano:

http://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/814/01.jpg

source: http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=814
12-12-2009, 03:04 PM
LordEC911

Quote:

Originally Posted by skugpezz

ok to be specific dell bought over 100,000, and apple cleaned the warehouse. Feeling better now?

Sorry for the OT guys but I feel the need to clarify.
Dell nor Apple received a shipment of +100k Cypress based cards. They might have ordered/signed a contract for +100k Cypress based cards but the actual supply to a single OEM was no where near that.
12-12-2009, 03:06 PM
zalbard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florinmocanu

Fermi does have double specs than a GTX 285, but... From what we know, they have problems achieving high frequencies.

Low frequencies means it will be slightly lower than what Nvidia intended it to be, just like GT200 at release.

Yeah, but the new architecture might bring some benefits, too.
12-12-2009, 03:17 PM
Vit^pr0n

Quote:

Originally Posted by zalbard

Yeah, but the new architecture might bring some benefits, too.

It looks like the new architecture is more aimed towards GPGPU. That's not to say it wont be different on the gaming side though. Just going by specs, it should be 20-40% faster than the 5870. Pretty much the exact same as last gen.

Honestly, I think that all threads regarding Fermi should be locked unless said thread actually has NEW info. Not info coming from Nvidia's PR of all people. I'm talking actual benchmarks/official specs/release/performance figures. Ever since the 5800's released anything regarding Fermi has been pretty much the same. We've all repeated ourselves for the past 2+ months now :ROTF:

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