To everyone in the WC section, Please read!

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Originally Posted by sheriff_deadeye

So the Mods will do their best to tackle the problem and monitor the threads, but it's also up to the rest of us to do our homework, ignore some of the noise, and make the build that best suites our requirements. After all, you can' t believe everything you read on the net. :)

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QFT!! :up:

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

I think ultimately, if agreed upon by the mods, it should be them who decides the format and level of detail. Also, what punishment/bans levied is not adhered to after warnings on both sides.

Not tyring to turn the forum into a bureaucracy or anything, just a way to smooth the waters and retain the forums integrity in the near term.

Because we're losing new and old members over this type of thing, over all the in fighting it's caused, and that's the biggest shame of all. I consider this to be the best forum on WC'ing, that's why I only contribute here on XS.

I'd like to see it stay that way:up:

And I don't mean to single you out, or make you out as a lightning rod for the problem. It's far more reaching than any one single person. As a matter of fact, I respect your honesty about the sponderships and such. It's refreshing.

andyc

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I stand by my method of helping people here so no problem (well, other than the little war with RRR). I challenge anyone to do a search of my posts and ten tell me I push any SINGLE water-cooling vendor ;) I can say this because I know what you will find. I normally list at least two to three makes (DD,EK, and then one of the others such as Swiftek or Koolance as of late). I do not personally recommend Dtek as I have none of their products but I do tell people that the Fusions are some of the most popular ones so they might take that into consideration. I recommend BI, TC, and Feser rads although I have clearly been the leader in questioning where TC is at the moment and about their future prospects.

We are BLESSED to have so many kick arse vendors to choose from with new ones coming onto the market (Feser, Bitspower to name a couple) and with the older ones really pushing the envelope (Ben at MM is just going insane with his cases . . . and Vincent at BP and Mario at Feser are tearing it up in the hizzle ma nizzles). If anything we should all be pulling together as they are pretty exciting times and we should be glad to have such a fun hobby to distract us from the rest of the world which is full of crap at the moment.

Hell, I am currently on another forum in the middle of fights with Republicans on one side and Democrats on the other and libertarian me in the middle getting fragged ;)

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Originally Posted by sheriff_deadeye

MM thanks for posting this thread. As i stated in other threads, i just finished my first WC build, and all is working great thanks to the great info and help here at XS.

I did go with a few decisions that, based on the very recent atmosphere at XS, would not be considered the 'right' build but it met my requirements and has been running non-stop without issue for 2 months now. Fortunately several members posted positive feedback and one specifically refuted the 'right build' mentality. Overall, my experience has been great here at XS, but i'm glad to see an outright effort to keep it that way.

Finally...the decisions i made were my own, based on hours and hours of reading here at XS. Which means i was able to extract the solid test data, good opinions and good experiences to form my own decisions. Before i started my build, I had no WC knowledge so I made it a point to gain as much understanding as possible.

If you come to XS new to WC and ask "what should i buy; how should i built it?" but you do not have at least a basic understanding of WC, then you are opening the door to a flood of opinions. Also, if you about to embark on your first WC project, then it's not a bad idea to assume you will spend 5% - 20% of your original budget on mistakes. I don't see anything wrong with that assumption...be it the wrong sized clamps, radiator grill, res, or other issues. Sometimes an RMA is not a possibility. It is good to have a goal of keeping fanboyism to a min., but it will always lurk to some degree. Having a solid understanding of the basics and doing your own research so you understand and are not just following blindly, and being willing to make mistakes, will result in a better experience and a better build.

So the Mods will do their best to tackle the problem and monitor the threads, but it's also up to the rest of us to do our homework, ignore some of the noise, and make the build that best suites our requirements. After all, you can' t believe everything you read on the net. :)

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We should all practice this mantra . . ."There is no right . . .only what is right for you" . . .I too often forget this and do not take into account things like limited means or using what one has . . .

^^^ *sigh* I miss the old Speak Freely days... ;)

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

Said it before, say it again (and Marci jumped me for stating this but I still stand by it): If you care THAT much about a 3c delta . . .take the next step and head over to the Pelt or phase change forums. The best you will get here is ambient.

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I agree, to me it's more about °C per $ spent than anything. All I know is my "ghetto" watercooler setup absolutely destroys my old air cooler. I have less in my watercooling setup than most people do in their TRUE heatsinks + fans.

I'n not the typical XS'er, I'm more budget minded than throw every $ at it for max °C drops. It has to be a serious gain for me to even consider it. With that said, i tend to err towards the cheap side when I make a recommendation to a 1st time watercooler. I've seen WAY too many people run off after dumping hundreds into a setup that is too complicated for them, then it not perform the way they hoped it would.

It's sad to hear of someone bailing from XS for the reasons stated in the quoted PM. But, fwiw from a noobiest-of-noobs perspective, I think this forum is still the best there is (3DGuru is pretty awesome too). Personally, I'm amazed at the degree of courtesy I've been shown, even after posting something that I realized (too late... sigh) was completely idiotic. It's positively amazing how much I've learned here in the past 6 months. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I haven't noticed the conflict on certain threads lately. But, as far as the ongoing health of the forum goes, I've also noticed an incredible amount of self-examinatio by a lot of forum members, including the guys that I really look up to. And that's hugely encouraging.

This forum rocks and, imo, will continue to do so because so many peeps genuinely care about it.

Excellent thread Dave.

edit: "self examination" didn't come out right - I meant not so much people examining themselves (tho it's part of it), but more an examination of the forum itself to ensure it meets certain standards.

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Originally Posted by Omastar

You guys ran off Marci, Cathar, and MaxxRacer from this forum. Well done. Let's just let the WC wars die already.

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aww...wtf, now why did they go and do that!?!?! now that makes me mad (i've been busy with school lately so i havent really had time to get on much, so im kind of out of the loop on the whole situation:()

come on guys, grow up, the point of this forum is to help one another out to the best of your ability. If someone comes in here asking for help and advise mentor them and do what you can to teach them what you know so they will get the information they need and maybe they will in turn be able to help someone else out later on down the road.

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Originally Posted by p8ntslinger676

aww...wtf, now why did they go and do that!?!?! now that makes me mad (i've been busy with school lately so i havent really had time to get on much, so im kind of out of the loop on the whole situation:()

come on guys, grow up, the point of this forum is to help one another out to the best of your ability. If someone comes in here asking for help and advise mentor them and do what you can to teach them what you know so they will get the information they need and maybe they will in turn be able to help someone else out later on down the road.

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Well its not really like that. Marci got a new job. Cathar had a accident on the bike and was busy with that.. and Maxx got himself some woman. :D

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Originally Posted by [XC] riptide

Well its not really like that. Marci got a new job. Cathar had a accident on the bike and was busy with that.. and Maxx got himself some woman. :D

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where do you get women?

Well in Riptide's case the local flock.....................

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

where do you get women?

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Thought you got a red one ??? :rofl:

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

where do you get women?

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I get them shipped in from Ohio...

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Originally Posted by fart_plume

Well in Riptide's case the local flock.....................

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:fight:

i told you it was too easy today, and i had a low resistance to easy:rofl:

Thats West 'By Gawd' Virginia?

i dont run my mouth on any company unless i catch them slipping.

And believe me when i go off on a post on that company, i HAVE FULL ON PROOF!


But dave, you also need to list that a company if they want to promote on this site, needs to have full data backed on ANY statement they say. Dont make us bring another Koolance vs HWLabs incident. Cuz i will bring one if i catch a company slipping and lying to us.

R3 knows what company i currently have my eye on as well. I almost have enough proof to lay a can of whoopass on them as well.

Lying vendors shouldnt even be on this forum, so if we run them off, GOOD.

I haven't been on XS for that long myself, and although I have noticed a recent increase in the amount of flame wars and overall BS, I have to say it's still considerably less than any other forum I've ever frequented. My biggest gripe is with the fact that when I ask for help and information the plethora of uninformative one sentence answers I have to read through is quite a nuisance. Although quite often if I repeat my question I will finally get a real answer out of someone(most of the time in the end its the same group of people that gives me a good answer I can use). If I wanted to get a mindless fact less 'just buy this part because I say you should' answer I would go to Worst Buy or Microcenter and ask their employees :rolleyes:

I've learned to take every thing said here with a grain of salt as I do in the rest of my life. And when in doubt I demand evidence. There are people I've come to trust and just as equally posters I've learned are untrustworthy. I don't see any use in arguing to an excessive extent over what's right and wrong, but if you insist on it please give me the common courtesy either prove it or provide fact to prove me wrong. I understand that everyone is of different ages and race and upbringings, but I don't think the fact that there is a mix of both truthful and kind people here along with the dishonest rude, just as in real life can be denied. After all this forum is part of our lives so I doubt that can ever fully change (Unless maybe this becomes a cult where we're all supposed to drink the Pentosin Koolaid :p:).

I've learned a ton from this forum and give whatever back that I can. All I can say is I hope the forum and especially the water cooling section stays up and active so I can get my daily fix on geek stuff :D If there's ever anything I can do to help out on the forums in any way, shape, or form let me know. The water cooling section especially has given me more help in the past year than anything, and I'd love to be able to give something back. Other than that all I can do is continue learning and sharing my experiences with everyone as I've done up to this point. :up:

If I've said anything offensive or off topic I apologize but after reading the rest of this forum I had to interject my feelings. After all I do consider this a home.

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

i dont run my mouth on any company unless i catch them slipping.

And believe me when i go off on a post on that company, i HAVE FULL ON PROOF!


But dave, you also need to list that a company if they want to promote on this site, needs to have full data backed on ANY statement they say. Dont make us bring another Koolance vs HWLabs incident. Cuz i will bring one if i catch a company slipping and lying to us.

R3 knows what company i currently have my eye on as well. I almost have enough proof to lay a can of whoopass on them as well.

Lying vendors shouldnt even be on this forum, so if we run them off, GOOD.

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

In all due respect, and I mean that in all sincerity, that's EGO talking. Not a willngness to help out the forum or WC'ing community. It sounds like your itching for a fight, and all that's going to do is start a ruckass and get everyone stirred up. I say this because I've gone about it that way, and it caused more problems here than it solved. Sure, I get all puffed up thinking I showed them, but in reality all I did is stir up trouble and alienate people.

When a vendor slips up, we can point that out in a civil way without "opening a can of whoopass" on them and starting a fight. And I'm not talking about kissing anyone's ass either. I'm talking going about it in a civil way and stating the facts, or assumptions as the case may be at times, which encourages change, not alienating companies or people.

Look at the way Martin goes about bringing out the facts. He get's his point across fully, everyone get's it and I've yet to see him open a can of whoopass on anybody or companies.

Again, my 2 cents.

andyc

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I have to agree with you Andy. NaeKuh, it may just be the way you put your thoughts into text, but is this the same manner in which you conduct yourself in your daily business environment? I am guilty of the same a while back, I admit. The server outage did me a lot of good.

When a vendor/manufacturer comes here to represent their brand/store they come with business in mind. Whether they come to show a soon to be released product or to deal with issues, they are representing a business. The least we can do is treat them with respect, simply point out the issues we (one or many XS users) have encountered and let them digest the situation. They are the one's running the business, we are their customers. I do not know of a single company that would listen to a customer or a feedback group that acts in the manner I have seen in recently. I don't care if we completely disagree with their business practices or not, you have to show them common decency and respect and if you can't...stay out of the thread. The only thing you do by jumping down their throat and making a big to do is show your true colors, and lose a lot of respect for XS from the company you are trying to deal with and many of the members here. Afterall, you being a member here, you are representing XS to that company.

All in all, I want to see more vendors/manufacturers here and participating in the community. We have far to many knowledgable, intelligent and enthusiastic people here willing to stand along side the vendors/manufacturers and further the LC industry. If we keep pushing them out by being ignorant and rude when they show up...they won't come back nor listen to our suggestions in the future.

Just my $0.02...

I agree with CD, I think alot of the problems have occurred because folks need to "Do something (that does NOT mean posting in this forum)". the old days of the forum used to be filled with people testing stuff and fabricating custom projects. Back in those days folks were too busy with a copper slab on thier drill presses or soldering on a heatercore, you just didn't get here without some pain and time invested in building stuff, it was a necessity. With watercooling going more mainstream, water cooling has made fabrication optional, you can have a fully functional water cooling system out of the box with 100% bolt on parts. No need to build and no need to test or tinker, it works. So I think part of it is just plain boredom, they don't share or contribute anything to the forum but their strong personality and business relationship opinions. I'd suggest taking the mix of parts and try and see if you can make them better, tinkering is always a means to make something even better and there is no one magic bullet or perfect combination for everyones budget or experience. We need more folks "Trying" or "Building":hammer: wierd ideas and, that's where the fun is at!! And even if we're not building parts from scratch, there's still tons to do with combinations of parts and sharing what you've learned.

I also think in general the "feel" here has been defensive and destructive.:poke: If you make folks feel uncomfortable or always find yourself in the middle of irritation, chances are you are being "Destructive" to the thread. If you are not posting something with 100% intent to help posotively encourage and help the person posting, you've failed at being constructive and you are being selfish. You shouldn't find yourself in the middle of conflict on every other thread or chances are, something is wrong. Take ownership of your actions and seek to be constructive.

I also think people are just sick of all the SPAM. AKA brand loyalty and fanboism, whatever you know what it is. Opinions without context as to why you feel the way you do is no different than your most annoying pop up banner ad. Opinions without context are SPAM!!:spam:

That's not to say we shouldn't have fun. If the forum was nothing but engineering data, I'd probably be one of a few sick souls that would stay here and enjoy reading it, but it would be quiet. Honestly water cooling is a hobby, it's not necessary, and it's not a perfect science. We're here to have fun, so lets do it, but just don't do it at the expense of others.:toast:

Cheers to constructive comments, constructive discussions, context supported opinions, and having an honest but respectful good time!!
:party:

Beers are on me!..:D

So he left because people have an attitude when they post? Well i dont know if thats against the rules or not but generally thats the same attitude in any of the forums, people are who they are your not gona be able to change the way people talk because your thin skinned. Ive seen the fanboism but in the liquid cooling section i really dont think its that bad, ive gotten more valuable information out of this sub section then any of the others, people dont get excited and recommend EK blocks because they are fanboys, they recommend them because they are the best, plain and simple. Getting pissy because for the past 6 months every one is recommending EK waterblocks and giving an attitude over the way other companys poorly manufacture their products isnt fanboism, its the truth, plain and simple. You want the cold hard truth about how to build a awesome watercooling system, you come to the XS water cooling forum, you want to post how awesome your brand new 100 dollar koolance kit is, with the rotting compression fittings and the mixed matched metals, and have everyone tell you how uber cool it is, you go the IGN forums where they ban people on the spot for posting sny remarks against their sponsors.

Sorry thats just the way i feel, ive never had anyone in this liquid cooling section have an attitude that was out of line or hurt my feelings.