ATI Aiming For R300 Deja-Vu: Officially Launches 4800 Campaign

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06-13-2008, 04:09 AM
Luka_Aveiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

This is not the full performance of the 4850. Because the real competitors to the series is the 9900GTX and GTS(maybe) coming in July, there is still some performance yet to be unlocked to battle those.

Perkam

They have some performance kept in a box to unleash when G92b cards arrive :ROTF:
06-13-2008, 04:15 AM
perkam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

They have some performance kept in a box to unleash when G92b cards arrive :ROTF:

Yup :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATI Release Notes

Performance Improvements

The following performance gains are noticed with this release of Catalyst™ 8.5.

* Call of Juarez DX10: Performance increases up to 12% on systems containing an ATI Radeon™ HD 3xx0 series of product
* Halo: Performance increases by 10-30% across all of the supported ATI Radeon™ series of products
* Lost Planet DX10: Performance increases from 5 to 35% on systems containing an ATI Radeon™ HD 3xx0 series of product
* Stalker DX9: Performance increases by 20-50% when HDR is enabled in the game; across all ATI Radeon™ HD38x0 series of products
* World in Conflict DX10: Performance increases up to 25% on systems containing an ATI Radeon™ HD36x0 and/or an ATI Radeon™ 38x0 series of product. Higher performance gains are noticed on systems contianing an ATI Radeon™ 3870x2 series of product

:)
06-13-2008, 04:22 AM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

Yup :)

:)

lol, since when are performance improvements, that are gained due to better drivers optimizations, secret performance unlocks?

it happens all the time, when the software engineer figure out a way to utilize the architecture in a more efficent way....
06-13-2008, 04:23 AM
Luka_Aveiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

Yup :)

:)

You could put it like this:

"ATI pre-release and release drivers suck, so when G92b arrives, I hope Cat 8.7 or 8.8 can pull a miracle off and actually compete with them"

Giving 4 examples as performance kept in a box is not a fact. It's hope.

Fact is, for now, we know HD4850 is performance equivalent to an 8800GT, I am not saying it's its final performance, I just wouldn't hope big performance increases.
06-13-2008, 04:45 AM
Macadamia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

You could put it like this:

"ATI pre-release and release drivers suck, so when G92b arrives, I hope Cat 8.7 or 8.8 can pull a miracle off and actually compete with them"

Giving 4 examples as performance kept in a box is not a fact. It's hope.

Fact is, for now, we know HD4850 is performance equivalent to an 8800GT, I am not saying it's its final performance, I just wouldn't hope big performance increases.

But since you haven't used a Radeon, nor tried out the Beta 8.6 drivers that killed 3DMark scores, I guess your comments stood out as laughable.
06-13-2008, 04:47 AM
perkam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

You could put it like this:

"ATI pre-release and release drivers suck, so when G92b arrives, I hope Cat 8.7 or 8.8 can pull a miracle off and actually compete with them"

Giving 4 examples as performance kept in a box is not a fact. It's hope.

Fact is, for now, we know HD4850 is performance equivalent to an 8800GT, I am not saying it's its final performance, I just wouldn't hope big performance increases.

The voltmodders ready-in-waiting would disagree with you :p:

Perkam
06-13-2008, 04:57 AM
Luka_Aveiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macadamia

But since you haven't used a Radeon, nor tried out the Beta 8.6 drivers that killed 3DMark scores, I guess your comments stood out as laughable.

You did? So please enlighten me, don't leave me in ignorance :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

The voltmodders ready-in-waiting would disagree with you :p:

Perkam

I really do not see what voltmodding has anything to do with the subject I was discussing with you :confused:
06-13-2008, 05:26 AM
Macadamia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

You did? So please enlighten me, don't leave me in ignorance :rolleyes:

It's a leaked driver, so 06 hasn't been tested much. I've seen some guys on XS saying Vantage increased, but 06 not sure.

http://rage3d.net/board/showpost.php...1&postcount=16

2000 points down on a 3870X2. Even if it was 1k points down on a 4850 only, that would still be huge.
06-13-2008, 05:32 AM
fcry64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

I really do not see what voltmodding has anything to do with the subject I was discussing with you :confused:

hes talking about the performances that 48x0 offer are surpassing:up:

edit
he guesstimates:yepp:
06-13-2008, 06:14 AM
ryanmartini

a teraflop you say?

FOLD ON! :D
06-13-2008, 06:42 AM
v_rr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

You could put it like this:

"ATI pre-release and release drivers suck, so when G92b arrives, I hope Cat 8.7 or 8.8 can pull a miracle off and actually compete with them"

Giving 4 examples as performance kept in a box is not a fact. It's hope.

Fact is, for now, we know HD4850 is performance equivalent to an 8800GT, I am not saying it's its final performance, I just wouldn't hope big performance increases.

1- G92b is made to 9800GT
2- G92b is equal to G92. There aren´t any arquitectural changes. The arquitectural changes are caled GT200.
3- 9800GT will carry G92b. It will have versions with G92 and other with G92b, so clocks will be the same. Nvidia are playing very carreful with 55nm.
4- Even with G92b there are no miracles when you only can increase Core clocks. You get 5-10% performance jump Max. Or just pick one G92, put it on Overclock and there you have your G92b performance.

5 and Last- By performance figures known HD 4850 is heading agains 9800GTX and not 8800GT. Your called fact can only come from one Nv fanboy arround here. You can say that HD 4850 come to prices of 8800GT but with performance of 9800GTX. That´s the speculation that we have seen by all those numbers coming out.
06-13-2008, 06:45 AM
Slay0r

Quote:

Originally Posted by v_rr

1- G92b is made to 9800GT
2- G92b is equal to G92. There aren´t any arquitectural changes. The arquitectural changes are caled GT200.
3- 9800GT will carry G92b. It will have versions with G92 and other with G92b, so clocks will be the same. Nvidia are playing very carreful with 55nm.
4- Even with G92b there are no miracles when you only can increase Core clocks. You get 5-10% performance jump Max.

5 and Last- By performance figures known HD 4850 is heading agains 9800GTX and not 8800GT. Your called fact can only come from one Nv fanboy arround here. You can say that HD 4850 come to prices of 8800GT but with performance of 9800GTX. That´s the speculation.

Fixed
06-13-2008, 06:52 AM
v_rr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slay0r

Fixed

That´s absolutely right :up:
06-13-2008, 07:00 AM
Luka_Aveiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by v_rr

1- G92b is made to 9800GT
2- G92b is equal to G92. There aren´t any arquitectural changes. The arquitectural changes are caled GT200.
3- 9800GT will carry G92b. It will have versions with G92 and other with G92b, so clocks will be the same. Nvidia are playing very carreful with 55nm.
4- Even with G92b there are no miracles when you only can increase Core clocks. You get 5-10% performance jump Max.

5 and Last- By performance figures known HD 4850 is heading agains 9800GTX and not 8800GT. Your called fact can only come from one Nv fanboy arround here. You can say that HD 4850 come to prices of 8800GT but with performance of 9800GTX. That´s the fact that we have seen by all those numbers coming out.

1 - Or is it to 9900GT? :rolleyes:
2 - Architectural and not arquitechtural. It's an English forum, not a Portuguese-english one (I already told you that)...
3 - A credible link to that would be worth considering, and that rumors come from April, IIRC.
4 - That is something you just don't know, you are guessing, as always :rolleyes:
5 and Last - By performance figures known, HD4850 is giving as much performance as an 8800GT, 4GHZ 12MB cache Quad-Core does the 15k magic number. I will search the ORB to show you that ;)

Stay tuned.
06-13-2008, 07:22 AM
Macadamia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

1 - Or is it to 9900GT? :rolleyes:
2 - Architectural and not arquitechtural. It's an English forum, not a Portuguese-english one (I already told you that)...
3 - A credible link to that would be worth considering, and that rumors come from April, IIRC.
4 - That is something you just don't know, you are guessing, as always :rolleyes:
5 and Last - By performance figures known, HD4850 is giving as much performance as an 8800GT, 4GHZ 12MB cache Quad-Core does the 15k magic number. I will search the ORB to show you that ;)

Stay tuned.

See? I predicted that you'd be laughable still.
06-13-2008, 07:28 AM
003

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

Yup :)

:)

Nope. :)

That is with Cat 8.5, which has been out for a while now :p: Beta of 8.6 actually lowers performance.

And keep in mind, there are only so many driver optimizations and improvements they can make. The card is after all using the same architecture as the 2900, and the optimizations being made that work for the 2900 are very close to the same as for the HD4000 series, and they have likely long since exhausted most of the optimizations.
06-13-2008, 07:29 AM
informal

Luka ,CPU score in 3dmark06 plays much smaller role(than the SM scores) in overall score.Just download 3dmark06 calculator and you'll see it for yourself :).
The same PowerColor 4850 card with those OCbench clocks would score ~14400 with Yorkfield QC @3Ghz(CPU score is between 4200-4400 for this CPU@that clock in SP1 XP).
4870 will score around ~16000 with QC@3Ghz, if 25-30% faster than 4850 holds water(i calculated with 20% faster!).
If Charlie is correct here ,GTX280 will get around 15750.
But then again,these are 3Dmarks,we need real games to compare :).
06-13-2008, 07:31 AM
Luka_Aveiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macadamia

See? I predicted that you'd be laughable still.

Nice to know someone ignorant has a laugh over truth. :ROTF:

Too bad ORB cannot filter correctly Single vs Multi GPU, guess I'll have to ask a friend to bring a Q6600 (less 4mb cache over qx9650) to my place and bench it at 4ghz with stock 8800GT to show you HD4850+Qx9650@4ghz=15k is equivalent 9800GTX's score is yes laughable.

The difference is I know what I am talking about, you are clueless.

regards :)

Edit: My opinion is just the same as this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003

Nope. :)

That is with Cat 8.5, which has been out for a while now :p: Beta of 8.6 actually lowers performance.

And keep in mind, there are only so many driver optimizations and improvements they can make. The card is after all using the same architecture as the 2900, and the optimizations being made that work for the 2900 are very close to the same as for the HD4000 series, and they have likely long since exhausted most of the optimizations.

I really think HD4850 should be superior to an 8800GT, but with those scores IT IS NOT, actually. I hope they bring performance improvements with new drivers (not very likely but possible), I just can't hear people say it's better than an 8800GT nowadays when it is not.
06-13-2008, 07:38 AM
perkam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

Nice to know someone ignorant has a laugh over truth. :ROTF:

Too bad ORB cannot filter correctly Single vs Multi GPU, guess I'll have to ask a friend to bring a Q6600 (less 4mb cache over qx9650) to my place and bench it at 4ghz with stock 8800GT to show you HD4850+Qx9650@4ghz=15k is equivalent 9800GTX's score is yes laughable.

The difference is I know what I am talking about, you are clueless.

regards :)

The 9800GT is coming...and it will be priced around the HD 4850:

http://www.nordichardware.com/image3.php?id=5193

http://www.nordichardware.com/image3.php?id=5191

It has the exact same specs as the 8800GT and should have similar clocks too, though I don't know to what extend higher clocks will help against the new mainstream monster :)

The performance will only be decided when actual reviews are out. The ATI cards beating faster Nvidia cards is no surprise in benchmarks...it's happened before and seeing as the 9800GTX was far from being faster than the 8800GTX, I wouldn't be surprised if the 4850 comes close to it. The 9800GTX's real competitor will be the HD 4870, at least until the 9900GTX (G92b) comes out.

EDIT: Even if you cut ATI's own predictions for the 4850 by half, you still get a monster of a card for $229: http://www.nordichardware.com/image3.php?id=5227 especially with what it can do in benchmarks :)

Perkam
06-13-2008, 07:56 AM
Extelleron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

1 - Or is it to 9900GT? :rolleyes:
2 - Architectural and not arquitechtural. It's an English forum, not a Portuguese-english one (I already told you that)...
3 - A credible link to that would be worth considering, and that rumors come from April, IIRC.
4 - That is something you just don't know, you are guessing, as always :rolleyes:
5 and Last - By performance figures known, HD4850 is giving as much performance as an 8800GT, 4GHZ 12MB cache Quad-Core does the 15k magic number. I will search the ORB to show you that ;)

Stay tuned.

And 3D Mark 06 proves what? Exactly nothing. I can't believe people are still looking at 3D Mark 06 scores and judging performance based on them. It's pure ignorance.

AMD's slides show that the HD 4850 is 30-50% faster than the 8800GT, and I believe that will prove true on launch day.

G92b is nothing but a 55nm shrink of G92, and 55nm provides no increase in transistor performance over 65nm. The only thing G92b will bring is lower power consumption and cheaper manufacturing costs. It will not help fight against RV770 performance wise.

The HD 4850 is ready for pre order @ $199, so I would not be surprised if you will be able to get it cheaper than that very soon. I would expect HD 4850 to be competitive with the 8800GT/9800GT in pricing before long, and there will be no competition in performance between the two. nVidia could lower 9800GTX to $199, but then they will make zero profit.
06-13-2008, 07:59 AM
perkam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Extelleron

And 3D Mark 06 proves what? Exactly nothing. I can't believe people are still looking at 3D Mark 06 scores and judging performance based on them. It's pure ignorance.

AMD's slides show that the HD 4850 is 30-50% faster than the 8800GT, and I believe that will prove true on launch day.

G92b is nothing but a 55nm shrink of G92, and 55nm provides no increase in transistor performance over 65nm. The only thing G92b will bring is lower power consumption and cheaper manufacturing costs. It will not help fight against RV770 performance wise.

I would never take a tone that pessismistic against an Nvidia fan, because there are rumours out there that the 4870 might end up being $349 due to GDDR5 cost.

In addiiton, the slides show 20-40% and you need to half those to get the unbiased marks, so 10-20% at max.

The GTX 260 is cause for worry for ATI, as well as a reasonably priced 9900GTX in July.

ATI, by no means, has it easy, but neither does Nvidia. I just go around and dispell the myths until the reviews come out :rofl:

Perkam
06-13-2008, 08:12 AM
v_rr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

1 - Or is it to 9900GT? :rolleyes:

Nvidia First 55nm Desktop Graphics; GeForce 9800 GT
http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/Nvid...0_GT/5714.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

4 - That is something you just don't know, you are guessing, as always :rolleyes:

it prety obvious :yepp:
G92b can only increase core/shader clock. There are no arquitectural changes. Overclock one G92 and you get G92b in performance numbers.
Actualy by this, the clocks look similar to a standart 8800GT:
http://www.nordichardware.com/image3.php?id=5193

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

5 and Last - By performance figures known, HD4850 is giving as much performance as an 8800GT, 4GHZ 12MB cache Quad-Core does the 15k magic number. I will search the ORB to show you that ;)

3dmark 2006 gives you that, but vantage in Xtreme setings gives X2800 (tested by a user in this forum). Xtreme setings are high resolution with AA and AF. 3dmark 2006 give 1280 res, no AA, no AF.
In 3dmark 2006 GTX280 gives 17K = far from reality. Vey far. GTX280 is much faster then that
Games:
http://diybbs.pconline.com.cn/topic.jsp?tid=8725790

As stated earlier we are working on speculation, but till now any speculation gives HD 4850 = 8800GT. Only 3dmark 2006, but the same 3dmark 2006 give you GTX280 scoring very low numbers, when everyone know thats far from reality.

If we move to 3dmark Vantage Xtreme it gives HD 4850 far from 8800GT and gives GTX280 far from any other cards. Pretty obvious that vantage Xtreme setings is being more acurate then 3dmark 2006 and GTX280 proves that.
06-13-2008, 08:14 AM
Luka_Aveiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

I would never take a tone that pessismistic against an Nvidia fan, because there are rumours out there that the 4870 might end up being $349 due to GDDR5 cost.

If that was intended to me, I will be so pleased when I'll show you all that Quad@4Ghz plus 8800GT@stock surpasses 15k (as as I manage to be able to run 3dmark2006 on Vista, OpenAl problems FTL).

Calling me fanboy just because I want to show you are not correct about HD4850 numbers is sad. It really is.
06-13-2008, 08:19 AM
perkam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

If that was intended to me, I will be so pleased when I'll show you all that Quad@4Ghz plus 8800GT@stock surpasses 15k (as as I manage to be able to run 3dmark2006 on Vista, OpenAl problems FTL).

Calling me fanboy just because I want to show you are not correct about HD4850 numbers is sad. It really is.

lol You're not a fanboy...yet :)

There are millions of Nvidia fans. I am an AMD/ATI fan, have been for a long time (or at least for as long as they have been the underdogs). You become a fanboy when you disregard the achievements of the other side completely, and begin to make statements over and over again, out of the context of the thread, and without proof.

And no it wasn't intended to you :) I'm sure an 8800GT does very well, and will give run the 4850 a run for its money, but the 4850 is no slouch and will be very worth the price, especially for all those benchers out there.

Perkam
06-13-2008, 08:30 AM
v_rr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

If that was intended to me, I will be so pleased when I'll show you all that Quad@4Ghz plus 8800GT@stock surpasses 15k (as as I manage to be able to run 3dmark2006 on Vista, OpenAl problems FTL).

Show us 8800GT scoring X2800 in 3dmark Vantagem extreme setings ;)

Quote:

but that being said it scored X2808 (very pretty slideshow) with 4ghz Quad and card at stock clocks and default image quality.(balanced) no tweaks whatsoever to vista, set just like my daily use.GPU score BTW was 15676

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=2396

Or:
http://publish.it168.com/diy/showBig...id=1039056.jpg
http://publish.it168.com/2008/0610/20080610041604.shtml

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