Official MSI P7N Diamond (780i) Discussion/Review/Overclock/Guide/BIOS Thread

Overspeed,

I mounted the ASUS fan in the picture to the NB radiator, It fits fine and plugs right to the motherboard, see picture. The fan may look like it sitting on the Vid card, but it actually clipped to the radiator. It looks like my radiator temp is running about 3-4C cooler with the fan. You might get better results since the airflow at your radiator is more restricted than mine.

With respect to the NB tempreature. If you look at the from of my rig, there is a blue temp monitoring panel. I use a point thermal probe connected to the panel to monitor LCS temps off the waterblock. I can also use it to point check board components like the NB or the Radiator (which btw was at about 66C for my last test series).

TheYipster - I finished my 3.5GHz stability test. 12 hours Prime95 25.5 small FFTs. Here are the settings: FSB 1555, DRAM 800 (777 adjusted), VCore 0.2250, DRAM 2.10, NB 1.45, FSB Term 25. Mem 4-4-4-13-1T. All other settings to AUTO. Temps: Core 61C, Tmpin0 49C, Tmpin1 60C. See signature for system specs.

I'm configuring for 3.6GHz run, should have some results tomorrow.

I called MSI today to see if they could identify exactly where the two board thermal sensors are located (not the CPU). They had no info, so I put a post on their forum. If you have contact with any MSI engineers - could you ask them.

X-Built, your build looks very nice, clean and uncluttered. While I am not able to go the watercooled route at this time, I'll have to stick with my air cooler. So you are able to monitor NB somehow with your watercooler ... would there be any way for someone in my position to somehow monitor these temps? Is there hardware I can buy and install that would do this? The handheld heat probes are rather expensive, I would be looking for something that could be installed right in the case without having to remove the circu-pipe to make work. Thanx much for your feedback thus far.

Unfortunately that ASUS fan will not fit in my rig, as my giant cpu cooler actually hangs over the NB rollercoaster a bit, I will need to research other options. I wonder though if 3-4C would really have a long term impact. First thing I need to figure out is ... with my reduced air flow what are my NB temps in a no OC scenario under load, what are the temps during an OC under load, and what are the max safe temps the NB can handle. I also wonder what the effect would be if I removed two of my DIMMs ... instead of running 4x1GB, run 2x2GB. I have heard less DIMMs reduces demand on NB, but what that would mean in the way of temps is unknown to me.

Finally one thing everyone seems to be getting on my case about is the RAM that is in my system. The store I bought it from selected for me the Transcend Axeram OC Series PC2-8500 5-5-5-15 @ 1066. In recent days I have spoken to some REAL experts in this field and if I remember correctly they suggested I use a type of RAM that has a ... D9 chip?!?!? Does that make sense to anyone? If so I would love some recommendations on a 2x2GB kit either 800 or 1066.

Super finally, theYipster recently asked me the batch of my E8400. I bit the bullet and disassembled my rig so here is the number: Q745A830. Hope that means something to you :)

X-Built-Stan,

Congrats on the test... very nice timings on the RAM. Kudos on the 1T :) Question though: how did you end up with 3.5ghz if FSB was set to 1600? Unfortunately I'm not in touch with any MSI engineers, but Aaron Yuri on the MSI forums has been responsive in answering technical questions. On the reference board, NB and SB could be read in the BIOS, but I don't there is a way to see an actual NB temp in Windows. The next best thing was the SB temp reported by Everest. Right now, I'm merely ballparking NB temps by keeping an eye on the motherboard temp reading and feeling the warmth of the heat pipes. Best I can do at the moment, as I don't have my NB watercooled, nor do I have temp gauge in my loop.

Overspeed,

Right now I don't have any suggestions on accurate ways to read NB temps. If there are sensor points, you could hook up a temp monitor once we know the correct readouts from MSI. Alternatively, if you had a water loop cooling the NB, you could install a simple thermometer to read the temp of the water in that loop, which gives an indirect idea of NB temps. As mentioned above, I'm simply going by motherboard temp and feel. If the rollercoaster fins feel like they'll burn your skin if you touch it too long, that's not good.

If you are concerned about NB temps but can't fit a fan, another thing you can try is to replace the stock TIM (thermal grease) sitting between the heat pipes and the chip itself. For this, you'll have to remove the MB from the case, but doing this is indeed good practice, as many MB manufacturers are careless when it comes to applying the right amount of TIM for the chips and mosfets. If you're up for it, remove the entire heat pipe circuit from the NB, SB, expander, and mosfets. This should be relatively simple, as the heatpipe system uses plastic snap-ins similar to those used on Intel's stock CPU cooler. Then, inspect the amount of TIM applied to the NB, SB, PCI-E chip, and mosfets. If it looks like there's too much or not enough, you can replace it. If you do this, be sure to use a non-conductive paste like Arctic Silver Ceramique, as AS5 is slightly conductive and can be dangerous to use on these components -- especially the mosfets.

As for the RAM, I'm not sure what the issues are. If your RAM is rated to 1066mhz, then it shouldn't have a problem supporting an overclock up to 4.5ghz. However, it's always best to run your RAM 1:1 when finding your processor's overclock, so you don't necessarily want your RAM set to 1066mhz until you're happy with your processor's performance. As for Micron D9 chips, they're a type of IC, the underlying memory chip used in RAM. Every stick of DDR-2 RAM employs a set of a particularly vendor's IC (memory chip.) RAM that uses certain versions of Micron D9 ICs is very popular with the enthusiast crowd, as they're excellent overclockers. However, they're not available in 2 gig sticks. Furthermore, they're best used in PC-6400 modules, as D9 equipped 6400 modules can match PC-8500 performance w/o the premium price. Don't worry that you're RAM doesn't have D9 chips, as you don't need to replace your RAM with sticks that do.

As for your batch, Q745 seems to be a mixed bag (from my limited knowledge,) although most should be capable of 4.0ghz. With your batch knowledge in hand, you'll want to read the many pages of the E8400 overclockers thread on this forum. You'll see what others have been able to do with chips from the same 745 batch. If you start at the beginning, be sure to read until the end, as the first 10 or so pages are filled with comments from the early adopters. Good batch data isn't available until many people have posted their findings. Also, you may want to investigate whether or not your processor is reporting temps correctly. Many early E8400s were not, although I'm not sure if this was a problem with the chips, the temp reporting software, or the BIOSes on motherboards.

Does anyone here use a thermalright ultra extreme with this board I know you have to to turn it 90degress but I want to know the clearence i would have if i put my 120mm fan under the heatsink pushing air up?

theYipster,

Sorry, I misquoted the FSB on the 3.5Ghz run, it has been corrected in the post. FSB was 1555. I was writting the post on one system and prepping the 3.6GHz run on Mercury.

Overspeed,

Thanks for compliment on the rig. I love building these beasts. With respect to the temperature probe. I am using the Thermaltake T-type water temperature indicator (the lighted panel on from of my rig). The temperature probe can be unplugged and another probe used. Here is the link.

http://www.google.com/products?q=CL-...=next&start=10

For the tempeature probe , Koolance offers a cheap one that will plugs into the monitoring panel. Here is the link.

http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=100

Set it up and use the probe to find the hottest spot on the NB sink near the chip. Once found, use a thermal adhesive to mount the probe pemanently.
That should take care of your need. Total cost less than $40. You might want to pick up an extra temp sensor (cheap ~$4). Then you can simply plug it in and probe other board areas if needed.

Hope that helps.

Loonym, you might be right. Purchased the Noctua about 6 months ago, I used it on 4 different motherboards since then and the cooling performance never really impressed me. The Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro performed better cooling my old P4. So I have mounted the cooler multiple times and when I remove it the paste is even and nice. Got people visiting this weekend, so no time for playing with hardware until next week.

BTW, do I need the a rpm-wire on my casefans for the motherboard to be able to control it? they only run at full speed with no option to control them from BIOS or Dual Core Center.

I have been getting the occasionally BSOD since i got this board. I read that the EVGA board has problems with "media sheild" under windows XP is it the same for the MSI aswell??. I had it installed and i've kept getting a BSOD usually when i use my DVD drive to watch a DVD, burn a disc or install a game. Anyone else getting this problem with media sheild installed with the motherboard drivers?? The BSOD says "DRIVER IRQL NOT LESS OR EQUAL".

Any help is appreciated, thanks.


My system spec:-

Intel Core2 Quad Q6600 G0
MSI P7N Diamond V1.0 with 9.46 drivers
DDR2 Crucial Ballistix 2gig PC6400
2 X BFG 8800 GTX with 169.28 drivers
850W Enermax Galaxy PSU
BenQ FP241W 24" @ 1920x1200
Samsung SH-S183L Lightscribe drive
Razer Copperhead Mouse
Saitek Eclipse Keyboard
Windows XP 32bit

MagicMan,

I'm assuming you have a SATA optical drive. Unfortunately this is a common bug with XP-32 and all nForce 780i boards. There are two things you can try. First, try plugging the Sata cable into a different port. While I normally use Vista, I have XP-32 currently setup for benching, and was able to solve the same problem with my optical drive by simply moving it to a different port. If this does not work, your next best bet is to remove the nVidia drivers from your Windows installation and use the defaults instead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theYipster

MagicMan,

I'm assuming you have a SATA optical drive. Unfortunately this is a common bug with XP-32 and all nForce 780i boards. There are two things you can try. First, try plugging the Sata cable into a different port. While I normally use Vista, I have XP-32 currently setup for benching, and was able to solve the same problem with my optical drive by simply moving it to a different port. If this does not work, your next best bet is to remove the nVidia drivers from your Windows installation and use the defaults instead.

---

Hi, thanks for the reply :) .

Yeah, i'm using a samsung SATA optical drive. Thanks for the tips i'll try later as its 4 in the morning right now :p: . I've had the board 3 weeks now and i love it, everything has been working fine, except for this annoying BSOD which appears out of nowhere, but it makes sense as i didn't have the BSOD for 2 weeks and in that time i never used my drive once and this morning i was installing a game and BAM! BSOD :( . I was beginning to think the board just didn't like my RAM or something.

Also is the bug still there using XP64? As i have another 2gigs of memory just sitting here and i'm wanting to use them.

Thanks

Wouldn't know. I don't, nor woudln't run XP-64 on a home/gaming rig. I do know that it isn't an issue on Vista.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theYipster

MagicMan,

I'm assuming you have a SATA optical drive. Unfortunately this is a common bug with XP-32 and all nForce 780i boards. There are two things you can try. First, try plugging the Sata cable into a different port. While I normally use Vista, I have XP-32 currently setup for benching, and was able to solve the same problem with my optical drive by simply moving it to a different port. If this does not work, your next best bet is to remove the nVidia drivers from your Windows installation and use the defaults instead.

---

i am also getting bsod when i use my sata dvd rom i did try a dif port but it still happens, could you explain what driver to un install, or should i just remove all drivers except display then install ??? or not witch drivers not i am not using any ide hardware, thanks wolf, and also the beta bios did not fix the multi problem for the qx9650!!!!

Wolf, what beta bios did you try? I've heard that 1.1B4 has improved overclocking for 45nm chips.

If moving to a different socket doesn't work, then uninstall all nvidia drivers except display. Then when you reinstall, do not install MediaShield. Note that if you are using 4gigs of RAM, you will be better off using Vista x64.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolf1974

i am also getting bsod when i use my sata dvd rom i did try a dif port but it still happens, could you explain what driver to un install, or should i just remove all drivers except display then install ??? or not witch drivers not i am not using any ide hardware, thanks wolf, and also the beta bios did not fix the multi problem for the qx9650!!!!

---

You should remove the sata drivers. Those are the issue. MS default drivers seem to work fine on my system. I don't have the yorkfield but with my q6600 I can only change multis with bios .P05

http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?topic=115073.0

Loonym,

I see that on the MSI forum you mentioned that you're running your Q6600 with a 400mhz FSB. Are you stable, and if so, what are your voltage settings?

Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loonym

You should remove the sata drivers. Those are the issue. MS default drivers seem to work fine on my system. I don't have the yorkfield but with my q6600 I can only change multis with bios .P05

http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?topic=115073.0

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is bios .p05 the newest?? and if so could you email it to me??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theYipster

Wolf, what beta bios did you try? I've heard that 1.1B4 has improved overclocking for 45nm chips.

If moving to a different socket doesn't work, then uninstall all nvidia drivers except display. Then when you reinstall, do not install MediaShield. Note that if you are using 4gigs of RAM, you will be better off using Vista x64.

---

it ended in .111

Wolf,

Beta BIOSes are available from MSI moderators and on the MSI fourm at http://forum.msi.com.tw. You need to register in order to get the latest beta BIOSes. When you do, you'll notice a subform for "BETA and User Made BIOSES" in the Overclocking forum. From there you can find the latest P05 and 1.1B4 BIOses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theYipster

Wolf,

Beta BIOSes are available from MSI moderators and on the MSI fourm at http://forum.msi.com.tw. You need to register in order to get the latest beta BIOSes. When you do, you'll notice a subform for "BETA and User Made BIOSES" in the Overclocking forum. From there you can find the latest P05 and 1.1B4 BIOses.

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i trie to register but they say my email witch is hotmail is not valid, could you email them to me???

No email necessary wolf, just go to that link at msi forum and d/l from there.

Yipster, I can run 400 stable, yes. I really haven't been using this 24/7 because my cooling isn't great and my house is hot. I have q6600 G0 batch L737A702, VID 1.2875.
Bios settings @400x8 with .P05
system clock mode manual
dram 800MHz 4-4-4-15 1T all other dram timings auto
cpu voltage .10000
dram voltage 2.00
nb voltage 1.300
sb voltage 1.525
nb gtl ref voltage 25
fsb terminator voltage 50
all others auto

bios hw monitor shows me vcore 1.344-1.352 (very slow fluctuation) and cpuz says 1.360 idle and 1.328 load

edit: I don't see an addy for you anywhere wolf

Hi all,

First and foremost, I have a big win to report. I believe I've obtained the first successful non-extreme Kentsfield Quad bench above 4.0ghz on the P7N Diamond. It can be done :)

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4...enchsw7.th.jpg

The processor is a watercooled Q6600 G0 Batch L737B277 with a VID of 1.2375. The chipset is using the standard circupipe cooling, but I did buy an Antec Spot Cool to blow air over the NB. It seems to be doing a reasonable job.

Here are my OC settings and voltages:

Beta BIOS 1.1B4
Proc: 4.05ghz (450 x 9)
FSB: 1800 (450 x 4)
RAM: 900 (450 x 2)
RAM Timings: 5-5-5-15-2T (sub-timings on auto)

vCore: Max set in BIOS (haven't benched lower, but it may be possible.)
vDimm: 2.1
NB: 1.55
SB: 1.65
Gtl REF: 65
FSB Term: 35

all other voltages on auto.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Second, and less spectacularly, I'm still having a bit of trouble stabilizing at 3.6ghz. I've cornered it down to the same thing every time. The computer will eventually freeze (not blue screen or reboot, but freeze) at around 10 minutes of Prime 95 or between 2 and 5 minutes of OCCT (RAM stress.)

My current settings for 3.6ghz stable are as follows:

Beta BIOS 1.1B4
Proc: 3.6ghz (400 x 9)
FSB: 1600 (400 x 4)
RAM: 800 (400 x 2)
RAM Timings: 5-4-4-13-2T (default EPP timings)

vCore: 1.4375 (+2.000v set in BIOS)
vDimm: 2.1
NB: 1.4
SB: 1.55
Gtl REF: 65
FSB Term: 35

My guess is that the issue lies with the NB or SB, with RAM being the third option. I don't think it's the processor, based upon VID, batch, and the type of errors I'm getting (freezes, nothing else.)

I'm learning more about how NB and SB voltages effect the system, as well as how all of the reference, gtl, and terminator voltages interact (MSI's odd BIOS settings make this all the more difficult.) However, I'm still guessing at places, and without the ability to pinpoint a single voltage that's causing the freezing, it's becoming a bit tiresome. I've tried upping NB to 1.45 and SB 1.6 but can't seem to prevent the freezing. Perhaps its a combination of the two, or perhaps my FSB Terminator voltage is off. If anyone has any ideas on what could be causing this freezing, that would be great going forward.

Seeing that I can bench at 4.05ghz, I should be able to find stability at 3.6ghz. It's just a matter of time, and as always, further explanation of MSI's unique voltage settings always helps :)

Thanks everyone!

Great work Yipster!! :up:
I can only restate that my particular setup doesn't appear to be very forgiving of elevated nb voltage past perhaps 1.35. The key to any successes I've had are by experimenting with gtl and termination voltages. I only wish I had a better understanding of the actual values as they apply to the ami bios used on this board.

Loonym,

Thanks :) A stable 400mhz FSB with less than 1.4v on the NB is quite impressive for any 780i chipset based board. I'm still in the process of discovering how the GTL and FSB Term settings relate to actual voltage, but Aaron Yuri over at the MSI forums was able to shed some light on FSB Term. Apparently, the min setting (which I suppose is 1, not -80) relates to 1.2v, while the max of 63 relates to 1.6v.

He also says that he's getting a board, and once it arrives he'll hopefully be able to dig in and provide more info on these mystery settings.

theYipster,

I am currently finishing a 12hr run at 3.6GHz stable on Mercury (see signature) - 1 hour to go. After the run I will post my settings.

Congrats on the 4.0GHz run. Really fantastic. I would love to be able to get there stable, but fear my LCS can't support the load. I did get a 3.7GHz run last night long enough to get 3DMark06 score of 19180.

After the I complete the 12 hour run today, I'm tearing down and lapping my chip. Core temps are running 65-67C at sustained full load.

With respect to the terminator voltages, I have been going under the assumption that they are a percentage of the parent voltage either added or subtracted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theYipster

Hi all,

First and foremost, I have a big win to report. I believe I've obtained the first successful non-extreme Kentsfield Quad bench above 4.0ghz on the P7N Diamond. It can be done :)

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4...enchsw7.th.jpg

The processor is a watercooled Q6600 G0 Batch L737B277 with a VID of 1.2375. The chipset is using the standard circupipe cooling, but I did buy an Antec Spot Cool to blow air over the NB. It seems to be doing a reasonable job.

Here are my OC settings and voltages:
i sent ya my email could ya send me .p05??? or the newest or what you think is best for my 9650,,,,,
Beta BIOS 1.1B4
Proc: 4.05ghz (450 x 9)
FSB: 1800 (450 x 4)
RAM: 900 (450 x 2)
RAM Timings: 5-5-5-15-2T (sub-timings on auto)

vCore: Max set in BIOS (haven't benched lower, but it may be possible.)
vDimm: 2.1
NB: 1.55
SB: 1.65
Gtl REF: 65
FSB Term: 35

all other voltages on auto.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Second, and less spectacularly, I'm still having a bit of trouble stabilizing at 3.6ghz. I've cornered it down to the same thing every time. The computer will eventually freeze (not blue screen or reboot, but freeze) at around 10 minutes of Prime 95 or between 2 and 5 minutes of OCCT (RAM stress.)

My current settings for 3.6ghz stable are as follows:

Beta BIOS 1.1B4
Proc: 3.6ghz (400 x 9)
FSB: 1600 (400 x 4)
RAM: 800 (400 x 2)
RAM Timings: 5-4-4-13-2T (default EPP timings)

vCore: 1.4375 (+2.000v set in BIOS)
vDimm: 2.1
NB: 1.4
SB: 1.55
Gtl REF: 65
FSB Term: 35

My guess is that the issue lies with the NB or SB, with RAM being the third option. I don't think it's the processor, based upon VID, batch, and the type of errors I'm getting (freezes, nothing else.)

I'm learning more about how NB and SB voltages effect the system, as well as how all of the reference, gtl, and terminator voltages interact (MSI's odd BIOS settings make this all the more difficult.) However, I'm still guessing at places, and without the ability to pinpoint a single voltage that's causing the freezing, it's becoming a bit tiresome. I've tried upping NB to 1.45 and SB 1.6 but can't seem to prevent the freezing. Perhaps its a combination of the two, or perhaps my FSB Terminator voltage is off. If anyone has any ideas on what could be causing this freezing, that would be great going forward.

Seeing that I can bench at 4.05ghz, I should be able to find stability at 3.6ghz. It's just a matter of time, and as always, further explanation of MSI's unique voltage settings always helps :)

Thanks everyone!

---

i sent you my email could you send me the .p05 bios or the best one for my 9650 thanks wolf

Wolf, theYipster,

I completed the 3.6Ghz 12hr Prime95 v25.5 samll FFT test on Mercury. No failures occured. :up: I have attached a picture of the results and showing the temperatures. The settings probably still need some fine tuning but here they are:

D.O.T Control - Disabled
Intel EIST - Disabled
SLI-Ready Memory - Expert
FSB Clock (MHz) - 1600
DRAM Clock (MHz) - 800 (Adjusted also 800)
Adjust CPU Ratio - 9
Adjust PCI-E Frequency (MHz) 100
Auto Disable DRAM/PCI Frequency - Disabled
CPU Voltage (V) - 0.28750
DRAM Voltage (V) - 2.10
NB Voltage (V) - 1.425
SB Voltage (V) - Auto
NB Memory Reference Voltage - Auto
DIMM Memory Reference Voltage - Auto
Memory Terminator Voltage - Auto
CPU GTL Reference Voltage - 65
NB GTL Reference Voltage - Auto
FSB Terminator Voltage - 25
SB Sleep Mode Voltage - Auto
PCI Expander PLL Voltage - Auto
Spread Spectrun - Disabled

Memory Settings - Manual
CAS Latency - 4
tRCD - 4
tRP - 4
tRAS - 11
tRRD - Auto
tRC - 20
tWR - Auto
tWTR - Auto
tRef - Auto
1T/2T Memory Timings - 2T

Give them a try an post your results.

Inspired by Wolf, I may make a quick run at 4Ghz to see if I can get a 3DMark06 score before I lap the chip.