Crysis CPU benchmark: QX6850 VS QX9650 VS PhenomX4

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Originally Posted by Shadowmage

It's not the FSB. The NB controls important factors like the L3 cache speed. In this case, the L3 cache is effectively running at ~50% speed (3GHz/1.6GHz).

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Is HT link speed=NB speed ?

AFAIK all K10 on Ht 2.0 will run their NB at 1.6GHz.

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Originally Posted by savantu

This is funny ( or pretty sad depending on how you see it ).

AMD plans to ramp 45nm in H1 2008 and is building CPUs as we speak on 45nm ( if we were to believe Ruiz ) , yet , 3 months ago they didn't know which way to go on 45nm.

As for the 40% claim , nothing is free my dear Watson.The ceteris paribus condition isn't fulfilled.They might get 40% , but the trade offs aren't shown.

As for High-K and metal gates , that's the most significant change in silicon technology in 40 years ; it's a turning point in addressing future scaling.
Claiming that it doesn't matter and will somehow be mitigated by herculean efforts with SGOI and low-k is just a refusal to accept the reality : IBM/AMD did not have the R&D , money and brainpower to implement this features in a timely manner.

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Please reread what i wrote. I did not say that metal gates and high-k do not matter. I said just because Intel has them does not make their process superior by default. There is a lot more to it. Also care to elaborate on the drawbacks of SGOI? The only one i can think of is increased manufacturing complexity. As for the last part :rolleyes:

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Actually Xeons are binned conservatively , closet to their worst case scenario.Intel also uses slower , less leakier transistors because their offer better reliability.

As for the "clear sign" this might be obvious only to you since Intel plans to crossover to 45nm in Q3 2008.
Compared to AMD's volume , Intel's 45nm process will be high volume starting with this Q.

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:shrug: What i meant is that Intel is using all the good dies for Xeons and therefore desktop products have a higher TDP. And Intel needs to have more fabs online to have high volume this quarter. It is a fact that they will start 45nm production at 2 more fabs this Q so Q1 should see increased availability and in Q2 they should be easy to find.

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Originally Posted by savantu

Is HT link speed=NB speed ?

AFAIK all K10 on Ht 2.0 will run their NB at 1.6GHz.

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Not true to my knowledge. The Barcelona NB speed depends upon whether the board has dual power plane or not. If it does the NB run at 200 mhz below clock speed if not then 400 mhz below clock speed.

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Originally Posted by PhilDoc

Not true to my knowledge. The Barcelona NB speed depends upon whether the board has dual power plane or not. If it does the NB run at 200 mhz below clock speed if not then 400 mhz below clock speed.

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that means this isn't a comparison afterall?

3.0ghz stock phenom would be 2.6ghz nb? while it's now at 1.6ghz?:rolleyes:

someone that dare sto say 1000Mhz makes no difference?:D

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Originally Posted by savantu

Huh ?

The 1600MHz HT links offers 6.4GBs of BW and low latency.That's more than enough since the memory traffic isn't there.

This is simply grasping for straws...

Another nice one : RAM running at 800 CL5.

Hello world : 99% of DDR2 800 in this world runs at CL5.
Hello world take 2 : using better RAM improves the scores.But this is also true for the Intel platform.

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hai mai lasa mah! :D

u si intel lol

This is worth seeing : http://www.matbe.com/articles/lire/5...-ghz/page6.php

130w TDP my *ss.

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Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR

I said just because Intel has them does not make their process superior by default.

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This is absurd.It makes the process vastly superior.

http://www.matbe.com/images/biblio/a...0000063320.png

http://www.matbe.com/images/biblio/a...0000063321.png

Is it clear now ? ( no theory , just practice )

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There is a lot more to it. Also care to elaborate on the drawbacks of SGOI? The only one i can think of is increased manufacturing complexity....

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Well , think more then.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...7&postcount=44

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Originally Posted by savantu

This is worth seeing : http://www.matbe.com/articles/lire/5...-ghz/page6.php

130w TDP my *ss.

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At least they could try make their FUD believable. Why the hell would Intel slab a high TDP on the processor when it does not have high power consumption :down:

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Originally Posted by savantu

This is absurd.It makes the process vastly superior.

http://www.matbe.com/images/biblio/a...0000063320.png

http://www.matbe.com/images/biblio/a...0000063321.png

Is it clear now ? ( no theory , just practice )


Well , think more then.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...7&postcount=44

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show us some 65nm at 3.0ghz please.

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Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR

At least they could try make their FUD believable. Why the hell would Intel slab a high TDP on the processor when it does not have high power consumption :down:

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Because they are using family TDPs and not individual ones.

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Originally Posted by mongoled

Hello Mr Shintai, who joined XS on Aug 2006 and has already racked up over 2000 posts.

Your persona fits perfectly in line with those who in my opinion have devalued the essense of XS. Although your knowledge evidently extends far beyond whats green and blue you also are the most frustrating type of poster.

How can someone who obviously has a respectable level of IQ be so hell bent on offering opinions that are so one sided?

What is your perogative?

In the past there was a discussion on XS regarding the alliances that certain forum members had with regards to companies that manufacture, market and sell certain products.

It seems that we have come round in a full circle and the same thing is happening again.

I cant accept the fact that someone as your self can be so biased towards a company without having a hidden agenda. I just wish there was a way that peeps posting with hidden agendas could be ousted and shamed for what they are doing to this community.

Only those responsible for XS can help put a stop to this. Otherwise more and more peeps who can discuss things on a logical level will stop posting here.......

Please note and READ that I have not directly said that YOU have a hidden agenda, I am sure though that there are peeps here who will know if this is the case or not.

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I agree. And I must say I'm glad youre posting on XS again. :up:

And XS news (with over 200 people viewing at any point of the day it seems) is the bottom of the sewer.

And do you know what's even worse? Every thread about K10 is killed on the first page. Every single one. And the mods look away. Take a look at the first posts in this thread. It's rediculous, three words and a rofl smilie at best.

They should teach these people that spitting on a company that sells microprocessors doenst make you cool in any way. If it has any effect, it's the opposite. You look like a total retard. And even if Barcelona and Phenom are total wastes of silicon, we're not waiting for anyone to state it over and over again. It's just boring.

I suspect young age, or worse a lack of mental development characterises the typical XS news poster. In that respect, we should be happy with Shintai as he has the technical knowledge.

I didnt quite catch your drift in your previous post though. You say that the bottleneck is the GPU. If Phenom scores lower against a bottlenecked Intel, doenst that make the Intel potential bigger? In any case, the benchmark seems wrong on a lot of points.

Add a X2-BE23XX in this chart and talk to me later :rolleyes:

6400+ draws 142W? they have just broken the physics rules then, unless they overvolt them.

Yorkfield review by our friends at lostcircuits
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/intel_yorkfield/

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Originally Posted by savantu

Because they are using family TDPs and not individual ones.

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A) So you are saying that anything above 65W goes 130W? :rolleyes:

B) I never said that Intels process is not superior(I couldn't possibly know that), even more so not superior to AMDs 65nm. What i said is that high-k and metal gates alone dont make it superior.

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Originally Posted by v0dka

And do you know what's even worse? Every thread about K10 is killed on the first page. Every single one. And the mods look away. Take a look at the first posts in this thread. It's rediculous, three words and a rofl smilie at best.

They should teach these people that spitting on a company that sells microprocessors doenst make you cool in any way. If it has any effect, it's the opposite. You look like a total retard. And even if Barcelona and Phenom are total wastes of silicon, we're not waiting for anyone to state it over and over again. It's just boring.

I suspect young age, or worse a lack of mental development characterises the typical XS news poster. In that respect, we should be happy with Shintai as he has the technical knowledge.

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I completely agree with you here. It's sad that people are so quick to bash a company just because their technology isn't the very best. People are too ignorant to realize that a company such as AMD needs to exists. If not AMD, then at least another company to challenge Intel. Without competition, technology won't advance as fast, prices will go up, and selection will decrease. Who wants any of that?

All that being said... these results are dissappointing. Let's hope that they can compete.

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Originally Posted by alayashu

6400+ draws 142W? they have just broken the physics rules then, unless they overvolt them.

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How come ?

AMD changed its definition of TDP some time ago , it's closer to Intel's.

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Yorkfield review by our friends at lostcircuits
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/intel_yorkfield/

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Which fully supports Matbe power measurements...LoL. :yepp:

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Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR

A) So you are saying that anything above 65W goes 130W? :rolleyes:

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45 , 65 , 80 , 95 and 130w.
This are the Intel family TDPs.

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B) I never said that Intels process is not superior(I couldn't possibly know that), even more so not superior to AMDs 65nm. What i said is that high-k and metal gates alone dont make it superior.

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I disagree completly.IMO , you really need to read a bit about Intel's 45nm process, high-k and metal gates.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01...m_metal_gates/

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..It said the new transistor construction will see source-drain leakage reduced fivefold and gate oxide leakage tenfold....Intel also claimed the metal gate and high-k combo would yield around a 30 per cent reduction in the power needed to switch the transistor.

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I know I only became a member of XS in 2006 but I must express myself. First off, I believe a forum dedicated to extreme computer enthusiasts is the perfect stage for an inevitable clash of heads between fanboys of any two dominant products ie. DAMMIT/Nvidia, Intel/Nvidia. It is both our nature as humans, and even more so, as extreme enthusiasts of the products we consume and have dedicated a lot of our time, money, and creative ideas to, to want to defend the building blocks which made our creations possible. A simple question: How fond are you of your PC? is a starting point for the conclusion of this argument. As with anything else, there are a number of people who are LUCKY enough to be appreciative of everything out there in the computer world and would utilize them without a second thought. There are people who switch back and forth depending on which manufacturer gives them the best performance, period; or the best performance for the buck, period.

In light of the above, I think it is quite wrong for anybody to insist that members should be any less passionate about the components they value the most above others, or chastise them for sharing their thoughts on what they thought of the competition. This fanboy phenomenon is true in the real world as well. Fanboyism is what drives professional sports. Owners of near-million-dollar Ferraris who are die-hard race fans may not thrash talk Porsche owners, until porschers start competing directly against ferraris in organized events.

If anything, I suggest that members are a little more tolerant of the views of other people. I don't understand why people take things so personal here; a little bit of thrash-talking can do good things for one's temperament :). I believe passionate loyalty and even geeky thrash-talking are very much a part of what extreme computing is. It is the nature of the sport, and mind you, for some people it is a professional sport.

Finally, usually, if you don't throw mud yourself, it is hardly likely that mud will be thrown your way. My 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by v0dka

I agree. And I must say I'm glad youre posting on XS again. :up:

And XS news (with over 200 people viewing at any point of the day it seems) is the bottom of the sewer.

And do you know what's even worse? Every thread about K10 is killed on the first page. Every single one. And the mods look away. Take a look at the first posts in this thread. It's rediculous, three words and a rofl smilie at best.

They should teach these people that spitting on a company that sells microprocessors doenst make you cool in any way. If it has any effect, it's the opposite. You look like a total retard. And even if Barcelona and Phenom are total wastes of silicon, we're not waiting for anyone to state it over and over again. It's just boring.

I suspect young age, or worse a lack of mental development characterises the typical XS news poster. In that respect, we should be happy with Shintai as he has the technical knowledge.

I didnt quite catch your drift in your previous post though. You say that the bottleneck is the GPU. If Phenom scores lower against a bottlenecked Intel, doenst that make the Intel potential bigger? In any case, the benchmark seems wrong on a lot of points.

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Hello friend :D

dont want to say too much more regarding the negativety thats going on around here, it is up to those who really value XS to put a stop to this. Frustration got the better of me as what some peeps are posting is so undermining that the fun is slowly ebbing away from this community :(, I want this to stop and stop soon

Now regarding your comment, 'I didnt quite catch your drift....', I didnt say that the bottleneck is in the GPU, but that it obviously wasnt in the CPU. The statement was very bold as to be honest with you I do not have the technical knowledge of the software or hardware to really come to a conclusion based on some facts! LOL

It was said in the hope that someone with superior knowledge and an unbiased view could maybe bring to the table why the Intel CPU's are showing almost identical behaivoir. It is too easy to say that the GPU is the bottleneck.

Hoping that someone can chime in with some credible information

:up:

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Originally Posted by savantu

How come ?

AMD changed its definition of TDP some time ago , it's closer to Intel's.

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Originally Posted by AMD

Thermal Design Power is measured under the conditions of Tcase Max, IDD Max, and VDD=VID_VDD and include all power dissipated on-die from VDD, VDDIO, VLDT, and VDDA.

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http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...docs/33954.pdf Page 32, Note 4

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Originally Posted by Zucker2k

I know I only became a member of XS in 2006 but I must express myself. First off, I believe a forum dedicated to extreme computer enthusiasts is the perfect stage for an inevitable clash of heads between fanboys of any two dominant products ie. DAMMIT/Nvidia, Intel/Nvidia. It is both our nature as humans, and even more so, as extreme enthusiasts of the products we consume and have dedicated a lot of our time, money, and creative ideas to, to want to defend the building blocks which made our creations possible. A simple question: How fond are you of your PC? is a starting point for the conclusion of this argument. As with anything else, there are a number of people who are LUCKY enough to be appreciative of everything out there in the computer world and would utilize them without a second thought. There are people who switch back and forth depending on which manufacturer gives them the best performance, period; or the best performance for the buck, period.

In light of the above, I think it is quite wrong for anybody to insist that members should be any less passionate about the components they value the most above others, or chastise them for sharing their thoughts on what they thought of the competition. This fanboy phenomenon is true in the real world as well. Fanboyism is what drives professional sports. Owners of near-million-dollar Ferraris who are die-hard race fans may not thrash talk Porsche owners, until porschers start competing directly against ferraris in organized events.

If anything, I suggest that members are a little more tolerant of the views of other people. I don't understand why people take things so personal here; a little bit of thrash-talking can do good things for one's temperament :). I believe passionate loyalty and even geeky thrash-talking are very much a part of what extreme computing. It is the nature of the sport, and mind you, for some people it is a professional sport as well.

Finally, usually, if you don't throw mud yourself, it is hardly likely that mud will be thrown your way. My 2 cents.

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Good solid comments, however I wish to believe that the sense of community should far outway that of pure fanboyism. You could say that the passion that 'man' shows in all things that are done leads to more competition and more evolution.

But should we not draw the line when things like this lead to discontent, disrespect and tactful bullying?

Now we must stop talking abt these things, the thread is going to pot as some of us have become over emotional ;)

Please save our XS, must start a petition......:p:

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Originally Posted by mongoled

Good solid comments, however I wish to believe that the sense of community should far outway that of pure fanboyism. You could say that the passion that 'man' shows in all things that are done leads to more competition and more evolution.

But should we not draw the line when things like this lead to discontent, disrespect and tactful bullying?

Now we must stop talking abt these things, the thread is going to pot as some of us have become over emotional ;)

Please save our XS, must start a petition......:p:

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I hear you. What else do you expect in a thread comparing an AMD cpu to Intel'? I'll refrain from further comments since this is looking like a thread hijack. :toast:

(to all complaining about negative attitudes towards AMD)

It does seem that you cant say anything negative about AMD without people biting your head off, Its as simple as this, K10 has been a disappointment so far and Intel is kicking ass so most threads will reflect this. Just the same as k8 vs p4 days.

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Originally Posted by gallag

(to all complaining about negative attitudes towards AMD)

It does seem that you cant say anything negative about AMD without people biting your head off, Its as simple as this, K10 has been a disappointment so far and Intel is kicking ass so most threads will reflect this. Just the same as k8 vs p4 days.

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Yeah but being disappointed about an unreleased product is unneeded :)
makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by DuceGT

Pre-release CPUs and pre-release chipsets and a bunch premature adults on an internet forum.

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Quoted for truth!