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Are there any pics of the bottom of the Al top? Maybe there are spots where the dimensions are too thin for delrin to be used. Machining brass sucks and is stronger and harder than Cu and Al. Don't think anyone would be quick to re-tool the fab plant just for a brass top.
This whole corrosion thing is blown way out of proportion. EDITED FOR CONTENT-PB
Ply
Wow, copper is in the same group as silver. You really think it would cause problems? All those brass instruments with silver bells would be completely destroyed already if it were that bad.
Anyways, I don't see how the aluminum top would effectively cool anything, but I guess it was more for the wow/bling factor. But I don't like the look.
You do realize that anodizing and plating are different right??? And the pictures shown in that thread, obvious they did not do proper measures when using mixed metals.
Why do you think cars can go for years on the same coolant even though having mixed metals in the loop. Lets see, iron, copper, brass, aluminum, plastics. All sorts of stuff. How many Koolance systems do you hear of being destroyed by corrosion? Ever heard the saying "an ounce of prevention?"
It's called doing research, real research. Not just hopping on a forum and asking a question or two. But people now a days want to be spoon fed. Why exercise that grapefruit on top your head when you can just hop on a forum...
Ply
From that thread. Even with regular water and coolant changing and the proper amount of additives, corrosion still occurred.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marci
I want to ask, who was that directed at?Quote:
Originally Posted by Plywood99
Well I've played 2 brass instruments, and I can tell you, the plating on the tapered insert of the mouthpiece will get way more rubbed off than that top's plating ever could, and the plating is still there... I've seen a gold plated mouthpiece that has no brass showing from underneath. I seriously do not think the nickel plating on the top can come off, and damage the loop.
Cars can run for years with iron, aluminum, brass, steel, etc. but the engine blocks do get corroded, just not to the point where there would be problems.
It was directed at mcoffey, not you serial. And the comment from Marcy makes perfect sense. When you have a inferior anodizing, and wrong mixtures, (no not saying Marci mixed wrong), problems can and will occur.
Ive' used some home-brew blocks that were nothing but a copper plate with aluminum channels soldered to it. No problems when used with the proper ratio, and the right kinds, of chemicals. But I did get sloppy once and not put proper ratio, one block corroded completely shut on me. Note this was my fault, not the blocks.
Things are simple now though. If running mixed metals use Koolance coolant.
And besides, as was mentioned the GTX is PLATED...
Ply
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
Never answered my questions about mixed metals in cars and Koolance systems. And I said nothing about pure coolant. I said proper ratios...
Ply
What? Don't make me take out my mouthpiece and show you what I mean!!! Even crappy nickel plating is very durable, from what I see.
Plating is very durable when properly done. And from what Gabe said, I believe the GTX will last a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by serialk11r
Ply
I don't see where there would be nearly enough friction to take the plating off the top, besides the threaded part. Even there, some PTFE tape will solve that problem.
JoeBar made a good point earlier in this thread. Plenty of foreign companies use aluminum in loops and you don't here a bunch of horror stories from them. Wonder why? Things being done properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
And the mixed metals not an issue so shut up thing is very valid. Here a product, the GTX, just out on the market. Big thread people pissing and moaning. Has the product failed yet? No. Are there lines of angry people whose equipment is destroyed? No.
EDITED FOR CONTENT - PB
Ply
Looks like I'll have to take a pic for you...Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
you'd be hard-pressed to find on a person on this forum who recommended anything made of aluminum, blocks in particular, Ply. just accept the fact that you don't know enough about water cooling; it's pretty obvious from your comments on Koolance and aluminum ;)
I'm using an ancient Koolance NB block and it's absolute :banana::banana::banana::banana:, no question about it. It will be replaced by a zalman passive radiator in a few days. there's a piece of Koolance for you.
Just in case you didn't know, Ply made his own block... out of copper :eek:.And it was a good one. And I'm sure he knows Koolance sucks. But I agree with him. Aluminum is yucky, but with nickel plating, the issue isn't corrosion. I do not understand why swiftech chose aluminum but well, that's their decision. I wouldn't get that block anyways, I don't think its worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooc
:( This thread was more fun when we were overclocking in spaaaaaaaaace.:(
Can someone think of a better alternative to the aluminum? Copper and brass are more expensive, and derlin and lucite are hardly thermally conductive. Since the top is a heatsink, it has to be thermally conductive.
All this whine and no real thought has gone into a better way to do things. :nono:
who cares if they top has tiny fins on it if they dont do squat. We need testing to show whether its even worth it first before we start looking at alternative metals. I honestly doubt it will make the slightest difference. If there is any performance to be gained i would put it on the inlet spacing, not the passive fins...
I have no clue why they used aluminum. I don't see any reason why aluminum should be used. That's one of the questions yet to be answered...
Zinc plating can help reduce significant corrosion of alu even when the plating is scratched or penetrated - the zinc and alu are still in electrical contact and the zinc will still oxidize preferentially. I'm reasonably convinced that Swiftech's top poses no real risk of a corrosion disaster in the working life of a real block. Nevertheless, a copper top seems a more obvious choice.
It's possible that the alu+cu risks are somewhat overstated: if your water is de-ionized, and your alu has some sort of protective coating, the corrosion problem should be ... tractable. The life of a block is rarely more than a year or two. You have to look very carefully at the horror stories, question all the details and see how the problem arose.
Maybe if somebody were heating up tap-water in their loop they'd quickly see serious problems. Maybe they bought deionized water that wasn't, maybe there was a residual substance (such as flux) that contaminated their water...
What we do know is that there is a very small number of verified cases of mixed metal disaster in water-cooling loops but those few cases are 'sensational' enough to make an impact on everyone - despite the fact that more people probably lost kit to cracked Tt perspex blocks, o-rings damaged in mis-assembly, dodgy quick-fit connectors, and dead Mag2 pumps.
I'm not saying don't worry about mixed metals, just that in the case of this block the reaction is a little extreme. Swiftech did the best thing they could to protect the Alu, it's just not obvious why they chose to use it in the first place.
Looks, pure and simple. They wanted to make it look like Edelbrock valve covers and I think it does look good. I love the bling what can I say.Quote:
Originally Posted by serialk11r
But that does not justify bringing Aluminum in contact with our loops. Now if they would have just put the aluminum on top and not have it contacting the water (like have a copper top and then just screw the aluminum on top of that as eye candy)... then I would be ok with it. I would even pay a little more for it. But as it stands I will never own this block because of the potential hazard it poses (which saddens me cause I really do like the looks of this block and would have purchased based on that over the D-Tek). Yes if the plating is good it should not corrode but guess what? Manufacturing processes are not perfect and defects can, no, will occur. To say they wont or to say none will make it past QC is a lie to the entire manufacturing community.
Re-read Marci's post and reconsider your stand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fossil