Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
at 100W the difference is less than 3.4C
and remember, it takes three apogees to equal the pressure drop of a single storm.
Printable View
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
at 100W the difference is less than 3.4C
and remember, it takes three apogees to equal the pressure drop of a single storm.
Not the way i read the graph. At 3w the apogee = .17c/w and the storm at 3w = .12c/w. At 100w that is exactly 5c.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
each shaded line is .002c. the storm is .13 plus 2 shaded, lines, actually a hair above that. so i rounded to .135
apogee is .17 subtract the storm of .135 equals .035c/w difference.
.035c/w x 100w equals 3.5c difference. so .1c higher than my estimate.
and this is with a small 14mm die. duals, quads and chips with a ihs are significantly larger.
EDIT: the more you work and do the math on these graphs, the more you see that ALL waterblocks perform extremely close to each other, and in real world conditions, perform almost identical with single block loops.
but then you factor in multiple block loops, and quickly see how the restriction of a storm becomes much more of an issue when you have 1 or 2 gpu blocks. then it makes you question if the storm is worth double the price, and more of the hassle of clogged jets, and its impact on gpu cooling.
I love how the 6002 still beats the apogee! huray for that:D
Not playing up the Apogee, but is it me, or is that Apogee on miserable 10mm tubing and the Storm on 1/2" or 7/16" ? The graph says so. Wouldn't that have some bearing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jochenp
in most real world loops, the 6002A would most likely very ever so slightly beat BOTH the storm and apogee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
wow, you are right!
why they would do that im not sure. they used the smaller fittings for the apogee, and used the bigger fittings for the storm.
that most likely skews the results in favour of the storm.
and according to this chart. the fitting size has a large impact on the flow rate and pressure drop.
now im quite certain that something fishy is going on here.
10mm = 3/8",
Clay, yes, I did mean a block where the water does have direct contact with the die/ihs...
This is still the only thing making sense to me.. as it is virtually 0 restriction (compared to Storm), and you are loosing a layer of tim... which could result in better performance...
So, what I am drawing up here... is a block where the water has direct contact with the IHS... as the guy says it is nothing new... perhaps a central inlet, with some large id holes (or any other type of accelerator) so that the restriction isn't that great... lastly, he could also devise somehow to improve the surface area of the IHS (although that would be difficult).
I really doubt it's direct die cooling....he's made it clear that this will be a very easy install and compatible with all CPUs....and as future-proof as any other block out there.....
Kinda stymied.....
Oh well, let the waiting continue.
oops you are correct, I was reading the graph as 12c instead of 13.5c lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa
First of all its not colder, in fact chances are its exactly the same temperature as ambient air.Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewxcv
Lets start with the fact that you can not feel temperature. Your skin can feel the flow of heat not the temperature, there is a big difference. The reason the metal feels cold is its pulling the heat away from your hand very fast and you feel the flow. The part where you "think" its cold is psychological and based of your past experiences and reasoning. This is why people often mistake cold and hot things.
For instance. My physics professors wife was making turkey for thanks giving. She was at a hot stove cooking with coils red hot. She put her hand on the frozen turkey and flipped out because she thought she put her hand on the stove. She was looking at the stove, and thinking heat when in fact she touched a very cold object. Likewise my friend grabbed a red hot pipe when brazing and thought it was cool until he realized it was red hot.
When you go to the bathroom at night the tile feels cold. When you step on the rug it feels much warmer. In reality they have been lying there all night and are pretty much at thermal equilibrium. The difference is the tile pulls the heat away from your feet a lot faster. Rest is in your head.
A lot of people notice that in the summer they feel hot at 70F in their house while in the winter at same 70F they feel cold. That is because int he winter your skin can sense the flow of heat from your house outwards in to the atmosphere. When in the summer the case is opposite.
Now I am no bio-physic but this is straight from my physics lecture, and while I may not understand fully how your senses are connected to your physiology or your psychology, for now I'll take the word of a guy who has two phd's on me.
Lucky me. I just picked up one for my chiller needs :)Quote:
Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa
epion...whoa....
I think you missed this part:at the end of his post....(highlight to see it)Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewxcv
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
ROFL!
i know i deffiently missed that part of his post! good thing you pointed it out too. i was thinking maybe he rode the short bus.:p:
LOL, ok I admit it, he got me good.
Didn't see the grey. Enlarged for us blind folk.
------------------------------------
mnewxcv:
"think of it this way, when u touch a piece of metal its always colder than the air it seems. so its definitely easy to get a block that will cool to below ambient.
just a joke fellas
------------------------------------
:clap:
Lol, I got it from the start
But yeah, after all, I am the uber leet smartass :devil:
Yeah I've got a 6002A too, and I'm very glad with it.
It's build like a tank, I don't think I'll ever manage to break it (too bad, another excuse for buying extra watercooling equipment gone to smithereens)
Jochenp
Direct/IHS would save him some headaches in manfacturing too. He'd only have to make a few sizes of seal plates. Athlon XP's would probably be out. I'm thinkin' that too. Some large multi-jets squritin' on the IHS. Doesn't look like "Spode" ever got that far. He sure did alot of work though. Top of a Sunny-Delight bottle beatin' a DangerDen block. Hehee the idea certainly has merit. Still a better pump would have some better effect though maybe not as much. Better rad would still would mean better temps too.Quote:
Originally Posted by D_o_S
For something like that beatin' a storm shouldn't be any problem. Especially if the processor on the storm still has the IHS. Ambient load temps is a really big claim though. I'm sure he'll optimise his platform for that.(No 50% overclocks LOL)
Edit: Humm Increasing the area of the IHS could be done with some gunsmith's metal checkering files.(lotta' werk but maybe worth it)
He said large enough heat exchanger it will cool close to ambient. Well a bong is a big enough heat exchanger and mine did result in a 10°c temperature drop over a Bip3 with 3 fans on it.
I think its definetly possible to build a block thats atleast 2-3°c better than the storm but is he doing it? Maybe maybe not he posts alot but hey I would like to see him poop or get off the pot.
Seems direct-die cooling is what he's about, but how practical is that?
It sounds like a recipe for disaster to me
MILLED 6002A here.. I need another :D
edit - pics of milled 6002a ;)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ghlight=milled
Direct/IHS is more practical. It might even werk better as the surface area is larger. Easier to seal too. There will be disasters. But there is allways that chance. Also most new processors have soldered IHS's. So I doubt it direct/die. But direct IHS easier to make,mount,seal. Yer' no longer worried about IHS being as flat and as smooth as possible anymore. (Rougher is better)
I registered and posted over there..........MW cleared up some things but we'll just have to wait for the evidence. I personally doubt very much that there will be a block which will be able to beat the Storm by a whopping 10C but i've got an open mind.....
Seems to me the only way to 'think outside the box' and to best all current blocks is to really remove the block altogether. Like what others have mentioned, direct die/IHS. In theory this might seem like a good idea but it may be a different animal in practice. How do you unmount the block (assuming direct die) without getting water everywhere? How do you guarantee a good IHS/oring/block seal? I suppose once the damn thing is on the cpu, you don't really need to take it off unless you are changing CPU's. And it would eliminate bad mounts and TIMs.
performs up to 10c better than the storm when ice cubes are used in the water ;)
I'm glad to see that everyone is getting a good laugh out of this and not thinking that there is a bit of truth to this.
a quote from the designer
"The amazing thing about this block is that the pump will have very very little impact on it's performance... so pump choice will be more dependant on whatever else you have in your loop, not the CPU block."
combine that statement with some thermodynamic laws and the "10c better than the storm" comment and you can safely say this guy is out of his mind.
hey hey no funny business :p: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
where have you been dude......you job is taking up too much of your time man....you'll just have to quit :D :D :D :D
He won't get 10c.(Unless he has a board sensor like mine.LOL) Mines allready 5f better than a storm and it is a storm.(Lyin' board sensor LOL)
Sealing direct/die seem about the only way to do that is about the same way Spode did it with his T-birds and Durons. He had some troubles too.
Direct/IHS about the only way that makes any sense is a precision seal plate. Mounted-sealed first to board-processor. Then the rest of the block mounted to that. I kinda' doubt an O-ring seal would be good enough. So some kinda' non-hardening sealant of some kind might also be in order. That would make it easy enough to remove. But sealing might be dicey. I'm pretty sure that's what he's up to. I'm also pretty sure that's where his trouble is..
One of the neat things is the whole thing could be made outta' plastic. Like a "Petra" pump top.