AMD 4x4-platform based on Socket 1207 / AMD roadmap ?

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Originally Posted by Poodle

I'm quite sure I read it in the press release for the board.

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That would be a typo. Wouldn't be the first time this happens to Abit, I remember vividly how one of their 939 boards web pages stated max RAM 8 GB. Right.

While it is theoretically possible (but utterly pointless) to run unregistered RAM from a registered memory controller by moving the register chips from the RAM modules to the board, there is nothing you can do to access registered RAM from an unregistered memory controller. And running both registered and unregistered from the same slots is out of question, too, and they certainly wouldn't lok themself into registered RAM.

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Those who want 4x4 with unregistered memory have only one hope: that the original report of the socket 1207 rebasing turns out wrong, or that the decision gets reverted when they magically find a mainboard vendor for AM2 4x4.

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Originally Posted by uOpt

That would be a typo. Wouldn't be the first time this happens to Abit, I remember vividly how one of their 939 boards web pages stated max RAM 8 GB. Right.

While it is theoretically possible (but utterly pointless) to run unregistered RAM from a registered memory controller by moving the register chips from the RAM modules to the board, there is nothing you can do to access registered RAM from an unregistered memory controller. And running both registered and unregistered from the same slots is out of question, too, and they certainly wouldn't lok themself into registered RAM.

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Those who want 4x4 with unregistered memory have only one hope: that the original report of the socket 1207 rebasing turns out wrong, or that the decision gets reverted when they magically find a mainboard vendor for AM2 4x4.

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Well it's sad: I'd like to have one but now I think I'll probably stick to my E6600 for a long time and save the money for once. :)

Maybe new hopes around Am3 and K8L. We'll see.

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Originally Posted by uOpt

While it is theoretically possible (but utterly pointless) to run unregistered RAM from a registered memory controller by moving the register chips from the RAM modules to the board, there is nothing you can do to access registered RAM from an unregistered memory controller.

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What if the memory controller supports both registered and unregistered RAM? Could there then be two different types of socket F motherboards, one that uses registered RAM and another that uses unregistered RAM?

mmm i guess im the only one here that will say this the mem controller is in the cpu so depends on the cpu if accepts ecc and registered ram

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Originally Posted by oldblue

What if the memory controller supports both registered and unregistered RAM?

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There's an extra pin for registered memory, it's not just "software".

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Could there then be two different types of socket F motherboards, one that uses registered RAM and another that uses unregistered RAM?

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That would make no sense. That would be a like a new incompaible socket, just happens to have 1207 pin. Nobody would make a board for that given that only rich enthusiasts would buy it (most enthusiasts are poor).

if AMD could force a new platform then would force an AM2 4x4 but apparently they tried and failed on that one.

If the new 4x4 does turns out to be just a rebadged 2 socket server board with OC'ing options, it actually doesn't seem so bad. Cuz that means we can use the 22xx series server cpu on it right? So we could possibly builld a 4 core system for less than $1k.

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Originally Posted by uOpt

There's an extra pin for registered memory, it's not just "software".

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I understand. I was wondering whether it would be possible that the registered memory pin could be active in the "registered memory" motherboard but not the "unregistered memory" board.

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Originally Posted by uOpt

That would make no sense. That would be a like a new incompatible socket, just happens to have 1207 pin.

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Not entirely. You would still be able to use the same processors in either motherboard, as long as the memory controller on the processor is capable of supporting either registered or unregistered memory.

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Originally Posted by uOpt

Nobody would make a board for that given that only rich enthusiasts would buy it (most enthusiasts are poor).

if AMD could force a new platform then would force an AM2 4x4 but apparently they tried and failed on that one.

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I understand this argument, and I tend to agree with it. But I'm trying to better understand the technical problems of offering socket F motherboards with unregistered RAM.

I see no reason AMD can't make this work on only a few mobos. They can't have the new FX line work on all Socket F mobos or they will loose Opteron sales--or have to half the price of the top of the line Opterons. Not happening. It will be a new memory controller that works on only a few mobos. After all this is just a ploy to lessen attention from the real quad cores, just like the photos at the INQ.

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Originally Posted by lapdog

I see no reason AMD can't make this work on only a few mobos.

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No way they are going to find a mainboard maker for this plan. Nobody's going to design new boards that only work for 4x4 and only with special 4x4 CPUs (the original plan would have normal AM2 FXes).

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Originally Posted by uOpt

No way they are going to find a mainboard maker for this plan..

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With only one or two supporting mobos the volume may be high enough for a high price enthusiast product. The extreme high end is always fairly low volume anyway.

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Originally Posted by lapdog

With only one or two supporting mobos the volume may be high enough for a high price enthusiast product. The extreme high end is always fairly low volume anyway.

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At the same time DFI made their Venus board and not very of them were sold, SOO maybe some could do something similiar for 4x4 and sell even more for similiar profit

If anyone will do it then Asus will, just look at their 7800GT x2 vga card.

Considering that this solution is seemingly more and more bespoke why is the enthusiast who needs 4 cores not going to be swayed by popping a Kentsfield into a 975 motherboard ?

Regards

Andy

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Originally Posted by zakelwe

Considering that this solution is seemingly more and more bespoke why is the enthusiast who needs 4 cores not going to be swayed by popping a Kentsfield into a 975 motherboard ?

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cause he can make it 8 cores couple months later...

["Technically, it might be possible. ECC is never required and you can move the buffer chips from the RAM modules to the board. Of course, that would be pointless since although you can now use unregistered RAM you still have the register chip limiting overclocks, not to mention it is now more expensive (since you pay for 4 register chips even if you only use 2 modules)."

ok, I dont really know that much about pin layout of registered memory (or ECC), but here is my take:

buffered/registered: have extra logic to buffer the command/address signals, introducing extra latency, but lower capacitative load on memory controller. I think a memory controller that supports registered, would also be able to use non registered, although not simulatenously... the timings would need to be adjusted.

ECC: If I recall correctly, that's one extra memory chip (per 8) to check if data is correct. So, output is 72 bits not 64 bits, per DIMM. I think the DIMMs are notched differently and wouldn't fit, so I guess you wouldn't be able to mix with regular un-buffered.

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Originally Posted by nn_step

At the same time DFI made their Venus board and not very of them were sold, SOO maybe some could do something similiar for 4x4 and sell even more for similiar profit

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There were only 1,000 DFI Venus boards made, and they were all sold.

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Originally Posted by shimq1

There were only 1,000 DFI Venus boards made, and they were all sold.

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And I highly doubt no less than 1,000 4x4 boards would be sold.
Hell for Budget servers, it would sell like wild fire

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Originally Posted by nn_step

And I highly doubt no less than 1,000 4x4 boards would be sold.
Hell for Budget servers, it would sell like wild fire

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budget server is almost an oxymoron.

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Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

budget server is almost an oxymoron.

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I disagree, both my servers (my old one and my new one have been rather cheap, also delivering a good whack of power too.

(first was my p4 3.2c main rig with a few changes to make it a sever, second is a pentium 930d at 4ghz)

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Originally Posted by nn_step

And I highly doubt no less than 1,000 4x4 boards would be sold.
Hell for Budget servers, it would sell like wild fire

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You're wording is kinda confusing, do you mean you doubt less than 1,000 4x4 boards will be sold.

or

You doubt more than 1,000 4x4 boards will be sold.

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Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

ECC: If I recall correctly, that's one extra memory chip (per 8) to check if data is correct. So, output is 72 bits not 64 bits, per DIMM. I think the DIMMs are notched differently and wouldn't fit, so I guess you wouldn't be able to mix with regular un-buffered.

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ecc is interchangable with non-ecc from what i understand ;)

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Originally Posted by shimq1

You're wording is kinda confusing, do you mean you doubt less than 1,000 4x4 boards will be sold.

or

You doubt more than 1,000 4x4 boards will be sold.

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I doubt that less than 1,000 4x4 boards would be sold (should someone make them) But in all probability if AM2 supports quadcore AM3 Processors. I AM very sure LOTs and LOTs of these boards will sell

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Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

ECC: If I recall correctly, that's one extra memory chip (per 8) to check if data is correct. So, output is 72 bits not 64 bits, per DIMM. I think the DIMMs are notched differently and wouldn't fit, so I guess you wouldn't be able to mix with regular un-buffered.

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I mix them all the time. Of course the extra ECC chip is then ignored even on the modules that have it.

ECC is really not the problem here, it is fully ignoreable.

There were 1000 Venus boards sold, but it was a $300 board taking any 939 CPU and taking any unregistered DDR RAM.

Let's assume it is technically possible and 4x4 is socket 1207 with the CPU using unregistered RAM, then you can exchange those CPUs neither with the 1207 server platform, nor with AM2.

And to sell these 4x4 board they need to overclock high, have high-quality capacitors etc etc. And it needs to be dual, so it almost certainly needs to be 6-layer.

There is no way way that such a board could cost below $500, and then you add two CPUs that don't run anywhere else. You really cannot compare that to the Venus board situation.

I don't think 1000 board of "1207 special unbuffered" can be sold.

Think back about the original plan: they didn't find anybody to make that board even when it would use normal AM2 CPUs.

woah.. at least $500?
a motherboard hardly costs that much.. maybe more like $50 (and thats including all the in-box accessories). With more expensive chipset and other chips on the motherboard up to $100.. maybe even $120.

If they tried to sell for $500, nobody would buy it. Even $300 is really pushing it/

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Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

woah.. at least $500?
a motherboard hardly costs that much.. maybe more like $50 (and thats including all the in-box accessories). With more expensive chipset and other chips on the motherboard up to $100.. maybe even $120.

If they tried to sell for $500, nobody would buy it. Even $300 is really pushing it/

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I don't think you looked at high-quality dual boards lately, or any 6-layer board for that matter. Or any socket F board. Then add some overclocking potential which at least means more engineering and stronger power distribution.