I need Kobe Tai to come over and bite my tongue.

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06-09-2005, 07:53 PM
Zebo

I gave you the easy answer.:)
06-09-2005, 08:00 PM
Hans.Gruber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebo

I gave you the easy answer.:)

Ok, now you answer to this.

Why Intel stats are increasing without it having a network but AMD's don't ??

http://www.tomshardware.com/stresstest/intel.html
06-09-2005, 08:09 PM
Zebo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans.Gruber

Ok, now you answer to this.

Why Intel stats are increasing without it having a network but AMD's don't ??

http://www.tomshardware.com/stresstest/intel.html

That's easy too. Toms HW a liar making this whole test up after initial failures.

Intel used to have a network.
I got all this archived...(need IE)
http://www.csc.calpoly.edu/~smanning/44.mht
06-09-2005, 08:12 PM
Lithan

Lol, he's right. I just verified it and Intel says no net, but it's stats continue going up. If I was Intel I'd be pissed off that my puppets were making it look like I needed them more than I actually did.

Edit: I honestly think this has got to be a joke. There is no way someone could &(*^ up a test so badly, try to cheat in it so badly, and then cover it up so poorly. And if it turns out this is a joke, I'm sure it'll infuriate Intel that a site that gets as much traffic as Tom's makes them look so bad.
06-09-2005, 08:56 PM
pha|anx

I wonder what Mr. Pabst thinks if he's reading this, gurus and legends and such cutting him up good lol

:wierd: :bounces:
06-09-2005, 09:10 PM
Lithan

Probably too busy trying to scrub the stink of whoredom off himself to be reading this.
06-09-2005, 09:55 PM
XtremepH

nvm
06-09-2005, 09:59 PM
Lithan

Yeah was posted on page 5 I think. Sorry.
06-09-2005, 11:09 PM
MaxxxRacer

Guys lets stay calm and not have this turn into the flamewar that it is moving towards.
06-09-2005, 11:39 PM
OC Detective

Yeah lets get back on track to the burning issue - namely THG's shenanigans.
He claims not to be touching priority selection in Windows for AMD but how can he explain the following:
Approx 3:20pm my time (+8 GMT) the readings were as follows:
Lame Encoder Intel = 301 AMD = 256
Winrar Intel = 1634 AMD = 2072
Farcry Intel = 27FPS AMD = 35FPS
Divx Intel = 1380 minutes AMD = 80 minutes

About 10 minutes later the following:

Lame Encoder Intel = 303 AMD jumps up to 311!!!
Winrar Intel = 1643 AMD jumps to 2321!!!
FarCry Intel = 27FPS AMD drops to 15FPS!!! (edit: latest now is Intel at 37 and AMD at 35!)
Divx Intel = 1390 AMD jumps to 130

No explanation for the Farcry drop other than priority adjustment is there?
06-09-2005, 11:43 PM
MaxxxRacer

i think their benchmark numbers are TOTALY fubared. there is no ryhme or reason to them. at some points it shows intel doing better in one area and then a few hours later it shows amd doing better.. they are totaly useless sets of data imo..
06-10-2005, 12:13 AM
OC Detective

I am looking forward to seeing what kind of rational conclusions they are going to come up at the end of this!
If it were me, I would be saying "well basically we f###ed this test up big time - sorry!"
06-10-2005, 12:23 AM
trance565

lol, i think they shoulda used a dbl bar graph for the far cry section, one bar showing the amount of runs, one bar showing the fps, cuz the fps is kina misleading, like when the bar shows intel winning, ppl are like ooh yay, but they forget to read amd has been faster for more time, making it finish 300 more runs than intel

oh ya, lithan, u get my pm :)
06-10-2005, 07:54 AM
saaya

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUGGER

Yes Hans, that is true

The side panel I picuted is from a reference BTX machine I own and it was provided by Intel. The Heatsink fan I pictured is the original BTX design that was delivered the above said BTX case.

Yes Intel shipped a lot of these and yes Intel has changed the spec on BTX.

You guys can argue with an Intel developer that has the reference designs on hand? Try and open your eyes and look at the picture, it is obvious that the fan has no shroud. The shroud I pointed out (granted it is hard to find on the shelf) is the correct hardware for that setup.

FYI 955 is a BTX board, last ATX board was the 875 chipset. BTX boards are exact to ATX boards less the percise placement of CPU in relation to the shroud I posted a pic of.

My Intel reference machine (BTX standard) will fit any 915, 925, 945 and 955 mobo perfectly.

charles, i think you might have received a very early idea of btx, probably just an atx heatsink with a shroud to suck cool air from outside of the case. it must have been very very early because they changed the btx idea and went fopr a different mainboard design and a tunnel copu heatsink that pushes the air through it from one side to another:
http://pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?a...id=1712&page=2

this is from january 2005 and shows and early btx heatsink sample, wich looks identical to the final version of the btx heatsink that is now available in retail. somebody posted a pic of it earlier in this thread:
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/akiba...btxp4560j.html

and btx mainboards have a totally different layout than atx mainboards, a real btx heatsink will just not fit in an atx mainboard.

left is atx right is a btx mainboard

http://img226.echo.cx/img226/7051/btx12mz.jpg

here you see what the idea of btx is. on the left is an atx case, theres acase fan in front of the hdds that blows in fresh air on the bottom, and a psu fan on the top that sucks tha air out. then you have a fan on the videocard and cpu and most of the times also on the northbridge. but each of those fans is not moving the air from the intake to the outtake of the case but only moving it around creating turbulences and heatink up the case air.
on the right you see a btx case, there are only 2 fans, one that takes the air in at the front and one that takes it out on the back. maybe an extra fan for the videocard, but thats it, there is only one direction the air is moving, from the front to the back.

http://img226.echo.cx/img226/6513/btx29fa.jpg

thats why i dont think the heatsink is a btx heatsink, btx heatsinks dont have a fan on top of them, the idea of btx is to move the air from right to left, a fan on top would only create turbulences and reduce the cooling effect. and the heatsink isnt shaped like a btx heatsink either taking advanctage of the airflow from right to left.
i think your heatsink and shround are intels first steps towards btx but dont have anything to do with the current btx standard.
they probably sent you an atx heatsink with a shroud, wich is how the idea to btx started. thats probably why it is a btx heatsink, but then again its not. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUGGER

Hans, I am a Intel developer and that is from my BTX refence system. The spec has changed since then but many of those heat sinks hit the retail market and were shipped with the processors to the reviewers.

I have expressed the problem to Intel about giving reviewers the incorrect supporting hardware a few times now.

My case was designed for that sink and that is obvious.

Trust me, I have seen every revision and know that heat sink well. open your eyes and you will see it has no shroud, use common sense and figure out that without the shroud the air movement down is reduced greatly.

If you had the case like mine (sold at Frys and Compusa) you would know it make a huge difference in the operation of that heatsink. Night and day difference.

Intel website has been update to show current BTX. I was on BTX so long ago and I tested the sinks you are seeing now on all those review sites. I expressed my concerns about this problem and un educated people running the open fans (exp this stress test crap) Without it, it is going to fail over and over again under load. Why do you think so many people complained of Prescott temps?

All motherboards 875 and newer support BTX standard as well as ATX. AMD guys are clueless and I am speaking jibberish.

so your saying the idea of having one airflow to cool the cpu nb sb memory and videocard are now changed? the idea of btw WAS to have one wind tunnel to cool all hot parts of the pc. and intels btx site still says so:
http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/rese.../eng/95347.htm

Quote:

Superior Thermal Environment
*High power components use the same in-line, high velocity, low temperature airflow
*Above and below motherboard airflow helps improve voltage regulation and socket capability

Superior Acoustic Performance
*Only two fans required - even in high performance configurations
-Thermal module fan and PSU fan create and manage simplified system airflow
*Lower impedance and high velocity, low temperature air allows lower fan speeds

and

http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/rese...hermal_Modules

Quote:

BTX-based Motherboards

The BTX-based motherboard layout differs significantly from ATX/microATX, and requires designs built specifically for BTX. BTX also allows for multiple board sizes utilizing a common core:

picoBTX: maximum width 203.20 mm, up to 1 add-in card slot.
microBTX: maximum width 264.16 mm, up to 4 add-in card slots
BTX: maximum width 325.12 mm, up to 7 add-in card slots

BTX-based Chassis

Because of the changes in motherboard layout, the new form factor will require unique chassis designed specifically for BTX. It will be critical to select a chassis that supports the chosen board size. A BTX-compatible chassis will require built-in features to attach the Support and Retention Module (defined below). Additionally, a Thermal Module Interface may be required. This is a ducting feature connecting the front of the Thermal Module to a front vent. It is needed to ensure that airflow exiting the Thermal Module cannot re-circulate and re-enter the Thermal Module Interface opening.

Support and Retention Module (SRM)

The SRM is a metal plate that is assembled to the chassis beneath the motherboard to provide structural support for the motherboard and retention for the thermal module. The SRM is expected to be shipped with BTX-compatible chassis.

so that explains the btx design as having a duct on the FRONT of the case sucking in air ,blowing it over the cpu and then exhausting it in the rear.
the case also needs to support this.
your case and duct are on the SIDE of the case, not in the front.

so either you got an early btx design before the standard was set or intel changed the btx standard and hasnt updates their site yet?
and i cant believe that intel went from the btx with a windtunnel to a simpler btx with just a duct from the side of the case. this simple duct from the side of the case doesnt have all the benefits intel advertised btx with, bigger and heavvier heatsinks possible and cooling all system components. the duct you use only cools the cpu.

and your mainboard is not btx, so did intel scrap the whole idea of btx mainboard layouts? :confused:

this doesnt make any sence, i think you have a very early btx prototype.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noldor

I think we all can, and should, agree that the heatsink used in the test is NOT the heatsink Intel meant users to combine with their dualcore processors. This chip apparantly requires BTX to run properly, and I guess Intel should advertise that more and demand that their resellers inform about this on the spec-sheet at the retailers webpages. 99% uf all users buying this chip will not own BTX cases and will run into some serious problems. Too bad. Yonah seems extremly promising though and I can't wait to buy one. But even those who prefer Intel have to agree that if you ARE going to spend 1000$ on a processor, the Athlon X2 IS a better choise. Which processor is best for budget systems will of course depend on money and where and how its gonna be used. But if you MUST spend 1000$ on a CPU, I can't see ONE reason why the Intel one should be recommended.

if it requires a btx case to work then why doesnt intel say anything about it?
while this might be an error of communication, the following certainly isnt:
all dual core reviews were done on mainboards intel sent the hardware sites. they sent not just dual core cpus but testing systems, some sites even received an entire case already assembled to test the dual cores and it also had the same heatsink on it!
dual core cpus dont need a btx mainboard to run, what they need is a better heatsink! theres no need for a new case with shroud and whatnot, all you need is a better heatsink!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUGGER

The Intel is superior when more than two threads are used. It is superior at encoding and multimedia streaming.

It is a superior product when selling to big business and is accepted into military, government and educational sales. This is where AMD is rejected the most.

People who demand higher quality machines buy Intel

Professionals who need un comprimised stability buy Intel.

AMD is fine for the gamer and casaul home user who can overlook minor stability issues and willing to beat head against the wall over NF3/NF4 reboot issue for hours to eventually give up to only see the Windows splash screen.

The members of this site has killed hundreds of FX processors over the past few months. Some members killing upwards of a dozen. Weather it was too much vcore or too much vdimm they are still deaded.

You would be digging deep to find one dead P4 and near impossible to find two dead ones by the same person. Give it a rest about AMD being superior. Its all in you feeling you have ownage with your AMD cpu. :party3:

no amd vs intel discussion please :D :toast:

i dont understand why intel wants to save 5$ on each cpu wich a better heatsink would cost them at most... i hope they finally start equipping their boxed cpus with better heatsinks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noldor

Well, this debate could go on for years and years. Toms test hold no real relevance to this and I'm sure Intel's processor is just as stable as the AMD one when used like it's intended to be used, with the BTX case/fan.

there are intended to be used on atx mainboards and atx cases, and they dont need a btx mainboard and case tow rok, they only need a good heatsink.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noldor

Many of us have been running AMD for years without problem. FUGGER has ran Intel without problems. So which is best? I game mostly and do some "internetting", the choise is obvious. However, should I go into some serious encoding i'd look into an Intel rig. And to be honest, 100 or 110 FPS in a game, or 5 CD's in an hour instead of 6 CD's. LOL wth are we arguing about anyway? As long as the processor is fun to overclock we should all be happy. We can use intel for PI and AMD for 3D. YAY!, fun for everyone.

exactly! :toast:

please stop the intel vs amd discussion, this thread is about thgs incapability of getting a cpu stable, what brand that cpu is doesnt really matter, id laugh my 4ss of as well if it was an amd cpu they wouldnt manage to get stable and kills 5 mainboards trying to get the system working :lol:

Lithan and everybody else, please stop the amd vs intel discussion!
im going to remove all intel vs amd comments and posts to keep this thread clean. if you want to start an intel vs amd thread please do so in the chat section.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebo

Some drunk in toms "lab" prolly fell over the network cable and disconneted it.

tom got frustrated and got drunk and then fell on the server :lol:
06-10-2005, 08:14 AM
Gorgeous

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

Lithan and everybody else, please stop the amd vs intel discussion!
im going to remove all intel vs amd comments and posts to keep this thread clean. if you want to start an intel vs amd thread please do so in the chat section.

tom got frustrated and got drunk and then fell on the server :lol:

Super Saaya to the rescue! :p: Glad you cleared up that mess.
06-10-2005, 08:21 AM
saaya

LOL super saaya yin :lol:

*looks in mirror* meh, still no blond hair
gotta try harder.... hrrrnnngggmmmm
bah i give up...

btw, i compared the performence stats at 4pm and 6pm central european time:

340 cds
342 cds

1844 archives
2576 archives

37fps 1152runs
35fps 1450runs

1550 mins
130 mins

2 hours later:

351 cds
351 cds

1906 archives
2655 archives

37fps 1198 runs
35fps 1495 runs

1600 mins
140 mins

this means the intel system performs as following:
it encodes ~5.5cds/hour
zips 31 archives/hour
does 23 runs of far cry/hour
encodes 25mins of a dvd/hour

and the amd system performs as following:
it encodes ~4.5cds/hour
zips 39.5 archives/hour
does 22.5 runs of far cry/hour
encodes 5mins of a dvd/hour

lets see if this will change in future.
does anybody have several screesnshots of the same day at different times to compare how the systems performed before?
06-10-2005, 08:35 AM
Lithan

Nah, a decent copper heatsink would cost $10-15 more to make I figure. A better aluminum heatsink would mean more noise (since cpu manufacturers are hardly free to create high performance sinks, limited by the need for 100% compatibility and little R&D).

Trance, I got it. The only thing I can figure is now that memory controller is onboard, games might stress it more than most cpu loaders do and it might be the reason your games heat up the cpu more than cpu loaders. I'm not exactly sure how much heat output A64 mem controllers have.
06-10-2005, 08:40 AM
Charles Wirth

This thread was flying yesterday :D

I dont make any $ from Intel directly LOE. I stand by the product that serves me well. Others stand behind AMD

Anyway, it will interesting to see where the stress test goes on THG. :lol:
06-10-2005, 08:44 AM
saaya

yeah! i hope they blow up some more mainboards, a psu and maybe some other stuff :lol:
this is really fun to watch :rofl:

i hope epox gigabyte and intel will send them their special "thanks" and support thg with the hardware they "deserve" in future :D
if i was in charge at intel id send them network cards to test to see if they are capable of doing a good review of that before i send them anything complex again. i bet they would kill 2 boards with that network card as well though :rotf:
man i was close to laughing tears when i first read the thg article updates about all the boards they killed :D
06-10-2005, 08:51 AM
trance565

saaya, the link
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/akiba...btxp4560j.html

of the six pics on the right, u can see the middle left one shows an actual btx design, the fan is on the side, so it is btx, reviewers just must not have been informed that they need to keep the fan on the side

i guess most the review sites pulled a tom, and took the shroud off, and mounted a fan on top, like they are used to doing, and didnt do what intel wanted them to
06-10-2005, 08:53 AM
MaxxxRacer

THG with a network card:
It seems the heatsink on the NIC was not large enough and it overheated frying the memory power regulators on the mainboard. We tried a second motherboard and found the southbridge to be faulty which caused more fialures. We finally resolved the problem by installing a XP-120 with a 220CFM delta fan on the NIC. Currently this setup is working nicely with the fan being powered off of the mainboard.

:rolleyes:
06-10-2005, 09:02 AM
Zebo

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

THG with a network card:
It seems the heatsink on the NIC was not large enough and it overheated frying the memory power regulators on the mainboard. We tried a second motherboard and found the southbridge to be faulty which caused more fialures. We finally resolved the problem by installing a XP-120 with a 220CFM delta fan on the NIC. Currently this setup is working nicely with the fan being powered off of the mainboard.

:rolleyes:

GAWD what a bunch of liars... How the heck you install an XP120 *AND* a 220CFM fan on a nic !??!?! I gotta see this before believing.

220 CFM means a huge denki or panaflo 120x38mm. XP120 masses about 1 Kg or two pounds. Nic's have no holes in them to "attach" anything. You drill holes and PCB is fried.
06-10-2005, 09:07 AM
Ref

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebo

GAWD what a bunch of liars... How the heck you install an XP120 *AND* a 220CFM fan on a nic card!??!?! I gotta see this before believing.

220 CFM means a huge denki or panaflo 120x38mm. XP120 masses about 1 Kg or two pounds. Nic cards have no holes in them to "attach" anything. You drill holes and PCB is fried.

lol it was a joke :ROTF:
06-10-2005, 09:08 AM
Zebo

hehe:)

I assumed what Maxxxxxxxx said was true with the BS i've read so far over there. :p:

When I get back to work I'm blocking THG's IP for whole building
06-10-2005, 09:08 AM
Charles Wirth

:rofl:
06-10-2005, 09:21 AM
Zebo

Quote:

At long last, both platforms are running in a stable manner, so the crew can concentrate on the data records and working out the current rankings.

What do they mean "working out" the rankings??? Should be automatic.

Quote:

However, the reason for the system crashes in the last few days are now very clear. The boxed cooler we used briefly was only designed for the Pentium 820

Wrong! they had a high RPM cooler eariler when the crashes happened.
http://www.csc.calpoly.edu/~smanning/9.mht

Look, 3500RPM and a cool 65C.

They must mean later when they put the wrong HSF on. i.e. the last three crashes.
06-10-2005, 09:23 AM
Zebo

Saaya can you intern at TOMS please? Their bablefish german to english translations sux too.
06-10-2005, 10:06 AM
trance565

nvm
06-10-2005, 10:11 AM
LilGator

*sigh* what a thread ...
06-10-2005, 10:35 AM
saaya

Quote:

Originally Posted by trance565

saaya, the link
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/akiba...btxp4560j.html

of the six pics on the right, u can see the middle left one shows an actual btx design, the fan is on the side, so it is btx, reviewers just must not have been informed that they need to keep the fan on the side

i guess most the review sites pulled a tom, and took the shroud off, and mounted a fan on top, like they are used to doing, and didnt do what intel wanted them to

LOL! no man, check out the pics! its a totally different heatsink!
the heatsink and the fan dont come seperated, the fan is already mounted on the heatsink when it arrives :)

look, a btx heatsink is made out of round alu platters on a copper stick pretty much, and that copper stick then sits on the cpu. then you mount a tunnel on top of it and the air gets ducted through the alu platters from left to right.

an atx heatsink is a copper stick with an alu stick around it and many alu fins, and a fan on top blowing air from the top to the bottom of the heatsink. totally different thing.

and a btx heatsink is impossible to mount onto an atx mainboard!

here, this is another pic of the btx heatsink where you can clearly see that its 100% not the same thing thg used, and that its impossible to mount on an atx mainboard:

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/image...View_small.jpg

the heatsink they used is in no way a btx heatsink. btx heatsinks dont have any fans directly attacked to them

Quote:

However, the reason for the system crashes in the last few days are now very clear. The boxed cooler we used briefly was only designed for the Pentium 820

but its the same heatsink all sites used for their 840 reviews :eh:

so whats the 840 boxed heatsink then? :confused:

what do you need translated? just post it here and i will translate it :)
06-10-2005, 10:44 AM
saaya

OMG! you guys! check out the latest update! :eek:

OMG!!!!!!!!!!1

Quote:

Friday, June 10, 2005: Both systems have been running without any problems so far, AMD since June 7, 8 pm, Intel since June 8, 3 pm.

HHhaHAhhaHAhahahHahahAhAhAh :rofl:
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050603/index.html

Quote:

We also like to thank those readers who discovered a questionable error message in our Intel statistics showing "network not connected" whereas it did not show up on the AMD platform. Unfortunately, our stat tool was still connected to a logfile of the previous motherboard. The new one was sending network data to a file with a different name - sorry for that. So don't worry, we didn't loose any data and everything is alright now. By short inspection we didn't find any irregularities in this file by the way. All important data logs such as temperature, fan speed and memory usage have been displayed correctly.

wait wait wait... let me get this straight. they changed the intel mainboards, right? since its a new mainboard the tool that records the temps and stuff made a new file where it saved those infos? and the online stats didnt get updated because the sever was reading from the old file? but then why did the intel stats increase and get updated if the results were actually written to a different file?

i dont get it, can somebody please explain this to me?
and didnt the stats show the amd system as offline as well? :confused:
06-10-2005, 10:48 AM
Lithan

Well to be fair it's honest. Amd's ran since june 7th without them touching it, therefore without any problems. :P
06-10-2005, 10:49 AM
Lithan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebo

GAWD what a bunch of liars... How the heck you install an XP120 *AND* a 220CFM fan on a nic !??!?! I gotta see this before believing.

220 CFM means a huge denki or panaflo 120x38mm. XP120 masses about 1 Kg or two pounds. Nic's have no holes in them to "attach" anything. You drill holes and PCB is fried.

That sounds like a challenge to me. Now if only I had a spare xp120
06-10-2005, 10:56 AM
saaya

well the intel system crashed 3 times, how can they say everything was running fine? its not normal that systems crash... lol :D

and it turns out the cards they used are gt and not ultras? :stick: geez this is getting worse and worse... horrable journalism at its best there...

and the ocz ddr2 memory was actually cl5.0? but didnt they say they were running 4-4-4 timings? so they tweaked the intel system but didnt tweak the amd system? :stick:

and now they say they also changed the memory because it didnt work on one of the mobos! LOL

Quote:

However, the reason for the system crashes in the last few days are now very clear. The boxed cooler we used briefly was only designed for the Pentium 820 - also dual core but clocked at 2.8 GHz - not for the top-of-the-line Pentium 840 EE (3.2 GHz) model. The two boxed coolers, which are nearly identical in appearance, differ in that a large copper core is used in the model for the 830/840/840EE processors. Added to that is the much higher fan speed: 3500 RPM instead of the 2000 RPM on the "smaller" model.

uhmmm in case you didnt notice guys, you were running the fan at 4300rpm for the last days :stick:

Quote:

Dual core is not always dual core: other specs apply at higher clock speeds.

wow, you guys figured that out all by yourselves? :slap:

they are seriously trying to get away with it it seems! :eek:
06-10-2005, 11:00 AM
Hans.Gruber

Quote:

Friday, June 10, 2005: Both systems have been running without any problems so far,AMD since June 7,

LIARS !! What a bunch of *¤*%**&** !!

AMD has been running from day 1 without any problems !!

I never tought that Intel would need help from THG idiots.. Well, live and learn.. ;)

edit: added "would need help from"
06-10-2005, 11:09 AM
saaya

well they must be so incapable of building a working system that 3 reboots in 2 days is normal for them, probably even more stable than their average systems! :lol:
[THG reviewer] what? there are systems that dont crash for months? like never? woaaa :eek: [/THG reviewer]

btw, are they running their new bigger faster better 840 boxed heatsink now or are they still running the 820 boxed heatsink?
06-10-2005, 11:17 AM
Zebo

Quote:

well the intel system crashed 3 times

I documented 12 eariler in this thread. Not that that means anything, toms HW is totally incompetant to be running any sort of review site. Maybe they just dropped off a box of HW in some third world country to people who have never seen hardware before and said "get to it"... Outsourceing is the big thing nowadays.
06-10-2005, 11:17 AM
Ref

So they will be deactivating hyperthreading on the Intel system :up:

Not saying if it is fair, but curios at what the results will be ... :rolleyes:
06-10-2005, 11:22 AM
Hans.Gruber

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

are they still running the 820 boxed heatsink?

I quess they learned their lesson, they are hardware experts now.. :bsod:

I wonder that are they going to replace parts for Intel until AMD crashes for some reason, and then make a story that AMD has failed ?
They probably do that, even if AMD crashes becouse of Windows error or something similar..
06-10-2005, 11:27 AM
Zebo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref

So we will be deactivating hyperthreading on the Intel system :up:

Not saying if it is fair, but curios at what the results will be ... :rolleyes:

No it's not fair, wtf is that all about. :confused:

I can show the results here: Look at the 840 when more than two tasks applied. Dismal. 4800 destorys it.. Like I said eariler the *only* p4d worth anything at all is the EE due to Hyperthreading.
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...4-x2-4800.html
06-10-2005, 11:33 AM
Hans.Gruber

If they disable Intel XE hyperthreading, then according to this, Intel is going to be in trouble....

http://koti.welho.com/pnystro2/somep...ltitasking.PNG
06-10-2005, 11:37 AM
Zebo

Oh ya I forgot it's the XE now not EE.:)

Everyone is spelling extreme: xtreme now. :roll eyes:

This is how I feel about that
[url]http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=xtreme_bull:banana::banana::banana::banana :[url]
06-10-2005, 12:44 PM
Ref

Yeah it is not fair, but we will see how AMD handles more processes in comparison to PEE.

PEE840 w/o GT = PD840
06-10-2005, 01:51 PM
trance565

so instead of having 2 theoretical cores running with a 400mhz fsb like the single cores, they gonna have 2 actual cores running 800 fsb?
06-10-2005, 05:26 PM
OC Detective

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

LOL super saaya yin :lol:

*looks in mirror* meh, still no blond hair
gotta try harder.... hrrrnnngggmmmm
bah i give up...

btw, i compared the performence stats at 4pm and 6pm central european time:

340 cds
342 cds

1844 archives
2576 archives

37fps 1152runs
35fps 1450runs

1550 mins
130 mins

2 hours later:

351 cds
351 cds

1906 archives
2655 archives

37fps 1198 runs
35fps 1495 runs

1600 mins
140 mins

this means the intel system performs as following:
it encodes ~5.5cds/hour
zips 31 archives/hour
does 23 runs of far cry/hour
encodes 25mins of a dvd/hour

and the amd system performs as following:
it encodes ~4.5cds/hour
zips 39.5 archives/hour
does 22.5 runs of far cry/hour
encodes 5mins of a dvd/hour

lets see if this will change in future.
does anybody have several screesnshots of the same day at different times to compare how the systems performed before?

Saaya I have kept some screenshots (on work computer ) of when I posted about the big jump in AMD figures except for the drop in AMD FPS on farcry (around 10am CET I think).
06-10-2005, 05:35 PM
pha|anx

could anoyne sum up for anyone who sees this thread, what exactly has happened? since the lying Tom Pabst has attempted to cover up the truth, only this thread and others like it on other forums serve as accurate records of the history behind the 'stress test'. could someone please sum up the problems that each system ran into? what we know so far:

the Intel setup chewed 5 Asus P5ND2-SLI Deluxe's...
06-10-2005, 05:44 PM
Zebo

Read the thread:)
06-10-2005, 05:52 PM
bypolar

Notice the AMD is on a Gigabyte board. What they needed to do is use boards from the same manufactor that retail in the same price catagory.

it is Pretty much useless to compare with such a variance in Platform hardware.

same board, same memory, same power supply same heatsink same Video one AMD proc one Intel.
06-10-2005, 06:44 PM
trance565

Quote:

Originally Posted by bypolar

Notice the AMD is on a Gigabyte board. What they needed to do is use boards from the same manufactor that retail in the same price catagory.

it is Pretty much useless to compare with such a variance in Platform hardware.

same board, same memory, same power supply same heatsink same Video one AMD proc one Intel.

well, u cant use the same memory due to teh fact amd uses ddr and intel uses ddr2, so rule that out, intel apparently cant use nforce, tho now i think they figured out it wasnt the chipset that was the prolem, im sure that if they used the "correct" heatsink, it would work on the nforce board, with sli, heatsink, well they used the one provided, to provide "stock" performance charts, so really, the only thing u could use the same would be, psu, mobo, and video, unless u wanted to use xp 120 hs&fans insted, but stock heatsink should suffice for the tests since no overclocking is involved
06-10-2005, 06:46 PM
trance565

Quote:

Originally Posted by pha|anx

could anoyne sum up for anyone who sees this thread, what exactly has happened? since the lying Tom Pabst has attempted to cover up the truth, only this thread and others like it on other forums serve as accurate records of the history behind the 'stress test'. could someone please sum up the problems that each system ran into? what we know so far:

the Intel setup chewed 5 Asus P5ND2-SLI Deluxe's...

amd: no problems whatsoever, cept for some kina kink with windows making dvd encoding last on the list, utterly last, oh ya, and change of gfx cards due to intel

intel: wrong hsf... apparently, 5+ mobos gone, 1 or 2 psu's, change in hs&f, change in graphics cards

mmmmmm thats all i can think of,
06-10-2005, 07:32 PM
ahmad

For this to be a fair comparison, they need to run both systems outdoors in Antartica. Maybe then we can see how the intel performs :)

Or we could all just point at Intels 120W processors and laugh :rotf:
06-10-2005, 08:06 PM
pha|anx

Quote:

Originally Posted by trance565

amd: no problems whatsoever, cept for some kina kink with windows making dvd encoding last on the list, utterly last, oh ya, and change of gfx cards due to intel

intel: wrong hsf... apparently, 5+ mobos gone, 1 or 2 psu's, change in hs&f, change in graphics cards

mmmmmm thats all i can think of,

thanks!

Quote:

For this to be a fair comparison, they need to run both systems outdoors in Antartica. Maybe then we can see how the intel performs

Or we could all just point at Intels 120W processors and laugh

lol hey Ahmad :bounces:
06-10-2005, 08:11 PM
perkam

Hmmm..phalanx nice sig.

Though the actual thermal guideline is 130W, a tad higher, and thus more ridiculous. I dont know why they dont compare it against an overclocked P4...considering based on PCMARK04 score ratios...a 2.4ghz AMD Dual Core is about the same cpu power as a 3.6ghz Intel dual core cpu....Makes sense too.

When they're prices normalize down the road, a 2.4ghz processor (such as the 3800+/3700+ today) is compared with a 560 or a 570 Intel processor.

Perkam
06-11-2005, 04:35 AM
Gorgeous

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahmad

For this to be a fair comparison, they need to run both systems outdoors in Antartica. Maybe then we can see how the intel performs :)

Or we could all just point at Intels 120W processors and laugh :rotf:

I prefer not to drown when the intels melt all the ice....so why dont we just leave the test in germany
06-11-2005, 05:41 AM
setyotomo

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans.Gruber

LIARS !! What a bunch of *¤*%**&** !!

AMD has been running from day 1 without any problems !!

I never tought that Intel would help from THG idiots.. Well, live and learn.. ;)

i got this screen a while ago, maybe useful for archive... ( taken 6/9/2005 )

:fact:
06-11-2005, 06:24 AM
Hans.Gruber

Quote:

Originally Posted by setyotomo

i got this screen a while ago, maybe useful for archive... ( taken 6/9/2005 )

:fact:

I don't understand ?

(i also edited that post which you quoted, i added "would need help from")
06-11-2005, 08:19 AM
ahmad

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgeous

I prefer not to drown when the intels melt all the ice....so why dont we just leave the test in germany

haha good point.

:flame:
06-11-2005, 08:38 AM
saaya

Quote:

Originally Posted by OC Detective

Saaya I have kept some screenshots (on work computer ) of when I posted about the big jump in AMD figures except for the drop in AMD FPS on farcry (around 10am CET I think).

i have captured screenshots every hour for 6 hours in a row yesterday night and a few hours in a row this mid day :D imma post the results later, its hilarious! the fps of the intel system is jumping up and down, they seem to change the priorities every few hours or so...

Quote:

Originally Posted by pha|anx

could anoyne sum up for anyone who sees this thread, what exactly has happened? since the lying Tom Pabst has attempted to cover up the truth, only this thread and others like it on other forums serve as accurate records of the history behind the 'stress test'. could someone please sum up the problems that each system ran into? what we know so far:

the Intel setup chewed 5 Asus P5ND2-SLI Deluxe's...

here you go :)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=65291

and welcome to XtremeSystems btw :toast:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bypolar

Notice the AMD is on a Gigabyte board. What they needed to do is use boards from the same manufactor that retail in the same price catagory.

it is Pretty much useless to compare with such a variance in Platform hardware.

same board, same memory, same power supply same heatsink same Video one AMD proc one Intel.

did you read this thread or the thread i made summing up the details or the thg article? they DID use idencital pats, as identical as possible, but the intel parts kept dieing... well i think thg killed it beeing the experts they are famous for beeing :D
welcome to XtremeSystems ahmad :toast:
06-11-2005, 01:15 PM
trance565

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans.Gruber

I don't understand ?

(i also edited that post which you quoted, i added "would need help from")

basically, its showing, amd system up for 90+ hours like it originaly was, and intel crashes, was high, and then thg says, both systems have been running flawlessly, cept, it hasnt, and thats proof
06-11-2005, 01:22 PM
Hans.Gruber

Quote:

Originally Posted by trance565

basically, its showing, amd system up for 90+ hours like it originaly was, and intel crashes, was high, and then thg says, both systems have been running flawlessly, cept, it hasnt, and thats proof

How there is only 1 boot in the counter if it's 9th day ? :confused:

Also AMD uptime doesn't match, it's too much for 9th day..

Another thing, there is no date visible in that picture. :(
06-12-2005, 07:38 AM
saaya

they dont give any details at all on how the meassure everything, that way they can change their measurement methods to adjust the outcome of the test to be what they want it to be... just lame :rolleyes:
06-12-2005, 10:18 AM
CNCL

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

they dont give any details at all on how the meassure everything, that way they can change their measurement methods to adjust the outcome of the test to be what they want it to be... just lame :rolleyes:

Yeah, exactly
06-12-2005, 11:08 AM
trance565

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans.Gruber

How there is only 1 boot in the counter if it's 9th day ? :confused:

Also AMD uptime doesn't match, it's too much for 9th day..

Another thing, there is no date visible in that picture. :(

90 hours, ... taht would be the fourth day ...

and the one boot for intel, tahts thg changing tyheir numbers, it was at 4, then it crashed, and they changed sumthing, and restet the counter, it's really retarded, but none the less that wasthe 4th day
06-12-2005, 11:58 AM
Hans.Gruber

Quote:

Originally Posted by trance565

90 hours, ... taht would be the fourth day ...

I mean 9th of June 2005, NOT 9th day of the test.. :)
06-12-2005, 01:41 PM
ahmad

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

welcome to XtremeSystems ahmad :toast:

Thank you saaya :)
06-12-2005, 02:24 PM
kiwi

heh, nice test.

Maybe Intel should replace its boxed cooler with a vapo? :D
06-12-2005, 02:32 PM
CNCL

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi

heh, nice test.

Maybe Intel should replace its boxed cooler with a vapo? :D

Good idea though that probably still won't change AMD as the process of choice :p:
06-12-2005, 02:40 PM
swami

:fact: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23883 :fact:
06-12-2005, 03:13 PM
pha|anx

Quote:

Originally Posted by swami

:fact: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23883 :fact:

someone should email them and link them to this thread, and saaya's summary thread of this thread... lol

:yepp:
06-12-2005, 08:26 PM
Hans.Gruber

Wrong cooler for X2.

I wonder are THG dummies trying to fry X2 with a wrong cooler ?

I had a pic of X2 boxed cooler here, but i was wrong pic, so Here is X2 4800 boxed cooler

X2 cooler at tomshardware..
http://koti.welho.com/pnystro2/somepics/cooling3.jpg

I wonder what they are thinking cos they fried several Intel MB's, but AMD keeps on running with a sempron cooler.. :rofl:

ps. this wasn't my find, but i don't remember who it was..
(probably mentioned in this thread).
06-12-2005, 08:49 PM
trance565

for sum reason, i wouldnt be surprised, but ... how did they get that camera angle? isnt the camera stationary?
06-12-2005, 08:50 PM
dippyskoodlez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans.Gruber

I wonder are THG dummies trying to fry X2 with a wrong cooler ?

XE840 and X2 4800 coolers.
[im]http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32388&stc=1[/img]

X2 cooler at tomshardware..
[im]http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32389&stc=1[/img]

I wonder what they are thinking cos they fried several Intel MB's, but AMD keeps on running with a sempron cooler.. :rofl:

ps. this wasn't my find, but i don't remember who it was..
(probably mentioned in this thread).

edit: Im not sure if that first pic actually is X2 cooler, but boxed is identical to that and also has those heatpipes.

haha. wow.
:toast:

makes it look even better.
06-12-2005, 08:59 PM
Lithan

Thg has been Pwn'ed.
06-12-2005, 09:08 PM
Hans.Gruber

Quote:

Originally Posted by trance565

for sum reason, i wouldnt be surprised, but ... how did they get that camera angle? isnt the camera stationary?

That picture was taken using other camera, not the live cam.

This image is from the live cam, it's the same cooler.
http://koti.welho.com/pnystro2/somepics/cam5.jpg
06-12-2005, 11:08 PM
OC Detective

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans.Gruber

I wonder are THG dummies trying to fry X2 with a wrong cooler ?

XE840 and X2 4800 coolers.
http://koti.welho.com/pnystro2/somep...00_coolers.jpg

X2 cooler at tomshardware..
http://koti.welho.com/pnystro2/somepics/cooling3.jpg

I wonder what they are thinking cos they fried several Intel MB's, but AMD keeps on running with a sempron cooler.. :rofl:

ps. this wasn't my find, but i don't remember who it was..
(probably mentioned in this thread).

Its an Ajigo MF043-044A cooler they are using (intended for Opterons).
http://www.ajigo.com/product/MF043-044.htm
06-13-2005, 12:01 AM
Gorgeous

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUGGER

I am not wrong, the heatsink that THG is using is one of the first designs and was shipped with a lot of retail CPU's

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/2005...tium_d-06.html

It clearly has no shroud. I have seen every sink design from Intel made since the 486.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...chmentid=32192

This BTX case side is off a Intel reference machine.

http://www.peteredge.orcon.net.nz/casepics.htm

Is this the real Intel reference machine for the btx standard? ;)
06-13-2005, 12:33 AM
Hans.Gruber

I had wrong pic so
Here is X2 4800 boxed cooler
As we can see it is quite different from that THG's cooler.

edit: im getting confused with all these.. :(
06-13-2005, 08:46 AM
LilGator

2 Attachment(s)

So what happened between 4 and 6 ?

AMD:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=32407&stc=1
iNTEL:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=32408&stc=1
06-13-2005, 09:12 AM
Lithan

Haha, I actually considered doing that a couple times. Once when we found 92mm fans for like 30cent each, again when we found those 10 for 10 80mm at newegg. But that guy's a moron. You don't need case cooling unless you are overclocking. :rolleyes:
06-13-2005, 11:04 AM
Hans.Gruber

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilGator

So what happened between 4 and 6 ?

AMD:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=32407&stc=1
iNTEL:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=32408&stc=1

Maybe their streaming server crashed after it fried it's motherboard ? :rofl:

Sixth update.
.
They have added load balance stats, looks like they fooked again..

How the hell they count 35+40% to be 100% for the AMD system :confused:

edit:
Looks like cpu usage keeps on jumping for both, but AMD seems to have some issues with THG. :)
Maybe they don't know that scheduling apps manually don't have desired results ?
Well, what ever, it keeps on jumping up and down randomly..
06-14-2005, 02:19 AM
Ref

Quote:

AMD product is a production system and the Intel systems were still early samples

:rofl:
Intel released dual-core earlier than AMD and Intel's dual core is NOW in saled (AFAIK)...

BTW it is not AMD's fault on how are priorities managed, but Microsoft's, because windows is :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: ...
06-14-2005, 02:33 AM
Hans.Gruber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref

Intel released dual-core earlier than AMD and Intel's dual core is NOW in saled

I read from few sites and magazines that AMD is behind Intel in dual core technology.. :wth:

Their must have some brown bits between their teeths. :eek:
06-14-2005, 02:55 AM
Ref

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans.Gruber

I read from few sites and magazines that AMD is behind Intel in dual core technology.. :wth:

Their must have some brown bits between their teeths. :eek:

The technology AMD uses is WAY better than what Intel has with Smithfield. :fact:
06-14-2005, 03:34 PM
[G.N.U.]Fragman

amdX2 will have the throne until Yonah (dualcore dothan) appears at least...too bad the prices aint down to intel ground...
06-15-2005, 01:29 PM
Borgschulze

This is pathetic, there has been like 50 new motherboards in that Intel machine.
06-15-2005, 01:34 PM
Hans.Gruber

7th update. http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050603/index.html

They have disabled HT on Intel and it looks like it was helping Intel a lot previously.

This time Intel is behind at 3/4 tests including divx.
http://www.tomshardware.com/stresstest/charts.html
06-15-2005, 01:35 PM
Lithan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borgschulze

This is pathetic, there has been like 50 new motherboards in that Intel machine.

We passed pathetic right around page two. Now it's kind of like watching an impotent hunchback trying to rape a chicken.
06-15-2005, 02:08 PM
STEvil

thats just wrong
06-15-2005, 03:02 PM
Absolute_0

lol this is hilarious
the sad thing is i still see people who question me when i recommend an AMD system
"Don't AMDs run too hot??"
I have to explain "no, no you've got it all wrong..."
06-15-2005, 03:26 PM
[XC] leviathan18

now the hilarious thing is that they disabled the HT on the intel system now check all the scores
06-15-2005, 03:30 PM
shadowing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute_0

lol this is hilarious
the sad thing is i still see people who question me when i recommend an AMD system
"Don't AMDs run too hot??"
I have to explain "no, no you've got it all wrong..."

Exactly my dad's first response when I got my A64 rig. :D Proved him wrong with these temps. :)

Btw, this really does downgrade THG's reputation. Not to mention the fact, they don't get to seem logic very well...
06-15-2005, 06:48 PM
Zebo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute_0

lol this is hilarious
the sad thing is i still see people who question me when i recommend an AMD system
"Don't AMDs run too hot??"
I have to explain "no, no you've got it all wrong..."

LMAO then show them this: 59 watts for 3800 Venice vs. 162 watts for P4 670 under load !!!!

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/p...4-670/cons.png

Intel understates thier TDP, AMD over states it.

Another: Amd X2 4800 = 96W and Intel 840XE = 179W loaded.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/p...-840/power.png

Forgetabout it if you start clocking P4D's.. Say you clock that 840 to 3.8 Ghz.. well that's 2 x 670's above = 2 x 162W = 324W on just processor!!!
06-15-2005, 07:25 PM
MaxxxRacer

zebo thats some crazy stuff. who woulda though the load was so high on those pentum D's
06-15-2005, 07:36 PM
Zebo

WTFBBQHOTK!! There's a reason toms failed 12 boards other than stupidity which was 50%.. Fugger mentioned his board could not handle watts or he'd gone higher on his P4D. This forums is soon to be filled with people thinking they got a "bargian" getting a 820 and clocking it skyhigh, which they won't.. Most PSU's, most if not all mobos, and cooling other than phase won't handle it.
06-15-2005, 07:40 PM
Zebo

I'm interested in seeing FX-57 (SD) thermals and TDP's so we can gauge how much power a 4400@2800Mhz will use.. My guess is about 140W loaded when OC'ed like that since I think the FX-57 stock will use 70...

Anyway that's what I'm shooting for 2800Mhz X2 without the lights dimming or having to swap breakers in my BOX:D
06-15-2005, 07:51 PM
Absolute_0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebo

LMAO then show them this: 59 watts for 3800 Venice vs. 162 watts for P4 670 under load !!!!

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/p...4-670/cons.png

Intel understates thier TDP, AMD over states it.

Another: Amd X2 4800 = 96W and Intel 840XE = 179W loaded.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/p...-840/power.png

Forgetabout it if you start clocking P4D's.. Say you clock that 840 to 3.8 Ghz.. well that's 2 x 670's above = 2 x 162W = 324W on just processor!!!

Yeah, Intel is a real joke these days. But you'd be surprised how many people still think that Intel is much better. Many people who haven't been following processors lately are under the impression that AMDs are hot and unstable whereas Intels are state of the art. They think that if Dell uses only Intel, it must be good right? Hehe :p:
06-15-2005, 09:26 PM
Lithan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebo

LMAO then show them this: 59 watts for 3800 Venice vs. 162 watts for P4 670 under load !!!!

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/p...4-670/cons.png

Intel understates thier TDP, AMD over states it.

Another: Amd X2 4800 = 96W and Intel 840XE = 179W loaded.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/p...-840/power.png

Forgetabout it if you start clocking P4D's.. Say you clock that 840 to 3.8 Ghz.. well that's 2 x 670's above = 2 x 162W = 324W on just processor!!!

I have to say I agree with this. First AMD lists MAXIMUM, Intel lists TYPICAL. (To my understanding this is equivelent to a PSU's max sustained (typical) and peak (maximum) outputs). Second, my experience with Dothan (I refuse to even touch Prescott) shows this. @ 1.4v 2500mhz my dothan is heating up the Xp120 I have cooling it more than my Venice does @ 1.55v 2700mhz (both running small ftt's). Of course both run extremely cool. And when I go above 1.6v my venice see's an appreciable temp increase. (1.55 2700- 1.65 2800 =~ 8*C difference. I'm hoping/expecting that the dothan's temp wont change much as I increase voltage.

edit: Of course at Idle the dothan runs several degrees cooler. Intel's one thermal advantage.
06-15-2005, 09:48 PM
dippyskoodlez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithan

edit: Of course at Idle the dothan runs several degrees cooler. Intel's one thermal advantage.

which has little to no use if it is idle, 'less its a laptop. :p:

but are you comparing idle vs idle with cool'n'quiet and while the dothan is clocking down? because im sure both will be extremely close to ambient when used.

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