2 stage cascade

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08-02-2005, 04:34 AM
hatemi

All you need to do is connect it somewher in the suctionside of the loop. Dosnt matter if it is right next to teh suction port of compressor or further down towards the evap.

Actually I'm planing on using very long captube to connect the expansion tank to the suctionside of my coming autocascade(I'll start working on it in a minute ;) )to make the refrigerant bleeding as slow as possible. It would be nice to get almost all of the ethylene to the tank at startup where it would slowly be sucked to the loop. This would ease up the startup enourmously since it will always take some time to get the HX cold enough to condense the second stage refrigerant.
08-02-2005, 07:00 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

5 Attachment(s)

UPDATE!!

Well here it is my expansion tank thats 3/4 tubing and lots of it. I brazed the cap tube to the lowest spot on the expansion tank so if oil gets sucked into it when the system is turned off it will be the first thing sucked back out when the compressor is turned on. Got a nice spot for the tank too out of the way up there and easy to repair if theres any leaks which i don't think there are because i loaded each joint with silfoss and checked them all after it cooled off.

Brazing the cap tube to the suction line (pic3) when theres loads of insulation all around it proved to be a pain in the ass(pic4):mad: You can see again in pic3 the insulation i had to cut away because of heat damage.

To repair the leaking evap i just took out the leaking part of the evap and simply ran some more tubing it won't be quite as effective as the other evap that was there but it will have to do.

Right now 2nd stage is under a vacuum so tomorrow if all goes well and if i got enough co2 left to recharge 2nd stage im gonna try for the -100c mark.
08-03-2005, 12:50 AM
esdee

you could use old mapp gas bottles for expansion tanks, they are ideal! :D
08-03-2005, 08:58 AM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Quote:

Originally Posted by esdee

you could use old mapp gas bottles for expansion tanks, they are ideal! :D

Didn't have any. :slap:
08-03-2005, 04:27 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

1 Attachment(s)

Well test #3 is now complete with good news and bad news :(.

The good news is i managed to gain a few more degrees getting ever so closer the the -100c club :p:. And adding the expansion tank has knocked off about 150psi static pressure is now 405 instead of 520+psi. When i replace the cap tube on 2nd stage i might add some more pipe to the expansion tank see if i can keep static pressure to 350psi or lower.

The bad news is im gonna have to replace the 2nd stage cap tube for a longer one im having to take out too much gas to get the low side in a deep enough vacuum im taking soo much out that the sight glass is bubbling so im gonna add about another 2feet (24inches) which should take me to about 120-135 inches or should i go even longer than that?

Other than that stage1 is doing well (small thermometer in pic) it has a hard time keeping temps below -30c during a first few min of 2nd stage startup to solve this problem i simply switch to the shortest cap tube in the cap tube selector thing i made and once 2nd stage is down in temp i switch to a longer cap tube as nessessary.

Ps. had to get co2 tank refilled today as well total cost for that was $6.90 cad.
08-03-2005, 04:37 PM
gkiing

Quote:

Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_

Well test #3 is now complete with good news and bad news :(.

The good news is i managed to gain a few more degrees getting ever so closer the the -100c club :p:. And adding the expansion tank has knocked off about 150psi static pressure is now 405 instead of 520+psi. When i replace the cap tube on 2nd stage i might add some more pipe to the expansion tank see if i can keep static pressure to 350psi or lower.

The bad news is im gonna have to replace the 2nd stage cap tube for a longer one im having to take out too much gas to get the low side in a deep enough vacuum im taking soo much out that the sight glass is bubbling so im gonna add about another 2feet (24inches) which should take me to about 120-135 inches or should i go even longer than that?

Other than that stage1 is doing well (small thermometer in pic) it has a hard time keeping temps below -30c during a first few min of 2nd stage startup to solve this problem i simply switch to the shortest cap tube in the cap tube selector thing i made and once 2nd stage is down in temp i switch to a longer cap tube as nessessary.

Ps. had to get co2 tank refilled today as well total cost for that was $6.90 cad.

Your static pressure is far too high, it should be more like 150-200PSIG, unless the system is very very small.
08-03-2005, 04:47 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkiing

Your static pressure is far too high, it should be more like 150-200PSIG, unless the system is very very small.

UR forgetting gkiing that im not using a tiny evap like the rest of you are i got 3 or 4 times more liquid co2 running in my system than you guys are so theres alot more liquid to expand back into a gas thus the higher static pressure. I hope u understand a bit better now :).
08-03-2005, 05:27 PM
f00t

that really is a high static pressure. is your second stage compressor having any trouble starting with that much gas in the system? and what kinda charge are you running to get those temperatures (co2 to r290 ratio)

...also, can you post some temps in C. it takes me too long to convert it from farenheit
08-03-2005, 05:43 PM
Cr@sh_D1n3r

How can you run the system with such high pressure? are you crazy? Your compressors weren,t designed to handle such HIGH pressures! Stop this now or you'll blow yourself up. Do yourself a favor and stop running such vacuum in both 1 st and 2nd stage, especially 1st stage. Vacuum = less heat removal power. Try to run the 1st stage at 0 psi and not 25" hg...

Yeah and as f00t said, why don't you use celcius like everyone else here?
08-03-2005, 05:56 PM
n00b 0f l337

I like celcius but i always look at it in farenheit.... Nothing wrong with not using celcius.
08-03-2005, 06:49 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by f00t

that really is a high static pressure. is your second stage compressor having any trouble starting with that much gas in the system? and what kinda charge are you running to get those temperatures (co2 to r290 ratio)

...also, can you post some temps in C. it takes me too long to convert it from farenheit

Nop it starts no problem everytime why would it have trouble starting? if the pressures are equalized it shouldn't matter how high the pressure is when it starts.I guess u didn't read my last "test" post :nono: because i had said i got soo little gas in it that the sight glass is bubbling.

As for the ratio im not using any pre-determined amount what i been doing is i slowly add some liquid untill the low side stops clogging, in this case its 402A im using not 290.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cr@sh_D1n3r

How can you run the system with such high pressure? are you crazy? Your compressors weren,t designed to handle such HIGH pressures! Stop this now or you'll blow yourself up. Do yourself a favor and stop running such vacuum in both 1 st and 2nd stage, especially 1st stage. Vacuum = less heat removal power. Try to run the 1st stage at 0 psi and not 25" hg...

Yeah and as f00t said, why don't you use celcius like everyone else here?

These arn't running pressures! u would know this if u read every thread Cr@sh before making a reply. :nono:

As for running in a vacuum the these 1hp rotarys love to run in a vacuum theres nothing i can do about that other than overcharge them besides this pic speaks for itself! The small thermometer is on 1st stage suction just before compressor its LOW limit is -50c and i have tested its accuracy to -50c and is right on the mark. In this pic the lowside gauge wasn't connected up to anything (quick test this time didn't bother) but the high side gauge is on the 2nd stage high side. I wasn't quick enough with the camera this time but i hit -140f (ill try the record function next time) thats -95c in case ur wondering foot. :D only 5c to go :woot:.

Ps. I'll start posting in C from now on.
08-03-2005, 07:44 PM
Cr@sh_D1n3r

Quote:

Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_

These arn't running pressures! u would know this if u read every thread Cr@sh before making a reply. :nono:

Who said it was?? Sorry but 400 psi is just dangerous man. I bet your compressor shell wasen't even tested at 250 psi. :slap: I'm not the only one here telling your that your pressures are too high...Also what is your pressure cut-off switch rated at? Cuz how can the compressor start if it's rated at 350 psi like it's suposed to be ? What are the loaded running pressures?
08-03-2005, 08:20 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cr@sh_D1n3r

Who said it was?? Sorry but 400 psi is just dangerous man. I bet your compressor shell wasen't even tested at 250 psi. :slap: I'm not the only one here telling your that your pressures are too high...Also what is your pressure cut-off switch rated at? Cuz how can the compressor start if it's rated at 350 psi like it's suposed to be ?

Thats just it 2nd stage won't start untill the pressure comes down to 300psi kinda a safety switch if u think of it like that 1st stage cools the gas which lowers the 2nd stage pressure after about 5min its at 150psi.

FYI, the info on the A/C these compressors were taken out of has a design pressure of 400psi high side and a compressor shell is steel which is alot stronger than copper and is twise as thick as copper tubing i don't think its gonna burst. Im gonna take care of the static pressure when i do the cap tube.
08-05-2005, 06:22 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

3 Attachment(s)

UPDATE!!

Today was a good day for my system i got alot of work done on it.
I Increased the length of the cap tube on 2nd stage its now 130" long. You can see the difference in length between the old (top one) and the new one in the first pic.

At first i tried brazing a peice of copper tubing to an old propane tank but when i pressure tested it it leaked like hot monkey balls! I didn't have any flex to make the silver bond to the tank so i went with a tried and true method of making an addon for the expansion tank.

See next post for more pics and info.
08-05-2005, 06:32 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

3 Attachment(s)

Again I used 90 degree bends and 3/4" tubing to make the expansion tank. I used alot of silfoss to make this addon, its longer than the orignal tank i added a few days back.You can see in pic 2&3 where the addon begins, Fits in place just like a jigsaw puzzle! :D

I had one minor setback tho when i first pressure tested the system with the addon peice there was one small leak it was at a spot that had a crack in the silfoss. The peice of tubing i was brazing at the time must have moved a bit after i removed the flame but it was easy to patch it up, and pressure tested the system again and no more leaks were found. :cool:

Gonna evac out the system tonight and recharge it tomorrow.
08-05-2005, 07:12 PM
stockhatch

Man this thing is the epitome of the ghetto cascade :D Cant wait to see the effect on static pressures. Good luck!
08-05-2005, 08:13 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockhatch

Man this thing is the epitome of the ghetto cascade :D Cant wait to see the effect on static pressures. Good luck!

im sry but what is epitome? lol. well with the orignal expansion tank i knocked off about 125-150psi with this addon tank and being longer the the orignal i expect to knock a further 175psi off so in all im hoping my static pressure will be around 200-250psi.
08-05-2005, 09:01 PM
stockhatch

It basically means that when somebody thinks of a ghetto cascade, they will think of yours. It sets the standard against which other ghetto cascades are measured :D
08-05-2005, 09:20 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockhatch

It basically means that when somebody thinks of a ghetto cascade, they will think of yours. It sets the standard against which other ghetto cascades are measured :D

LMAO Cool :guitar: :rocker:

What is it in particular about my system that made u say that anyhow?
08-06-2005, 09:39 AM
koensa

yeah nothing is wrong with yours, i remember berkuts first cascade with over 50pgs,man that was a mess ;-) and ghetto
08-06-2005, 09:43 AM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Quote:

Originally Posted by koensa

yeah nothing is wrong with yours, i remember berkuts first cascade with over 50pgs,man that was a mess ;-) and ghetto

Whats a pgs?
08-06-2005, 09:44 AM
koensa

pages, i mean the thread
sry for misunderstood in terms of cooling short words ;)
08-07-2005, 06:52 AM
kayl

HL4E_HalfLife ya should of just used a metre of 50mm pipe or something.
lucky ya dont have to insulate the expansion tanks :stick:
that some nice pipIN" happening there.
seeing bubbles in the slight glass, makes me want to install one i was suprised at that lenght of capillary line, 130" of what size capillary line.
is that 0.031"
08-07-2005, 07:48 AM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayl

HL4E_HalfLife ya should of just used a metre of 50mm pipe or something.
lucky ya dont have to insulate the expansion tanks :stick:
that some nice pipIN" happening there.
seeing bubbles in the slight glass, makes me want to install one i was suprised at that lenght of capillary line, 130" of what size capillary line.
is that 0.031"

Its either 0.027 or 0.028". I think i've got too much now my temps are worse than with the original cap length :( :(. Would a TXV work on a cascade with co2? if so what type should i use? and would it simulate over 100" of cap tubing? and what about those "cpev" things i never heard of those :confused:.
08-07-2005, 07:27 PM
stockhatch

I asked Chilly1 the same thing(why not use a TXV on the second stage) and he informed me that TXVs will not operate at temps that low. Many people use CPEVs on the low stage, so it can be done for sure. BTW, I dont mean anything negative when I say ghetto. I only think of it like that because of the experimental, building in stages approach you are using. Its a cool rig though, I cant wait to see it hit -100 :)
08-07-2005, 08:41 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockhatch

I asked Chilly1 the same thing(why not use a TXV on the second stage) and he informed me that TXVs will not operate at temps that low. Many people use CPEVs on the low stage, so it can be done for sure. BTW, I dont mean anything negative when I say ghetto. I only think of it like that because of the experimental, building in stages approach you are using. Its a cool rig though, I cant wait to see it hit -100 :)

LOL me to, is there a pacific type i need or does 1 size fits all?
08-08-2005, 02:21 PM
stockhatch

That I dont know. I need the question answered too though, because I plan on using one for my low stage as well.
08-09-2005, 10:49 AM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

This is a cpev yes? I was talking to Kerr Controls and my buddy there said he could get me a ACP(E)5 would that work with my system?

Heres a link to the specs of the valve.

http://www.emersonflowcontrols.com/web/products/txv/catalog/ACP(E)%20Valves.pdf
08-10-2005, 08:20 AM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

I need to know ASAP!! so i can have this ordered if it is.
08-12-2005, 10:43 AM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

No help at all on this...how dissapointing!! :shakes: :shakes:
08-12-2005, 10:52 AM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

3 Attachment(s)

Small UPDATE today

Since i replaced the better part of my evap (the part that was leaking) with some plain tubing the efficiency to chill the box went way down so yesterday at work i got this off of a fridge evap that was replaced. I made 3 U bends and brazed them in place making this a complete evap. This should increase the efficiency to cool tthe box at least 5 times better than plain tubing.

I have also taken 7.5 inches off the captube and will run a test to see if my temps are any better.
08-13-2005, 02:38 AM
kayl

thats a nice little condenser mod hey.
Sorry i know nothing about cpevs. :stick:
That bit shorter capillary line and new evap might just get you there though.
i told ya that last few degrees after -90c was going to be hard. :toast:
it will happen one night when ya least expect it hey. :woot:
08-13-2005, 08:33 AM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayl

thats a nice little condenser mod hey.
Sorry i know nothing about cpevs. :stick:
That bit shorter capillary line and new evap might just get you there though.
i told ya that last few degrees after -90c was going to be hard. :toast:
it will happen one night when ya least expect it hey. :woot:

You mean evap right?

Yea yesterday as i said i took out 7.5" of cap and gained 9f so than i took a further 5" of cap tube out and gained about another 4f (-134.8f) (started at -121f with new captube) So today im take another 5" and see what happens.

My buddy at Kerr Controls suggested I use a standard refrigeration valve as a cpev but to adjust it very very slowly. Heres a pic of the valve. I know its only a service valve but would what he suggested actually work?
08-13-2005, 10:20 AM
esdee

let us know if the valve works!
08-13-2005, 11:59 AM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Quote:

Originally Posted by esdee

let us know if the valve works!

Yea i'm gonna give it a try anyhow see if its possibile to use a plain service valve. Ill post results tonight weather its successful or not. Stay tuned!!
08-13-2005, 02:32 PM
Cr@sh_D1n3r

imo it will work but only when the valve is almost closed but I doubt you will have any control over the flow ( well maybe a bit but not how you wanted it )
08-13-2005, 05:13 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

1 Attachment(s)

Well I installed the valve as i said i would and believe it or not it works!! after loading up the gas again it shot way down to -90c. OMG i love having this valve installed now i can flood the evap to make up for high heatloads and as the box gets colder i slowly close off the valve some and i have alot of control over the suction pressure as well. I can adjust it 1psi at a time :D

This is the only pic i took tonight bit too bright i think but thats partly because the entire valve is covered in frost. :p:
08-14-2005, 02:55 AM
esdee

waaaaaaaay interesting. im going to use it for testing..
have you used a CPEV? can you comprare how 'precise' the refrig valve is comprared to the CPEV?
good work there _HL4E_HalfLife_

/edit can you run the 2nd stage in vacum?
08-14-2005, 03:05 AM
hatemi

Glad you got that valve working:) Pretty unorthodox but if it works then who cares :)
08-16-2005, 05:24 PM
stockhatch

Thats pretty sweet! I guess these high dollar CPEVs and TXVs are overrated :D
08-16-2005, 07:55 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Quote:

Originally Posted by esdee

waaaaaaaay interesting. im going to use it for testing..
have you used a CPEV? can you comprare how 'precise' the refrig valve is comprared to the CPEV?
good work there _HL4E_HalfLife_

/edit can you run the 2nd stage in vacum?

I couldn't get a cpev so i couldn't tell yea the difference sorry :(. I can run 2nd stage in a vacuum no problem its just a matter of slowly adjusting the valve. Its pretty easy to get it to run where i want it. So who bloody needs a cpev valve i just prooved that u can use a standard refrigeration valve :D :D.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockhatch

Thats pretty sweet! I guess these high dollar CPEVs and TXVs are overrated :D

You said it bro!! Check my next post for some eye candy. :D
08-16-2005, 07:57 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

1 Attachment(s)

Time for a few new words above my Avatar don't you think?

If i had some cash i would try R1150 :( Anyone got some extra lying around they could donate? :D

EDIT: I dono why a thumbnail isn't showing up of the pic?? :confused:
08-16-2005, 08:36 PM
n00b 0f l337

Congrats. Thats freaking amazin.
08-17-2005, 03:05 AM
esdee

these refrig valve results are amazing.
i will make a roundup soon as for the second stage expansion device
refrig valve/mapp gas bottle valve(nice adjustment)/TXV modded to HAV
08-17-2005, 08:43 AM
kayl

congrads on that. i knew ya would get it if ya keep at it. :toast:
if ya lived in my home town i would give ya some heheh.
but now ya gonna -100c ya have to turn that into a direct die and bench. ;)
08-17-2005, 01:04 PM
stockhatch

Congrats man! Awesome temps. Have you loaded the system yet to see how it holds under stress? I am curious how the valve will behave under a load...
08-17-2005, 01:43 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockhatch

Congrats man! Awesome temps. Have you loaded the system yet to see how it holds under stress? I am curious how the valve will behave under a load...

I have a bit of work to do on the box before i can load it up but ill be posting that soon.
08-17-2005, 08:05 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

2 Attachment(s)

I did a bit of sprucing up with the aluminum tape i got last week. I ran a small no load test to see how cold i could make the box and im not sure yet but i might have to go out and buy a cooler because im not sure my box is keeping the heat out very well because the lowest i was able to get was -63c (suction line was about -85c) thats quite a difference there. Suggestions?

Please note that this is ambient temps in the box and not the temp of the suction line!!

I also found out a way to keep the view window clear when it cold in the box all i did was i had some water+antifreeze mixture lying around so i poured some of it on to the view window and there you have it a clear window......that was untill the antifreeze couldn't keep up with dropping temp in the box lol. I took a pic of the antifreeze freezing you could acually see the ice crystals forming and growing across the view window it was really cool. :D :D :cool: :cool:

Ps.Who do i talk to about changing my status from xtreme Member to -100c club?
08-24-2005, 09:59 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Ok today i tried a heatload in the box. Its an old hairdryer rated for only 250watts so im not sure its proper for a heatload since its blowing heated air out instead of just being a hot surface like a cpu would have. Does it matter if it's forced heated air rather than just a hot metal plate? :confused:
08-24-2005, 10:45 PM
Cr@sh_D1n3r

Isn't the -100c club for phase-change system for pc? This is just a box...It has nothing to do with computers.
08-24-2005, 11:13 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cr@sh_D1n3r

Isn't the -100c club for phase-change system for pc? This is just a box...It has nothing to do with computers.

I don't think it matters what its for when u reach -100c on co2. kayl reached -100c on co2 but his evap wasn't mounted to his idleing cpu and neither was mine the only difference is his evap is ment to be mounted to a cpu my evap chills the air in the box which in turn will be chilling hardware as i had said along time ago that i would be testing older pc hardware and seeing the effects extreme cold has on them.
08-25-2005, 06:47 AM
Waus-mod

Good goin... great work if you reached -100c club! congrats
08-27-2005, 09:37 AM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

2 Attachment(s)

Small update today.

I replaced the air inlet and outlet grills in the box because when i had the system running frost would build up on them and would reduce air flow. Doing this has gained me several degrees.

as for the view window so much for keeping it clear (pic2)...... :mad:
08-27-2005, 11:25 AM
gclg2000

Pffftt....

You must be the newest "noobie" (?) member to the -100C club.. ;) :woot:

Welcome! :toast: :toast:
08-27-2005, 11:27 AM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Quote:

Originally Posted by gclg2000

Pffftt....

You must be the newest "noobie" (?) member to the -100C club.. ;) :woot:

Welcome! :toast: :toast:

LOL why yes i am. So when should i expect my medal to arrive in the mail? ;)
08-27-2005, 02:54 PM
f00t

hey, what part of NS are you in, i'll be in halifax for the next while
08-28-2005, 04:37 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Quote:

Originally Posted by f00t

hey, what part of NS are you in, i'll be in halifax for the next while

Bridgewater, its about an hours drive on the 103 highway from Halifax. :cool:
09-05-2005, 04:50 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

2 Attachment(s)

SMALL UPDATE!

Right from the start i didn't like where the filter drier, sight glass, and the cap tube selector was on first stage. The filter drier and sight glass were way off to one side and i dono how many times i banged into it so tonight i finally moved it. I was also having some load/temp problems with first stage and im hoping that having the valves vertical will solve this problem.

Heres 2 new pics of what it looks like now.
09-05-2005, 10:33 PM
Comp-Freak

Looks ok :thumbsup:
09-06-2005, 09:46 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Thx Comp

My current record temp in the box is -70.3c im hoping that fixing this problem on first stage will improve those temps some.

Ill update again soon with some temps and load pressures on 2nd stage. I know stock is egar to know how the valve acts under a load heh.
06-10-2009, 04:18 AM
Maxspam

Sorry if bumping this ruined anyones day but, I just want to say that was an amazing read at about 2 hours I am exauhsted If I hear cascade one more time...
Thanks for the read and congrats?
07-08-2009, 11:49 AM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

It looks a bit different now i took out the 5 valve/cap tube selection thing and put in a TXV.

I learned much from building this beast.
07-08-2009, 01:32 PM
RoadconeTuning

pictures of it currently? load temps after newest mods?
07-17-2009, 11:00 AM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

I'll post a pic of what it looks like now when i get home.
07-19-2009, 06:52 PM
_HL4E_HalfLife_

Sorry about the wait, I totally forgot to post the pics.

Here they are. This is what the system looks like currently

Enjoy.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8291/txv.jpg

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4...vinstalled.jpg

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3852/cascade1.jpg

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3341/cascade2.jpg

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