I have tried just about every combination of methanol water and antifreeze .
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I have tried just about every combination of methanol water and antifreeze .
No...i don't have a way to ciculate it....the evap is just "chilling"..lol...it is just sitting in it...how should i go about getting the liquid ion there to constantly flow?Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Are you circulating the anti-freeze? It needs to be kept moving through the evaporator coils.
This is the part the where things can get confusing do to the wording but if you dig a little and read labels you will find that
gas line antifreeze = methanol
denatured alcohol = ethyl alcohol rendered poison usualy with methanol and some other goodies with similar properties
window washer fluid = methanol and water
Methyl alcohol = methanol
wood alcohol = methyl alcohol = methanol = CH3OH.
Methanol has a melting point of -97.8c
I have found that even agitated antifreeze will slush up and be unpumpable. Unless of course your using something like the water pump in your auto
With a pump?Quote:
No...i don't have a way to ciculate it....the evap is just "chilling"..lol...it is just sitting in it...how should i go about getting the liquid ion there to constantly flow?
Glycol based anti-freeze thickens when cold, making it more difficult to pump. Alcohol based anti-freeze, such as methanol, I think is better for our purposes.Quote:
I have found that even agitated antifreeze will slush up and be unpumpable.
So yea what sort of pump are we talking here .
lol= gary.
I'm pretty sure he has glycol in there.hehe
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
With a pump?
well right now i am simply testing the system...once i put in my pump for my water cooling system will that be sufficeint enough to circulate the water>
I only use the glycol based stuff for its anticorrosive agents and just enough to keep the flashpoint down on the methanol.
What mixture would you recommend, Jamal?
Yes, that should be sufficient.Quote:
well right now i am simply testing the system...once i put in my pump for my water cooling system will that be sufficeint enough to circulate the water>
works for me but I have just a little over 2 gallons of coolant and a 500 gph pump and a 75 gph pump. How much coolant you have by the way ?Quote:
Originally posted by Conflict
well right now i am simply testing the system...once i put in my pump for my water cooling system will that be sufficeint enough to circulate the water>
right around 60/40 methanol/water or 60/40 methanol/glycol based for the anticorrosive agent . I like 65/35 as it pumps a bit better but its more flamable.Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
What mixture would you recommend, Jamal?
Well right now i have a Eheim 1260 pump and there is 5 gallons of fluid in there...and with my cooler and the lack of piping that is the least i can use..it JUST covers the evap.....but i set it in there for now and i can for sure see the difference...definately mixing things up...i think i am gonna leave on in there and buy another for running the water cooling lines
wow this is definately a learnign experience....i can;t believe how cold it is.
Yea a lot of fun huh? Not to difficult either. so what temp you getting ???
just so you know the least expensive way I've found to purchase methanol is in the one gallon cans sold as shallac thinner in paint departments here in the us it runs around $9.00 a gallon.
coldest thing I've experienced to date is when I put a 50 watt peltier on my cpu block chilled down to -25c. The peltier was -40c I couldn't resist the urge to lick off all that pretty frost...
I have no idea what the temps are exactly...i have no thermometer of any kind to check...all i know is i stuck a small platic cup full of water in the coolant and checked it an hour later and it was frozen solid....im guessing around -20c to -30C
I think it would be really neat if you could run down to the nearest home and garden center and grab an indoor/outdoor thermometer that goes down to -40c or so...AND GET US SOME PICS! lol. hehe.
well i can take pics of the ice and substantial amounts of frost on the lines but my capture card died after posting pics last night...
If anyone knows of a program that can be used with firewire to get video off of a digital camcorder PLEASE let me know.
I think i may shut it off and let all the ice melt over night and then start again since i have the pump in there now..i bet i could get colder
also..lmao..the way i have everything else set up is terrible...a mess..haha...all I cared about was the evap getting in that cooler!
as for the nearest home and garden center.....lol...umm...i guess im not real keen on driving an hour and a half for a thermometer..ahahaQuote:
Originally posted by jamaljaco
I think it would be really neat if you could run down to the nearest home and garden center and grab an indoor/outdoor thermometer that goes down to -40c or so...AND GET US SOME PICS! lol. hehe.
Conflict, what video editing programs do you have? I use either Microsoft Movie Maker 2.0 or WinDVD.
Well props man ! you got it in with no broken lines,I'm sure that took some creative thinking from what I saw in the pics,
So radio in yer mate with the bush plane and have him drop you one ,lol...Quote:
Originally posted by Conflict
as for the nearest home and garden center.....lol...umm...i guess im not real keen on driving an hour and a half for a thermometer..ahaha
:D
hehe guys guess what conflict did!...I managed to get my capture card back to life...for some reason i always have problems with it when using windows 2000!
Anyway, i uninstalled it..moved it to a seperate slot and now it is working!
Here come the pics!
Well...here is that beautiful color white......the lines frosting up pretty
This is while everything was still together
A close up of the bottom lines
man it was soo hard to cut them free!
The top line...also a PITA to get free...but i had a plan and stuck to it!
I will go take pics of my current mess downstairs...lol
Look at all that ice!
more ice
The whole setup..yea i still have alot of stuff to do with setting up the condensor and compressor in a final spot on wood...this was just a setup to get the evap in ice quick to test
Here is my pump under the coolant...mixing it all up
That is the pictures i have for now..if any one would like a more specific pis let me know....wow..im impressed
OMG! It morphed!
Conflict, you said you ran this thing all last winter...where you at? Down Under?
HAHA..i wish it had morphed...then i wouldn;t have had to spend the time and break such a sweat getting it situatedQuote:
Originally posted by jamaljaco
OMG! It morphed!
I'm thinking the orientation of that evap needs to be as close to the original as posible as i do believe gravity aids in this process.
All last summer...lol..i wish i was down underQuote:
Originally posted by GeekGoddess
Conflict, you said you ran this thing all last winter...where you at? Down Under?
Actually im in northern MN...i already overclocked my computer with much colder temps then this last week when it was -40F at night...stuck it on the roof....now im just messing around really...wanted to see what i could do...i am the kinda guy who loves finding new projects
Rock On :rocker:
I'm watching because I think I have the sickness too!!!
Great thread and keep up the good work!!!
And the pics :slobber:
Quote:
Originally posted by Conflict
All last summer...lol..i wish i was down under
Actually im in northern MN...i already overclocked my computer with much colder temps then this last week when it was -40F at night...stuck it on the roof....now im just messing around really...wanted to see what i could do...i am the kinda guy who loves finding new projects
Well then, it seems that was a heckova typo! LOL
BTW,,welcome to the sickness! :D
:D :stick: LOLQuote:
Originally posted by Conflict
...it ran fine last winter...kept an entire house AWESONEly cold...well it has been in a garage since
yea i have my momentsQuote:
Originally posted by GeekGoddess
:D :stick: LOL
Geek Goddess this fine lad works his @ss of on this project and you poke him with a stick.
yup, something like this, vapor into the top of the condenser, liquid out the bottom. Liquid into the bottom of the evaporator, vapor out the top. http://oberon.ark.com/~airekool/rb2.htmQuote:
Originally posted by jamaljaco
I'm thinking the orientation of that evap needs to be as close to the original as posible as i do believe gravity aids in this process.
I would try to get that evap more upright.
I'l poke YOU with a stick!!! ;) :DQuote:
Originally posted by jamaljaco
Geek Goddess this fine lad works his @ss of on this project and you poke him with a stick.
:stick: :stick: :stick: :stick: :stick: :stick: :stick: :stick:
well..currently i have absolutely no way to get the evap upright....the lines i have to work with are nowhere near long enough to situate it upright...if i decide to make this a major build i may go ahead and lengthen everything so that it is a really "pretty" setup and everything is situated correctly...for now...im learning and having fun!
Conflict, the advice I was giving you had nothing to do with aesthetics it's a matter of functionality. I wasn't saying it had to be perfectly upright, just more so would be a lot better. just raise the top so that its higher than the bottom, as much as you can. Maybe we can get Gary to comment on this.I'm no expert ,hardly a novice..
Jamal, sorry to say but this is the absolute best i think i can do...any more upright is gonna result in more fluid being added...which is gonna result in less flow and more ice....lol..its a lose lose situation i think...but....i am happy to say i think i am satisfied with this setupQuote:
Originally posted by jamaljaco
Conflict, the advice I was giving you had nothing to do with aesthetics it's a matter of functionality. I wasn't saying it had to be perfectly upright, just more so would be a lot better. just raise the top so that its higher than the bottom, as much as you can. Maybe we can get Gary to comment on this.I'm no expert ,hardly a novice..
I may go with alcohol though
hehehe...my water block formed frost...in about 3 minutes of use....0o0o0o0o this is gonna be fun!
Ewwwww... Nasty ugly white stuff everywhere.
Frost is the enemy. Insulation is our friend. :D
time for neoprene and seal string action.
Just as a point of interest, some may be wondering why the condenser fan blade has a ring around the edge. This is called a "slinger ring". The air conditioner dehumifies the air. The water moves to the condenser section, is picked up by the slinger and sprayed onto the warm condenser coil. This gets rid of the water and helps to cool the condenser at the same time.
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Just as a point of interest, some may be wondering why the condenser fan blade has a ring around the edge. This is called a "slinger ring". The air conditioner dehumifies the air. The water moves to the condenser section, is picked up by the slinger and sprayed onto the warm condenser coil. This gets rid of the water and helps to cool the condenser at the same time.
OOo coool, i soo want the aircon above me. Its mine i said!!
wow....more then 14 hours since i shut the unit off ans the ice has barely melted....the liquid is still VERY cold
Got the pump running? Circulation will help melt the ice.
yea it was running since early this morning..i just took it out a little while ago because i am setting up the water cooling kit and lines...think im gonna try to see what kinda temps I can get a CPU down to. Im also looking how i can modify a AMD water block to fit on a Pentium 4 Chip...grrr...i have already maxed out all of my AMD computers using air( -40F air)...so i wann see what my Pentium 4 machines can doQuote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Got the pump running? Circulation will help melt the ice.
Just wondering , what was your cpu temp with the -40f air ? What chip, volts and clock?
CPU temp was measured by Motherboard montior and was around 11F at FULL load.
Chip was a AMD 3200 i am rather new to overclocking so i am not sure about the exact number the volt was at...it was as high as possible. And i was able to get it to post at 2970 something...I could bench with 3d mark at 2800+.
Sweet,
just think now you don't have to freeze yer @ss of to clock.
You get a temp guage yet? and some kinda alcohol?
i never had to freeze my butt off before either...i just stuck the computer on the roof.Quote:
Originally posted by jamaljaco
Sweet,
just think now you don't have to freeze yer @ss of to clock.
You get a temp guage yet? and some kinda alcohol?
Nope..i can;t afford a guage or alcohol yet
Well im not sure exactly how correct this thermometer is but i took the front grill off of one of my computers because it has a thermostat on there. I went downstairs and grabbed bout an inch worth of coolant from the cooler and ran upstairs to test it..when i first put the temp probe in it said -27C...by the time in had the camera ready to record this is what she showed
After an hour of running the machine thats not too bad
The weird thing is...all of the ice i had form yesterday...well more then 24 hours later it was still -5C in there....this is truly extreme cooling...wow...less then an hour to cool 5 gallons of fluid more then 20 degrees..pretty xtreme! Im gonna leave it running over night and see what i can get
thats probably 1000 btu/hr..
Quote:
Originally posted by chilly1
thats probably 1000 btu/hr..
if i let this run all night long what do you think my temps will be...
I just insulated the cover of the cooler with the neoprene insualtion you sent me..made it so there is no other air getting in there when the cover is shut..i also insulated the lines from just off the compressor all the way to the cooler.
Im hoping for -40C by morning
Well the fun begins...fluid temps down to -34C. I just built a computer too see what kinda of overclock i can get. Because I overclocked my 3200 as far as it could go on extremely cold air..this time i decided to use a AMD 2000+ to see how far it will push...i am freezing the chip for a few hours right now...and then time for some fun!
Well im not satisfied completely...it isn;t cold enough for my needs....when i used the cold air outside the chip was never above freezing...now it is hovering around 11C. I have contact problems and there is nothing i can do about it at this time..i think it is maybe the springs on the waterblock.
I am sooo interested in cooling now i want to make it into a direct die!
You haven't tuned it yet, so you don't know how low it can go.
Next you need to get a piercing valve and a set of gauges.
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
You haven't tuned it yet, so you don't know how low it can go.
Next you need to get a piercing valve and a set of gauges.
Is there a poor person overclocking refrigeration fund...lol....
We are not talking bigtime expenditures here. Piercing valves are cheap, and you will need gauges for whatever you want to do next. You will need to learn how to tune the refrigerant charge before you even think about going direct die. And you can eventually transform the system you have into direct die, too. First you need to acquire a few basic skills.
Just because it makes the water cold doesn't mean it is working right. Not even close. It can make that water a LOT colder.
Ok, there seems to be an issue here...is it possible that due to the ince of frost...lol..yea seriously an inch....on the pipes before the cooler that I am losing alot of cooling power. Yesterday I had temps of -34C. Right now I have temps of -15C. The CPU has been on but there is no way i lost that much temperture due to the CPU. Especially since i have 5 gallons of fluid in there.
Does frost on the lines take away from the end result coolness?
If something feels cool to the touch, it wants insulation. If it feels cold, it needs insulation. If it frosts, it is screaming for insulation. Frost is the enemy. Insulation is our friend.
You are probably having oil problems as well, because the system has WAY too much refrigerant in it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
You are probably having oil problems as well, because the system has WAY too much refrigerant in it.
Well, how do i go about telling. I spoke with chilly1 and explained to him how everything is set up and sounded good. We were worried about liquid refrigerant making it back to the compressor but no probs with that....
How do you tell if there is WAY to much refrigeratn in it.
I turned the unit off and once it all melts off the lines i am gonna insulate the he!! out of it.
I want this as cold as possible!
How do you know that?Quote:
Well, how do i go about telling. I spoke with chilly1 and explained to him how everything is set up and sounded good. We were worried about liquid refrigerant making it back to the compressor but no probs with that....
Me too. Get a piercing valve and a set of gauges. Then after you get it tuned, we will talk about changing the cap tube to make it even colder.Quote:
I want this as cold as possible!
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
How do you know that?
Me too. Get a piercing valve and a set of gauges. Then after you get it tuned, we will talk about changing the cap tube to make it even colder.
What guages exactly..and ill see what i can do
Something like this:
http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Tools_...gauge_sets.asp
This site also has gauges. And piercing valves as well. Click on "product locator" and "line piercing access valves".
http://jbind.com/
With these type of chiller setups, would a pestier be of any assistance in lower temps on the chip??
If so what wattage for the various chips?
Thanks
K
edit/ ummm, heh a peltier!
:)
Insulating every square inch from the compressor to the coolant level has helped a TON. -41C right now!
Oh..and damn girls..my wife told me to stick my tongue to the block to see how cold it was....well..i am from Northern Mn, i should know better then to stick my tongue to metal thats -40, well, not thinking because it was so small and in my house...i tried it OUCH!
Anyway...it is awesomely cold, i just can;t convince my cpu to work correctly. Gonna try a different motherboard tommorrow.
Where can i get vacuum pump things and fill gauges in aus?
I take it the evaporator is still laying flat on its back, and your saying" there seems to be an issue here". There is an inch of frost on your lines. your loosing cooling power and yes you can lose that much cooling power to a cpu its happining.Sounds like you need more evaporation to go on in the evaporator and a little less everywhere else.Quote:
Originally posted by Conflict
Ok, there seems to be an issue here...is it possible that due to the ince of frost...lol..yea seriously an inch....on the pipes before the cooler that I am losing alot of cooling power. Yesterday I had temps of -34C. Right now I have temps of -15C. The CPU has been on but there is no way i lost that much temperture due to the CPU. Especially since i have 5 gallons of fluid in there.
Does frost on the lines take away from the end result coolness?
Yea i did an insulation job and i did it the xtreme way..lol...two layers every square inch of piping..lol...i have gained(lost..however ya wanna see it) considerable temps! At -41 right nowQuote:
Originally posted by jamaljaco
I take it the evaporator is still laying flat on its back, and your saying" there seems to be an issue here". There is an inch of frost on your lines. your loosing cooling power and yes you can lose that much cooling power to a cpu its happining.Sounds like you need more evaporation to go on in the evaporator and a little less everywhere else.
Conflict, that with direct die with your ac unit?
Nope it isn;t a direct die yet!Quote:
Originally posted by kommando
Conflict, that with direct die with your ac unit?
Just a plain ole waterchiller
And what is it doing at idle? Or fully loaded?Quote:
Originally posted by Conflict
Yea i did an insulation job and i did it the xtreme way..lol...two layers every square inch of piping..lol...i have gained(lost..however ya wanna see it) considerable temps! At -41 right now
With a chilled pelt you can kick @ss. Your pelt still needs to be the right wattage for your heatload . I did some experiments with a 50 watt pelt just to se what it would do unloaded .Quote:
Originally posted by kokoro_kara
With these type of chiller setups, would a pestier be of any assistance in lower temps on the chip??
If so what wattage for the various chips?
Thanks
K
edit/ ummm, heh a peltier!
:)
Well my motherboard bios doesn;t show anythign below 0C (32F). When anything is below that it just goes blank.
And when i was downstairs testing it was blank. Im not real happy right now because I screwedup the hard drive. After my first attmept at raising the FSB from 133 to 160 it posted and went into windows. Went back into bios after restarting and it showed 3C. Took the next step and tried doing 175 it started to load windows...after the final loading screen I got a blue screen error claiming Inaccessible Boot Device. I am reformating and installing windows right now to try again. No idea what happened.
Coolant temps is still showing -41C. I am not sure if the CPU will put off enough heat to raise the coolant temps that much.
OK...well I went out and bought a real temperture monitoring device from the hard ware store. It only reports Farenheit tempertures but at elast i know it reports them accurately.
And im not real happy ...it is only reporting -4F in the coldest spot i can find in the cooler.
I guess I was hoping for much more cold. Any tips or tricks....i mean it still keeps my CPU below freezing...but there must be a way to get colder temps
Well, Lets see,hmmm? Oh yea , maybe having your evaporator laying flat on its back in the bottom of your res could be the.... No wait that cant be it .lol.
lol...yea yea yea....if i had a way to move it i would
But really....how much of a difference could it really make how it is situated...the refrigerant is still evaporating...
I believe with some creative thinking you could find a solution.Still evaporating yes ,but ask yourself where? You want as much of the refrigerant as posible to evaporate where it was intended and where you have your coolant .http://www.phase-change.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1187
Well i turned everything off for tonight...i think tommorrow I am gonna try to at least bend it to a 45 degree angle
:stick: Hehe, yea ,just sit and look at it for a while something will come to you , also if you raise the coolant level think of something to to displace it so you dont have to add more ,you may even find a way to use less coolant through displacement .Don't expect your temps just to drop a bunch I don't think it will do that but I do think it will help you with the load it will handle, A lot of the guys I see with AC chillers get around -25c coolant temps as they are overcharged as Gary keeps reminding us we wont get the real drops till we tune our charge.Quote:
Originally posted by Conflict
Well i turned everything off for tonight...i think tommorrow I am gonna try to at least bend it to a 45 degree angle
I don't believe your new thermometer. But then, I didn't believe your old thermometer, either. Try them in icewater and see if they are somewhere near accurate.
More importantly, the compressor isn't safe from floodback. I'm thinking your system has an accumulator in the suction line. That is the device that is saving your compressor. I don't recall seeing one on conflicts's system.Quote:
A lot of the guys I see with AC chillers get around -25c coolant temps as they are overcharged as Gary keeps reminding us we wont get the real drops till we tune our charge.
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
I don't believe your new thermometer. But then, I didn't believe your old thermometer, either. Try them in icewater and see if they are somewhere near accurate.
What dont you believe about the new thermometer? Do you think it is lower or higher then that?
This is a Taylor temperture probe that is suppose to be used for liquid temps. I got it from the hardware store and my cousin whos dad owns the local refrigeration place reccomended this thermometer...so as far as I am concerned it is right.
I stuck it outside the window and it is reporting the exact same temperture as my outdoor thermometer and the weather channel are reporting.
I spoke with chilly1 and he said that i should slightly pinch the cap lines going into the evap and that will help me to drop the temps. I guess I didn;t totally understand the reasoning but I trust what he says so i think im gonna try it tommorrow after I rebend everything to its final resting spot
I think someone who knows what he is doing could make the cap tube pinch work... sorta. It is not something I would recommend to anyone.
well....given the extremely basic tools and knowledge I am working with...other then setting the evap slightly upward...what would be a good place to start with in tuning this system to drop temps?