That depends on your CPU/Ram speed. If it's like 4ghz then I am sure there will be very minimal differences. As you get closer to 5ghz, CPU bottlenecks get smaller and storage speed matters more.
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What about the maintenance work of the firmware? I've used an X25-M 80GB G1 as an OS drive for months without permanent performance degradation.
Also, reading about a possible 4 hour long firmware update doesn't sound very encouraging.
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=56948
My friend went to Thailand on vacation so i borrowed his intel drive to do some tests with 3*Intel X25-M G2 80GB in Raid 0 on my Motherboards ICH10R Controller
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...et/3xIntel.png
Is one of the disks bad or is it the ICH10R controller limiting my read speed to stay below 700MB? What is the best Raid 0 stripe size to choose for best overall OS performance with SSD 3 drives?
Why is his CM so pretty? I wish my CM was that pretty :(
Yes, ICH limits you to sub 700MB/s. Stripe size 128k is best.
Huh? The X25-M G1's DID need a F/W update.
I don't know anything about a 4hr F/W update. My F/W updates have taken less than 1 second to flash on the Vertexes. If it takes more time than that, you're doing it wrong.
I'm not trying to defend OCZ or INTEL here - I'm using both products. I am not brand-biased at all, I buy the hottest product out, whenever it's out. But yet, you're still nitpicking OCZ from the sounds of it, making up 4hr firmware updates. The thing takes literally 5-10 including all reboots. How long did the intel take?
I'm talking about performance degradation through general use. After firmware 8820 for X25-M a few months ago, it was basically an install and forget SSD. No need to run any wiper tool that could potentially corrupt your data or clean erasing. The drive kept itself in good condition.
As for the long firmware update, the info is on the OCZ website link I posted previously.
The point is the X25-M has been largely trouble free, while OCZ users had to go through quite an ordeal of "betaware" to get to where they're today. That is what contributes to my lack of confidence in their product.
It doesn't always keep itself in good condition. It depends entirely on the workload, and that workload can still be described as general.
Shame that G1 ain't getting TRIM! because then there would be 0 issues with degradation.
Currently got my vertex's back in my desktop in raid 0 as the G2 delays are getting beyond the joke, as was the Indilinx launch.
Truth is I forgot how good a few of these puppies are in raid 0 (write back cache off). I actually think the 'average ssd user' MAY get more noticeable daily task performance out of a couple of 120gb turbos than the G2's!
Is it still ok?
Little worried about mine now!
Alanis Morissette springs to mind from all the comments back in march.
Gunna join the G2 beta testers party this time Griff? Oh the irony Lol!
:party::party3::party2::guitar::banana3::banana2: <- Looks like this banana's got stage fright!
Edit: oh remember Griff 'Quality' SSD's shouldn't be anymore risky than buying HDD's!
I can't understand why you haven't been jumping up and down on this issue already!!!
Again Rhys... Intel has not stated that they will not release TRIM support for the G1 drives. So, get over it- You sound like a 3 year old who overreacts and exaggerates everything. CX-RAY and Earzz are having a similar issue but it is not anywhere near confirmed to be the drives themselves yet. The G2 has a single issue that 99% of all users would never have even noticed. On top of that, Intel has already addressed the problem. So, tell me how buying a G2 is a risk- go ahead, tell me.
Also, the G2 has only been delayed for less than 2 weeks- that is nowhere near the months that Indlinix was delayed. Intel has already released a shipment so now it's just a matter of supply and demand- the first batch was already bought out. That's different than a product launch delay.
Rhys, do you work in the media? You'd do a good job there blowing things way out of proportion and making crazy claims about things without any kind of information to back it up-
At the moment things appear to be functioning properly again. I've put the pc to sleep 7 times now. One of the sleep sessions was a real one of several hours as opposed to the others which were only quick tests. I've also set the pc not to reboot after a BSOD so I can see what the error code is if it happens again.
Have intel released a g2 firmware update for the drives that slipped out before the bios password issue became evident?
cx-ray, what changed to stop the issues that you reported? I would be surprised if the offset was the problem. This only occurred in sleep mode? Did you submit a support ticket to intel?
Well i had the same problems as cx-ray, i fixed my problems with removing my ssd's and leave them out for a few minutes after i used hdderase.
The problem was not only in sleep mode, it also removed the RAID after the PC was turned off.
Now im running my G2's in RAID without problems anymore, so i keep my fingers crossed.
Thanks for the help guys.
I've only had the BSOD and complete loss of the RAID 0 volume once. That was after I used HDDERASE 3.3 and let Vista set the default offset.
The crash happened right after waking up from sleep mode for the first time. After that I used HDDERASE again and installed my stuff with the 128KB offset I initially used. Nothing else is different.
I don't know whether the offset caused it and didn't feel like installing Vista all over again just to find out :) Things appeared to work fine previously so that was one variable I could rule out. I now also have full and current back ups in case it happens again.
I think it's too early to submit a ticket to Intel. In my case it was only a single occurrence after all.
Similar to what Brahmzy is saying. From using both a vertex and x25-m there is zero perceived OS loading between the two. The only place you can really tell the difference is when you are creating/copying/saving large files such as iso's PSD files .RAR's etc.
When SSD's were too expensive to fit 'many' working files sequential write speed wasn't much of an issue. But now SSD's are getting bigger and cheaper many of us can now begin to work directly with files off our SSD's because they are now becoming big enough to do so, at least at a more reasonable cost.
I think people are now underestimating the importance of sequential speed, and the all round performance of a drive as a whole.
A couple of 120gb Turbos 'should' give you roughly the following.
240gb of space
550mb/s Reads
400mb/s Writes
A couple of 80gb G2's 'should' give you roughly the following.
150gb of space
550mb/s Reads
160mb/s Writes
Of course I'm not currently sure of the price differences there will be when both are 'fully' released.
Apparently the Turbos will be replacing all the Vertex's but the Vertex will still receive full support.
Griff come on!
All the reviewers that I'm sure work closely with Intel say Intel will not support TRIM on G1. I'm sure ALL of them didn't say this for no reason. And with the silence of Intel I think we can safely say they are not going to.
Maybe in the future they might well decide to support G1, i.e. if dumping the G1 is getting too much bad press. But apart from that chance it's obvious it's a done deal. A fool should be able to see the writing on the wall.
As for me working in the media, Lol!
The media is a propaganda machine designed to form your opinions for you, so you don't have to, the sheeple believe whatever lies their fed to just give reason/justify various actions or policies.
Yet I bet you still think they simply exaggerate stuff.
Yeh I know, But for instance I spend most of may time working with large PSD files. Even though fast sequential speed may not be taken advantage of when loading apps/etc they are when your loading/Saving 2gb PSD files.
When I'm working with images ect, I like to hit the save button periodically encase my system crashes, When the files get to >2gb it takes ages to save and slows down your work flow, and generally interupts your train oh thought.
Big write speed makes your work allot more efficient.
Edit: Loaded a 1.8gb PSD in Photoshop CS4 (Photoshop was already loaded)
Drives
7200 rpm 1TB hitachi 75/ishmb/s writes in Crystal diskmark
2x Vertex 30gb Write back cache off 200ish mb/s writes Crystal
Load time
SSD 5.6 secs
HDD 29.9 secs
Save time
SSD 9.4 secs
HDD 20.8
The situation on the OCZ link is far from common. 95% of FW flashers have no issues at all. It's cake.
The Vertexes have GC now which keeps them all clean. I think OCZ's philosophy differs a bit from intel. They are specifically aimed at enthusiasts, and they'll be the first to admit it - they have. They have provided almost monthly FW updates to their customers and have requested feedback. This has fine-tuned their product to be an excellent one, in many ways. This has basically used the consumer as a beta-tester, if you want to call it that. Their product came out solid and is even better today, in fact, the Vertex may stay cleaner than the intel SSDs do (at least the G1's, from personal experience) I have a RAID0 Vertex array that performs the same now as it did when I first installed it, better actually. And this is with heavy use and a lot of data on the array. It maintains it's write performance, thanks to GC.
So, intel's philosophy is less-frequent FW updates with more changes, OCZ's is more-frequent FW updates with fewer changes - that's how I see it. Intel has a much bigger in-house testing/beta mechanism than OCZ does. HOWEVER, OCZ and the other Indilinx vendors have direct input/communication for future FW fixes, where as that line doesn't really exist with intel with it's cutomer base, although it has not been needed as much.
We all know this is newer tech and these problems will not even be a concern a year from now as things mature. Both excellent products, but I have to give OCZ and Indilinx respect and credit for their hard work on taking steps to pefect this cutting-edge tech.
Ocz are a niche company selling low volume cutting edge products at a high profit margin i.e. the enthusiast market. Nothing wrong with that but they obviously have to be very focused on customer support to retain that market. “Enthusiast” support i.e. how do I tweak this product, what’s coming next etc is something ocz excel in. Product support, outside of RMA, i.e. firmware updates, however comes down to who is supplying the product they are rebranding. With Indilinx it has worked out well for them and whist they can’t make changes to the product themselves they have been able to influence changes.
Intel on the other hand sell by volume and “enthusiast” support is non existent. On one hand that is disappointing for a new product but on the other hand Intel did a lot of work to understand usage patterns etc before they started design, which enabled them to release an optimised product to the market from day one. What they have been hopeless at is interacting with customers and explaining how best to use that product, but they are just not set up to do that. That’s not to say you don’t get support, they just do it via a support ticket rather than a forum.
I actually think ocz took a bit of a risk with Indilinx, as at the time it a new company made from allot of ex Samsung engineers and pretty much unknown to most of us.
I think as Indilinx was so new and hadn't had chance to build up any find of reputation yet, OCZ wanted more control, and Indilinx obliged.
It wasn't until the bugs were worked out that other manufacturers jumped on the bandwagon.
Luckily it all seems to have paid off!
I'm actually really looking forward to the next gen controller they will release because a) they should have learn't allot b) they should have plenty of cash now to spend on R&D.
I've looked at Intels' site and there is no sign of a fw update for G2, which you thought they would have posted as soon as it was avilable for those that already have the drives with the password bug. It makes me wonder if returned drives are being flashed with new fw yet.
34nm is a big jump. It's not V2 it’s G2. Maybe around the same performance, but it's a leap in technology. I'm hoping that Earzz & cx-ray's problems aren’t an indication of a problem as a result of that. Until TRIM is available I don’t see any real advantage of the G2 drives (apart from price) so I don’t see why there would have been a big rush to get these drives out early. In other words if there are bugs it will be disappointing.
I think the firmware update might be available next week, I'm not sure on this....just something I read somewhere suggested so.
Have a read for yourself guys
Might even be out tomorrow?
John
A general question on trim? will there be trim for vertex and intel drives in raid0?
I know vertexs got a wiper now but only for single drives.
so vertexes don't degrade anymore? the sequential writes are now 150mb/sec even at worst case scenario?
No the vertex's do degrade, just as the x25 does, and both work differently at resolving the issue.
The x25-m tries to defrag it's self on the fly, but it is dependant that you are not constantly writing tiny files. If you have been particularly hard on your x25-m you can write a few large files a few times and you will begin to see improvement, you can keep doing this until your drive is in good shape again.
The Vertex defrags itself when it is relatively idle, this does a very good job at keeping the drives in almost perfect condition but you need to let the drive sit for a little while. We are currently expecting a newer firmware that can defrag an extremely (few Iometer runs) used vertex in 8 minutes. This means that the drive is defraging fast enough that you don't need to give it any idle time, yet don't have to worry about the type of files your working on either.
Will trim work on 2x160gb G2 intel SSD's in raid 0 in windows 7 ?
Is anything known about it yet ?
Trim doesn't work in an regular raid 0 array - only if it is supported by the controller (firmware/software).
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=56307
How much of a speed boost does Raid 0 actually give to SSD drives or is it mostly for size increase?
NEW FIRMWARE UPDATE FOR GEN2 X-25M CAN BE FOUND HERE
Sadly no release notes and no update for Gen1 drives :(
Firmware version is 80902G. (for Gen2) and the 8820 for Gen1 (it's all on the same ISO)
EDIT I have the release notes.
JohnQuote:
X18-M/X25-M (34nm product) Revision History
Date Revision Description
10 August 2009 2CV102G9 This firmware revision is for X25-M 34nm products only (X18-M 34nm products do not require this firmware update) and fixes the following two issues:
1) System hangs with BIOS drive password enabled
2) System inoperable when BIOS drive password disabled or changed
For updates and complete information on known issues see:
http://www.intel.com/support/ssdc/hpssd/x25m/
X18-M/25-M (50nm product) Revision History
Date Revision Description
10 August 2009 No change No change for 50nm products. The most current firmware stays at 045C8820
13 April 2009 045C8820 This firmware revision has several continuous improvement optimizations intended to provide the best possible user experience with the Intel SSD
Thanks for the link. I got both my 160G2 drives updated without loss of data and RAID 0 functionality.
Once small caveat, on my R2E mobo BIOS v1504 it appears that the Intel firmware update tool only detected the SSD drives on SATA port 1&2.
No problem guys :)
Keep your eyes pealed on incoming firmware updates, no ETA as of yet, but X-25E is due to have an update fairly soon
John
SSDs are just like any other storage concerning RAID0, only faster and even more efficient scaling than mechanical disks. There can be zero noticable gains and there can be virtually double performance gains. It all depends on how you use your storage.
I benefit greatly from RAID0 performance with what I do, others may not.
The ICH10R is a great controller for RAID0.
according to ZipZoomFly, G2 ETA is 8-15
Read guys.
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=60874
Tony from OCZ found something interesting about the Intel ICH* chipsets, RAID and TRIM.
I got a bit more hope now about TRIM and RAID :up:
Now hopefully Intel will release the TRIM FW quickly.
The dates for most other sites have been getting pushed back.
NewEgg also removed their 160GB G2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820167017
Rhys
Any idea when those drives will hit the market? I mean supposed timetable? Maybe 6 mos. from now?
Too bad if that's case.
But I'll still be optimistic for SATA 6Gbps though, since the G2 drives refresh is scheduled at 1H 2010.
Its best for the newer drives(Intel's) to have 6Gbps by then.
From what I can remember from reading an article the next gen indilinx (aka 'jet stream') controller is scheduled to be released in about 6 months.
Obviously delays can happen, but I would rather stick with a couple of vertex's for now and then spend my money on drives that may actually make a difference.
AMD should have sata 3.0 support for their sb800 chipset (apparently it's pretty damn fast) before the end of the year, and Intel mobo's should have sata 3.0 support from 3rd party chips until ICH11R comes some time in 2010
I would only trust gardware card to be out for sata 3.0 and really work of the bat. Even intel chipset would definetly have to prove itself dependable again... and AMD... well I wouldn't touch first few gen of those controllers wit a 6ft. pole... such a great track record they have
According to Intel's Product Manager “in 2010, when SATA 3 comes in at 6Gbps, we’re obviously looking at products which will even saturate that bus. So, higher capacities, better performance, including some other value props we have in terms of making the system better.”
That was stated in a blog in September 08. http://blog.laptopmag.com/intel-prod...ger-talks-ssds
Why did Intel get into SSD? Because HDD was a bottleneck that was threatening the growth of faster cpu’s. I would not be surprised if a G3 comes out quite quickly once SATA 3 is available with a supporting Intel board.
I have a question regarding mounting of the drive. I noticed it has four screw holes at the bottom. Would it be possible to use those holes (with thumb screws maybe) and mount it on the side of regular hard drive cage?
E.g. instead of mounting it like a normal drive where you use holes on the side, could I use holes on the bottom? I hope it makes sense...
Of course it would....
You might have to drill a few new ones in the cage though because it might not line up perfectly :D
Edit:
Just checked for you...
You can get a 2 hole mount no problem but for 4 you'd better get your drill out (at least with my cages).
How about Velcro?
Thanks for checking Biker,
2 holes will be definitely enough for me. My cages will be empty, with one lonely SSD sitting there and other hard drives will be moved to a fileserver in another room.
I am really looking forward to being able to sleep with my pc on :D
Ditched my Raptor for a silent X25m-G2 :D
http://recore.info/images/ssd.jpg
I also found a mounting method on another forum for if you don't know how to mount your drive.
http://tweakers.net/ext/f/ewZYw49ij8...98yad/full.jpg
Velcro's the best method in my opinion, it works well for me.
I still dont understand why anyone would bother mounting an SSD. Just dump them anywhere and let them hang around. It is not like they will break like HDDs. If I dont want mine to move then I just duct tape them to a side of the bay :D
I made stands out of pennies then just taped them in place as well :)
Mine's sitting on the static bag it came in, on top of a board.
Case builders need to step up their game!
...however current situation is forcing people to be creative again! :D
Is this drive to be found anywhere in the US? Newegg still has it back order =(
this sucks my notebook at work is killing me :(
The Akasa AK-MX010 is a nice solution for one or two drives.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...-8&sa=N&tab=wi
Just a heads up folks:
Got notification 2 minutes ago that my X25-M G2's have just been shipped out from the UK retailer I ordered from (Scan) so all you backordered peeps should be getting yours shipped around now as well :)
Still showing out of stock on their website but thats no surprise as I expect these puppies to have been ordered a lot over the last few weeks ;)
You're a star Biker, great shout. I ordered mine just now, it should be here next Monday. Price is good too: £171
It breaks my heart buying from Scan as I hate them so much, but I want that Intel SSD even more. I just hope I won't have to RMA it so Scan. I've been there, done that and never I want to do it again...
EDIT:
I F*cking hate SCAN!!!
Two hours after I ordered they emailed me this:
This is the worst company on the planet :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scan
EDIT 2:
Drive was delivered to me on 28th.
The 80Gb G2s are now back on-stock at Scan.
Newegg removed their red notice saying "temporary out of stock" too. They might have stocks by now, hopefully.
160GB back in stock at newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820167017
Hey guys are Scan really that bad? I've had no problems with RMA's, in fact I’d say they have been the best company I’ve dealt with. They sent me an email to apologies after I cancelled my order for the G2 (the day before they arrived in stock) and offered me free shipping for my next order. It was not their fault that Intel recalled the drives and can’t subsequently get enough out on the shelves.
hi,
does anyone know if trim will be supported by the intel x25-m when i'm running it as a non raid member on a raid controller (i have 3 WD 640gb , 2 are in raid 0, and 1 is non raid member boot drive)?
in my mobo bios (p5q pro) i have to set my config as raid, and i'm not sure if trim on the x25 will work through my onboard raid controller.
thanks
My problem is they lied to me over a motherboard, they sent me a used broken motherboard, it had been opened and had heavy soiling marks on it and the stickers over the RAM slots were ripped and the CPU plate cover was broken, when I reported it they said it was definately not a secondhand motherboard but infact they open EVERY motherboard to check that it's OK, they collected it and sent me another upon opening it I found the backplate missing, I rang and told them and asked why this was not found when they checked it before sending it and was told they don't check it before sending!!!
Then I bought a Silverstone TJ07 when I eventually got round to building it found the perspex side window had a crack through one of the screw holes I contacted them asking what they can do and they quoted a new replacement price saying I had left it over 30 days before telling them.
We had a long argument over it and in the end I bought one from another shop and closed my account with Scan, this all esculated because some one decided to send me a secondhand broken motherboard, which then goes on record then the missing part again on record and finally the side panel, they must have thought I did it myself I think and tried to blame them.
But what I didn't say is I had been a customer for 2 years and had spent over £8,000 on 34 different orders and 31 of them without a single problem.
But when the first thing went wrong they immediately lied to me.
Exactly.
Sometimes they give very poor service.
Long way to go before they give consistently poor service like overclockers though ;)
So the 160G is out again and when will the 80G's come back in, anyone have an idea? Waiting forever on that.
I have a feeling you will see them return to stock for open orders in the next week.
Lambda Tek have got 15 in stock today. (Was 16 ;) £161 including vat
320GB G2 listed now in the EU:
http://geizhals.at/eu/a444071.html
Well, its back in UK I can see, and when will the 80G come back in the U.S then, the 80G one, only thing left for my new rig.
I finally just bought some Summit drives cause they were on sale in the US and there are still no Intel G2 or Crucial drives in stock :'(
I am at my wits end with ASUS and their lack of customer support :(
anyway back on topic, keep your eyes pealed for TRIMing within the next 2 to 3 weeks.
Rumour has it Microsoft and Intel are "demoing" it along with other snazzy Windows 7 + Intel products related things on the 1st of September......
John
Single G2, Win 7 on a fresh instal, no tweaks
AS SSD Benchmark 1.2.3506.28865
------------------------------
Name: INTEL SSDSA2M080G2GC ATA Device
Firmware: 2CV102G9
Interface: IDE
Size: 74.53 GB
Date: 25/08/2009 13:01:08
------------------------------
Sequential:
------------------------------
Read: 255.83 MB/s
Write: 80.39 MB/s
------------------------------
4K:
------------------------------
Read: 24.81 MB/s
Write: 45.00 MB/s
------------------------------
4K-64Threads:
------------------------------
Read: 151.56 MB/s
Write: 53.66 MB/s
------------------------------
Access Times:
------------------------------
Read: 0.066 ms
Write: 0.084 ms
------------------------------
Score:
------------------------------
Read: 202
Write: 107
Total: 413
------------------------------
AS SSD Copy-Benchmark 1.2.3506.28865
------------------------------
Name: INTEL SSDSA2M080G2GC ATA Device
Firmware: 2CV102G9
Interface: IDE
Size: 74.53 GB
Date: 25/08/2009 13:07:09
------------------------------
ISO
------------------------------
Speed:94.92 MB/s
Duration:11.32 s
------------------------------
Prog
------------------------------
Speed:68.67 MB/s
Duration:20.49 s
------------------------------
Game
------------------------------
Speed:79.82 MB/s
Duration:17.30 s
Looks good audienceofone. I can't wait to get my hands on one of these. Now if only newegg or someone would get them in stock...
Newegg says they should be in stock 8/28/09.
Newegg get some today I think for like an hour then they are sold out, now it's like 9/02/09, I didn't get mine either.
They were in stock for a grand total of 10 minutes. 10 :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing minutes. :angry:
I ordered one from NCIX a few hours ago, still said pre-order at the time but i finally decided to go for it. Any thoughts on when i should expect them to ship it out? (aka when they will get enough to fill the most recent pre-orders)
So this is what happened: About 2:30 PM Pacific time, I got an auto-notify email from newegg said that the X-25M G2 is available, I went there immediately to grab it but then it seems my Safari browser on my Macbook doesn't work with Bing cashback. I did spend sometimes try to make it work but still no luck, I then switched to my desktop and finally got it working, put in my cart but then the price already went up to $239.99 and the status switch back to Auto-notify. Patient enough, I still sit there and keep refreshing the page and eventually put it in my cart again but on the way check out, my cart became empty and the price is now $249.99 with the ETA of 09/02. So basically they're sold out within 2-3 mins or so every time the price is going up. Lesson learn: you just gotto sit in front of your computer for 24/7 till the ETA since you never know when they're back in stock again and once they're in, they fly off the shelves even faster than the amount of time you spend to check out.
Just got my hands on four of these babies! Two to costumers and two for me...Yummy!
I think you need to test them before you deliver. It's the professional way. ;)
I heard best stress test is RAID 0.