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The Antec 300/900/1200 look even more similar to the Lian-Li.
Some pictures of my built BoneTrail:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3002/...08d9421a55.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3276/...1eba0c608a.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3142/...ae7ae0c139.jpg
-bZj
Hmmm,Quote:
Originally Posted by clark_carty
I've been testing this, but it seems to be an issue with BIOS version 1554. The only way I can also get into BIOS is using the jumper on the MB.
I've turned off the S3 Standby features, but it would have been nice to use these. Hopefully this will be resolved in the next release.
Yes, I think you did mis understand. There are 3 power connectors on the DX38BT. A 2x12, a 2x4 by the CPU, and a 1x4 next to the HD audio link. I had the first two connected, but not the last one. The 1x4 is not required, but recommended if you use video cards that use over 75w. I don't know how much the 4850 uses, but I figured it won't hurt to try. So far it's running stable for about a day.Quote:
Originally Posted by xMrBunglex
Well yes, $400 is a lot for a case. And I certainly understand those who won't buy them. That's okay with me :). As you can see with my current build in my sig (Yut), I only spend $850 which includes the case. It is a budget system. The Lian li case would not be for a budget system.Quote:
Originally Posted by xMrBunglex
Comparing with the Cooler Master, I would say yes, the Cooler Master is much better value. However, price asside, they are not the same case. I'd much rather have the Lian Li. It's not just about looks. It's about what it's like to work on, the material, and yes, the looks too :). My last case (Frost in my sig) is a lian li case and it is an absolute joy to work on compare to Yut's current piece of crap case (we'll leave the make/model out so I'm not dissing). I bought the Lian Li case for Frost over 6 years ago, and I have no reason to get rid of it now. I think it was about $140 at the time, so much less than the one I am considering.
Also, considering the lifetime of a case compared to the components we put in them and the price we pay for those components, I don't think $400 is a lot. The case easily lasts through many generations of processors/video cards.
Are they overpriced? I certainly understand those who think they are. I don't think so, but they do cost a lot more than most are willing to pay. The thing is, many people have no problem spending $660 on a GTX 280, or $1000 on a QX CPU, or $600 or more on RAM. In comparison to all those components, I don't think $400 is a lot for a good case. Especially if you intend to put a lot of hard drives in there with some Raid cards, and some external drive bays as well, like me :D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by down8
Damn,
nice job on that !
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
I still have some tweaking left, but it should be a good rig - hopefully enough to last me until the Nehalem refresh - minor upgrades notwithstanding. :D
I do hope Intel gets some more work done on the BIOS - I miss my BadAxe2's reliability.
Note: that skull & bones badge is milled aluminum, not plastic. :thumbsup:
-bZj
Hi everyone,
This is my first post here, but I have been reading the previous posts I found since January or so, by xMrBunglex and others.
I was hoping to build a stable, bug-free, reliable system, so I went with Intel as many other people have done because of their supposed reliability, engineering department and customer service. The BadAxe being outdated now and not really in stock, I bought the DX48BT2 two weeks ago. I have been disappointed, as I have found more bugs and issues than with the previous systems I have assembled...Anyway, I have a couple of questions and suggestions for the experts here ;o) based on numerous tests I have done over the past week and a half:
1. I found a bug during the first boot sequence of my motherboard with my configuration. I know that the motherboard is supposed to cycle power on/off after BIOS changes or other hardware changes (which is a little strange to begin with!) -- however, on my first boot ever, the power cycled on/off twice, then booted. Subsequent boots are fine. Then I installed Vista and updated from the March 2008 BIOS to the May release, and now it only cycles on/off only once on the first boot, then displays a message saying that the POST was not successful and asking if I want to go in the BIOS to check options – even though all settings are unchanged, and subsequent boots are fine, so there are no issues (subsequent boots, reboots, etc, Vista are OK). This would happen again if I disconnect the power supply from AC, wait for the LED next to the RAM to go off, then wait again another minute (or keep the power button pressed), then re-plug the power. Some people apparently do not experience this issue; I have talked to Intel, and they did tests on their own motherboard, and found the same issue (POST unsuccessful message on first boot)!!! The two techs at Intel doing the test I asked them to do on their own computer were surprised. Although on their PC it was random (less than half the time on more than ten tests that they told me they did) – for me it's all the time. In each case, there is the DX48BT2, DDR1333, and a 45 nm quad processor. They have escalated the issue to engineering and are currently investigating, since they saw the bug on their own configuration!! The first boot with correct settings should not be unsuccessful. The POST message is not because of the watchdog seeing the power removed on contrary to what an Intel tech first said (they know think it's a bug with the standby power not being applied correctly at first or something). Also, the fans spin on very high no matter if you have the BIOS control the fans or not – only on subsequent boots they return to normal control. There is the same bug with or without the watchdog as well. I'm now waiting on Intel. I've done other tests with other power supplies, other memory brands, even nothing else plugged to the mobo (no keyboard, even no graphics card), the issue on the first boot after applying power the first time is the same no matter what.
*****I wonder how many people here have the same bug? Anybody wants to try? You have to make sure that you remove power long enough.******
2. I found another bug with my motherboard, with the SMBus controller (SMBUS – 2930 in system device in the device manager). On my second re-installation of Vista, a popup message in the taskbar said that no driver for the device were found. I did not see that message the first time but maybe missed it because it appears only once long after installation of the drivers. In the device manager, it shows no exclamation point, no error. But if I right click on it, properties: in Device Status, it says "no drivers installed". But on the next tab, Driver, it shows the Intel driver and date! Clicking on driver details of the same tab says: no drivers found! WTF?! I reinstalled Vista from fresh, nothing else but just that, no other drivers or programs, same bug. Then I contacted Intel, tried to uninstall, reinstall the driver, same. The version is from the CD, 8.3.1.1010 from October 2007, same as the website. Then the tech guy said to look in the general chipset page of Intel's website, and there you search and can find the INF driver for Intel series 4, dated June 2008, version 9.xxx, but it's not shown on the page of the DX48BT2!!! The tech explained that it's because they need to "update the page", and the "series 8.3.xx and 8.4.xx of the drivers had issues", and I should reinstall windows and use only the 9.x series dated from June. In addition to the confusion between their own versions and different drivers for the same product on different pages (great quality control guys! This is crazy!!), I found after yet another vista reinstall, that the same issue is there. I only found it because of the Vista popup message in the taskbar since in the device manager there is no exclamation point. Vista offered to download again the ICH9 drivers (again, they are installed, the "installation successful" is there, all other devices show OK with no such error and the correct Intel version etc!!). The popup message from Vista happened at different times after installation, sometimes after many reboots, install of all other drivers and programs, sometimes early on.
Also, the version on the CD and on the DX48BT2 page is 8.3.1010 (10/2007), while the new one on another Intel page is 9.xxx for the INF installation package (dated June 2008), but the actual driver version is 8.6.xxx, dated from 2007 up to 02/2008 for some drivers depending on the device (PCI, etc). It sounds like they had updated the drivers, but waited until June to update the entire package/installation program to be released; indeed the installation package has a different name now according to Intel: " Chipset Device Software" but there is a bug where "the old Intel (R) Chipset Software Installation Utility name can be seen briefly when the setup program is executed".
http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Deta...ng&PrdMap=2973
http://downloadcenter.intel.com/filt...l&submit=Go%21
********Has anyone seen that issue? If you click on the properties/device status for the SMBus controller – 2930, what does it say? And if you click on Driver Details?********
3. I saw posts from xMrBunglex and others about the northbridge temperature, but people use the onboard sensor which is not the chipset itself. You can't use an IR gun well unless you set the emissivity correctly, and does not always work great, because the heatsink on the northbridge is metallic and reflective. My motherboard says 30 to 45 degrees C for the onboard sensors, but touching the northbridge heatsink it's very hot – by far the only and warmest part of the system. Based on comparison and the time until you have to release your finger because it is too hot, I would estimate the temperature to be between 55 and 65 degrees C. It is almost burning to the touch. Can anyone else try that too? If you have a small 40mm fan, is the base of the heatsink very hot? Note that apparently it's supposed to operate up to 97 degrees C (which is extremely hot!!).
Nick
regarding number 3: i have a 40mm fan on my NB heatsink and it's always cool to the touch. i just have a quiet little Scythe Mini-Kaze. it doesn't take much to keep it cool.
Was it really hot to the touch before that? I wonder if I need one, if for example, I'm not overclocking.Quote:
Originally Posted by xMrBunglex
Regarding #2 in my post, do you see the same bug in Vista? I'd really like to know if it's really a bug with the drivers or my configuration...or I need RMA.
Regarding #1, I'd also like to know if and how many people see the same bug at first boot or after removing power. In any case when I get an update from Intel I'll let everyone know. Yesterday they told me their engineers are still working on it.
I have a 40mm Sunon on mine as well, and the heatsink is pretty warm. Then again, I am shoving a lot of volts through it..........
I replaced my Northbridge sink with an Enzotech RNB-B1 heatsink.
tRD option is under test plus some skew options that help with memory overclocking. Watchdog is playing up so what I have stable one moment will be eaten by the watchdog timer the next, so the bios is very Alpha and I can not share.
I did see 550FSB X 7.5 with 1700MHZ ish ram 4GB 7-7-7-24 with 6800MB/s+ in memtest and a short test in vista at 533FSB X8 so there is promise.
tRD yess!!!!!!! :D :D :D
going to abuse this northbridge
Thanks for the update Tony!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
Welcome Nick!Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_DX48BT2
I see weird issues with booting as well. I get stuck in the "watchdog" message loop but I can usually get out of it by enabling the watchdog, saving, then disabling the watchdog and saving again. I think every board has got different boot issues. :)
My SMBus controller says version 6.4.0.1 dated 1/1/2007. I don't remember having any of the issues you describe with the drivers.
If you're not overclocking and the heatsink is hot, maybe you don't have enough airflow in the case. Also, running with the case open can cause overheating because the airflow isn't directoed over the components any more.
my NB heatsink was never really hot to the touch (445 FSB, 1.35 vFSB, 1.425 vMCH for daily use). it would get warm at the base before i put the fan on it, but never so hot i couldn't keep a finger on it. but i do have an Antec 900 case with a 120mm side fan, so airflow has always been really good in there.
Miwo has an Enzotech heatsink, which explains why it would feel hotter to the touch than my stock one. Enzo makes good stuff and a hot heatsink means it's transferring a lot of heat, which means it's doing its job well.
I think it just means that the heat isn't being carried away fast enough. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by xMrBunglex
I agree with gtj, it definitely isnt getting carried away fast enough :)
Copper heatsinks conduct heat better, but require higher airflow to dissipate the heat over aluminum. Thats why a lot of heatsinks have a copper base and aluminum fins.
Unfortuantely for me, I absolutely CAN'T STAND high rpms on 40mm screamers. Tried a 40x28mm Delta and that thing pierced my skull x_x . Im using a slower speed 40x20 Maglev Sunon and its much more bearable,.....though at the expense of cooling obviously. Infrared Thermometer shows 115F on my Enzotech Northbridge Sink with 1.55v vMCH running through it (bios setting is 1.625v)
ohhh i take that back, my Infrared Thermometer was hitting the front fits close to the bottom of the fan. Measured the lowest point closest to the heatsink base and temperatures are roughly 126F under Prime Blend on the Northbridge.
Toastyyy, but I am rock stable regardless. Will see if I can reduce the vMCH a tad ;)
My NB sink was pretty warm to the touch before I went to H2O. I don't recal what my IR them. said, but I couldn't keep my finger on it for long.
It's under water now though, so should be as cool as it can get. :)
-bZj
a heatsink that is cool to the touch can be a sign that it isn't transferring heat away from the chip well. it doesn't necessarily mean the chip isn't getting hot. but you guys are right; a really hot heatsink is usually not a good sign.
Well,
I have my Crossfire 4870's in place and it does get me another 2500 or so 3Dmarks. Unfortunately, gameplay (Bioshock) is slower and choppier than with the single 280GTX. Although the install with the 8.6 drivers was a lot smoother than my attempt with the 3870's I tried earlier. The problem I always have is the question of whether or not Crossfire is functioning or not in gameplay, and correctly. I'll do some more reading and decide which one to stick with, but I really prefer the single card solution.
I also purchased this board recently (middle of June 08), but have had stable reliable performance, with the exception of S3 Standby. Found that when I had S3 Standby issues, I could enter the BIOS, save changes (without making any) and it would return to proper operation. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_DX48BT2
I'm using Windows Vista Home Premium X64bit edition. I've only had to install it once and that was when the BIOS was the original it shipped with (1521). I'd since performed the 1554 update but still have not yet had changes to the S3 to make it 100% all the time without going to BIOS occassionally. But overal I'm still happy.
! Recently I had this happen twice. However I've not yet had a recurrance. Seemed to be fixed again, when I'd once again gone into BIOS, saved changes (without making any) and then restarting.Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_DX48BT2
Please note, when I'm doing the BIOS, I have to use the jumper. For some reason I cannot press F2 as the USB keyboard, which I've replaced thinking it was the keyboard, is not recognized by the system until the POST process has completed and I'm already starting to load Vista. The USB keyboard recognition is what is making me less than happy, but I don't frequently have to go to BIOS, except when the S3 feature goes squirely again.
Driver date: 1/13/2007Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_DX48BT2
Driver version: 8.3.0.1008
Not sure, but I've not performed any updates. When going to this page: http://www.intel.com/Products/Deskto...8BT2-tools.htm
If I click on Downloads and select Vista x64, I don't see the same version options you receive. I also note that the release notes specifically state the X38 chipset, where as the links you provided talk about version 4 chipsets. I'm not entirely certain, but the chipset versions listed seem to be for much earlier chipset models. Could there be some confusion over the model of chipset? Or perhaps it's because you are using 32bit Vista and I'm using 64bit?
I'd a 40mm fan from a Jing Ting JTS-0006 northbridge cooler I had for my older AMD nForce 4 MB. I'd moved that fan, but not the older heatsink, to my DX48BT2 (since the old board is toast after 6+ years). I'd performed the fan move, because while the specifications stated it was within the recommended tempuratures that the passive heatsink would burn you when touched. This has turned to very warm with the fan, but no longer the pain inducer it used to be. If others have a Jing Ting and had worked out how to mount the copper heatsink/heatpipe combo, it may be much better than the aluminum block Intel provides.Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_DX48BT2
I suspect the passiveness was in consideration that many would use HSF combos other than the stock Intel cooler and have much more air circulation over the MCH passive heatsink. I strongly recommend a 40mm fan if one is using the stock Intel HSF for their Quad, or if they don't have significant numbers of fans forcing air through the case.
What used to work for huge overclocks with my old AMD X2 obviously isn't anywere up to par for Q6600 based OC's. I've a Xigmatek S1823 on the way along with the optional 775 bracket (so to releave stress on the MB that the pin mount applies).
Can you provide us more details on the case, power supply and other aspects to your computer. All of these add up to the comprehensive total and provide better troubleshooting of the stability issues.
I'll compile a complete list of mine for comparison.
i have dual 4870's on my BT and i love them. i actually feel true love for these cards. CrossFire performance is awesome in games that scale with CrossFire. there are a few games that don't play well with it - those are the games i disable CrossFire for before playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
download Fraps and run it in the background while you test games with CF enabled and disabled. the framerate counter will let you know if/how well CF is working for a particular game. also, make sure you're running the 8.6 Hotfix driver or 8.7 beta driver if you're feeling froggy. don't run the regular 8.6 driver with these cards. 8.7 will be the first official driver for the new Radeons.
Tony, thanks for the update, tRD/PL will be great. I guess a lot of us here asked Intel for it, glad they were listening. Also, those clocks are nothing short of impressive!! Mem looks good too, I guess OCZ, right?
Like gtj, I have SMBus driver 2.0, 6.4.0.1 dated 1/1/2007, those I believe were installed with the IDCC, not the original INF ones. No probs here.
The USB issue some of you refer is within specs I believe. USB legacy support is on at boot, then disabled after POST until OS starts, then USB support for the OS is loaded from the drivers. This is how it's supposed to work really. Unless I misunderstood your problem and this is not the way it happens to you.
Regarding INF/chipset versions, well, the new 9.xxx do state 3 series support, so I guess we're on with the BT/X38, as well as the BT/X48, since 4 series is supported as well. As usual, Intel forgot to update the download pages and include this last version. I believe they always have issues with their INFs, never clear which are the latest and work with which chipset. Always been that way I guess.
Haven't flashed 1554 yet, was waiting for the new BIOS version but it has been 2 months since last release, guess guys at Intel are hard at work. S3 is a setback then, glad you mentioned it.
If anyone has any suggestions on overclocking my system I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm pretty new to the overclocking and this board seems especially touchy.
Randy I see that you are also running a quad, maybe you'd have some advice for me or anyone really I just noticed you have a quad and its running about 45c under load, am i reading that right?
this isn't the most nub-friendly overclocker in the world. i'd recommend reading through this thread at your convenience to learn as much as you can. also make sure you have the latest BIOS. and i personally wouldn't install IDCC until at least you're sure everything is stable. IDCC was the source of many headaches for me. and 45° load for a quad core is a lofty goal. don't worry if yours runs hotter. shoot, my dual core runs hotter than that.