New rumor about ATI Southern Islands

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tajoh111

+ 1
holy man. Someone finally see what i see. Rather than some crazy shifting strategy that benefits the consumer.

---

+2 :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ripken204

+2 :)

---

How true is this. I hope this turns out to be false.

http://www.techpowerup.com/132459/AM...00-Series.html

AMD Rebranding HD 5770 and HD 5750 to HD 6700 Series

Hard to say as they have allready post this on the 3 sept 2010 ( same site ).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jaredpace

It's a similar naming convention to what took place with G92 and 8800gtx -> 9800gtx.

---

No, it isn't.

I think I covered this on a previous post in this thread, like the above post says...
Nvidia did RENAME (grabbed an already released part and give it a different name)

AMD is simply naming.

TWO different verbs.... two different actions.....

I can't wait for all the "well I had a 5870 and bought a 6870 and it wasn't faster" posts after this is all said and done.

The way some of you are talking I would think by the end of the year there should be 5-10 new threads started a day about it :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

I can't wait for all the "well I had a 5870 and bought a 6870 and it wasn't faster" posts after this is all said and done.

The way some of you are talking I would think by the end of the year there should be 5-10 new threads started a day about it :rolleyes:

---

threads under the name of "my 6870 is crap because unlike any informed buyer I just went and bought a gpu based on model name alone"

Seriously I will eat crow if these type of threads pop up, though I doubt it will happen. Money is tight and not everyone buys by a number. The people who do well they would make the wrong purchase anyway so it's a non issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kuroikenshi

threads under the name of "my 6870 is crap because unlike any informed buyer I just went and bought a gpu based on model name alone"

---

I think they will at least wonder why their choice of purchase costs 30% less than the previous model. its going to be an “omg awesome deal this shop doesnt know what its selling!” followed by an “oh what the? i dont think this is what i wanted. is this really the fastest model?”
eventually even the uninformed buyer will come to terms with the name change as he will at least enjoy a moment of satisfaction for having a top bin product for such a bargain.

these issues/threads will definitely appear.
unless you are people like us who actually pay attention to hardware news, there is really not a way to know.
sure reviews may show the truth in performance, but when things have been a certain way for quite some time, people become accustomed to that. anyone buying a 4870 or 5870 knew that what they were getting was one of ATI's high end cards.
unless ATI makes an effort to inform people about this (which i am almost positive they will not) then the majority of people will have no idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

I can't wait for all the "well I had a 5870 and bought a 6870 and it wasn't faster" posts after this is all said and done.

The way some of you are talking I would think by the end of the year there should be 5-10 new threads started a day about it :rolleyes:

---

Seriously, if somebody is foolish enough to expect a (i believe) US$ 229 card of NEW GENERATION mArch in the SAME PROCESS NODE having better performance compared to a US$ 399 or more card that was bought a year earlier, He/She totally DESERVES the fate he encounters. :down:

HD 5870 was an anomaly, the chip size is closer to an enthusiast level chip of yesterday such as R580 than a sweetspot chip like RV770, or even worse, the diminutive RV670. If any, this is a fault by AMD not naming RV870 as HD 5970 earlier, then calling Hemlock a HD 5970X2, but perhaps they had expected a better GTX 480 performance as competitor than what was happening later on, to justify RV870 as a sweetspot chip.

IMO, anyone buying a graphics card with the intention of installing it themselves should be tech savvy enough not to just base their purchase on model numbers.

I don't believe so many people on XS can be confused about the naming scheme! You guys must've been in a whole world of insanity when Nvidia moved from 9xxxGTX to GTX2x0? :shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frontl1ne

IMO, anyone buying a graphics card with the intention of installing it themselves should be tech savvy enough not to just base their purchase on model numbers.

I don't believe so many people on XS can be confused about the naming scheme! You guys must've been in a whole world of insanity when Nvidia moved from 9xxxGTX to GTX2x0? :shrug:

---

Lol ;) They were not, as it was their god that renamed. Not AMD the falsegod that just names.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frontl1ne

IMO, anyone buying a graphics card with the intention of installing it themselves should be tech savvy enough not to just base their purchase on model numbers.

I don't believe so many people on XS can be confused about the naming scheme! You guys must've been in a whole world of insanity when Nvidia moved from 9xxxGTX to GTX2x0? :shrug:

---

I already said this. Not too many people will upgrade from a 5870 to a 6870. I don't think very many people upgraded from 8800gt to 9800gt either. People don't buy every generation, its too expensive. The people who are hardcore enough to upgrade every generation are likely a hardware enthusiast that knows better.

What I can see happening alot is people upgrading from a 4870 to a 6870 and being quite disappointed in performance, none of these people know a 6970 big chip is the real successor to their card because there never has been a single chip 6970. And if the bench marks are correct, they are looking at a 50-60% performance increase from a 2 generation wait, which is honestly really crappy. If I sold my card for 60 dollars(a 4870) and spent 215 dollars(taxes, shipping, 250-260msrP), I would feel I should have kept my old card or got something better. I think to really get use out of eyefinity, you need something with atleast 5870 power so that 50-60% performance jump would be even more disappointing if I got an eyefinity setup..

At the rate both company are pumping out stuff, I would expect a 3x increase or 1.7 per generation or 2.89.

Pricing won't help a regular consumer make a wiser decision because they paid a similar amount for their 4870.

all I want to upgrade to is flagship 28nm
:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dimitriman

I think they will at least wonder why their choice of purchase costs 30% less than the previous model. its going to be an “omg awesome deal this shop doesnt know what its selling!” followed by an “oh what the? i dont think this is what i wanted. is this really the fastest model?”
eventually even the uninformed buyer will come to terms with the name change as he will at least enjoy a moment of satisfaction for having a top bin product for such a bargain.

---

followed swiftly by the horrendous feeling of being ripped off... "wait, this is the same as my 5870? this is going back to newegg..."

i can only sit on the sideline and laugh as those who trashed nvidia for the same thing defend the practice now...

So what is going to be the likely replacement for my 5970? I'm not sure if I want another dual GPU or go back to one gpu cards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 570091D

followed swiftly by the horrendous feeling of being ripped off... "wait, this is the same as my 5870? this is going back to newegg..."

i can only sit on the sideline and laugh as those who trashed nvidia for the same thing defend the practice now...

---

nvidia = known fact

ati = rumors up until we know better ...

and that my dear teddy-bear-avatar like posting individual is the simple truth,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 570091D

followed swiftly by the horrendous feeling of being ripped off... "wait, this is the same as my 5870? this is going back to newegg..."

i can only sit on the sideline and laugh as those who trashed nvidia for the same thing defend the practice now...

---

I can't wait to see when AMD employees and fanboys will break it down to us how this serves the betterment of mankind, like the 2 year long delay of Bulldozer or the hidden potential of the 2900Xt which will be unleashed by a driver later... I am still waiting for that actually. :D

I love when release day gets close... all the people with opinions/biases for a side come out

Why not wait for the numbers and see? A lot of people are hinting that the Vantage/3dMark scores dont tell real world performance

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuroimaho

I can't wait to see when AMD employees and fanboys will break it down to us how this serves the betterment of mankind, like the 2 year long delay of Bulldozer or the hidden potential of the 2900Xt which will be unleashed by a driver later... I am still waiting for that actually. :D

---

I really don't know where that is coming from, but you're mixing a released piece of hardware with TWO pieces of unreleased hardware... Bravo:clap::clap:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tajoh111

I already said this. Not too many people will upgrade from a 5870 to a 6870. I don't think very many people upgraded from 8800gt to 9800gt either. People don't buy every generation, its too expensive. The people who are hardcore enough to upgrade every generation are likely a hardware enthusiast that knows better.

What I can see happening alot is people upgrading from a 4870 to a 6870 and being quite disappointed in performance, none of these people know a 6970 big chip is the real successor to their card because there never has been a single chip 6970. And if the bench marks are correct, they are looking at a 50-60% performance increase from a 2 generation wait, which is honestly really crappy. If I sold my card for 60 dollars(a 4870) and spent 215 dollars(taxes, shipping, 250-260msrP), I would feel I should have kept my old card or got something better. I think to really get use out of eyefinity, you need something with atleast 5870 power so that 50-60% performance jump would be even more disappointing if I got an eyefinity setup..

At the rate both company are pumping out stuff, I would expect a 3x increase or 1.7 per generation or 2.89.

Pricing won't help a regular consumer make a wiser decision because they paid a similar amount for their 4870.

---

If I'm not mistaken, you seem to be missing something here... So, you as an average customer, step into the hardware store with your $215 (or go online). What do you see there? Certainly not a HD5870 for that price. With some luck maybe a HD5850. And a HD6870. So purchase the HD6870, and guess what - you just got better bang for you buck, a higher efficiency and more features.

Granted, the HD5870 will probably go a little bit lower in price, due to the new series. But to expect $300 performance from a $215 card is somewhat questionable. What about looking at it the way around? You could spend $300 on a HD5870, and be very disappointed when you find out that your neighbor that spent only $215 (on a HD6870) got nearly the same performance - along with better tessellation etc.

So, in other words, I believe most consumers don't want a certain card with a certain number, they just have a certain budget and go out to find a card that suits it. If AMD's pricing were to be way off here, it would be a ripoff indeed. But by the same sort of rumours that regard the name shift, AMD's pricing seems perfectly reasonable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ohnoitseddy

If I'm not mistaken, you seem to be missing something here... So, you as an average customer, step into the hardware store with your $215 (or go online). What do you see there? Certainly not a HD5870 for that price. With some luck maybe a HD5850. And a HD6870. So purchase the HD6870, and guess what - you just got better bang for you buck, a higher efficiency and more features.

Granted, the HD5870 will probably go a little bit lower in price, due to the new series. But to expect $300 performance from a $215 card is somewhat questionable. What about looking at it the way around? You could spend $300 on a HD5870, and be very disappointed when you find out that your neighbor that spent only $215 (on a HD6870) got nearly the same performance - along with better tessellation etc.

So, in other words, I believe most consumers don't want a certain card with a certain number, they just have a certain budget and go out to find a card that suits it. If AMD's pricing were to be way off here, it would be a ripoff indeed. But by the same sort of rumours that regard the name shift , AMD's pricing seems perfectly reasonable.

---

The 215 pricing is after selling your card. I am thinking Barts xt is going to be around 259 or higher as AMD as of late has been very expensive relative to the size of the chips they are selling.

Expecting to get better performance should be natural. The gtx 470 is much larger than a 5870 and performs about the same at this point and is 279 dollars. With a new architecture and smaller size, I could see AMD making really good improvement, something smaller than the 5870 and performing better. The point of new technology in videocards, is you get better performance for the price as technology improves. It is perfectly believable that AMD can get 5870 performance for the price of a 5850 as time moves forward. Look at the price difference and performance of cards like the 2900xt tp 4870. Have the cost and twice the performance. Or the 3870x2 to 4870. Both of these were the top tier from the generation before or two generations ago and they simply get beat by a card at a much cheaper price point.

If AMD is making a smaller chip, the lower price should be a given.

However if we are getting 5850 performance again at the same 259 dollar price point(maybe 5 percent better), I don't think we are getting a good deal as AMD is benefiting more than us.

Also modifying your example. What if you see two cards, the 5850 for 170 dollars on clearance and the 6870 for 259 what is the consumer going to buy? Both are the same speed in most games and the 5850 is a better deal. However normally the 6870 would be twice as fast as the 5850 because it is a generation ahead and is the top tier for single GPU chips, so you buy it thinking it is worth the extra cost. However in this case with the new naming your not getting closed to that. AMD just made an extra 90 bucks off you for a card that performs the same and cost less for them to produce.

If the vantage numbers are true. Your getting something much closer to 5850 performance than 5870(which partners seem to be suggesting) and if your paying 259, I don't think your getting that great a deal because that speed and price could have been received last generation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tajoh111

The 215 pricing is after selling your card. I am thinking Barts xt is going to be around 259 or higher as AMD as of late has been very expensive relative to the size of the chips they are selling.

Expecting to get better performance should be natural. The gtx 470 is much larger than a 5870 and performs about the same at this point and is 279 dollars. With a new architecture and smaller size, I could see AMD making really good improvement, something smaller than the 5870 and performing better. The point of new technology in videocards, is you get better performance for the price as technology improves. It is perfectly believable that AMD can get 5870 performance for the price of a 5850 as time moves forward. Look at the price difference and performance of cards like the 2900xt tp 4870. Have the cost and twice the performance. Or the 3870x2 to 4870. Both of these were the top tier from the generation before or two generations ago and they simply get beat by a card at a much cheaper price point.

If AMD is making a smaller chip, the lower price should be a given.

However if we are getting 5850 performance again at the same 259 dollar price point(maybe 5 percent better), I don't think we are getting a good deal as AMD is benefiting more than us.

Also modifying your example. What if you see two cards, the 5850 for 170 dollars on clearance and the 6870 for 259 what is the consumer going to buy? Both are the same speed in most games and the 5850 is a better deal. However normally the 6870 would be twice as fast as the 5850 because it is a generation ahead and is the top tier for single GPU chips, so you buy it thinking it is worth the extra cost. However in this case with the new naming your not getting closed to that. AMD just made an extra 90 bucks off you for a card that performs the same and cost less for them to produce.

If the vantage numbers are true. Your getting something much closer to 5850 performance than 5870(which partners seem to be suggesting) and if your paying 259, I don't think your getting that great a deal because that speed and price could have been received last generation.

---

Dude you are analyzing WAY too deep into this right now, all based on some Vantage/3dM scores with no CPU reference for each set of scores

First, you have no idea what size Barts is going to be... it's been hinted that it's roughly 1/3 the size of the GTX 470, so it can be priced below what a 5850/5870 was at release...

More than a few people have said the 68xx is a worthy successor to the 58xx's, so wait and see IMO. If they really improved DX11 tess/other performance, then I bet the performance delta increases in actual game benchmarks, and not 3dMark06/Vantage which won't see those changes put to use at all since those are very set on the DX9/10 feature set