Phenom 9500 w/ MSI K9A2 Platinum

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Yeah his 0743 died but 0744 didn't but I had a 0743 at the same time too and ran 2.2V-2.9V on for a long while and nothing happened. Far too many others did, no one but one or two brand MFG workers reported these dying in moments. No common user has reported such problems to date and most run 2.2-2.4V every day.

The problems was also when they ran low CPU volts and plus 2.2V on RAM adjacently and upping the CPU voltage would offset this. You had 1.4V n CPU, so this is why it can't be and you only had it for a very short while.

Your case is very different to theirs TBH. They had done nothing but plus 2.2V RAM and killed their new chip in moments as they said, but you've had yours for long and ran it at high temps/volts/speeds above stock, especially the temps many times were high (I would take those as +60C). That means it's almost impossible for us to rule out how and why that no-boot occurred. :(

---

It where the 9600's dying immediately the 9500's required more time. Can be that issue is somehow related to the 790FX chipset and that's why I had no problems with 2.2-2.25V on the M3A.
The chip is rated for max 1,5V and 70°C. It's really odd that he died at ~50° and 1,375V. But nevermind i joined the 9600BE-bingo, just receiped the confirmation that the 9600BE i ordered few hours ago is already on his way. With a little luck i'm on k10 again tomorrow. :cool:

A DMM with a temp probe just arrived. If i put the probe on the BE2400's IHS I measure ~27°C. Smart Guardian reports 42° C. That's only a 15° difference whould mean my phenom ran at 85°C minimum when SG reported 100°C.
Must say I expected prime to fail before the cpu dies if that high temps where the cause.

Once we had an air con problem on a hot summer in our server room.
CPU temps where above 85° every now and than case temps above 60° where also no rarity and the servers powered off on a daily base. A few HD's died but no cpu or other component.

Achim: if you measure IHS temp, you'll have to modify the IHS and install HSF on top sitting with a good flush contact and the probe underneath at the geometric center of the chip within the IHS. So the temps will be higher than taking any side measurements. X2 works differently to K10h since the core DTS can give different temperature feedbacks and the BIOS interprets them differently.

SmartGuardian is +20C wrong pretty easily looking at the various values. The next time you get the Phenom, open HWMonitor as well to checkup the various readings. Plus your CPU temp in EVEREST only showed ~53C actual around -10C with M3A readings and what every other Phenom gets. Every Phenom I've seen so far gets far lower temps than those at similar volts/speeds.
Measure the RD790 temp when you get Phenom, that was giving it a 52C reading. From personal experience I know RD790 is a 10W TDP chip and never reaches even 40C at <30C ambient, so those are near 32C actual temps it was reading as 52C, a +20C offset.

I don't think the temps/speeds killed the CPU IMHO, but I'm not sure if feeding the CPU/RAM high volts and priming it did. What's the max CPU VID and voltage you've ever fed it?

Kinda strange why it doesn't boot. :shrug:

BTW, your sig reads you have a Phenom 9500 running a Phenom 9600 multi. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Achim: if you measure IHS temp, you'll have to modify the IHS and install HSF on top sitting with a good flush contact and the probe underneath at the geometric center of the chip within the IHS. So the temps will be higher than taking any side measurements. X2 works differently to K10h since the core DTS can give different temperature feedbacks and the BIOS interprets them differently.

---

That's why I said minimal. :D If you look at my 100°C screeny you see that smart guardian seems to read from what everest reports as aux and seems to be an externel sensor in or below the socket so the reading should be cpu independant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

SmartGuardian is +20C wrong pretty easily looking at the various values. The next time you get the Phenom, open HWMonitor as well to checkup the various readings.

---

Must use somthing different than speedfan (kills pci functionality on dfi mobo) hwmon will be a good replacement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Plus your CPU temp in EVEREST only showed ~53C actual around -10C with M3A readings and what every other Phenom gets. Every Phenom I've seen so far gets far lower temps than those at similar volts/speeds.

---

That cpu temp on the sapphire mobo is indeed strange. The mobo allows to specify an offset for temp reading. I left it at the default 0. Never checked that offset in the cpu registers on the m3a. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

I don't think the temps/speeds killed the CPU IMHO, but I'm not sure if feeding the CPU/RAM high volts and priming it did.

Kinda strange why it doesn't boot. :shrug:

---

He died as mysterious as he lived. :shakes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

What's the max CPU VID and voltage you've ever fed it?

---

Ever? 1,525V on the M2A-VM in the first week, later never more than 1,475V on the M2A-VM (max stable voltge) and not more than 1,425V (few minutes) on the sapphire.
A few days before I just had verified my oc results on the m2a-vm and could not find any signs of long term degradation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

BTW, your sig reads you have a Phenom 9500 running a Phenom 9600 multi. :D

---

Ups, fixed don't have a 3GHz phenom running.

I'm just wondering on this, but has anyone noticed an effect on their max htt, max nb speed, or max cpu speed from using chilled water or phase on their cpu? I remember reading about macci doing some dice runs, but does that mean I won't have a cold bug? I have a vapochill, I just need to order the am2 mount for it and I can do some testing with it. If no one knows...I guess I can be the guinea pig.

I might... might still throw a Vapochill on it lying around. It hasn't been used since around mid 2006. I've been considering for some time but I did a few basic cold runs as an initial checkup and my last 9500 and 9600BE still did not boot 20MHz more than air at -30C/-20C/-10C/0C/5C/10C/15C (IHS), frustrated me after all the effort, so I haven't bothered again. AM2 mounts here were impossible to find for the VC, I have to order from more than 7000 miles away, wait 4 weeks and the cost was the same as buying a good WC setup so I withheld -> unless someone can show me some very healthy gains.

Water usually gains quite a bit of MHz, especially stability. Most guys can validate and small bench 3.1-2.95GHz with water and get 2.7-2.9G fully stable.

I'd like to see any cold runs by anyone even Sami if they could get 10MHz more than air/water with Phenom. :yepp:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justapost

He died as mysterious as he lived.

---

Hehehe :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justapost

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

What's the max CPU VID and voltage you've ever fed it?

---

Ever? 1,525V on the M2A-VM in the first week, later never more than 1,475V on the M2A-VM (max stable voltge) and not more than 1,425V (few minutes) on the sapphire.
A few days before I just had verified my oc results on the m2a-vm and could not find any signs of long term degradation.

---

Hmmm I don't tend to run plus 1.35V on mine. I'm very weary and will drop the temps to 0-10C ambients before I run above that and throw 3 more plus 100CFM fans around it.

If you could still get the same as you had before on the chip a few days back, then I don't understand how it just blanked out.

Does anyone have the factory version one K9A2 Plat bios? I beleive its version 1.1? Does the factory bios NOT have the TLB fix btw?

I just ordered the AM2 mount for my vapo, should be here by next wednesday.

im still using the 1.1 bios and i think anything after 1.13 has the fix

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Manicdan

im still using the 1.1 bios and i think anything after 1.13 has the fix

---

The 1.1 bios is the factory bios, correct? Anyone have a link to download the 1.1 bios?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by batmang

The 1.1 bios is the factory bios, correct? Anyone have a link to download the 1.1 bios?

---

1.0 is the factory bios, there is still available @ the msi global site ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by madfaze

1.0 is the factory bios, there is still available @ the msi global site ;)

---

I'm dumb lol. Thanks

Sorry for not responding fast KTE. Been busy with school. Im not able to overclock at all the FSB. I used the picture in the post for what the numbers should be in that one menu (i forget, kinda tired lol). I tried my best to work out the perfect voltage and multiplier. I dont know what to do, I crashed on everything. This 113 bios is alot better, becuase I've noticed better stability. But I still end up crashing. Don't know what to do. Are there any bios' that support DDR1066 yet? Good ones, atleast. Thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Hmmm I don't tend to run plus 1.35V on mine. I'm very weary and will drop the temps to 0-10C ambients before I run above that and throw 3 more plus 100CFM fans around it.

---

Lol, with 1,35V I could reach 214x11 on the M2A-VM same as max at stock on the M3A. Everyday oc was 220x11 at 1,4V without extra fans but not in a case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

If you could still get the same as you had before on the chip a few days back, then I don't understand how it just blanked out.

---

Odd isn't it. I mean ok it's a fact that oc can kill the chip but i don't see an obvious cause in this case.

Well, I put my regular 9600 back in a few nights ago. Right now its priming at 11.5x248 @ only 1.3v. And here's a pic of my extreme wPrime times...

http://hwbot.org/signature.img?iid=84927&thumb=false

The NB multi was at 10x, so the actual speed is what wPrime has shown, I took the ss before I got the new version of cpu-z that actually works with my mobo. I really can't wait to get the vapo running now...

Edit: Make that 250x11.5=2875, same volts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by batmang

Does anyone have the factory version one K9A2 Plat bios? I beleive its version 1.1? Does the factory bios NOT have the TLB fix btw?

---

1.0 and 1.1. Everything after P0C has the fix, on the latest ones you can disable the fix but you still lose perf. when disabled.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by d412k5t412

Sorry for not responding fast KTE. Been busy with school. Im not able to overclock at all the FSB. I used the picture in the post for what the numbers should be in that one menu (i forget, kinda tired lol). I tried my best to work out the perfect voltage and multiplier. I dont know what to do, I crashed on everything. This 113 bios is alot better, becuase I've noticed better stability. But I still end up crashing. Don't know what to do. Are there any bios' that support DDR1066 yet? Good ones, atleast. Thanks!

---

Yeah, the latest ones run all stock DRAM MHz (P0F, P0H) but they don't allow most oc options (AM2+ P-States). I'm waiting for a good BIOS now with friendlier working options and

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justapost

Lol, with 1,35V I could reach 214x11 on the M2A-VM same as max at stock on the M3A. Everyday oc was 220x11 at 1,4V without extra fans but not in a case.

Odd isn't it. I mean ok it's a fact that oc can kill the chip but i don't see an obvious cause in this case.

---

I'm still thinking this through but best would be if I had the chip to experiment with. :D

Oldguy932: The pic/bench you posted is at 266x11.5 3.059GHz and your NB is at 266x9 2.394GHz like I've said before which most of us already know about by now. No 10x NB multi on Phenom 9500/9600 only on 9600BE. If air gets you 3.059G then 3.5G should be in reach on vapo, maybe even 4G. Await the results.

oldguy.. test your nbspeed with cpuz latency test. see if you gain anything with that higher nbspeed multiplier. ok!

I tried to explain this before. On my board, the asus, I can use any NB multi from 4x to 18x. But if you do use one above 9x, for example here's the comparison...

9x
9*200=1800mhz nb, 11.5*200=2300mhz cpu

10x
10*180=1800mhz nb, 11.5*180=2070mhz cpu

This is why 2753 shows up in the bench.

10x nb multi
9*266=2394 --> 2394/10=239.4 --> 239.4*11.5=2753.1mhz cpu

To get to use the higher nb speeds, you have to actually oc to get back to stock speeds. The nb is also locked to a maximum of 9*htt on the regular phenoms. I would get back to testing the latencies, but I'm finding the max actual overclock on this cpu, and 266 is my max bootable with 9x, 10x, and 11x nb multis, 260 is rock stable with 10x and 11x, I haven't gotten there with the regular nb multis cause I'm about to start testing 252x11.5. But if you guys are right and I was running it at 3.06ghz, then dang I got a good chip...

why dont you go straight to 18x nb multi. see if it post?

I never got anything over 13x to boot reliably. 14x worked a few times, but I never got it to even boot to windows. 15x worked once but then it restarted and never booted there again. The perfect phenom would have an unlocked cpu multi but still have the nb speed locked where it is on the regular chips. The records for amd cpu's would be broken so fast it wouldn't be funny. Here's why...

NB 10x, HTT 266, CPU 11.5x
CPU Speed=2753mhz
Super-Pi 1m was 25.472 (didn't take ss cause the next spot on hwbot is 24.8)

NB 11x, HTT 266, CPU 11.5x
CPU Speed=2502mhz
Super-Pi 1m was 25.521

The times are within .05 of each other, but the cpu speed of the faster one has 250mhz over the slower. If the one with the higher NB multi was able to run at the faster speed, it would most surely win. This is where the unlocked cpu multi would come in handy. First you find the max cpu overclock, then you try and keep getting that speed with the higher nb multis. I know its been proven that a higher nb speed will beat a cpu same speed with a slower one, but what I'm doing just makes the speed difference alot more noticable.

Yep, we used to call that scenario "downclock" before.

Leave you NB at 9x and you'll get 3.059GHz with the same volts. ;)
Your NB will still be highest I've seen yet on 9500/9600 incl. your chip: 3.059G and 2.394G

If you want to check NB speed, just run Sandra memory bandwidth and EVEREST cache/memory bandwidth so we can verify. As I've said, I've been through this 3 months back. Sami and I both know the approx. mem/cache scores possible through the range of frequencies. I know up to 2.596G NB and 2.83G CPU 1252 4-5-5-15 RAM and Sami probably knows up to at least 3.1G CPU and 2.6G NB. I don't think NB goes much higher than 2.6G on Phenoms on air/wc, I know HT won't.

You can do some RightMark Multi-Threaded Memory Tests and they'll show NB speeds clearly. Big difference between one multi change.

As for 1M: 3.059GHz can easily get 23s and below. Your 1M efficiency is quite bad because you have low NB/RAM speeds but high CPU speed.

HT ref. doesn't drop below 200MHz on 9500/9600, only multi can drop.

Here's what I remember getting last time I was running benches

Everest Cache and Memory

L1: 1.0ns
L2: 3.0ns
L3: 6.5ns
Memory: 57.4ns

I need to get some better memory, but thats not as important to me right now. The memory was running 4-4-3-5-2T @ 707mhz. It does up to around 860 at those timings.

if you cant boot with 18x nb speed that mean nbspeed is actually working on your board. actual with non-be phenom max nb multi is 9x. the nb speed multi will still remain at 9x eventhough you set it higher. that mean it will bootup even we set it to 18x. but yours wont. got it?

And I probably won't be able to hit 3.5ghz, my htt maxed at 300 when I tested it on this cpu the other day. That would only give me 3450 at most, which would be amazing for a phenom, but even just 2.9 at 1.3v is giving me 50-51C load with small fft's, meaning around 56-57C true max.

Well, I guess I'm one of the few that can play with the nb multi. That and anyone else with the 0801 bios for my board.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tictac

if you cant boot with 18x nb speed that mean nbspeed is actually working on your board. actual with non-be phenom max nb multi is 9x. the nb speed multi will still remain at 9x eventhough you set it higher. that mean it will bootup even we set it to 18x. but yours wont. got it?

---

This is Phenom 9500 (max nb multi = 9x) with 5.6GHz NB speed... it boot up ... Biostar TA770.... i guess it is not working.. because if it work it wont post at 5.6GHz NB speed....

http://www.lejabeach.com/pics4/TF770A2+020908-2.JPG

but benchmark show improvement over slower NB speed.... i am still wondering why... :confused:

What's it showing for your cpu speed though?

Edit: I just started trying 267*11.5. @1.3v it failed prime on the first core in 6 seconds, @1.325v it failed in 55s, and @ 1.35v the last two cores don't even start. I just realized I had processor to nb voltage left on auto, set it to 1.3 and I'm gonna see what happens next. Oh and if this setting doesn't work I'll at least get a screenie of 3ghz stable with 1.3v.