when will the competition end?
Printable View
when will the competition end?
September 1st, 2006.
Also, what if someone attempts a 3 stage autocascade...
No we will see overcharged units that don't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeXE
It's not like a normal system where you can just say "add more second stage gas" and get better capacity for a trade in idle temps. You add more refrigerant and then it doesn't condense right and your system's borked.
Good Idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Mole
So maybe:
"CO2 Division" will do tests on 150W dummy load.
"High Pressure Division" will do tests on 180W or 200W dummy load.
and maybe we will have winners in both divisions, one in "CO2 D" and one in "High P D".
Yeah, you`re in High Pressure Division ;)
Yea, You have right, I didn`t thinked about it, but for competition you can tune it for 200W dummy load (maybe it will handle it :p), and after you can retune it for less heat load if you want (for cpu load)Quote:
Originally Posted by eshbach
With loads of those size we won't see many functioning autocascades I fear. I think we need to think about this more.
Also, people in the non-co2 division, if they are using a special gas or blend should it be required of them to share the information? Maybe the High D division shouldnt have to share there gases at all.
EDIT: Like esbach said, its not about tuning, we dont have the displacement for a 200watt low stage!
Uhm, really I don`t know what dummy load we will use...:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
150W will be fine, but I don`t know that for both divisions, or one will use 150W, and another one will have bigger dummy load or both will have that same (150W).
I honestly don't mind either....200w is a high bar to set, and we will have to work hard to get our systems to hold temps at that kind of load...but as long as competition is even I'll do what you guys tell me :) Maybe have us test at several intervals of load. I.E. report load temps at 150w, 180w, 200w. and give points to the winners of each interval and then take the average. That way people with high load will get credit to help overal decision, and people that don't want to tune for high load will still be able to compete fairly. just an idea.
Brandon J
The concern with high heat loads is, a 10cc compressor just for a single stage and charged for capacity, may yield the same results as our autocascades since we wont have 10cc of displacement just for low stage.
EDIT: I drew this to show. A big singlestage or a SLHX semi-cascade will yield the best results with the heat load your implying. This design is also incredibly less work, Since you can basically build a strong single stage and then add low stage refrigerant from there.
add more first stage gas and your system is oke again :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by eshbach
Unknown, won't work that way. Your forgetting that just adding more refrigerant means higher discharge pressures and higher static pressures. Then its simply a displacement competition.
Well, I think that I can get one autocascade working until september...
Will try with:
1/2 Aspera for r12 with POE oil
captube/cpev
r410a or r404a or r22 with CO2 and maybe some r290 or r600 for carrying...
Can someone explain the high pressure cut-off piece and way to use it?
Regards!
yes, that will work to a point, but what's going to happen is you're going to get less and less suction on the low side due to the high volume of gas on one compressor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_road
less low side suction will mean worse evap temperatures, and it will also mean worse heat exchanger temperatures since it is the same compressor.
worse heat exchanger temperatures means the second stage gas won't condense as well, which will mean less capacity.
so you see, it is a vicious cycle.
the question is, can you stay out of that cycle and still handle 200W with an autocascade.
That's going to depend on the compressor you use. Maybe a 1 HP+ compressor can do that. The biggest compressor I have used on a system is 1/2HP, and I really don't think it could handle it.
yeah I understand that, and that why I suggested what I did. this way, if you want to tune your for a smaller load then you can do that and not get penallized for it because most likely all else being equal, a systemed tuned for a lower heatload will get colder and work better at a low heat load than one tuned for a higher heat load. and vice versa.
It may also be a good idea for us to set up a kind of point system to keep things fair aswell. have separate categories like this:
Category Possible Points
Performance 30
quality of craftmanship 20
visual apperance 10
total points possible: 50
Performance: automatic 10 points for a functional unit reguardless of temps, 20 points for performance at designated heat load (once we all decide that)
Deductions: any compressor over 1/2hp gets 1 point deduction per 1/4 hp increase (this way it keeps competition fair for those that only have a 1/2, compared to those that have a 1+hp and also for open division). Gasses, anything other than CO2 gets 1 point deduction. (to keep competition fair for those that cannot get access to R23 or R1150. also maybe a 2 point deduction for R1150) Again you would obviously beat someone running co2 if you got R1150 to condense, so you would gain points there, but get some deductions because a working r1150 unit would obviously beat a co2 unit.
Quality of Craftmanship: Leak free for 24 hrs = 5 points (maybe someone could define leak free, and at what psi?), Brazing quality = 5 points, Specially made items (I.E. phase separator, oil sep. etc) = 5 points, overall build design and layout = 5 points.
deductions: ?? any ideas ??
visual apperance: 5 points for build apperance (apperance of brazes, cable wrap would get bonuses, painting old compressors etc. this would only include the items essential for hte build, not including things like cases etc.) 5points for innovations or graphics designs/ logos (being creative!)
deductions: ?? any ideas ??
Thats just the ideas I had ATM. Again just an idea, My goal with something like this is to try to get the competition to mainly decide who here can build the best functional autocascade and try to weed out biases to one type of gas or bigger compressors. also things like quality and apperance I threw in, albeit at a lower point value, because those things apply aswell, no one wants a shoody looking cooler, and people like the quality to LOOK and WORK as good a perfessional stuff as possible, grated we are making this stuff ourselves, but this will give people that maybe have really good quality build skills or brazing skills a boost, even if their unit may not perform quite as well.
If something like this isn't what you guys want, then thats fine I was just trying to get ideas out there so we can all come to a consensus about the rules and get to building!
Brandon J
EDIT: also, if this is something we wanna look at, these point values are just ideas so please give feed back on this.
How do I join?
PM LukeXE?
Hehe, just write your specs, and I will add you to members list :)Quote:
Originally Posted by johann
@Fhqwhgads6680 --> GREAT POST !
3/4HP Danfoss
Gas 402/R23
Tev/Captube
You`re in, welcome in Xtreme 2006 Autocascade Competition ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by johann
I see we have great members :woot: :woot:
And I have a request to:
aussie_guy00000
Carlz0r
Fatty
Hatemi
Kayl
eshbach
gkiing
Runmc
please guys write here yours auto-c specs and I will update first post.
freaks ;) Good luck teams :)
What is the grand prize?
There is no prize ;)
won't work i think, the suction ain't cold enough to condens the gas good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
just a tought
the prize is being acknowledged as the winner of the 2006 XS autocascade competition...and thats worth a LOT eh! :)
and a title of "builder of the best autocascade in the whoolleeeee world" ;)
R290/CO2, 1/2HP rechi rotary, captube/cpev or cpev/cpev (undecided)
? you have never build an autocascade do you :D :nono:Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
@eschbach: yes with a 1/2 hp compressor it isn't a problem. compressors capacity gets pretty big just above the 1 bara , bigger the suction pressure the more heat removal it is capable of.