Looks like ATI just Released a 1000 Pound Guerilla to Fight the 7900 GT

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03-15-2006, 02:33 PM
tajoh111

Look at the topic heading those

Althought this is xtremesystems, ATI releasing the 1800 xt 256 to fight the 7900 gt, is an action by ATI not to fight for the hardcore enthusiest(like the original 7800 gtx 512), it for the mainstream audience that want great performance for the money and would probaly leave the card stock.

If we are going to get into LN2 and Dry Ice, I think we are going for bragging rights at all cost and we are going to go for a gtx or a 1900 xtx or xt. Sure it might be fun to have a ln2 midlevel card, but your not going to get records besides maybe in that category of card.

I think something bad needs to happen to ati so they change their ways. Ati
03-15-2006, 06:21 PM
***Deimos***

1. nVidia GF7 and X18/X19 are both very good very fast cards for sure. No doubt you can get top 3DMarks with X1900XTX and good w/c.
2. But, when looking at mainstream you should remember that most reviews show only "reference" 7900GT, whereas for the same price, most people are buying 10-15% pre-overclocked.
3. Although some reviews include X1800XT and it performs very closely to 7800GTX and 7900GT, some situation at high resolutions like FEAR, COD2, and BF2, might have lead mostly due to 512MB. The 512MB X1800XT costs a lot more than the 256MB X1800XT being now introduced at $300.
4. My favorite part about 7900GT is the "fun" factor that unlean mentioned. The core is identical to 7900GTX, so you get to play around with different voltage, cooling and timings, to get it to GTX level (or higher!). No matter how or how high you overclock X1800XT, you will NEVER turn it into a X1900... they are simply different chips.

any news on R570? Heard supposed to be as good as X1800XT.
03-15-2006, 09:16 PM
Shadowmage

Quote:

Originally Posted by DilTech

Eh, if a company offers a warranty on overclocking, then you should think about the warranty.

Powercolor offers a lifetime warrenty, just like EVGA.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131005
03-15-2006, 11:19 PM
chew*

Quote:

No matter how or how high you overclock X1800XT, you will NEVER turn it into a X1900... they are simply different chips.

I beg to differ. with the x1800xt's superior clock speeds the x1900xtx is no match for it in 3d 01...

And i would use whatever i have in my arsenal for cooling within the limits of it being a 24/7 setup so no DI. that should be the way we do it.
03-16-2006, 07:16 AM
Hicks

Quote:

Originally Posted by DilTech

Eh, if a company offers a warranty on overclocking, then you should think about the warranty.

Why are are you so fussed about the Warranty?

This is XS. Hell most people who will happen to kill there card from overclocking, will of done volts mods, and using soemthing other than stock cooling. You can't send a card back with physical volt mods now can you.
03-16-2006, 11:55 AM
Mowgli

lol..this is indeed XS, BUT not everybody are the same, i am sure there is a minority who canot afford to overlook the warranty...so dats why its fussed about. like me, i love computer HW, but i canot afford to get them killed n ahve to buy a new one...imagine, some of us only get a change of HW only every 6 months to 1 yr....
03-16-2006, 12:01 PM
DilTech

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hicks

Why are are you so fussed about the Warranty?

This is XS. Hell most people who will happen to kill there card from overclocking, will of done volts mods, and using soemthing other than stock cooling. You can't send a card back with physical volt mods now can you.

I don't volt mod, you can put back on a stock cooler with ease, I don't do extreme cooling...

I care very much about a warranty actually.

Also shadow, EVGA have been known to send advanced exchanges, powercolor doesn't cover overclocking and bios flashes either. Only normal usage.. This is a biggggg difference.

EVGA covers literally EVERYTHING except physical damage!
03-16-2006, 12:29 PM
zakelwe

It's a fine dividing line between what goes on the 3dmark forum and what goes on the video forum but when you get to talking about warranties I think this thread needs to be moved.

With 3d benching nothing is guarranteed :D That's why it is so much fun.

Regards

Andy
03-16-2006, 01:29 PM
Winterwind

Quote:

Originally Posted by tajoh111

Ati has really screwed up last year not only with releasing in low quantities, but there policies. Not only did they give up the 3 year warrenty to 1 year, they also screwed over anyone that bought a 1800xt, by releasing a much better product 3 months later with no incentive to upgrade( a la EVGA).

well, that sure sounds like bs to me:slapass:
think about dudes who bought 512mb 7800GTX-s for like 1000 dollars per card and now think that u can buy 7900GTX for 499 dollars..
so did ATi really screw something up or did nVIDIA?
think before u say
03-16-2006, 01:42 PM
DilTech

If that $1000 card was an evga, they now walk off with TWO 7900GTX's(step-up)... So who got screwed?
03-16-2006, 01:44 PM
Shadowmage

Quote:

Originally Posted by DilTech

I don't volt mod, you can put back on a stock cooler with ease, I don't do extreme cooling...

I care very much about a warranty actually.

Also shadow, EVGA have been known to send advanced exchanges, powercolor doesn't cover overclocking and bios flashes either. Only normal usage.. This is a biggggg difference.

EVGA covers literally EVERYTHING except physical damage!

Um, why is this a big deal? How will they detect overclocking and bios flashes if you just flash it back beforehand?
03-16-2006, 01:44 PM
DilTech

If you killed the card, it's impossible to flash back the bios, now isn't it? It isn't, however, impossible for them to check that bios chip(PNY/MSI is famous for this).

Generally, people don't RMA a card that isn't broken.
03-16-2006, 01:47 PM
Shadowmage

With ATI cards having voltage controllable via software, why is this an issue? Why is BIOS flashing needed?

I can see why it's an issue with NVIDIA cards, as you need to flash the BIOS to softmod voltage, as well as delta clocks.
03-17-2006, 12:18 PM
***Deimos***

Quote:

Originally Posted by chew*

I beg to differ. with the x1800xt's superior clock speeds the x1900xtx is no match for it in 3d 01...

And i would use whatever i have in my arsenal for cooling within the limits of it being a 24/7 setup so no DI. that should be the way we do it.

http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/video/.../index.php?p=3
x1800xt = 625
x1900xtx = 650
looks quite different from here

Quote:

Generally, people don't RMA a card that isn't broken.

you'd be surprised. Some folks get so hyper excited about getting a 6200, when they get it home they rip open the box, strip the case, and try to cram it into the mobo, only to find out PCIE cards dont fit in AGP.
Not to mention the hundreds of forum accounts of folks RMA card because it beeps (forgot to plug in molex), very poor performance (switching from ATI/nVidia not cleaning drivers, chipset drivers), instability issues (using 300W PSU supplied with case for 6800u).

The stupidity I've read about and seen first hand, boggles the mind.
03-17-2006, 12:49 PM
DilTech

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmage

With ATI cards having voltage controllable via software, why is this an issue? Why is BIOS flashing needed?

I can see why it's an issue with NVIDIA cards, as you need to flash the BIOS to softmod voltage, as well as delta clocks.

X1800XT to X1800XTPE anybody? Which, might I add, is a very popular thing for x1800xt owners on this site.
03-17-2006, 01:31 PM
sabrewolf732

You guys have turned this into EVGA 7900gt vs x1800xt :rolleyes: Which is obviously not the case. It is 7900gt vs x1800xt obviously. You guys are singling out manufacturers which you can't really do when comparing gpus from a who's the better company (NV vs. ATi)
03-17-2006, 04:55 PM
tajoh111

To winter knight. The whole purpose of the 7800 gtx 512 was to use it as a marketing device to crap on ATI release. It wasn't very honorable thing to do, but when they released the gtx 512 it was done on a very small scale and purely for the enthusiast that wanted bleeding edge hardware in which it was. Not only was the card the fastest on the market, it was rare as hell which is why it commanded such a high price, 1000 was not the price those and you just over inflated that number. This card was for people who wanted the best score regardless of whether or not it was going to be obsolete soon or replaced. This will be the same with the quad sli board which will also be rare as hell. What I said about ATI's warrenty still stands they abandoned there customer when they reduced there warrenty. Company should try to improve there level of service not decrease it over time

Plus the release period between the gtx 512 and the 7900 gtx was significantly longer than that between the 1800 xt and the 7900 gtx.

Also we should use the best card from each so I agree on using the EVGA, mainly because it is the same price as a the non overclocked one, and it is typically in stock which makes buying a non over clocked one from the likes of MSI useless. Unless you want to rip yourself off because of some principles that dont make sense.

Also warrenty doesn't matter for alot of people on this site.
Did ati compensate in anyways from decreasing there warrenty. Not really, did the price of there video cards go down which is a benefit all of us can enjoy. No they did not, they did it to make more money for themselves by cutting costs in warrenty and service.

Not only that, their company of origin, Canada, gets charged more for their cards than the united states which is pretty bad for a company.
03-17-2006, 04:59 PM
chew*

On water alone the x1800xt does 823/981 which we all know clock speed versus technology wins in 01. You are hard pressed to do that with a x1900xtx also note its an xtx........I think the reason is due to the fact that higher clocks are achievable with less pixels shader pipelines.
03-17-2006, 05:04 PM
Shadowmage

Quote:

Originally Posted by DilTech

X1800XT to X1800XTPE anybody? Which, might I add, is a very popular thing for x1800xt owners on this site.

Can't do that with the X1800 256MB, which is the card under discussion.
03-17-2006, 05:08 PM
Pronstar

Quote:

Originally Posted by DilTech

X1800XT to X1800XTPE anybody? Which, might I add, is a very popular thing for x1800xt owners on this site.

Hehe, well said ;)
03-17-2006, 05:09 PM
alexio

Quote:

Originally Posted by DilTech

If you killed the card, it's impossible to flash back the bios, now isn't it?

No it isn't. In most cases you could flash blind or with arties, and in the cases the card is so borked the pc doesn't boot with it, you can use a PCI card.

The change that a card is so borked that the EEPROM is not accesible anymore is very, very small. The cases that this happens it's often also hard for the manufactorer to get any data from the EEPROM.
03-17-2006, 05:16 PM
***Deimos***

this thread has decayed into typical www.rage3d.com bickering. -_-

Where is the "xtremesystems" life and soul? Why hasn't anybody posted pics of their vmod to stop this insanity?
03-17-2006, 05:17 PM
DilTech

They can remove the chip, ask anyone who's ever tried to rma a PNY card with a flashed bios what they tell them....

If the card is physically dead, you cannot flash it.
03-17-2006, 05:19 PM
Shadowmage

Quote:

Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

this thread has decayed into typical www.rage3d.com bickering. -_-

Where is the "xtremesystems" life and soul? Why hasn't anybody posted pics of their vmod to stop this insanity?

So true... you should say "typical EOCF bickering" though... :slapass:
03-17-2006, 05:21 PM
alexio

Quote:

Originally Posted by DilTech

If the card is physically dead, you cannot flash it.

In a few cases you can i think. Just use masking tape to mask out all unnessecary pins unless the EEPROM ones and boot witha PCI card.

And in theory you should also be able to hotflash the card if the above doesn't work :D

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