What do I need to get Pent D to 4Ghz...

Lithan a few points in response:

I said that for a given system, say the 9100 which uses anything from the p4 630 to the EE dual core P4 the HSF is the same, not that all dell systems use the same HSF. So the point still stands that the HSF on the 630 was designed to be able to cool the higher end processors. My 4 ghz OC on my Dell, wasn't 100% but it was able to run two instances of prime for 90 minutes and generated 1 error, and yes I was monitoring throttling it never throttled and actually the speed varied from about 3.98 ghz to 4.13 ghz while running prime. The fact I got 1 error, probably had little to do with the cooling - the HS was not that warm, and probably more to do with the inabiliity to adjust Vcore. Lastly there is a direct duct on the HSF that pushes plenty of air - the after markeet HSFs we buy that can't have a duct/ shroud or whatever built specifically for the box they are in do not move air nearly as well as the ducts built into OEM boxes, even my friends old slot A athlon was cooled way better w/ HP cooling then the tripple fan HS that we replaced it witth so we could use a GFD. And no the HSF in the Dell is not something your going to pick up for $20, just like your comments about the Pentium 4 D's, you are making wild assumptions about something you have little experience with.

Oh I also decided to run two instances yesterday, with ambient around 85 F I primed for 1 hr, stopped it after that there were no errors, and HSF still felt relatively cool, ie no where near the temp HS would get to with athlon 1 to 1.4 ghz, and the early palomino cores.

I owned the heatsink you have for two years. It's nowhere near the quality of a xp-90 and you can get an xp-90 for $25. Also the "triple-fan" coolers sold for slot 1/a processors were about the worst heatsinks ever. That's why they sold for $5 on ebay.

Also, if I recall, @ stock a 1.4 Palimino put out about 70-80W Theoretical max. A p4 6XX @ 4ghz puts out ~130W theoretical max @ stock vcore.Speaking of assumptions.

And that motherboard either has serious problems or else your monitoring software does. Cpu speed shouldn't fluctuate 150mhz while a system is running. It shouldn't even fluctuate more than 1-2 times the CPU's multiplier when rebooted.

It was three years ago when I checked, but I believe the 90mm they hooked up for me was their "high-flow" model and maxxed at 42cfm. It was exhausting and ducted about 4" with a 90* bend, unsealed. I marvelled at the efficiency of it's design.


Also, I'm making statements based on the results of dozens of people I know with these processors. You and others are making claims based on nothing other than what you wish these chips could do. Hell, there'd still be people in here saying they could do 4ghz stable @ stock cooling and vcore if you had your way.

What about PSUs, will my trusty Antec Truepower 550W be able to feed with enouph power a system with a Pentium D@4GHz and an ATi X850XT

You won't have stability issues, but a 8XX overclocked to ~4ghz with a small voltage bump and a x850 xt plus a gig of ram and your typical parts will probably eat 375-425watts of DC power @ full load. Most people recommend keeping your PSU's A/C usage under the rated wattage. Depending on how well that matches up with your PSU's line values, it could limit overclocking. It'd be like running a duallie on a PSU that wasn't designed for it essentially. Probably not noticably hindering, but you'll always worry.

I'm sorry that this post doesn't really concern this thread but i just got a few questions. I'm running now 4.1GHz and vcore is at 1.45v from bios and chipset is voltage is 1.6v and memory 1.9v, and now to the problem-> I can't get past these clocks and i don't now how much i should rise my voltages or are they already too high? For cooling I'm using Asetek Antarctica waterblock with the cpu and the nb is also watercooled so temps arent't the problem i think. If somebody could help me i would be greatful :toast:

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Originally Posted by Nazu

I'm sorry that this post doesn't really concern this thread but i just got a few questions. I'm running now 4.1GHz and vcore is at 1.45v from bios and chipset is voltage is 1.6v and memory 1.9v, and now to the problem-> I can't get past these clocks and i don't now how much i should rise my voltages or are they already too high? For cooling I'm using Asetek Antarctica waterblock with the cpu and the nb is also watercooled so temps arent't the problem i think. If somebody could help me i would be greatful :toast:

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Voltage doesnt really do much for p4's past a certain point. All the ones I've own max out within .15 of stock vcore (on air/water) and after that get voltage increases just add heat without giving any more mhz. 4.1ghz is probably close to your rigs limit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nazu

I'm sorry that this post doesn't really concern this thread but i just got a few questions. I'm running now 4.1GHz and vcore is at 1.45v from bios and chipset is voltage is 1.6v and memory 1.9v, and now to the problem-> I can't get past these clocks and i don't now how much i should rise my voltages or are they already too high? For cooling I'm using Asetek Antarctica waterblock with the cpu and the nb is also watercooled so temps arent't the problem i think. If somebody could help me i would be greatful :toast:

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You should not have to raise any voltage other than core for FSB lower than 300Mhz. 1.45 is about right for the speed. Try to use a memory divider and drop the memory speed back to see if that is holding you back.

Try more memory voltage, should be safe to test 2.2v

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Originally Posted by Lithan

Voltage doesnt really do much for p4's past a certain point. All the ones I've own max out within .15 of stock vcore (on air/water) and after that get voltage increases just add heat without giving any more mhz. 4.1ghz is probably close to your rigs limit.

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I think it´s not the same on all P4 CPU´s. P4 with Prescott core often max out within voltage you said. Most time they will do a high fsb with stock vcore. But if you own a Mobile P4 like 3.06 HT for example you can see that the fsb is scaling linear to the vcore. Starting from 1.2V up to 1.65V f.e. you can see every 0.1V that you can reach a higher FSB.

I tried this on 4 Mobile CPU´s from 1.8 up to 3.06 HT, on every the same. And each one with Northwood Core.

Sorry been screwing with the Dothan past few days.

The builds will continue this week.
First up,

820 Retail
P5WD2-P
Antec superlanboy
250GB x2 RAID 0
450W or 500W PSU
285x14 is my minimum target speed.

Target, 4Ghz on air for dual threads of Pi 32M and prime for 24 hours??

This server is to be a transaction server for holding temporary data. It will live with a light load and back up as file holding area as well. Estimated cost of $1000 wo/ monitor

Nazu, try backing off in voltage and even cutting back to stock voltage to see how far you get.

Lithan is correct about adding more votlage increasing your temps.

Confirm you can do 266FSB on stock votlage first. This should be done with everything at stock votlage. There is no need to raise anything at this point and that includes the 840EE can do this speed with stock voltage (with the 14x mutliple).

Im not sure what your ram is made from, does it run @ 3-2-2-4? Elpida stuff doesnt like to run 3-2-2-4

I'd rather see two Primes running. Spi32 isn't a concern for me. 2xprime has become the standard for HT cpu stability testing, so it should cross over nicely into dual core testing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FUGGER

Sorry been screwing with the Dothan past few days.

The builds will continue this week.
First up,

820 Retail
P5WD2-P
Antec superlanboy
250GB x2 RAID 0
450W or 500W PSU
285x14 is my minimum target speed.

Target, 4Ghz on air for dual threads of Pi 32M and prime for 24 hours??

This server is to be a transaction server for holding temporary data. It will live with a light load and back up as file holding area as well. Estimated cost of $1000 wo/ monitor

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It's gonna be running stock for that I assume, not 4ghz. ;)

Also, isn't lanboy ATX?

ATX case with 120mm in front and in back. I am not sure if it will live at stock speed once its gone.

You sell to businesses that overclock? Sheesh man, things are crazy out west. I've actually had buddies tell me that even though I build their machines, they cant recommend me to build machines for their companies simply because I overclock my own machines.

Anyhow, yeah lanboys have pretty decent airflow for a stock design. I personally never run in a case that hasn't seen a dremel because there are no stock cases that have efficient airflow (they either have too many fans in poor places/sizes or no fans at all). Really nothing beats a 172mm filtered front intake with a duct directing it over key components and a simple vent exhaust in the back (plus PSU's exhaust naturally). A year or so back when I still had time to LAN, I almost bought a lanboy (the origional), but cost (~$100+ was prohibitive, when I could have gotten a $30 case and spent $20 on mods to make an even better case).

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Originally Posted by Lithan

I owned the heatsink you have for two years. It's nowhere near the quality of a xp-90 and you can get an xp-90 for $25. Also the "triple-fan" coolers sold for slot 1/a processors were about the worst heatsinks ever. That's why they sold for $5 on ebay.

Also, if I recall, @ stock a 1.4 Palimino put out about 70-80W Theoretical max. A p4 6XX @ 4ghz puts out ~130W theoretical max @ stock vcore.Speaking of assumptions.

And that motherboard either has serious problems or else your monitoring software does. Cpu speed shouldn't fluctuate 150mhz while a system is running. It shouldn't even fluctuate more than 1-2 times the CPU's multiplier when rebooted.

It was three years ago when I checked, but I believe the 90mm they hooked up for me was their "high-flow" model and maxxed at 42cfm. It was exhausting and ducted about 4" with a 90* bend, unsealed. I marvelled at the efficiency of it's design.


Also, I'm making statements based on the results of dozens of people I know with these processors. You and others are making claims based on nothing other than what you wish these chips could do. Hell, there'd still be people in here saying they could do 4ghz stable @ stock cooling and vcore if you had your way.

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Sorry dewd, there's folks at overclockers.com, here and many other places complaining because they only hit 4GHz and not 4.1 or 4.26 or etc.. Why do you feel it is like your God sworn duty to defend AMD everytime anyone posts on the Intel side of the forum? I'm sure if I post the same *stuff on the AMD side of the forum, saaya or would sure as scheisse ban me quicker than the message could be posted. ;)

Example. You were given links to folks' overclocking results, where yours to back up your claims? You continue to talk of $200 motherboards when I've posted to you before that there are i945s for less than $130, too lazy to go to Price Scan or Watch?

Donnie27

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

Sorry dewd, there's folks at overclockers.com, here and many other places complaining because they only hit 4GHz and not 4.1 or 4.26 or etc.. Why do you feel it is like your God sworn duty to defend AMD everytime anyone posts on the Intel side of the forum? I'm sure if I post the same *stuff on the AMD side of the forum, saaya or would sure as scheisse ban me quicker than the message could be posted. ;)

Example. You were given links to folks' overclocking results, where yours to back up your claims? You continue to talk of $200 motherboards when I've posted to you before that there are i945s for less than $130, too lazy to go to Price Scan or Watch?

Donnie27

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this should explain it all.... for any p4 owner....

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5852/power1nt.gif

Why anyone would build a new P4 at this point in time is beyond me. A dothan system is a much better choice, and probably has a better lifespan than a P4. :stick: Letalone socket 939's lifespan...

btw, welcome to xs donnie. :p:

He's posting the way he is- because right now a p4 doesn't make much sense, unless your insane. :fact: But then again, everything does then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dippyskoodlez

this should explain it all.... for any p4 owner....

Why anyone would build a new P4 at this point in time is beyond me. A dothan system is a much better choice, and probably has a better lifespan than a P4. Letalone socket 939's lifespan...
He's posting the way he is- because right now a p4 doesn't make much sense, unless your insane. But then again, everything does then.

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Lifespan on 939's, that's why I'll never bother in getting one. I mean NEVER:
TOASTED CPU JUST WATCHING DVD

Pentium 4s make more sense....reliable, stable and compatible, can handle everything that the "others" can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

Sorry dewd, there's folks at overclockers.com, here and many other places complaining because they only hit 4GHz and not 4.1 or 4.26 or etc.. Why do you feel it is like your God sworn duty to defend AMD everytime anyone posts on the Intel side of the forum? I'm sure if I post the same *stuff on the AMD side of the forum, saaya or would sure as scheisse ban me quicker than the message could be posted. ;)

Example. You were given links to folks' overclocking results, where yours to back up your claims? You continue to talk of $200 motherboards when I've posted to you before that there are i945s for less than $130, too lazy to go to Price Scan or Watch?

Donnie27

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Where are the SS? You say there's multiple people stable at 4ghz on air? Show us.

Edit:

Searched OCforums. In threads that have been posted in during the month of july (should include pretty much all 8XX results) in the Intel section, there is a 3.5, a 3.7 and a 3.8. Also I'd LOVE to see you show me a thread here where someone complained about only hitting 4ghz on air with a dual core. You know, making stuff up really doesn't do your arguement any good.

Yeah, and I can buy a $20 socket A board or a $35 socket 478 board. Want to take a guess why no one buys those boards? And where did I say $200 motherboards? I believe I said $100 more than 939 boards. You can buy a cheap 939 board new or a good one used for 50-60$

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dippyskoodlez

this should explain it all.... for any p4 owner....

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5852/power1nt.gif

Why anyone would build a new P4 at this point in time is beyond me. A dothan system is a much better choice, and probably has a better lifespan than a P4. :stick: Letalone socket 939's lifespan...

btw, welcome to xs donnie. :p:

He's posting the way he is- because right now a p4 doesn't make much sense, unless your insane. :fact: But then again, everything does then.

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What do you mean by Welcome? Not AMD trolling the Intel side of the forum is beyond you as well uh? :nono: If you don't like Intel (anything Intel makes)and yes from ExtremeTech I'm 100% sure you don't, then why come thread crap on this side of the forum? I ask you again, show us your Intel systems that you've gain so much skillz from?

Please note the BIASed move dippy did by leaving out the AMD processors that also run hotter than the Dothan, sheesh! But then many AMD biased folks find reasons not to buy Dothans either. Even Lithan only hates the P4.

Just a reminder.
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_cont...d=pm915&page=5

Admitting anything negative about AMD is still harder than having a tooth pulled with no painkiller for you uh?

Meanwhile, I'll wait for the August Price cuts and build an AMD Gaming rig then.

Donnie27

Do I hate the p4? Hmm. I've only owned about a dozen p4 rigs versus about two dozen A64 rigs. No, I still say no. I just don't delude myself. And since you do that, your brain can't rationalize it when the facts are presented to you so in order to protect itself, it decides that the people who correct your fantasies are lying out of hate of the platform or because they are fanboys.


Venice + nf3 Vrs Dothan + ct479 + 865 A/c draw converted to dc usage. Both at 2500/1.4v (10x250, 12x209). All other voltages/timings/etc @ boards defaults.

Idle = <10watts difference.
Load <25watts difference.


Your link is hardly accurate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lithan

Where are the SS? You say there's multiple people stable at 4ghz on air? Show us.

Edit:

Searched OCforums. In threads that have been posted in during the month of july (should include pretty much all 8XX results) in the Intel section, there is a 3.5, a 3.7 and a 3.8. Also I'd LOVE to see you show me a thread here where someone complained about only hitting 4ghz on air with a dual core. You know, making stuff up really doesn't do your arguement any good.

Yeah, and I can buy a $20 socket A board or a $35 socket 478 board. Want to take a guess why no one buys those boards? And where did I say $200 motherboards? I believe I said $100 more than 939 boards. You can buy a cheap 939 board new or a good one used for 50-60$

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Last things first. Sorry again, I disagree big time( surprised there uh?)! AMD can only dream of the sales Socket 478 STILL HAS! If it weren't for sales of AthlonXP, AMD would be in the red by about few 100 million, sheesh! As the Inquirer said, AMD announced they'd build 100K DC and Intel said 500K, that's peanuts for both companies. Even if AMD does repackage and call them Semprons :p: Meanwhile Intel is laughing all the way to the bank. Just because message boards are visited by More folks who choose AMD, doesn't mean the rest of the market lives in the same alternate reality.

All I said is that you were given links. Bah, I could care less what 8xx does, I'm not buying one. The speeds you quoted, is plenty fast as well. Dewd, 3.8 or 3.7? Oh boowhooo, that's not 4GHz, would most folks even care?

Where I said about complaining, about 4GHz, I meant the regular 6xx/5xx, not the 8xx, mistake on my part. I've been known to do that, sheesh!

Donnie27

how the heck did this turn into AMD vs Intel. jeez. leave p4s, dothans. and amd64s out of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

If you don't like Intel (anything Intel makes)and yes from ExtremeTech I'm 100% sure you don't, then why come thread crap on this side of the forum? I ask you again, show us your Intel systems that you've gain so much skillz from?

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How exactly is that a thread crap? All I see if you bashing him for his suggestions to go A64 when its clearly a better option than a P4. You also lack evidence supporting any of your arguments whatsoever. Like usual.

:rolleyes:

Quote:

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Please note the BIASed move dippy did by leaving out the AMD processors that also run hotter than the Dothan, sheesh! But then many AMD biased folks find reasons not to buy Dothans either. Even Lithan only hates the P4.

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Please note this argument is about getting a P4 to 4ghz, not a P-M. btw, I didn't make that graph. It was from a review. You're brilliant dude. just BRILLIANT! :slap:

I would buy a dothan at a heartbeat if it was cheaper. :rolleyes: Infact, I have 12 G3 macs, and 4 P3's sitting in my room as I type this. :p: Along with 2 pentium's in my garage. 2 dead P4's. Replaced from dells.

Quote:

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Just a reminder.
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_cont...d=pm915&page=5

Admitting anything negative about AMD is still harder than having a tooth pulled with no painkiller for you uh?

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Wow. you just proved your whole first post wrong. Good job sherlock. :fact:

Verdict is: P4's use too much power, run too hot, and lack socket lifespan. Dothan or A64 is a much more viable option. :fact:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

Last things first. Sorry again, I disagree big time( surprised there uh?)! AMD can only dream of the sales Socket 478 STILL HAS! If it weren't for sales of AthlonXP, AMD would be in the red by about few 100 million, sheesh! As the Inquirer said, AMD announced they'd build 100K DC and Intel said 500K, that's peanuts for both companies. Even if AMD does repackage and call them Semprons :p: Meanwhile Intel is laughing all the way to the bank. Just because message boards are visited by More folks who choose AMD, doesn't mean the rest of the market lives in the same alternate reality.

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Donnie donnie donnie... noone gives a crap about market share. Its about a system, and performance.

A p4 using 100w difference compared to 30w on the dothan when the dothan will smoke it in benchmarks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nasgul

Pentium 4s make more sense....reliable, stable and compatible, can handle everything that the "others" can.

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one sample? :slapass: Must I find some dead p4 examples? SNDS? remember that? reliable my :banana: . Ive build many pc's for people using AMD's. guess what they upgraded from? dell p4's. My p4 at school couldnt even run visual studio for 10 minutes without crashing. Hooray for prescotts! lost 3 weeks of work! :mad:

I have yet to be called back by a customer having PC problems. Going on 3 years now. :woot:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

Last things first. Sorry again, I disagree big time( surprised there uh?)! AMD can only dream of the sales Socket 478 STILL HAS! If it weren't for sales of AthlonXP, AMD would be in the red by about few 100 million, sheesh! As the Inquirer said, AMD announced they'd build 100K DC and Intel said 500K, that's peanuts for both companies. Even if AMD does repackage and call them Semprons :p: Meanwhile Intel is laughing all the way to the bank. Just because message boards are visited by More folks who choose AMD, doesn't mean the rest of the market lives in the same alternate reality.

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What in god's name are you talking about? I said no overclocker is buying the $20 xp boards or the $35 478 boards because they suck. In other words you can buy the cheapest board available, but it will suck. What board is everyone buying for these chips? The P5WD2 according to most of the 8XX owners I've seen.

Quote:

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All I said is that you were given links. Bah, I could care less what 8xx does, I'm not buying one. The speeds you quoted, is plenty fast as well. Dewd, 3.8 or 3.7? Oh boowhooo, that's not 4GHz, would most folks even care?

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Folks who asked specifically if they could get 4ghz "100% stable" on air and were practically told it was guaranteed might care. If you don't care about such a low difference in mhz, go buy the venices I'm selling. One of them can do 2975mhz prime stable @ 1.65vcore on air. (Or at least close enough I'm sure you won't care). Correct me if I'm reading this wrong but, "I was wrong, but that's not important, what's important is that now that I know I was wrong, the arguement is moot!"

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Where I said about complaining, about 4GHz, I meant the regular 6xx/5xx, not the 8xx, mistake on my part. I've been known to do that, sheesh!

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Well of course there are 6XX hitting 4ghz on air. Hell I've seen good ones hitting in the area of 4.5ghz. That's one of the reasons the 8XX are so disappointing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lithan

What in god's name are you talking about? I said no overclocker is buying the $20 xp boards or the $35 478 boards because they suck. In other words you can buy the cheapest board available, but it will suck. What board is everyone buying for these chips? The P5WD2 according to most of the 8XX owners I've seen.

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lol I'd love to see a $100 p4 mobo handle a 4ghz p4 24/7. Ain't gonna happen. period. :rolleyes: