hardocp publishes new SLI scores 9300 in 2k5 stock

I heard awhile back, maybe a month, not much more, that one card renderd the bottom of the screen and one renderd the top.

And of course if ati releases the r520 nvidia nvidia will release something to compete but thats because nvidia was already working on that, as that is a standard thing to do, be working on your next chipset. Nvidia is making something completely new, well... somewhat new, but you get my point. And I don't think there will be a sli 2 with 3 videocards or something, that just dosn't seem very practical to me. Specially since after awhile it's going to be cpu limited if it keeps at that rate.

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Originally Posted by perkam

Uh Huh...


And YES, i knew that the lowest mainstream card to support SLI was the 6600 the day it came out - I was using the 5900 xt as an example of an obsolete PCIe card as no other obsolete examples are available as you said yourself that 6800 Us are far from being obsolete for a number of years.

Where's your response to this saaya:

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Stop trying to back track out of your initial mistake, you said

"With SLI, your 5900XT PCIE continues to be obsolete but instead of replacing it, you add another one for a temporary performance increase and you're still stuck with the same old technology"

If it is not SLi you do not get any performance increase at all , so you obviously thought this was an SLi card.

Can you show me how, as you claim, two ATi X700's in a PCI e chipset motherboard would increase performance, a link will surfice. I'd like to know the performance gain would be from spending twice as much money and then compare it to the gains from nvidia's SLi implementation.

Regards

Andy

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Originally Posted by perkam

actually thats exactly how the current sli works as per its launch documents - an alternating line for each video card - not very different from 3dfx. Its the only efficient way to run SLI but its also the oldest.

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http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewto...&highlight=sli

"Back in the initial 3dfx implementations the SLI acronym stood for “Scan Line Interleave” because two Voodoo2’s could be connected together allowing one board would render the odd numbered horizontal lines, whilst the second would render the even – 3dfx introduced a fully digital version with Voodoo5, whereby the screen would be divided into bands and each chip on the board would render different bands. The solution NVIDIA is announcing adopts neither of these methods, and is curiously very similar to the recently announced Alienware solution in that one board will render the top portion of the screen whilst the other board will render the rest. Similar to Alienwares solution, the drivers will monitor the performance between both boards and adjust the ratio of the split between each of the boards"


http://www.nvidia.com/page/sli.html


"NVIDIA SLI-based GPUs can easily communicate with one another without the overhead associated with a bus-only implementation. In addition, unique software algorithms efficiently share the workload to deliver unbelievable performance. "

You do not have to have algorithms to share the work load if they are doing simple alternative lines like 3dfx.


Regards

Andy

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Originally Posted by perkam

Uh Huh...

You know how the republicans are always accusing democrats of being too liberal and the democratics are accusing republicans of being too conservative - calling me an ATI fanboy says something about your biases as well - whether you like to or not

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ask the other people on this forum, im neither an ati or nvidia fan boy if you mean that. im kinda bashing nvidia most of the time for their marketing ;) so saying im calling you an ati fanboy because im an nvidia fanboy wont work. same can be said about andy.

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Originally Posted by perkam

And YES, i knew that the lowest mainstream card to support SLI was the 6600 the day it came out - I was using the 5900 xt as an example of an obsolete PCIe card as no other obsolete examples are available as you said yourself that 6800 Us are far from being obsolete for a number of years.

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if thats true then why did you mention 5900xts and x700x running in sli or an sli like configuration?

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Originally Posted by perkam

Where's your response to this saaya:

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Nvidia has been developing SLI (an almost obsolete solution from 3dfx) for 2 years ----> So guess how long ATI has known about and had time to prepare for it, if you are really that smart

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yes, ati knew about nvidia new sli all the time, so? they said they wont go sli or something similar as they consider the market too small and think its not worth the time and effort for basically the same reasons you criticize sli for.

so your not really making any sence... your bashing nvidia for sli saying its stupid and doesnt make any sence etc, but then you say ati will come up with something just like sli (wich is not stupid and IS making sence?) and will of course be better than nvidias sli solution. and you base all that on? your dreams... ? :P


kryptobs2000, ati probably knew about it from the start as nvidia was pushing the ability to have 2 videocards in pciE from the start :)

stayfrosty, you dont have to come up with something completely different, "small changes in the right places" is all it takes to go around a patent law :D

and 3dfx was going down anyways, the voodoo5 series would have cost at least as much as a geforce2 ultra, but the geforce2 ultra was a lot faster in almost all benches and was released just 6 months after the voodoo5 series should have been released afaik

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Originally Posted by perkam

Its just amusing to see such anxiety over a simple statement:

It is really TOO HARD for you people to believe that ATI, being just as competitive as Nvidia, to have a response to SLI, which in my view is a desperate attempt to gain 1-2 % more market share compared to the 10% it lost to ATI last year.

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its not hard, its just very unlikely as ati themselves always stated they dont have a response to sli as they consider it a waste of time/effort for the few 1-2% market share.

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Originally Posted by perkam

This is the first time ive been in a forum where seniority automatically means knowledge or superiority. I've never stated in ANY of my few posts that I was better than anyone in any way. Its people like Andy and Saaya who have been making most of the those accusations - being senior/experienced members might I add.

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what accusations? and we are not talking about new members on this forum, we are talking about YOU! and you are certainly not an average new member on this forum pretending to know it all better yet have no facts in your hands at all and even lack some basic knowledge. :stick:

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Originally Posted by perkam

I MEAN, youre more than ready to believe that if ATI brings out the R520 sooner that Nvidia will respond equally yet to vanish the thought that ATI might have something up its sleeve ???? (WHY :rolleyes: )

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ati and nvidia are extremely close to one another atm. im sure both have something up their sleeves to launch once one of them launches something new. both are more or less in the same time cycle now, releasing cards at almost the same time and having samples at almost the same time, so what makes you think ati would all the sudden have a few weeks advantage over nvidia? again, your comming up with pure speculation and are then surprised if people have doubt about what you say? :stick:

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Originally Posted by perkam

Seriously, being judgemental instead of inputting constructive criticism is not the way I would act after a couple of 1000 posts.

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we gave you constructive criticism. get some facts first before you come up with wild speculations, and inform yourself about the basics before you talk about a certain topic (x700s and 5900xts do NOT run in sli or a similar way on pciE boards! the new sli does NOT mean scan line interleaving like 3dfx's sli but stands for scalable link interface and is working different compared to 3dfx's sli!)

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Originally Posted by perkam

As for SLI, time will tell how feasible it remains but keep this in mind - Nvidia is on an architectural path of doom since it might ultimately be shipping SLI II or something utilizing three cards instead of two but using old technology. My concern is with the greater good of the consumer who wants the newest in graphics technology - not more of the same.

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1st, another wild speculation, im not even going to comment about it.
2nd, no, actually people dont give shoit about sm3.0 for example as there wont be a game out that only runs with sm3.0 for many months.

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Originally Posted by perkam

actually thats exactly how the current sli works as per its launch documents - an alternating line for each video card - not very different from 3dfx. Its the only efficient way to run SLI but its also the oldest.

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:bs: again.. do your homework...

perkam, im sory if i offended you, but you keep comming up with wrong infos... if you want to talk about sli thats no problem :cool: but listen to other people and if your not sure about something then just ask instead of claiming something thats just wrong :) doesnt hurt to ask :D

im sure you will see what a nice place this forum is if you start listening to the people here and talk to them and stop trying to show everybody that you know more than them. me and andy are not sure about some things sometimes and then just add a "?" to it or ask the other people on the forum, or we even make mistakes :D, then its time to apologize and explain we were confused about something, but thats no problem, nobody will bash you just because you admit you were wrong about something once :)

i hope you will stop trying to convince us of how expirienced you are and how much you know and just talk to us like everybody else on this forum :toast:

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i hope you will stop trying to convince us of how expirienced you are and how much you know and just talk to us like everybody else on this forum

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My intention was to suggest the possibility that ATI MAY have a response. And the 5900 xt was again, an example of an obsolete PCIe card.

Im not even concerned that much about being "xtremely" right any more as I am sure I will be wrong about a lot of things during my stay here at Xtreme Systems - but that doesnt mean I will be wrong about everything - which happens to be the attitude of the ppl in this thread.

Its one thing to correct me if im wrong (which I appreciate because I gain new knowledge as well) - its quite another to start flaming me while moving away from the thread's topic - neither of which invites members to intervene in the discussion.

And no, I wont be explaining myself anymore because I believe we all make mistakes and in the course of arguing for what we believe is right or should be, we make assumptions and speculate of future possibilities - theres nothing wrong with that.

As for SLI (Good God ppl :eek: ) Nvidia and ATI both have already catered with multi-card technologies to high-end graphics rendering firms for military and research purposes and ATI could have introduced this technology years ago (NO NOT THE MAXX) but decided not to in the interest of technological progression, I BELIEVE

Maybe I am getting to be a grumpy old man in my old age.

Perkham, my apologies if it seemed to you that I beat down on some of your statements because you were new, that was not my intention. However we have had people come in here before with both either nvidia or ATI on the brain, they've said things typical of nvnews or rage3d ( which is not bad as such ) but not xtremesystems. Then they have left.

People at xtremesystems tend to like what's fastest, not what the label says. We may have favourites, mine being nvidia, which may make is more combative when someobody turns up saying things, but only if those things are avoiding reality, and reality to us is speed.

SPEED IS KING.

So I bought an Ati 9800 Pro recently for gaming, macci moves from Intel to AMD and back again, as does OPPAINTER etc etc.

Saaya, others and I were being maybe a bit noisy because we are excited by SLi and what it will take it to perform even faster, it does not matter if it is ATI or nvidia as it offers a big jump.

Big jumps in performance are fairly wide spread and much to be admired, I can think of Intel 875./P4, Ati 9700 onwards, AMD64, cascades for the cooling and now the latest Ati XT800 and to some extent the 6800 series. So we like these things when they appear.

So when Sli is being talked about not to have one good word about it and use dubious statements to try and stick to your ground was what got my goat ( as we say in England, hope that translates well ).

Having said all that, if you wish to stick around ( and not totally hacked off with XS people like me ) then I offer my hand out and say more than happy to start off again on the right foot.

If you need any tips on overclocking nvidia just ask ( joke :) )

All the best

Andy

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Originally Posted by perkam

My intention was to suggest the possibility that ATI MAY have a response. And the 5900 xt was again, an example of an obsolete PCIe card.

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thats not what you said and thats not what you did.
NOW your starting to use words like "may" and "maybe" and "i believe" and "i think"

thats not what you said before ;)

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Originally Posted by perkam

No one said you cant run two XT PEs on an nforce4 board or even dual PCIe offerings from Via (Not to mention ATI's own PCIe chipsets coming out real soon :) )

They just need the right drivers to perform just as well as SLI.

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= xt-pe's can run in sli or an sli like manner. there was no "i think" or "i believe" or "maybe" here.

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Originally Posted by perkam

EDIT: As I said, you CANT massively overclock the 6800 GTs because of SLI (like two bricks on fire lol)

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again, this is just a claim, yet theres no "i think" or "i believe" or "maybe" here.

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Originally Posted by perkam

I sure know that Nvidia is on the wrong side of the overclocking game with SLI.

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no you dont, you should have used "i think" or "i believe" or "maybe" instead of "i sure know".

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Originally Posted by perkam

You're (you are) very wrong there. ATI cards have always had the ability to run two cards in the same system, just not with the same performance maximization as SLI. I'm actually planning on two X700XTs in my PCIe system :cool: . Its (it is) actually the kind of difference between single and dual channel ram - fundementally speaking. Dual channel works at full capacity 1 Gig with maximum memory bandwith while single channel at 1 gig works slower but still runs at whatever default speed both rams are on (be it PC-3200 or PC2-5400).

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no i wasnt wrong, if you want "constructive criticism" then you have to learn how to deal with criticism first. instead of listening to what i and andy and others said and researching a bit (wich would have shown you that ati cards can NOT run in an sli like configuration) you just say "your very wrong" without having anything to back up that claim.

now your saying ati "may" have something like sli, but thats not what you said back then. you said ati DOES have something like sli and two ati cards CAN run in an sli board.

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Originally Posted by perkam

ATI's response will be short 'n sweet

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again no "i think" or "i believe" or "maybe" in this sentence.

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Originally Posted by perkam

actually thats (that is)exactly how the current sli works

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again no "i think" or "i believe" or "maybe" in this sentence.


so now you see why we are a bit upset with you? you never made clear that you are speculating and even denied to be wrong with statements you made, instead you attacked mine and andies credibility by saying we would only bash you because you are new to the forum and said we would lack constructive criticism.

excuse me, but we didnt bash you, instead we showed you your mistakes and told you how it really was. instead of agreeing that you were wrong and made a mistake you tried to discredit us and are now running away from the problem by saying:

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Originally Posted by perkam

I wont be explaining myself anymore because I believe we all make mistakes and in the course of arguing for what we believe is right or should be, we make assumptions and speculate of future possibilities - theres nothing wrong with that.

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thats not the problem, speculating is fine as long as you DO speculate and dont claim things ARE the way you THINK they are or the way they MAY be.

saying "i think ati has something like sli up their sleeves" is just fine while saying "atis cards can run in an sli capable boards just like nvidias, they just dont get such a big performence boost" is wrong (for the moment) and it rather sounds like you made it up as you dont have any informations or facts to back that claim up.

i hope you dont run away from your problems, but face them ;)
just use the words "i think" "i believe" and "maybe" more often and research a bit more before you claim things and all is fine :toast:

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Having said all that, if you wish to stick around ( and not totally hacked off with XS people like me ) then I offer my hand out and say more than happy to start off again on the right foot.

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Thx Andy for the truce - I felt the same way - that I was crossing the line between speculation and dubiousness. I didnt want to decipher everything you said by quote because I have no intention rebutting your kind words (something I cant say for saaya). I also have to intention of having a feud with a person who has more posts than my 3dmark03 score (saaya).

I myself believe that, perhaps, my bias (yes I know I have one) towards ATI was blinding me to the techonological marvel that SLI has a potential of becoming (there I said it) and that Nvidia may have gotten ATI by surprise. Certainly, I was wrong to have thought I could force my beliefs onto others in the above manner. But then again, you guys came on me like the entire Newyork Giants Defensive line - to tell you the truth , I was a bit out of my league because of that.

Thats that then - a lesson learned and a perspective gained.

I'm outta here....that is - until ATI releases the R480 :p:

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Originally Posted by perkam

Thx Andy for the truce - I felt the same way - that I was crossing the line between speculation and dubiousness. I didnt want to decipher everything you said by quote because I have no intention rebutting your kind words (something I cant say for saaya). I also have to intention of having a feud with a person who has more posts than my 3dmark03 score (saaya).

I myself believe that, perhaps, my bias (yes I know I have one) towards ATI was blinding me to the techonological marvel that SLI has a potential of becoming (there I said it) and that Nvidia may have gotten ATI by surprise. Certainly, I was wrong to have thought I could force my beliefs onto others in the above manner. But then again, you guys came on me like the entire Newyork Giants Defensive line - to tell you the truth , I was a bit out of my league because of that.

Thats that then - a lesson learned and a perspective gained.

I'm outta here....that is - until ATI releases the R480 :p:

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too bad you decided to run away from your problems :(
again you see a personal attack instead of crticism... you really should learn to deal with criticism in a better way...

sorry if i offended you though, hope you come back with a better attitude next time :D

When the 480 comes out.... Nvidia will release something as well.. and then it will have an option for SLI. Unless ATI comes out with something that will always be twice the performance of Nvidia.... then I can understand why perkam would think SLI is illogical. But ATI has never released anything that is twice the performance of an equally marketed Nvidia card... so SLI is indeed a welcome innovation IMO. It gives Nvidia users the ability to run state of the art of technology equal to any competitors out there... while also giving the ability to run that same technology twice as better. (I don't care about buying one now.. and then when my card is obsolete... buy another one. It's called trading.. and I do it all the time... although it can drain your wallet).

As far as I know ATI do not see SLI as a route for desktop machines
you will certainly see dual core make its ways but SLI will in the main
stay as Nvidia and they spent 2.5 years on the drivers anyway.

I'd be surprised if ATI were to go down the SLI route i'd think the pro's of going dual core would be more to ATI benefit as its sounds like the work to bring that to fruitation is well under way.

this sli seems like extreme edition of intel if you cant be the #1 then do something unexpectable and cost lot at least you can be #1 this is what i think

do you think i was too unfriendly and harsh towards perkam?
seriously...

please let me know what you think.

if you are asking to me i dont think like that if you dont ask to me just ignore me everybody :D

im asking all of you :)

btw, im suing your avatar as my dekstop background for some time now :D

white desktop background with it centered in the middle, looks really really nice, try it :D

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too bad you decided to run away from your problems

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You just have to have the last laugh huh saaya.

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sorry if i offended you though, hope you come back with a better attitude next time

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Ive been quite surprised by the easiness with which ppl with more than a hundred times my posts are able to apologize at a moments notice - I respect that - I wouldve thought you would let off a bit more steam before doing that :p: And yes my attitude has left something to be desired and Im seeing that now.

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Unless ATI comes out with something that will always be twice the performance of Nvidia....

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Lets be careful when we say 2x the performance because not only is it exactly so (more like 1.7 - yes im being picky about this because you're paying Exactly 2x the price :eek: )...It also doesnt mean twice the techonological innovation - as it used to. For example, the X800 Pro/6800 GT is twice the performance of the 9800 XT/5900 Ultra -> Thats makes sense to me as twice the performance because it also means a new generation of cards using brand new technology (Gddr3, etc).

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I'd be surprised if ATI were to go down the SLI route i'd think the pro's of going dual core would be more to ATI benefit as its sounds like the work to bring that to fruitation is well under way.

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ATI already has a multi card solution but as you stated they probably will NOT port it to consumer product line. But they could AND it wouldnt be called SLI - thats now Nvidia's patent - I prefer the generic term "dual GPU capable"

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do you think i was too unfriendly and harsh towards perkam?

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This isnt The Inquisition and no you werent harsh at all - Ive had worse criticisms laid down to my face than that - No problem

I suppose i WILL be waiting to see OCed scores of two 6800 Us by Macci et al but (yes theres always a but) I will always be skeptical of its long term practicality unless Nvidia can pull the carpet from under ATI's currently very cosy armchair. :cool:

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Originally Posted by perkam

You just have to have the last laugh huh saaya

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i had hoped you would reply to that like you did and not just dissapear to whatever forum you came from :D

i wont let you come here, post exaggerated claims, then :stick: us for correcting you and calling us unfriendly and then leave xs again :D
hehehehe

im glad you replied and are not as offended as your last post made me think you were. i hope you realized that though andy and i have a high post count we do mistakes and we have no problem to admit it and apologize :)

i was just a bit upset for one of your previous posts that sounded like you still wouldnt admit that you exaggerated and claimed things that werent true but would instead just leave xs after you annoyed us with your unfounded claims and kept insisiting on incorrect claims and pretend like nothing had happened :D

in fact the idear of ati having something to compete with sli is nothing new to me and i was thinking the same as well :D but its just an idear and there are no facts about it! :D

and after reading several officials from ati posting they wont have something like sli im very carefull talking about this or predicting something.

glad you decided to stay :toast:

I've always been biased towards ATI, ever since the whole NV3x and R3xx series were in competition. You get used to accepting that one company is just plain better than the other after 2.5 years of it. The new cards have leveled the field, yet I still feel obligated to side with ATI.

SLI, for all I'm concerned, could remain an nVidia only thing forever and it wouldn't matter. The only people that will use SLI are people doing heavy duty graphics rendering like computers processing weather satellite information and such, or the high end benchmarkers who could care less that they pay 2x and only get 1.7x performance. To me, even if ATI had the same thing, where you could get 1.7x performance, it wouldn't matter. 1 $500 video card is surely fast enough for all the games, and unless you're trying to set 3dmark WRs, there's no point in owning SLI anyhow.

I can understand how it gets under people's skin all the back and forth comparing single cards, but SLI is a luxury akin to phase change cooling, one luxury that a huge percentage of the population doesn't have, can't afford and doesn't think is remotely necessary. But, for those that throw money down on dual cascades, etc. etc., let them have their fun. I'm glad someone has something like SLI working, just to further open the envelope of technology, and push the limits of computing. Eventually stuff like SLI will be a standard, and it has to begin somewhere. :)

So for the fanboys, put aside your bias, because it's not like you're going to use SLI anyways, even if you are an nVidia fan. ;)

I can understand how it is ridiculous for high end cards, but I think SLI's biggest advantage is in the mainstream sector. When you got a slower card and the newest game needs a bit more power to run at quality settings, then you just run out and get another one of your card at a much cheaper price then your first one (cause this is a while after you got your first card). Then you get the raw performance of a more expensive model for less $$. Sure for high end cards it's crazy expenisve, but for those with, say a 6600 standard, it could be very nice indeed, because now you have almost the performance of a 6800GT, and since the purchases aren't at the same time, much less cost.

Now if you're going to buy both card at the same time, then it's crazy unless you're going for WR. But if you've got the money, then SLI is a good thing.

Yeah, that is a good point. It makes upgrading easier, as you can do it in steps... akin to buying an extra 512MB of memory, etc.

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It makes upgrading easier, as you can do it in steps... akin to buying an extra 512MB of memory, etc.

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Remember though that even with my memory analogy a few posts back that if you do buy 512 mb once and then get another stick to upgrade - someone who buys a 1 Gig (2x512) Dual Channel Ram in one full swoop will still be better off and only a few people do that.

Same with SLI, you might be able to get another SLI card down the road but wont be the same as those people with $$ that will buy two at the same time and then upgrade both :eek: when new technology comes out.

In addition, in the time most people will wait for a price drop that compensates for buying two mainstream cards instead of one high end one, newer technology with one card solutions (yes from both ATi and Nvidia) will be out and they might actually be faster/power efficient/better technology (SM4.0 :confused: ) than your two cards in the same price range.

In addition, its not too far off to believe the above because now that SLI IS OUT, both companies will be working harder to try to outgun each other for at least the next 18 months and so ATI has a couple of options but one of desperate ones would be to try to outperform two 6600s/6800s with perhaps a X750XT or X850XT or something with stock maxed out (no OC ability) and huge temperature issues - again that would be a desperate measure if and only if IT HASNT PREPARED for SLI.

Perkam

Right now a X800XT and those like it preform very similar to the GeForce FX 6800 Ultra. I don't see ATi releasing a X750 and X850 cards since I THINK that ATi already has plans for those model numbers.
O'yeah and Perkam. We all mess up sometimes...once i read a post at 1in the morning and thought that XS was BS...and got a little...angery at who posted..I made sure to appolgise the next day and now no feuds.

perkam, i think you are an ati fanboy, isn't it sorta obvious nvidia is king with sli?...cus otherwise, i have no idea wat the heck your talking about :P
i don't wanna sound rude or anything, anyways, sli is an excellent option to upgrading i think, i mean, take for example if sli was something ati did back in the days of the 9500pro..man that would just rock! imagine how much money you could save...getting two 9500pro...man
course its now, but sli still kicks majorly

Your say ATI have a multicard solution can you give me a link to that please...
or article discribing this multicard solution i'd like to have a read if it.

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man that would just rock! imagine how much money you could save...getting two 9500pro

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Actually, I agree - That WOULD rock but then you could get a 9800 pro with 256-bit interface for 1.5x the price with 1.5x the performance not be prone to the downsides of SLI and its two card burden

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Your say ATI have a multicard solution can you give me a link to that please...

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Link to Article:
Tech Report Article

Link to company using them:
Evans and Sutherland

As you can see from article:

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The Ensemble and simFUSION product families will be the lines to receive the Radeon, and these solutions will also come in multi-chip builds

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