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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolance
Tim,
I just recieved the res and the adapter its nice and solid. I was following these instructions and I noticed when installing the acrylic piece in the bottom half this would only allow the system to pull water from the top chamber correct? Is there anyway to have this work in the reverse order? my concern is the water level falling too low and only having the top return available for water return.
This is really confusing. So the instructions say to only place the acrylic connector in the bottom pump return. got it but it doesnt say where to place the pipe bridge. now if i go by the picture this will cause the bridged pump to pump right back into pump number 2's chamber. would i not want the flow to be res>pump>pump? or is it better to run pump>res>pump?
This thing is absolutely gorgeous I wish i had some 5.25" bays open :(
going by the instructions and the pictures with the adapter i have given up on trying to bleed the system..... if the res is below 85 percent the pumps suck on air..... you can only fill it to about 90% just how the holes are cut.... turning on the pumps causes the water line to drop below 85% and it sucks air you try try to add more water but it just doesn't seem to help. why would you design it to use the top most hole in the res when using 2 pumps in a series???
Our tester just realized the pictures we have on our site for the connecting nozzles aren't correct. If you use the optional internal acrylic bypass, the connecting bridge should be on the lower ports ("P1 [IN]" and "P2 [OUT]"), not on the top ports. We've added a note below the original image.
It takes patience to tilt/burp the top right reservoir for sure. It's definitely doable, though. Martin's recommendation of attaching a piece of tubing and a fill port higher up was a good idea. I strongly suggest turning the pump all the way down to the lowest possible speed when filling. Running 12-24V to the D-5 makes it much tougher to bleed, even with other types of reservoirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xel_NaGa
We didn't plumb the reservoirs haphazardly. It's a very small amount of space to work with for two D-5's, and shifting more convenience to the filling/bleeding process on the higher reservoir would have meant assembling the acetal in separate machined pieces (losing reliability/cost), or perhaps swelling past the 2 x 5.25" footprint.
Tim
Yep, I can vouch for martin's method and agree with Tim. It takes a bit longer and is, admittedly, a royal PITA to bleed this res, but it shouldn't take more than 8 hours, provided you use that technique. My GPU blocks and a PA 120.2 are on the loop with the right res and after give or take 8 hours everything is golden. I've been having some major issues with one of my cards, so I've been doing this quite a lot of this in the past fortnight. It will bleed, trust me :)
Firstly just want to say great product!Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolance
Second..
I have recently put 2 of the 452x2's in my system and it does work with the new acrylic bypass installed with serial loop at the top. What is the difference between operation at top and bottom?
I did notice if one pump becomes disabled or fails with the loop installed at the top it is possible that the coolant flow will stall! Is this the reason for the recommendation to put the serial link at the bottom?
It has been a bit of pain to bleed as people have said, and I am unable to run the pumps at setting 5 as they suck any remaining air back through the loop.
Any recommendations for how to get maximum performance and redundancy from them? Is it possible to put a small pickup pipe inside the top outlet port to allow the pickup point to be a bit lower so bleeding is less of an issue?
I just want to say I am in no way disappointed with the product, they are really well made, look great and have made my complex setup cleaner and easier overall to manage maintenance. (along with all the excellent koolance QDC's, extensions, adapters and compression fittings!)
Here's a couple before serial link and after shots.
Before serial links with flow going to blocks then rads and back to res.
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/...767.JPG?psid=1
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/...803.JPG?psid=1
I haven't tested the acrylic insert or serial connector yet. I gave Skinnee my spare King Instruments flow meter and test reservoir and the other two are setup for CPU and pump noise based testing.
To get the right/upper reservoir completely full, you'll have to tip the case sideways to the left such that the port hole is the highest point. Run it like that for a while at full speed and top it off little by little or use a barb/hose/funnel. It probably depends on flow rate, but when I tested it, there was enough turbulence that air would walk it's way up into the filler hole. Then BEFORE you shut the pumps off, cap the reservoir when completely full. The trick is to do this while the pumps are running so the additional volume created by pressure in the tubing is also completely full.
Anyhow, try the tilt 45, keep the pumps running and cap while running tip. That worked for me and a couple of people that have PMed me needing help with this.
Regarding the T-line connection, never thought of that, but I'm sure a simple T-line fill port places before the pump inlet would be an option. You could top it off at that point as any air would eventually get trapped there. That's a bit of a work around, but it might be more convenient for filling/topping off than sliding the reservoir in and out for some users..?
Well I've pulled apart one of the reservoirs this afternoon to checkout modding opportunities to make it easier to bleed air out.
I came to the conclusion that it's easiest if you rotate the res upside down and have the acrylic recirculation piece at the top on the right and the intake/outlet on the bottom left. This way you avoid the air pocket at the inlet to the pump! Took only 10mins to bleed most of the micro bubbles with both pumps on setting 5!!!!! Oh and I removed the acrylic baffle that was there in the top originally(now bottom), not sure what purpose that fulfills? I found the bubbles dissipated faster off the front panel because of more turbulance in the res!?
New problem... filling is a little harder.. but because you have the front fill ports you can lay the res flat and fill it...
oh and the logos/text on the front are upside down! :(
Another option I have considered is fitting a small piece of copper pipe with a small radius long enough to put the inlet pickup down away from the top of the res, thereby avoiding the air pocket at the top.
Final and best option (hint hint Koolance!!!) would be to fit another custom piece of acrylic to the top tank, like the serial acrylic insert but with an angled path down from the inlet with just a straight through hole to the outlet. Only problem is you would need an O-ring at the inlet port to properly seal it and you would want to make sure the O-ring didn't get sucked into your pump!
Something like this that I just quickly hacked up in paint!
http://w7sp5a.blu.livefilestore.com/...Mod.jpg?psid=1
Hi Phatboy, do you have a picture of the front of your reservoir showing this? It's hard to visualize how you're running it.
Tim
Probably a silly question, but does Koolance make a reservoir like this for a single 655 pump? :D
You can run one pump in it fine. I have my pump on the P1 side, but have done my res flow a bit differently then standard.
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...p-452x2_d5.jpg
I am using both res tanks with the short plug in, and using P2's intake combined with P1's outlet. So it's coming in on the P2 In port (Blue), flowing to the P1 side of the res and feeding the pump in P1 via the Green P1 out port. I have found this method is much easier to bleed, as even on setting one I was having lots of air recirculating back into P1 inlet from the P1 outlet. This will change if adding another pump obviously, but I'm only running one so far and I couldn't be happier.
vulcZ: Koolance includes "blank pump" in both RP-452X2 & RP-402X2(for DDCs) that can be used to close 2nd pump's mounting place so that you can use this res with single pump, and upgrade if decide so later on. It's a bit costly though for single pump builds imho, but nevertheless i applaud how Koolance managed to made such flexible product that you can use in so many scenarios (single pump/dual pump semi parallel/dual pump parallel/dual pump serial), and all in just two 5.25 bays.
The RP-452X2 ships with one pump "blocked", so you can use it that way just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by vulcZ
If you connect "P1 [IN]" and "P2 [OUT]" with the rear pipe connector on the bottom, then use the internal acrylic bypass inside the lower reservoir, you are running into the top reservoir first (blue path in diagram below), then into pump-2, through the rear connector, through the front acrylic piece, and lastly in/out of pump-1. However, if you place the pipe connector on top ("P1 [OUT]" and "P2 [IN]"), then you're running through that reservoir in between the pumps, so you would lose some performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatboy69
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...p-452x2_d5.jpg
Tim
I looked at the cost (was about $108) vs a stand alone res ~$50-55 and pump top ~$40 (Canadian selection & prices aren't the greatest), it didn't work out to a huge difference (like $20). For that extra bit I got one hell of a solid piece of work, no hassle of where to mount the pump and separate res, lower number of compression fittings (2) as well. The only complaint I have as others, is the bleeding, but again I looked at that as pretty much a once of year, or twice a year issue.
is any D5 pump can be used for this res(such as laing d5/swiftech d5 etc) or its only the D5 one from koolance?
any D5 will do:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by s002wjh
I have the unit upside down with the serial acrlylic piece and rear loop in the default positions. This puts the serial acrylic piece now up top right and the rear serial link up top as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolance
I had my res full with only 1mm air left in the top and I was still getting thousands of micro bubbles continuously circulating with pumps set 3 or above?? Maybe there is a vortex forming because of the acrylic baffle?? I have QDC's on both ports now so I will try again tonight with the res in the upright position and leave the baffle out and see if I still have bleeding problems.
FYI,
I was just experimenting with a serial setup again, and tried with and without the acrylic in the top/right reservoir. It doesn't seal this way, but it does help with the bleeding a little and makes the lower/left reservoir the one to fill from and avoid having to keep that right reservoir completely full. A little bit of air still gets trapped in there, but tipping the case forward will draw it into the loop to get dropping in the left side. While still not easy, this may be a worthwhile alternative. Trying to top off the right reservoir is more of a challenge than letting the air take it's time getting caught on the left side.
I also tried without the baffle plate in the lower, but the turbulence in the reservoir was too much and created vortex problems. I do think using the acrylic in the top to help redirect the stream helps a little. You obviously will need to leave the long plug in to keep the pumps isolated for redundancy benefits.
I also tried completely removing the top baffle and I think that could work with enough patience as it would sort of act like any other chamber in the loop (Rad plenum chambers for example). The problem with it is that it collects air and tends to feed the pump big pockets worth at a time. In the end I think it would take longer.
I'll play around with this some more and report back later.. I do like the pipe serial connector, that works perfectly and sure beats a foot of tubing.:D
This afternoon I picked up some 5mm, 6mm and 8mm tubing and 8mm barbed elbows and plumbers PVC cement to experiment with extending the right res bay ports down lower into the res.. Ill try not to use the PVC cement if I can as Im not sure what the chemicals will do to the blocks! Pics to follow.
And we have a WINNER!
The raw components used to try various options...
http://w7sp5a.blu.livefilestore.com/...810.JPG?psid=1
The 8mm elbow with a piece of 6mm tubing did the trick!
http://w7sp5a.blu.livefilestore.com/...812.JPG?psid=1
How i was running it before upside down with the serial acrylic in the top.
http://w7sp5a.blu.livefilestore.com/...807.JPG?psid=1
And now the right way up with an extension to the pickup port.
http://w7sp5a.blu.livefilestore.com/...814.JPG?psid=1
A nice snug pressure fit without any glue!
http://w7sp5a.blu.livefilestore.com/...816.JPG?psid=1
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/...820.JPG?psid=1
Running after less than 5 minutes and only the usual occassional air bubbles like you would normally see bleeding a system, no more millions of micro bubbles constantly circulating!!! (on setting 5 both pumps)
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/...824.JPG?psid=1
Correct serial link installation on the left in the modified res and the right res still to be modified and the serial link to be installed at the bottom as per new instructions.
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/...827.JPG?psid=1
2nd Res modded.
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/...835.JPG?psid=1
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/...839.JPG?psid=1
Quick video of the mod
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUIoBXSv0lg
Just wanted to clarify a comment I made earlier, the coolant no longer stalls when either of the pumps is turned off now when the rear serial loop is installed at the bottom as now advised in the updated advice from Koolance. We now have full working redundancy in a serial loop!
Cheers.
PS. Both loops are now clear of air and quiet now there's no air recirculating!
I gotta admit that I was pretty stoked seeing these bay res' coming out. I've always been a fan of the bay res due to it's simplicity and functionality. I love being able to see my water level and flow at a glance and the ease with which I can fill and bleed my system. These new bay res' seem to have completely gotten away from that. Based on Martin's review and other posts it seems they're a pia to fill and bleed. Having to mod a $120+ res so it bleeds correctly...fail.
My $40 plexi double bay res literally bleeds 98% of the air in my system within the first couple minutes of start up. Other than the possible benefit of simplifying your loop a bit by incorporating the pump with the res and possibly looks, I just can't see spending $120 on something that offers little else. These may have sounded great on paper but the reality seems to be that they actually complicate things more than actually help. Totally negating the benefit of having a res in the first the place.