4+1 vs. 8+2(8+1) Phase Power Design

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06-29-2010, 12:50 PM
zanzabar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oj101

What's the TDP on an X4 965BE C2 at 4GHz 1.54v? And an X6 1090T at the same speed? I don't understand why the number of cores affects anything if the TDP is similar. Please someone enlighten me :(

the thulban parts have a better design than the denab, the l3 and IMC (or the cpu-NB on the cpu settings) make up most of the TDP and amd specs teh TDP for a batch of parts not the individual. so i would guess that they have an over estiment on the 965 c3 and that the 1090 comes close to 125W, but at least with my chip amd gave it a VID of 1.3V but it can do stock at 1.18V so it is lower watt than amd is saying it is and they over volted it. for amd TDP is a measure of the cooling needed not the power consumption so to really tell u need a board that can read the amps going to the cpu (i know that the gd70 can in the bios it would be nice to see some1 tap that setting.)
08-31-2010, 06:40 AM
erek

ASUS is boasting a True 16+2 power design !!!

http://usa.asus.com/FeatureList.aspx...tSu5m&F_ID=278

"The breakthrough technology of 16+2 phase VRM design is bringing to the ASUS motherboards. 16+2 phase power design (16-phase to vCore; 2-phase to vDRAM/QPI controller inside CPU) can reach high power efficiency, dispel heat generated by VRM module effectively, and lower more temperature compared to other VRM solution. With the high quality power components such as low RDS (on) MOSFETs, Ferrite core chokes with lower hysteresis loss, and 100% Japan-made high quality conductive polymer capacitors, ASUS 16+2 phase VRM design also ensure longer component life, minimum power loss, and help to reach the superior overclocking score ever than before."
08-31-2010, 11:18 AM
DedEmbryonicCe1

It sounds like that is aimed at Intel, not AMD.
11-07-2010, 12:08 PM
erek

http://www.evga.com/PRODUCTS/IMAGES/...13-TR_LG_5.jpg

is this a 4+1 Power Design or 3+1?

EVGA 113-M2-E113-TR...
11-07-2010, 12:58 PM
zanzabar

thats 4+1, count the chokes near the cpu and there are 7 that means the NB has 1+1 and that means there are 5 left so 4+1. but why would u want an NV chipset POS with a low performance IGP and that is unreliable when u can get a cheap amd chipset board for like $60 or less thats equivalent
11-12-2010, 09:11 AM
erek

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanzabar

thats 4+1, count the chokes near the cpu and there are 7 that means the NB has 1+1 and that means there are 5 left so 4+1. but why would u want an NV chipset POS with a low performance IGP and that is unreliable when u can get a cheap amd chipset board for like $60 or less thats equivalent

just wondering if that EVGA nForce 730a board will run a CPU cooler than a Gigabyte (AMD 760G chipset with only 3+1 Power Design)

the Gigabyte board for some reason reports a bit higher temperatures on the same chip than when ran on a board with a so-called 8+2 Phase Power Design... (ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3.)

Basically, going from the ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 [8+2 :: 2x 4+1] to a Gigabyte GA-MA78LM-S2 (rev. 1.0) [3+1] my AMD Phenom II X2 545 (Callisto) increased the temperatures using the same thermal paste and HSF..., so I was wondering if putting the CPU into an EVGA 113-M2-E113-TR [4+2]

...
11-12-2010, 09:16 AM
DedEmbryonicCe1

Quote:

Originally Posted by erek

just wondering if that EVGA nForce 730a board will run a CPU cooler than a Gigabyte (AMD 760G chipset with only 3+1 Power Design)

the Gigabyte board for some reason reports a bit higher temperatures on the same chip than when ran on a board with a so-called 8+2 Phase Power Design... (ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3.)

Basically, going from the ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 [8+2 :: 2x 4+1] to a Gigabyte GA-MA78LM-S2 (rev. 1.0) [3+1] my AMD Phenom II X2 545 (Callisto) increased the temperatures using the same thermal paste and HSF..., so I was wondering if putting the CPU into an EVGA 113-M2-E113-TR [4+2]

...

Unless the mosfets were so inefficient they were dumping tons of heat towards the socket it wouldn't have anything to do with that. I suspect there is a difference in voltage delivered (whether or not the difference is reported correctly to software).
11-12-2010, 12:58 PM
zanzabar

Quote:

Originally Posted by erek

just wondering if that EVGA nForce 730a board will run a CPU cooler than a Gigabyte (AMD 760G chipset with only 3+1 Power Design)

the Gigabyte board for some reason reports a bit higher temperatures on the same chip than when ran on a board with a so-called 8+2 Phase Power Design... (ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3.)

Basically, going from the ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 [8+2 :: 2x 4+1] to a Gigabyte GA-MA78LM-S2 (rev. 1.0) [3+1] my AMD Phenom II X2 545 (Callisto) increased the temperatures using the same thermal paste and HSF..., so I was wondering if putting the CPU into an EVGA 113-M2-E113-TR [4+2]

...

each board reports temps differently, and if u have a good pwm u can undervolt. but i would stay far away from NV chipsets ive had to many dead
ones to ever want to see a new one
04-14-2011, 05:44 PM
erek

anyone able to find an actual 8+1 (8+2) power design?
04-15-2011, 04:58 AM
Mechromancer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entropicity

No worries man. :)

Another company that has used non traditional power circuits is DFI. I believe they were one of the first to use digital pwm mainstream and it seems EVGA has started to do so too.

Just curious how DrMOS and Digital PWM stack up to traditional mosfets since Asus and Gigabyte seem to swear by them (in huge numbers) in their top range boards.

I'm interested in MSI's DrMOS too. Their 8-phase design may be a true 8-phase on the newer AM3 boards right?
04-15-2011, 05:15 AM
chew*

8 phase claims = 4+4 redundant.

If we are lucky we might just might see a real native 6 phase soon, of course someone will make it redundant and claim 12.
04-15-2011, 05:17 AM
Demo

How about those 24Phase power design from Gigabyte, do they really help in overclocking ?
04-15-2011, 05:18 AM
chew*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demo

How about those 24Phase power design from Gigabyte, do they really help in overclocking ?

No. it's not a real 24 phase its just many redundant phases.
04-15-2011, 08:19 AM
Valg

AM3+:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...aMmtpUFE&gid=3

AM3:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...XXzlLM1E&gid=6

AM2/AM2+:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...hMWNDVGc&gid=0
10-31-2013, 07:23 PM
erek

Is the Crosshair V Formula (AM3+) a true 8+2 Design?
10-31-2013, 08:06 PM
The Stilt

Quote:

Originally Posted by erek

Is the Crosshair V Formula (AM3+) a true 8+2 Design?

7+1, with one CPU and NB phase doubled.
11-20-2013, 02:29 PM
gearhead

The Sabertooth info says 8+2 as well is it the same setup as the Crosshair?
The M5A99FX Pro says 6+2 what setup is that?
11-20-2013, 04:35 PM
The Stilt

Quote:

Originally Posted by gearhead

The Sabertooth info says 8+2 as well is it the same setup as the Crosshair?
The M5A99FX Pro says 6+2 what setup is that?

Same configuration as on Crosshair boards.
6+2 on ASUS boards is a real 6+2 phase VRM.
No doublers used.
12-01-2013, 01:15 AM
raibemunn

I'm glad this thread is still going. So lets talk about fail.. I've overclocked AMD (:yepp:) since Duron multiplier pencil tricks, but being superlazy and often not thoural, I managed to blow mosfets on my GA-MA790x-DS4 this time. Here's what happened.

MB: GA-MA790x-DS4
CPU: X6 1090T 3.2GHz (most of the time at 3.6-3.8GHz around 1.35v ish)
RAM: Kingston HyperX 1066 @ 1066
PSU: OCZ 600W (4x18A @ 12v)

The mobo has 4+1 phase VRM WITHOUT heatsinks. I've ran 1090T @3.6-3.8GHz successfully on it for quite a while, not realizing how much strain x6 has on VRMs. But hey it worked with out any hiss coming from VRM and voltages were under 1.4v for vcore + I didn't care. Until this point I have never cared about VRM-s (yeees, that's pretty stupid), but also haven't gone for medium-high oc voltages.

Right, recently had some incentive to OC over 4GHz. Long story short - 4GHz was easy on 1.45v, but for 4.2GHz I pushed vcore to 1.5v.
It posted, it got to windows, I was smiling. Then I started prime95 and went for small FFTs. Strange snake sounds coming from VRM area. I got suspicious. Btw still no heatsinks on them :D, man I'm an idiot (so you wouldn't have to mention).
Looked at hwmonitor for a sec and vcore was doing 1.5-1.53, like really jumping around. And before I could close prime95, everything crashed. I think prime ran for a good 10 second - not bad for a suicide run.

So now I'm on a Pentium 3 slot 1, rocking at 866mhz with 256MB sdram. Posting here cuz people gotta cool your VRM-s! I never wanna see naked mosfets again.

What I'm wondering is that has my phenom survived. Do you guys know what usually happens in fails like this? Only mosfets burn or do they take chokes, caps, cpu etc with them?
I already ordered M5A99FX with 6+2 (heatsinks n stuff) and some mad 2133mhz+ DDR3 which speeds are the next milestone for my dear phenom. Gonna be fun.

Also going to get an additional phenom for further testing and fun on the gigabyte board. I wanna practice reflow soldering, but first gotta find replacement mosfets. Planning to change them all for something stronger. Got tons of copper blocks waiting for mods as well. Being a bit newby when it comes to fets, gotta ask you smarter folks what do you think about replacing them and is there a way to test them on board.
Original mosfets datasheet pdf and what I'm thinking of replacing them with datasheet pdf. Source drain has a bit more amps on it, but I guess that just gives strength when overclocking? Latter which im planning to do.

Thanks for bothering to read :)
06-11-2014, 03:22 PM
erek

Are there any actual 8+1 designs out yet?
06-11-2014, 09:28 PM
DedEmbryonicCe1

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Stilt

7+1, with one CPU and NB phase doubled.

:confused:Is the load balancing between all phases equally or do they have it spending more time on that doubled phase? I really don't understand the differences / benefits from doubling phases over keeping them separate.
04-25-2018, 03:20 PM
erek

Gamers Nexus is claiming this ASUS Crosshair VII Hero X470 is a 10 Phase Design, do you agree or disagree?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4PEgofGfz4

https://i.imgur.com/Xlc6HxU.jpg
04-27-2018, 08:37 PM
zanzabar

They claim it is 5x2 +2. That is still better than a non doubled 4/5/6. There are two ways doubling work. That board works with having one phase go then the second sub phase on the doubler goes, then the next phase starts. You can also run them so the doubled phases go at the time and you can turn off the doubling for low power applications. So, the way the one on the crosshair works is like a 10 phase but with less fine control. That is perfect for cost effective overclocking, but not great for low power consumption.
08-25-2018, 09:41 PM
docwhom

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanzabar

That is perfect for cost effective overclocking, but not great for low power consumption.

Sorry for being curious here but what other X470 and B450 (not leaving the B series out) motherboards, would you recommend for anyone wanting "Low-Power Consumption" ?

Price isn't the issue here, I am never looking for anything that is cheap but what is appropriate for running either a 2600X or a lowly 2400G cpu's (overclocked and under-volted).
08-28-2018, 04:41 PM
zanzabar

I would grab anything with a real six phase, check the buildzoid video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8T2gzIkw78

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