Temperatures in relation to flow-rates. Data on several CPU-Blocks

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10-11-2008, 07:30 AM
IanY

@HondaCity: dude, that second reservoir is robbing your flow rate.
10-11-2008, 07:36 AM
jcool

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

The same people who insist on 600/700/800 lb. ft. of torque and 500/600 hp in a family passenger car, or even station wagon/estate, prefer 0.2 GPM pumps lol How strange this world is. :yepp:

I gotta follow what my customers demand.. and they demand absolutely quiet rigs that eat close to 1KW. They want them to perform better than anything else on the market, while being quieter than your average office PC.

They don't care whether the CPU temp is 56C or 61C, so neither do I for water ;)
10-11-2008, 07:43 AM
yngndrw

jcool: I've got to agree with you. Look at the last graph that HESmelaugh posted:
http://shane.seraph.ch/GraphHighflow.jpg

Nearly double the flow rate lost 0.5C. That's only 1/50th, or 0.02%.
10-11-2008, 07:47 AM
G-UNIT91

Quote:

Originally Posted by HESmelaugh

I thought it was:
MCP350 = DDC-1T
MCP355 = DDC-1T+

But I'm not sure. Memorizing cryptic product descriptions isn't one of my strengths. :-)

I got an Update for you guys:

As promised, I wanted to see if I could reach those 2 GPM everyone goes on about here. ;-)
So, I installed one of these:
http://shane.seraph.ch/154.jpg

I also tightened up the loop as far as I could, what with the ball valve, temperature-sensor and flowmeter needing to be in there. Result:
http://shane.seraph.ch/Highflow2.jpg

And what did this effort and a dual-pump top with two MCP355 achieve?

* drumroll *

... about 1.2 GPM. :(

Still far from 2 GPM.
I'll post the data from the test-run anyway. Tomorrow. I'll have to make a pretty graph or something, first.

You must try the SANSO PDH-054...:up::eek:
10-11-2008, 07:49 AM
Hondacity

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

@HondaCity: dude, that second reservoir is robbing your flow rate.

it is? explain please :confused:

..sorry i don't have a flow meter stuck to it right now..and i have three pumps in series...lol..and its freaking cold outside... :rofl:
10-11-2008, 07:59 AM
IanY

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondacity

it is? explain please :confused:

..sorry i don't have a flow meter stuck to it right now..and i have three pumps in series...lol..and its freaking cold outside... :rofl:

Buddy,

Look I don't own XSPC reservoir tops, or for that matter, any XSPC tops. I'm not into scientific explanations or scientific data. I'm no engineer by training and honestly, all that lab data bores me to tears and couldn't disinterest me any greater. I'm the antithesis of Martin.

Generally, when I see graphs and charts, I go look at a different discussion. Is it because I don't understand graphs and charts? Not exactly. Years of applied math/maths took care of that. Its just that I have no interest in those.

What I do know is that I have tried multiple reservoirs in a loop before using small MCRESes. Why did I even do that? I don't know. Bored I guess.

The pertinent message here is that it does affect your flow rates, and quite considerably more than you can imagine. The turbulence inside a reservoir itself dampens flow rates.

I don't doubt Martin's recommendations and the XSPC reservoir top may be the very best top right now for the DDCs. However, I do know that Martin was referring to a single reservoir top in isolation. He wasn't envisioning the scenario where two are used in series.

Since money is not a great issue for you, I hgighly recommend that you purchase a regular XSPC top and use that in conjunction with the XSPC reservoir top.

Just a note. Just because I don't offer data or scientific explanations doesn't mean that I don't know what I am talking about, after all these years of observing others and trying things out.

As for me, I would never buy a XSPC top of any nature because its acrylic, but that's just me. It would give me a terminal heart attack. Shouldn't influence you in the least bit.
10-11-2008, 08:09 AM
HESmelaugh

Quote:

Originally Posted by yngndrw

jcool: I've got to agree with you. Look at the last graph that HESmelaugh posted:

Nearly double the flow rate lost 0.5C. That's only 1/50th, or 0.02%.

I was wondering if it would be neatly exponential. Something like 0.5 deg less every time you double the flow-rates. But while you gain lots of cooling performance doubling a very low flowrate, it looks like it's not even going to be 0.5 for each doubling in higher flowrates... Can't tell for sure, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

The same people who insist on 600/700/800 lb. ft. of torque and 500/600 hp in a family passenger car, or even station wagon/estate, prefer 0.2 GPM pumps lol How strange this world is. :yepp:

Yeah, that is kinda weird. But the whole thing doesn't make sense anyway. I always find it amusing, when someone on a (usually German) forum goes: "what's the point in getting a better pump? you hardly get better temperatures at all!". We're talking about liquid cooling PCs, it's not like spendign piles of money to get a nice, shiny liquid-cooling setup in your PC is the most significant thing you can do in your life. It's just for fun. So what, if someone wants flowrates that put the Niagra Falls to shame?

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-UNIT91

You must try the SANSO PDH-054...:up::eek:

Really? In the shop where I found it, it's rated for 360l/h. The MCP355 is rated for 600l/h... I haven't ever tried the Sanso, though.
10-11-2008, 08:17 AM
Hondacity

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

Buddy,

Look I don't own XSPC reservoir tops, or for that matter, any XSPC tops. I'm not into scientific explanations or scientific data. I'm no engineer by training and honestly, all that lab data bores me to tears and couldn't disinterest me any greater. I'm the antithesis of Martin.

Generally, when I see graphs and charts, I go look at a different discussion. Is it because I don't understand graphs and charts? Not exactly. Years of applied math/maths took care of that. Its just that I have no interest in those.

What I do know is that I have tried multiple reservoirs in a loop before using small MCRESes. Why did I even do that? I don't know. Bored I guess.

The pertinent message here is that it does affect your flow rates, and quite considerably more than you can imagine. The turbulence inside a reservoir itself dampens flow rates.

I don't doubt Martin's recommendations and the XSPC reservoir top may be the very best top right now for the DDCs. However, I do know that Martin was referring to a single reservoir top in isolation. He wasn't envisioning the scenario where two are used in series.

Since money is not a great issue for you, I hgighly recommend that you purchase a regular XSPC top and use that in conjunction with the XSPC reservoir top.

Just a note. Just because I don't offer data or scientific explanations doesn't mean that I don't know what I am talking about, after all these years of observing others and trying things out.

As for me, I would never buy a XSPC top of any nature because its acrylic, but that's just me. It would give me a terminal heart attack. Shouldn't influence you in the least bit.

i don't see any turbulence in the second pump(acrylic makes me look at the flow-a good thing)...the xspc reservoir top is great...the inlet to the second pump just goes straight to the impeller...which i is see as great..if i could just buy a radar to check the speed of the flow...lol but thanks for your input.. the thing that bothers me is the second pump does overflow..which shouldn't happen if they are at the same speed..i think this is the bad thing ???????????????????????

yeah acrylic..i emailed xspc what the lowest temperatures this stuff can take...i haven't heard from them yet..

yeah the microres ...mine leaks..lol..refill the damn thing every day...(fixed it..the barb didn't have an o-ring) :up:
10-11-2008, 10:27 AM
G-UNIT91

Quote:

Originally Posted by HESmelaugh

I was wondering if it would be neatly exponential. Something like 0.5 deg less every time you double the flow-rates. But while you gain lots of cooling performance doubling a very low flowrate, it looks like it's not even going to be 0.5 for each doubling in higher flowrates... Can't tell for sure, though.

Yeah, that is kinda weird. But the whole thing doesn't make sense anyway. I always find it amusing, when someone on a (usually German) forum goes: "what's the point in getting a better pump? you hardly get better temperatures at all!". We're talking about liquid cooling PCs, it's not like spendign piles of money to get a nice, shiny liquid-cooling setup in your PC is the most significant thing you can do in your life. It's just for fun. So what, if someone wants flowrates that put the Niagra Falls to shame?

Really? In the shop where I found it, it's rated for 360l/h. The MCP355 is rated for 600l/h... I haven't ever tried the Sanso, though.

360l/h is refered of firstly 3m of prevalence....

this pump do 9m of prevalence......mcpc355, 4,7m....:D

You can put 4 EK Supreme in series...:eek:;):D
10-12-2008, 06:40 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-UNIT91

you have also tested ACS, it's true?:eek:;)

my friends they don't believe it

No I havn't sorry.
10-13-2008, 02:08 AM
G-UNIT91

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

No I havn't sorry.

:(but you've said that you had ..
10-13-2008, 08:38 AM
scamps

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcool

It's true, we Germans don't give a rat's ass about flow rates. And why should we, spending a lot of money for like 2-3C less with lots of additional noise is totally not worth it.
I run 2 EK Supremes, 2 big Rads, the HDDs and raidcon with around 60cm flow height and ~3m tubing length on a single Aquastream XT pump in one loop, that's probably not even 0,2gpm. Still I don't get more than 50C Coretemp on either CPU :p:

You want better temps? Run phase.. that's what I do, anyway. Water is for good yet silent cooling, it's not about 2GPM+ flowrates.

You people will realize that soon enough :p:

Oh yeah, really nice testing there.

:up:

@HESmelaugh
:clap: Grüße! Keep on low-flow!
10-13-2008, 09:33 AM
Waterlogged

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-UNIT91

:(but you've said that you had ..

No he didn't. I believe that what you understood as him saying yes was actually him talking with HESmelaugh about the EK Supreme orientation.
10-14-2008, 12:05 AM
scamps

What I do not understand at all:
For 1-2 K you guys are ready to accept a lot of additional noise of your system. If you do not worry about noise at all, why are you still using standard liquid cooling systems? Chillers would be the better choice I guess.

Like HESmelaugh stated most of the users here in Germany / Austria / Switzerland want to have a cold AND silent system. So chillers (if not in the cellar) are out of the question ...
If I read in Martin´s welldone reviews (thank you!) of "low" fans with 1350 rpm (my fans run with 600 rpm at the most) and I see those recommended pumps I worry about how you guys are able to suffer :eek:

Am I wrong?

p.s.: the most german cars with more than 400 HP are only built for the US-market ... :p:
10-14-2008, 02:11 AM
G-UNIT91

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

No he didn't. I believe that what you understood as him saying yes was actually him talking with HESmelaugh about the EK Supreme orientation.

I was referring to a Martin's PM ...

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