Swiftech Apogee GTZ vs D-Tek Fuzion V2 As-Shipped

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08-28-2008, 02:47 AM
WaterFlex

Wow! Great preview of these 2 super water blocks!
Guys, I need your help. U can see my liquid system i`m going to buy this week. I will use only 1 block in my system. And i`m going to swap my E3110 on Q9650 in future.
What is the best choice for me :
D-Tek FuZion v2
Aquacomputer cuplex XT di (G1/4")
Swiftech Apogee GTZ 775
Thanks in advance ;)
08-28-2008, 03:11 AM
Fir3^StorM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

While having a target flow rate is somewhere to start, the more I've been playing with this CPU block setup where I get the full picture, the more complex I'm seeing this pump heat issue becoming.

For each CPU block tested I'm recording flow rates, but also water and air temperatures. What I'm noticing is that even with the same pump, the more restrictive blocks have a lower water temperature. Even with the TFC 480, I'm seeing around .1C hotter water with the more free flowing blocks.

So in the end you might have higher flow rates, but also hotter water temperatures. The question then becomes, which is better or worse or does the end resulting performance on your other blocks better or worse.

In the end I think there is probably some sort of "Optimal" flow rate to shoot for and it's going to be a function of pump heat dump.

It's all splitting hairs at this point to the point it really doesn't make a difference in the real world, but I'm not entirely sure running a system at 2GPM with a known pump would be better than say undervolting the pump to 1 or 1.5GPM. I'm not really sure what to shoot for at this point but I know the differences are very small above 1GPM.

So, which would make the best bet?
a. GTZ resulting in approx. 1.1GPM and 0.1c colder water temp
b. FuZion resulting in approx. 1.5GPM and 0.1c warmer water temp?
The FuZion seems like a safer candidate.. although they're both good choices and top performers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alacheesu

It's not as simple as that. The more restriction already in your loop, the less of an impact replacing the FuZion with the GTZ will have in terms of flow reduction. Look at the PQ-curve of the pump, it's not linear. If you could do what you did, adding enough blocks would make the water flow the other way. :p:

http://www.overclock.net/gallery/dat.../Pump-D5-5.jpg
That curve? It's very close to be linear actually ;)
Btw, martin used DDC3.2+XSPC top in the GTZ-FuZion testing, didn't he? the flow rate decline with a D5 should be even bigger.
08-28-2008, 07:02 AM
WaterFlex

Any advices?
08-28-2008, 08:56 AM
nikhsub1

Sorry I've been absent... great job Martin as always. It's been too hot for me to test, actually I've done one run the the GTZ but with these high ambients, I won't do it. People are now beginning to understand the consequences of pump heat, this 'OMGWTFBBQ I NEED TEH UBER FLOWZRATEZ' is laughable. Sure more flow is always better, the caveat is that it comes with the cost of increased heat, which, 9 times out of 10 will send your temps backwards. I still can't believe that no one has made a PD pump or a screw pump for our application, would own all centrifugal pumps like $2 ho's ;)
08-28-2008, 09:16 AM
Xilikon

Great review, comforting to know that my Fuzion v2 is still a great purchase. I will just yank the quad mid-plate when I get a chance (I'll disassemble the whole loop soon for maintenance and cleanup).
08-28-2008, 09:26 AM
alacheesu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fir3^StorM

That curve? It's very close to be linear actually ;)
Btw, martin used DDC3.2+XSPC top in the GTZ-FuZion testing, didn't he? the flow rate decline with a D5 should be even bigger.

Wow, you're right, I was wrong. It is almost linear.

However, I'm still sure you cannot do the calculation the way you did. If you fire up up Martin's estimater, plug in the Fuzion v2 and MCP 655 you will have a flow rate of 2.01 GPM. Fuzion -> Supreme yields 1.22 GPM or 0.79 GPM less.

Adding a D-Tek GFX to the loop and doing the same yields a difference of only 0.34 GPM. (1.34 GPM to 1.00 GPM)

If you take into account that pressure drop in the blocks is a function of flow rate, the results make sense even if the pumps PQ-curve is linear. But I guess I could be wrong again. :shrug:

Anyway, if you added enough blocks to get the flowrate to less than 0.4 GPM and then replaced a GTZ with a Fuzion you would, by your example, have negative flowrate, which obviously makes no sense.
09-05-2008, 03:45 PM
jVIDIA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

And by popular demand, yes 3/4" compression fitting do fit, you just need to slip an extra o-ring over the threads to raise it a little.
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...ogeeGTZ-10.jpg

Does this also occours with the Koolance G 1/4" Compression Noozles ID 3/8 ?
09-16-2008, 07:24 AM
Lukee

Does the GTZ need to be lapped to help temps with C2Ds?
09-16-2008, 07:29 AM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by jVIDIA

Does this also occours with the Koolance G 1/4" Compression Noozles ID 3/8 ?

I don't know, I don't have any Koolance fittings yet, but I'm trying to get a few so I can check compatibility with all the types of popular fittings on all the blocks. It's really not a problem to use the extra o-ring, you can take one from the original shipped barbs. There is a very deep recess there that holds it in place nicely. Generally if the 3/4" OD type compressions fit, you should be able to fit just about any fitting. The extra o-ring is just needed to fill in that recessed slot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukee

Does the GTZ need to be lapped to help temps with C2Ds?

No, I wouldn't, it comes in very good condition as is. You especially wouldn't want to lap it while assembled, it has a significant bow that you could make worse by lapping.

Generally I don't lap waterblocks anymore unless you somehow scratched the base badly. I do lap the processor IHS though, that can be helpful especially if you IHS is slightly concaved. That does void your warranty though.

If a base gets a little oxidation from fingerprints etc. I just use paper towel and your favorite thermal compound as a polish. It works pretty well and helps embed good TIM material into the pores of the base.
09-16-2008, 07:45 AM
Lukee

I already have my CPU lapped and temps are a bit high. Trying to troubleshoot my temp problem. Thanks for your response.
09-16-2008, 07:53 AM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukee

I already have my CPU lapped and temps are a bit high. Trying to troubleshoot my temp problem. Thanks for your response.

Start a new thread about your problem and note some details, and if you have them, some photos of the setup.

There are lots of very talented folks on the forums that have gone through that one time or another. If you post the details in a new thread, alot of those folks will try to help out..:up:

If you can spell out the following that will help out alot:
Processor, Speed, Vcore
Radiator, fans, location of setup
TIM material used, application method.
Any other blocks in the loop and details about what they are cooling.
Pump, and any tubing details...etc.
09-16-2008, 08:15 AM
inCore

Great work as usual Martin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

I don't know, I don't have any Koolance fittings yet, but I'm trying to get a few so I can check compatibility with all the types of popular fittings on all the blocks.

I love the way every second post that I see by you contains something along the lines of "I'm going to test _____ as soon as I can.". Keep up the great work.
10-13-2008, 05:12 AM
NOFX

Nice review Martin!!!
Dtek Fusion v2 is good! ;)
10-13-2008, 06:38 AM
Boogerlad

Thanks Martin! I love your work. The graphs are so clean. Now i understand how much work you have to go through making all these charts. It's so detailed.
10-13-2008, 04:27 PM
systemviper

picked up the GTZ and the EK 790i blocks, I am excited to get them rocking, thanks for the info on the Apogee GTZ.
10-17-2008, 08:15 PM
louie101086

martin you left one thing unanswered which performs better on a dual core? my 2 cents: i think the fuzion would do better because the input barb is directly over the core
02-02-2009, 11:28 AM
MaadDaawg

I had been thinking about replacing my GTZ with a DD TDX on my i7 rig. Now I'm thinking I might just leave it alone
02-02-2009, 01:17 PM
aspire.comptech

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaadDaawg

I had been thinking about replacing my GTZ with a DD TDX on my i7 rig. Now I'm thinking I might just leave it alone

That would definitely be a downgrade if I ever saw one...
02-02-2009, 03:48 PM
Ol'Baditude

Quote:

Originally Posted by aspire.comptech

That would definitely be a downgrade if I ever saw one...

That's quite a statement, have you tried both of these blocks yourself?

But MadDawg, there is absolutely no reason to switch from what you have. In my experience the MC-TDX, while an excellent block, will not net you any advantage over the GTZ.

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