AMD 2200 T-bred Unlock UPDATE !!!

I have a possibly stupid question.

I'm reading that the system will not boot with a T-bred 2200+ and a KX7-333. I just bought both from NewEgg.com and my system WILL boot, but will not allow me to change the SoftMenu settings to 2200+. Well, I can set it, and it will boot up, but it will lock up once the computer gets to the "Welcome" screen in WinXP.

I was able to successfully install WinXP while having the CPU set to 1500+ in the BIOS.

So, I assume I have the Rev1.0 problem but wanted clarification. Will the system still allow booting if set to 2200+ IF I have Rev1.0? This KX7-333 also has BIOS version 9K.

I RMA'd the motherboard through Newegg and I'm wondering if I should do the CPU as well, as the system WILL boot up, just not if set to 2200+ in the BIOS.


Thank you for any assistance you can offer in advance,

Ed

PS. If there's any additional information that I can give to clarify, please let me know.

Very interesting thread. Here are responses from Abit regarding my inquiry about a so-called board mod being done to the Kr7A raid boards to get the Tbred to work. My first letter asked what specifics there were for the mod and whether the Palomino 2100+ was the last cpu that would work:

The response from Abit:

Subject:
Re: Kr7a raid v. 1.0
Date:
Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:06:46 -0700
From:
"JEFF WONG" <jeff@abit-usa.com>
To:
<XXXXXXXX>
References:
1




Dear Customer,
KR7A will not work with Athlon 2200+
we are not providing upgrades
Yes it will support 2100 + CPU with 9N BIOS.

Thank you very much.

Sincerely,

Jeff Wong



I then wrote back as follows:


Dear Mr. Wong:

Thank you for your reply. I have the Kr7a-Raid board verson 1.0. I was told to
RMA the board to Abit because it will not work with the Tbred xp2200+ and
higher. I have been given an RMA number, but if I understand your message, I
should not send the board in? Do they replace the Kr7a-Raid with a newer
version or a different board, such as the Kr7a-Raid 133? Does the KR7A-Raid 133
work with the Tbreds? My reason for asking is that many of us with the Kr7A
Raid have been told to mail the boards into RMA for "modification". Were you
aware of this?
Thank you,



I then got this response:



The reason I am not recommending the upgrade is because there is a $25.00
charge to the upgrade
and it only upgrade you to use 2200+ CPU and not any future CPU such as 2400
or 2600.

It is your choice to upgrade or not.

Thank you
Jeff



I have now dashed off this letter:



Thank you again. If I want to run the XP Tbreds, which of your motherboards will
support these cpus. You can understand I am disappointed in the lack of ability
to upgrade this fairly new mobo, and I know you are aware that the Abit download
site lists Bios 9N as supporting XP2200+ cpus in the Kr7A and Kr7A raid. Why is
this?


If I get a response I will post it!

Quote:

---

Originally posted by The Tinkerer

If I get a response I will post it!

---

Keep on top of them Tinkerer. I paid the $25 fee and had mine modded for the 2200. Although I had modded my CPU to do some overclocking, I put it back to its original state. I popped this T-bred in my old ECS K7S5A and it's BIOS worked fine with AMD specs. Too bad Abit can't comply with AMD specs. Maybe they will someday. :confused:
Mr. Wong's emails seem to have some half truths and their website offerring BIOS that works with T-Breds is also misleading without mobo mods.

OK we have someone who visited our forum after my inquiries to Abit tech support. Maybe we have a friend on the inside, but here's what he said to do: Cut the L1 #4 and #3 bridges. He says it will then boot with it's fixed multiplier (which is OK if you have a board that will OC the FSB well).. He also details the board mods that will allow the Tbred to work (and may be the board mods being done by abit for 25 dollars).

suggestion 2 is to bridge L3 #5, which we already know will allow the cpu to boot but with 12.5x multiplier max, not 13 and above.


Other suggestions include removing a resistor, or removing two transistors of some type I think.


Here's the thread where this was posted. Look just above the post that I am linking you to.


http://www.amdforums.com/showthread....92#post1219292

Finally have an idea why the older Abit needed the 5th L3 or AJ27 pins "workarounds to boot.

"Tinkerer" just posted a link to amdmd thread on subject where "Andromeda" posted the following re his examination of the Abit Mobo that needed the workarounds. Andromeda said that the 1st 4 L1s connected to transistors on the mobo thru pullup resistors, but the 5th, last L1 connected to "nothing"...yes nothing!!!!!

Now in and of itself, that's not significant 'cause the 8X Bit Value "HI" signal still goes to the Multiplier module by virtue of the signal circuit on the CPU itself...ie...you don't need help from the bios to run default Multipliers...systems run with open L1s. BUT, BUT, BUT...

IF Abit made no "Hardware" provision to over-ride/reset the 5th 8X BV, THEN also it's quite reasonable to assume they made no "Software" provision for the 5th 8X BV....read " Can't cope with 13X or higher Multipliers which have the 8X BV set HI"...and that lack of sofware could relate to some vital process in the post/boot operation....Bingo?????
John C.
PS to Tinkerer...
Andromeda said he connected a 5V pullup resistor to the AJ27 pin (8X BV, 5th L3) but that it didn't work. But that "optional" HI from mobo thru closed L1 is not needed, the CPU itself sets the 8X BV HI with its own signal circuit. What's needed is abilty to reset the 8X BV LO...AND...more important, have the
mobo/bios/?Northbridge? recognize the 8X BV during post/boot however and when ever required. You might relay this info to Andromeda. Thanks.

Thanks for the info Candjac,

I want to stress the fact that I only have a Duron 800 at the moment and I really would like someone to test this with a XP2200+.
I want an XP2600+ to work on it at stock speed.
So still it's strange that when this resistor is connected to AJ27, the Duron is locked again and runs at stock speed with no multiplier control although unlocked.

And the fact that all XP with multiplier >12.5 come with closed L1 bridges (so far), makes me believe strongly that my future XP2600+ will work this way. If of course, these XP's ship with L1 bridges open, my theory goes down the drain......

this quote is coming from the XP datasheet (with T-bred 681 specs)

Clock Multiplier
Selection (FID[3:0])
The chipset samples the FID[3:0] signals in a chipset-specific
manner from the processor and uses this information to
determine the correct serial initialization packet (SIP). The
chipset then sends the SIP information to the processor for
configuration of the AMD Athlon system bus for the clock
multiplier that determines the processor frequency indicated
by the FID[3:0] code. The SIP is sent to the processor using the
SIP protocol. This protocol uses the PROCRDY, CONNECT, and
CLKFWDRST signals, that are synchronous to SYSCLK.
For more information about FID[3:0], see ¡°FID[3:0] Pins¡± on
page 66.
Serial Initialization Packet (SIP) Protocol. Refer to AMD Athlon¢â
System Bus Specification, order# 21902 for details of the SIP
protocol.

and on page 66

FID[3:0] Pins FID[3] (Y3), FID[2] (Y1), FID[1] (W3), and FID[0] (W1) are the 4-bit processor clock-to-SYSCLK ratio.
Table 22 describes the encodings of the clock multipliers on
FID[3:0].
Table 22. FID[3:0] Clock Multiplier Encodings
FID[3:0]2 Processor Clock to SYSCLK Frequency Ratio

0000 11
0001 11.5
0010 12
0011 ¡Ã 12.5
0100 5
0101 5.5
0110 6
0111 6.5
1000 7
1001 7.5
1010 8
1011 8.5
1100 9
1101 9.5
1110 10
1111 10.5
Notes:
********1. All ratios greater than or equal to 12.5x have the same FID[3:0] code of 0011b, which causes
the SIP configuration for all ratios of 12.5x or greater to be the same.*********

So I think the bios does not need to know the 8X value bit.
Probably bios is only capable of controlling multipliers until 12.5. From there, the XP uses a logic coming from the processor itself, but it will need to know if the 8x value bit is high(so it can use it's own logic) or if it's low (so it can use normal logic, which refers to the 5th L3 mod)

Please give this one a good read..
and tanks

Sorry, forgot to mention, I have a KG7 MB

The XP2400 L1 bridges are all closed.:D

4th and 5th L3s are cut.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by andromeda
Thanks for the info Candjac,
Notes:
********1. All ratios greater than or equal to 12.5x have the same FID[3:0] code of 0011b, which causes
the SIP configuration for all ratios of 12.5x or greater to be the same.*********

So I think the bios does not need to know the 8X value bit.
Probably bios is only capable of controlling multipliers until 12.5. From there, the XP uses a logic coming from the processor itself, but it will need to know if the 8x value bit is high(so it can use it's own logic) or if it's low (so it can use normal logic, which refers to the 5th L3 mod)

Please give this one a good read..
and tanks

---

We are familiar with the Northbridge's involvement during the post/boot process, and believe that it may be part of the problem, if not all of the problem. The Northbridge sends data to cpu ( and system??) which probably sets "timings/wait states/similar" and if those are not co-ordinated with actual clocking/s then can see where systems might just "lockup".

Yes bios may only have reset capability thru 12.5X, but suppose Northbridge reads 13X as 5X because it's only reading the 1st 4 bits. Then suppose the timings it sends are way off and won't allow the 13X cpu to run??
We remember back in early Duron era when you had to mod the L6 (Multiplier "ID") bridges to "match or greater" what you had modded the L3/L4s to else the system would not post/boot. Now there are no bridges equiv to those L6s, we believe ot's done internally within the cpu...'cause the FID[3:0] pins are still there as are the references to that function during post/boot as you posted. Now add in some commuinications snafu between AMD and mobo/bios/Northbridge re specs.

Problem is "we all" just don't know how the bios and Northbridge talk to each other and how they process the signals from cpu. Just how does the Northbridge "know" to send 12.5X data for 13X and up when it only reads 4 bits which translate to 12.5X max??? Like it sees a 13X cpu as 5X, but the datasheet says it's going to send 12.5X data. Must be another piece of info to discriminate between 5X and 13X, but what???Maybe something as simple as the old read 5X Tbird as 14X...but now "reversed, to read 5X as 13X"???? But did mobo/bios/Northbridge mfrs get the message???

See our latest thread re "Won't change your life"...your post were key to anaysis.

Glad to see some new mobo/s handling 13X and up.
John C.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by TheDude
The XP2400 L1 bridges are all closed.:D
4th and 5th L3s are cut.

---

Right Dude, those L3 bridges control 4X and 8X Bit Values, enabled when "open", = 12X which is remapped to 15X which is default Multiplier for the 2400. Thanks for the check.

Hi Candjac,

do you have any idea about 2700+ unlocking? your quick response will be highly appreciated.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by QuadDamage
Hi Candjac,

do you have any idea about 2700+ unlocking? your quick response will be highly appreciated.

---

No, have not seen any pics to verify if L1s are closed like all other to-date Tbreds. Then there's the issue whether older mobos will have problems like with the 2200s which needed the 5th L3 to be closed...esp note since the 2700 seems to be 13X166MHz...where 13x has that 5th signal circuit set HI just like the 13.5X 2200. We'd use newer mobo like the KD7 reported to have no problems booting/running Tbreds.
John C.

ok, thanks for input. i'll try to see now whether L1 bridges are closed. i'll be back soon.

it looks like L1 bridges are not connected. in fact it looks very much the same as 2200+. btw, default multiplier is 13x (13x166)

http://www.theforumisdown.com/upload...700bridges.jpg

EDIT click on the image i posted copy it and paste into new browser window. sorry my image host doesn't work here.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by QuadDamage
it looks like L1 bridges are not connected. in fact it looks very much the same as 2200+. btw, default multiplier is 13x (13x166)

EDIT click on the image i posted copy it and paste into new browser window. sorry my image host doesn't work here.

---

L1 bridges are closed, the connection between the "dots" is made below the surface...sopen bridges are distinguished by the "laser burn marks" seen on other bridges like the Multiplier L3s.

Also re the Multiplier, the 3rd L3, 2X signal circuit, and 5th L3, 8X signal circuit are the only ones open/set HI by default, which makes the SUM of HIs = 10X, which is internally remapped to 13X, (AMD's Multiplier Code)...Check.

http://www.beachlink.com/candjac/index.htm Multiplier Code article explains the Code in detail.
John C.

ok, i've been playing around with 2700+ in fact i'm still playing. first of all ,all the multipliers seem to work on Epox KT400 mobo. however, only 13x works on KX7-333 using 9k BIOS. i've been able to push it to well over 2.3ghz at default voltage, able to run everything but 3d mark. epox has some issues. it will post at anything from 166fsb to 200, but is unable to make it to windows. ( i tried win xp, win2k and 4 diffrent hdd's) i got it working underclocked at 149fsb - it will not post at 150.... something is wrong here. sorry for typos, i'm back to work.

So far i've seen most of the talk about the 2200+ but i'm really wanting to setup my KG7 with a 2400+. My question is does the same L3 bridge trick work on those as well ?

Greetings:)
After reading this post, I've made a jump and bought myself a 2200+.
No way to find conductive pen here, so I bought a product called Ecolit340, electrically conductive silver resin, resistivity 0.01ohm/cm, temp resist from -60°C to +145°C.
I apply it on the last L5 bridge.
My system is:
ABIT AT7 max with bios supprto for 0.13 athlon xp, 760mb samsung ddr333, gf3, Terratec dmx6fire...

After the (long) installation, thanks to the alpha8045 (:p), I boot, and the boot found a atlhon xp1500+. I go to the bios, change to 11*166, reboot, and the system won't boot no more.
Clear cmos, reboot, but still same symptom.

The only way to reset the bios was to pull off the battery.
So now, I'm with a xp2200+ working like a 2200, indeed, 13.5*133, but not working as I would like it to work, ie fsb 166.

I DO have make a clean job with the L5 bridge, so I must admit I'm lost, either my mb do not properly check the cpu multiplier when the l5 bridge is closed, either... hum... sigh, I don't know.
Previously, my atlhon tbird 1.33 was working at 1420mhz with fsb166 without pbl.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kanedazan
Greetings:)
After reading this post, I've made a jump and bought myself a 2200+.
No way to find conductive pen here, so I bought a product called Ecolit340, electrically conductive silver resin, resistivity 0.01ohm/cm, temp resist from -60°C to +145°C.
I apply it on the last L5 bridge.
My system is:
ABIT AT7 max with bios supprto for 0.13 athlon xp, 760mb samsung ddr333, gf3, Terratec dmx6fire...

After the (long) installation, thanks to the alpha8045 (:p), I boot, and the boot found a atlhon xp1500+. I go to the bios, change to 11*166, reboot, and the system won't boot no more.
Clear cmos, reboot, but still same symptom.

The only way to reset the bios was to pull off the battery.
So now, I'm with a xp2200+ working like a 2200, indeed, 13.5*133, but not working as I would like it to work, ie fsb 166.

I DO have make a clean job with the L5 bridge, so I must admit I'm lost, either my mb do not properly check the cpu multiplier when the l5 bridge is closed, either... hum... sigh, I don't know.
Previously, my atlhon tbird 1.33 was working at 1420mhz with fsb166 without pbl.

---

This mod was found to fix a mobo/bios issue, it is NOT a cpu unlocking problem. New mobos DO NOT NEED this mod. If your mobo is fairly new, the mod might have done bad thing instaed of good. Suggest you research or remove the mod and try again.
John C.

So, my AT7 mobo is rev 1.0, and I have exactly the same pbl as MrIcee described. Bios reset and detect a xp1500+, refuse to boot very often.
The joint with the 5th L3 bridge seems to not work with the resin conductive paint I used (silver), and I found a conductive ink pen but it cost 45$, and I must admit it's a bit too too much. So what must I do, buy it and hope that with this pen, the L3 trick will work, or resign myself to have an unstable system?

I got a 2100+..will it work just the same?

2100+ is the old way.. all the L1 bridges need closing (unless you have a T-Bred 2100+) I just aquired a 2400+ hope the unlocking is the same as a 2200+...
--------------------------------
got a Vapochill (Classic)
AT7 Max2 (has a CAS latencey option of 1.5!?!?!)
1GB Corsair XMS 3200 C2
GF4 Ti4600 with peltier/water

12301 3DMarks with a 1700+ at default speeds

How do I know it's a T--Bred?

The easiest way to tell would be to look at the CPU core. If the markings(stepping & whatnot) are on the actual core, its a Palomino...if the core is blank & there is a black sticker on the wafer w/ the markings, then its a Thoroughbred :)

I don't recall a sticker on the chip...I'll check when I get home from work though...what's the diff between the two anyway? Also, I see you have your 1600 running at 2024MHZ...I myself was looking at getting some sort of water cooling as well..what kind of speeds do you think I could reach with a a 2400+?

Quote:

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Originally posted by InnocentR
I myself was looking at getting some sort of water cooling as well..what kind of speeds do you think I could reach with a a 2400+?

---

Depends on a lot of factors, maybe too many to say for sure... but it's safe to say 200 mhz gains are all most overclockers have been getting with water and the tbred cores...