ok well ifound a piece of rubber where it should not have been so i tookit out and i got it to hold a vac so if it does not lose the vac buy tomorow after work i will pressure test it then thanks for your help
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ok well ifound a piece of rubber where it should not have been so i tookit out and i got it to hold a vac so if it does not lose the vac buy tomorow after work i will pressure test it then thanks for your help
DIY separator before use and a few after,no safety device like a relief valve, notice the thicker flat plats bulging and the distortion of the tube on the sides. you decide how many psi it could have taken or seconds to catastrophic failure.
Plus another shot I found of cascade quality braze work. in cascades,interstage HX I didn't name names as my intent is not to embarrass anyone or pick a fight ,but a picture is Worth a thousand words in these cases,of what is not acceptable.
This work scares the Hell out of me :shakes: :shakes: :shakes:
Last pic: Pressure tested with 25bar -no leaks. If I would cleaned the brazings, you wouldn't mention here...
well i think that system is scary and i would not would to be around when it does fail i don't under stand why the person would not go with the right size copper tubing
scary, especially the reciever.
I admit, it scared me a bit too when I first saw it, but really most of the "bad look" comes from the uncleaned braze joints. If those were cleaned up I'm sure it'd look a lot better.
And if it was sufficiently pressure tested, then my other primary concern would also be abated. I've seen a lot of crimped tubing in professional jobs; sometimes you just can't get the right sized tubing/connectors that fit your needs, so you make due with what you can get. And test the hell out of it afterwards.
what does that have any thing to do with this thread walt? The bottles have an integral safety release valve in them.
starkiller42:
look at the bottle, it have make som progress in making bended ends :)
About safety,bottles have integral safety devices, what if people don't understand what drill size for what tap or the correct tap to make a seal and the threads are not cut deep enough to hold the pressure without stripping & blowing the valve off. The pressure of propane in the bottle is in it's saturated state, so go by P/T chart for themperature,ambiant temperature is what the bottles are designed for. a recovery machine could pump up to 525 psi.
Its about modifying or taking DIY one step too far past your knowdledge of ALL the FACTORS involved in building a safe device.
Ah yes good point walt thank you for answering my question in how it is relivant, I tend to expect any one messing with this to have don their home work, and sadely I tend to find it quite the opposit!
OK i have a A/c that i need to take the r22 out of (don't know if it has any in it) now this unit says that there is 14.29 ounce's in it can i put all of this r22 in to this tank
I'd say invest in a true tank, and get something way over the top, like a 20lber minimum. Overkill solves most problems. I agree with walt on the first pic, thats a horrible problem. Definitly cannot use huge diameter tubing in this application without banding it or the like or structurally reinforcing. The second pic should have been done neater and mroe planning would have been nice, but its most likely fine and just dirty. Reducers are always better to use, and easy to make, so I'd recommend them to all. (A set of swags solves most problems with reducers)
the tank will hold a pound of R-22 with plenty of head room to spare, If I recall corectly I calculated it to just about 1-1/4 pounds max or R-22.
you tell me,???Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffus
Also dose everyone know the working pressure and bursting pressure of the different sizes of tube you work with??????
What about DIY expansion & recovery Tanks ????? larger tank=more surface area(more square inches)= more pounds per square inch. bigger tanks=bigger bombs.
You Guys are going to give me a ulcer @ least use a pressure relief valve on any thing other than a single stage with a pure gas that pressure can be predicted. Also Buy tanks you know the pressure they can handle.
Some of the gases you guys are using are not commonly used as refrigerants and are extremely high pressure @ ambient temperatures.
I've said this before,many guys are over reaching your learning curve. I suggested you take a 8 to 40 hour class to get certified for recovery + be able to buy pure refrigerants and you would have been taught the basics, but our government screwed that up by providing a on-line open book test where you only have answer 50 question and get 80% correct with a open book.:shakes: defeated my intention for you guys to learn about refrigerants,specific gravity and pressure conversions.
But this is a International Forum, Take a good look how that copper tube distorted and the flats plates bulged. I actually applaud the person who posted that pic as most hide their worst mistakes & we know many have happened. I hope every time you consider making something that deals with pressure vessels, picture that DIY bulging distorted Copper Tube then
Please reconsider,I don't want anyone here hurt.:up: :up: :up:
This is not a game!!!! and there are no "do overs" or "second chances", even if its a serious injury,who wants there eyes blown or burnt out?
you are no longer wiring up 12volt DC fans, give pressure and these gases the respect they deserve. :) :) :)
Lol I personally find it pretty funny that this entire problem (I mean, as far as recovery cylinders go :p, safety and knowledge still need to be learned!) wouldn't exist of manufacturers produced a 5-or-10 lb cylinder. I think they could get a pretty decent sized group of enthusiasts to buy them, and even professionals who are tired of lugging huge tanks around. Sell them for $40 a pop and we're golden.
Sad thing is, we're probably still too small of a market. The only way a product like this would get released is if some enterprising individual decided to order a large number of them custom made. If that person was really smart, he'd also re-packed refrigerant in these smaller bottles, so an enthusiast can get more high-quality refrigerant than he'd ever need without spending $400.
**end rant
Ya 99% of the jobs I do I never need any thing over 5 pounds, the charging cylinder I use most is only 16oz I've got two, 1: R-22; 1: R134a with thoughs two I never need more with most the equipment I see, as for repairs most are usualy less then 2 pounds refrigerant. Realy wish they'd just make a mini-recovery cylinder!
Even with the charge cylinders I use the scale with them, nice to see how much is left :)
Hmmm, I wonder if we can convince one of the store owners around here to order 50 2lb. refrigerant tanks? If you can get the tank for $30, and better yet fill it with some really nice gas (cough r507 cough) ($400/25lbs*2Lbs= $32) and sell both for $80, I see a pretty decent profit margin!
Smaller tanks don't teach you how to safely handle high pressure gases,while they do fit this unique hobby/profession better for most.
Lets knock off the LOL when discussion serious matters.OK
smaller tanks still does not get around the laws about selling and recovering refrigerants. getting smaller tanks made is easy.the certifications could be more than the tanks unless it was a very large run. I really can't get a handle on oc'ing I original thought as faster cpu's became available the need to oc would decline as ocing started when you had a 20 hz chip and a green monochrome 12" monitor,No gui,only dos,long before windows.you guys today complain about slow.............
But is seems the spirit in all of us to be the fastest ,have the best and push boundaries ,thats in the human soul will never end. what ever we have,there is some who whats to one up it.so as I been watching XS grow so will the information age we now live in. thus the need for faster,better,cheaper parts that are dependable,who wouldn't like to have hardware that never fails,or software that never crashes???
yes hobbies have a cost,buy I see thousands spent on CPU's and mobo and memory.
Believe me if there was a simple answer I be the first to let you all know.
The only answer is to buy equipment and use it its its intended way, I'm the first guy who likes to build everything himself,but sometimes to comply with all the safety regulations ,It's cheaper to buy mass produced tanks and equipment.
One of the point many of you guys are missing is that many of YOU GUYS are going to be the next generation of engineers and designers. You must know start with the basics. Kinda ironic the richest man in the world quite college.
But a doubt MS & many large company's accept many applications from google engineers. But with that said you don't need a engineering degree to get a good job,just know your job and be the best at what you do. A lot of people from XS have proved that.
I wish I had the advantage to learn about fields I never knew existed when I was 12/14/16 before the Internet. You guys here at XS and on the net have the greatest advantage of all.
Knowledge,almost unlimited knowledge,so use it wisely. It's not about a old fashioned pissing contest,be above that!!!!!:up: don't wast your time or your life,it much to short.Set a project goal (realistic) and research and complete it,then move on to another,then another.Never stop moving or you will be left in someone else's Dust.
refrigerators and window AC units don't blow up,but add DIY parts,building muli-stage cascade way before your time ,add ethylene,argon ,r23 etc,etc and then the effect of your actions becomes apparent.
Rant off .................................................. .....for tonight;) :) :)
I know, I already mentioned that people must fully understand what they are doing. This just makes it easier and cheaper to do it right.Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
Personally, I think the most serious of subjects are the ones most in need of laughter. Humor keeps us interested, focused, and upbeat. So if you'll excuse me, *ahem*, LOL! There, now doesn't everyone feel better?Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
Of course not, but like I said before, they make it much cheaper an easier to do. With that in mind, I think we can both agree that a small commercial tank would promote the proper storage and recovery of refrigerants by amateurs. And distributing smaller quantities of refrigerants makes owning an otherwise very expensive refrigerant affordable. Sure taking a class/test may cost a lot more than this, but saving money is still saving money. I view it as no different than a super-expensive driver's ed class; just because I spent so much already doesn't mean that I want spend a whole lot more on a new $20,000 vehicle, no, I'm looking at a $3000 used vehicle.Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
Just my automatic rant-response kicking in here, ;).
I was wondering, to what extremes would one have to go to clean a used recovery cylinder as to use another type of refrigerant if the oils are incompatible.
is there a flushing procedure?
would this work: fill the tank half way with a flushing liquid, swish it around, pressurize the tank on the vapor side valve and remove the liquid/oil mix through the liquid side valve, repeat with clean (distilled) water, then pull a vacuum?
Use methonal alcohol, cleans and dehydrates. Then warm cyl and blow out with N2 or air out side then vac.
Company here flushes their coaxial exchangers with it to clean them out befor installing, seems to work great.