Onepagebook and his 3D benchies...

@massman
I am sorry, I didn't meant to be disrespectful. The thing with cheating today is, that there really is no way to tell for sure if it is a cheat or not. The cheaters we easily spot are morons, that don't understand a thing about benching. If someone who has a slght clue what is going on it is really not a big problem, after that it is up to us, to tell the difference.

And if most if not all the top benchers on the world, says that there is sth fishy with the result, that result needs an explanation. And not by someone unknown, by everyone, the same goes to hipro, kingpin, kyosen, king, shamino, oppainter...

About OPB, he shown us that he doesn't give a crap about XS, we could be dancing on our eyelashes and he wouldn't mind. But I think he caress about hwbot, and as I see, you give a damn, so it is more or less up to you, if you will certify his results or ask for an explanation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zbogorgon

@massman
I am sorry, I didn't meant to be disrespectful. The thing with cheating today is, that there really is no way to tell for sure if it is a cheat or not. The cheaters we easily spot are morons, that don't understand a thing about benching. If someone who has a slght clue what is going on it is really not a big problem, after that it is up to us, to tell the difference.

And if most if not all the top benchers on the world, says that there is sth fishy with the result, that result needs an explanation. And not by someone unknown, by everyone, the same goes to hipro, kingpin, kyosen, king, shamino, oppainter...

---

yes, all top benchers gave their opinions and they all said it isn't possible. I'll contact OPB as soon as possible about the 'core635' issue, but what if it's just a typing error? Will you believe him?

Would someone please PM me the exact accusations with the a short theory? I don't know which result is being challenged and which not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by massman

Let's assume that everyone who thinks OPB is a cheater is right. Who would be that stupid to cheat just by entering the gpu clocks wrong? That would be the most idiot way of cheating imho.

The core clock isn't correct, we know, but I don't think this is an example of cheating.

The 'hitting the wrong numbers' was not a statement by OPB, not at all, it was one way to explain the weird core clock.

@Xtacy: Xtreme tweaking is a part of extreme benching.

---

That does not explain the SLI results though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by massman

I really feel a bit lost now. When I first started with benchmarks, I never saw anyone being accused of cheating. Now we're about 4 years later and the word 'cheat' is said 'bout every month. I really like what I do at HWBot, because I have the opportunity to spot cheaters and ban/block them. HWBot is becoming a huge database with, thanks to the contest, even more and more older hardware, but somewhere down the road, this huge database is being used as a way to spot possible cheaters. I will ban every single cheater if there's proof that 100% correct, not if there are just a bunch of insinuations, correct or not.

p.s. your wise man was not at all pugnacious.

---

There have been accusations of cheating and people caught in the last 4 years, Coolaler got caught out by Shamino and Sami in 3dmark a couple ago for instance, since then there have been a few people but it has passed under your radar, the only difference this time is that the only recent accusations concern one person who is right at the top so everyone knows about it.

Unfortunately it takes a big slip up to be able to definitely say cheat, not something that is likely if people are just slipping a few percent in here and there. Conversly this means it is just as likely to be a tweak as it is only a few percent.

The problem with the tweak though is the longer it goes on without the tweak being shown then the more doubtful it becomes that there is such a tweak.

How many people on this thread would not show a tweak if it was causing such concern to all fellow benchers ? I would, but then again I am more interested in being respected by fellow benchers than being right at the top. It does seem to me that either $$ or points has the potential to warp what people want out of hardware benching.

But no one has proved anything yet and this small percentage gain is equally as likely at this point to be through an unknown tweak than bug or cheating.Unless of course there is more evidence one way or another out there?

It will only take one thing to quash this completely, full details of the settings run and tweaks done that can be replicated by others. Then a lot of people can eat humble pie, surely the prospect of that is worth giving out the tweak all on it's own ;)

Regards

Andy

I am not that much into 3D benches, but as I figured out, his 8800GTX SLI result is more problematic, cause many said it cannot be done with stated CPU speed, and that is not just a typo.
But what I am saying is that his SPi 1M SuperPi really needs a lot of explanations

i am with zbogorgon from the beginnig.
what he says and what he shows is explaning everything for me.

we need an explanation.

and as zbogorgon says hwbot now has the most important duty for future of the overclocking. if scores are ceritified before getting a full explanation of what is done then overcloking is over. this is that simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zbogorgon

I am not that much into 3D benches, but as I figured out, his 8800GTX SLI result is more problematic, cause many said it cannot be done with stated CPU speed, and that is not just a typo.
But what I am saying is that his SPi 1M SuperPi really needs a lot of explanations

---

What kind of explanation?

He made a 1h13min video of him benching, from the boot-up till the pifast and (3x) the superpi 2M record. The Pifast WR was recently broken by roro.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kromosto

and as zbogorgon says hwbot now has the most important duty for future of the overclocking. if scores are ceritified before getting a full explanation of what is done then overcloking is over. this is that simple.

---

If you're willing to pay us so we can live from this job and can spend 10 hours a day checking out every result, then I would be able to do that.

BUT, we have that much faith in the benchmark community that we won't question results if we have enough verification, like futuremark link, screenshot, and the score isn't suspicious. If it turns out to be suspicious, we have the 'report to moderator' button ;).

I didn't see any video, but noone is talking about Spi 2M, we are talking about Spi 1M with ratio below 50000 and CPU speed well over 5.2GHz.

from boot, with stopwatch or sth, or he explains tweaks to sb else that can replicate them.

Yeah I gotta agree...without some osrt of standard so that we can decently compare what's going on...some sort of info that explains why one score is better than the other...keeping track of scores is pointless.


I'd really like to see posts with scores like this saying "Look at what I did! Here's how...." and once the score has been duplicated, it can be confirmed as a legit score. Without confirmation, any score is subject to being a cheat, as long as it falls outside the norm.

I'd like to see benching just be benching, and everyone's attitude's left at the door. While I kinda lost a bit of respect for OPB due to these allegations, zbo has lost more from me merely by flogging a dead horse. OPB got kudos from me last time until he posted...

Attitude and personal feelings are getting in the way here. I know issues such as this it's hard to stay impartial, but really...my kids, aged 3 and 5, fight like this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zbogorgon

I didn't see any video, but noone is talking about Spi 2M, we are talking about Spi 1M with ratio below 50000 and CPU speed well over 5.2GHz.

from boot, with stopwatch or sth, or, he explains tweaks to sb else that can replicate them.

---

Some other benchers had a sub50k ratio also and they are not questioned at all. In the same vid he had a run of 9.094 (due to the motherboard, which had problems to run above 1.9v). He explaned everything he single thing he did.

and where is that video?

who has a ratio below 50k with CPU speeds over 5GHz?

9.094s itself is quite possible, but what CPU speed?

if he did it with CPU speed 5435MHz or less and you personally seen the video?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by massman

What kind of explanation?

He made a 1h13min video of him benching, from the boot-up till the pifast and (3x) the superpi 2M record. The Pifast WR was recently broken by roro.

---

I think know you got it, all PI broken except 1M

Long ago when the record was broken I was not evolved into benching but what I knew at that time that OPB system was faster by all means than anybody else so logically easy WR (check the old thread and you will find that I was defending him) after that you take a deep look you find that the result is odd it can’t be that all OCs noobs and he is the only guy that knows how to bench. So either he knows something big and he should share it or just another fake. And you know faking is easier that OCing

:) if i have enough money why not.

what i am saying is hwbot is reponsible for opb's recent scores. they can be true or cheat but these scores shows us an important thing. we have a very big hole in our world. this is because our way of thinking becomes old. as the time goes everything changes like crimes as a best example so we made new laws for new crimes. now our overcloking community laws are getting older and older and opb's scores show us that we have to make new laws we have to draw our borders again. as because this is the first time we see our rules and laws that are not written are not enough anymore, we dont know what to do. we are talking figthing about opb some says he is a cheater some says he is the best but we have to see the big picture as soon as possible. this is not about opb only this is about the future of the overcloking so as i said hwbot has the responsibility of opb's recent scores but all the overcloking community has the responsibility to define the new rules make the new laws. if we cant begin this quickly then overcloking is really going to be over. if we cant define our new rules then there will be lots of scores like ops's recent scores everyone gonna believe what they wanted to believe and this is will be the end.

This deserves emphasis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hipro5

READ WELL the whole post before start posting and compare....Use your mind and don't let others to use it for you....

---

Um, those in the right should not care what others think, as they are right. To not even defend that your ARE right, is, in it's ommision, an admission of guilt.

OPB HAS helped lots. Cannot deny that. But now he has stopped. why?

But also, this can be taken as someone trying to force OPB's hand, which, i tihnk may not be a bad idea. He should help the community by simply just squashing all of this crap.:fact: Then there would be no quesiton in anyone's mind. Instead, he says "too bad".

@lawrywild: { friendly as always }

1) OPB is not the only person out there knowing how to tweak RAM good ( sigh )

2) Finding a software tweak has nothing to do with your skills on pure overclocking ( hardware oc & modding skills ) [ knowing how a GPU works, and mostly its drivers helps, but not always ].
For example someone decides to take 2 days of his life in "playing" with Windows Registry, and luckily he finds out a tweak.Does this make him the best overclocker ? Nope.
Would giving the tweak to someone give him the ability & skills to take down a WR ( or even a great score ) ?
And after all, this is why the overclocking community & forums like this one are, for friendly competition & knowledge sharing.

3) Writing guides on Hardware or Software can be done by several people...or should I say numerous.
I've written a guide on kick-boxing techniques in the past, does that make me a kick-boxing champion ? ( or even a "top 20" member ? )

4) Diabolically, someone with a...master plan could've easily taken advantage of being nice at first, sharing information, tips & guides, and then use 'em for "coverage".
for example "I've published some overclocking guides, optimization & tweak guides on overclocking, and helped a lot of people on the net in the past.Now here comes the master plan.I use a "*****" to get some top scores and post 'em.Having published guides, and stuff make my scores valid & 100% trustworthy ? he he, I don't think so.

And after all, we're talking about a more than negligible margin on same/less clocks.

Ending this post...when you've got lots of people accusing you of cheating /or having serious doubts on your scores, what do you do:
a) Remain silent, get lost, and let them doubt your scores & fame
b) Act, show enough proof & go on walking proudly, like you should be ?

After two warnings after this thread was re-opened from Kunaak and DDTung and a message from me that I wanted just facts and figures and insights gained from experience or well thought out reasoning we seemingly have people who either cannot read or do not care about those requests.

Feel free lawrywild to open up a thread on Speak freely or Computer related open discussion about this and I will be more than happy in great length to comment on your points as will others, but desist from threadcrapping because quite frankly in this thread you are adding nothing. That goes for everyone else as well.

Thanks

Andy

Thread crapping?

Erm what?

This is just ridiculous, someone actually posts something besides OMFG HE'S A BLATANT CHEATER and you delete the posts saying I'm thread crapping?

This is like some kind of dictatorship, getting rid of anyone that stands in your way.. (and not you personally, this is most of XS)

edit: and no I won't post in speak freely, why didn't you move my posts there instead of deleting what I typed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lawrywild

Thread crapping?

Erm what?

This is just ridiculous, someone actually posts something besides OMFG HE'S A BLATANT CHEATER and you delete the posts saying I'm thread crapping?

This is like some kind of dictatorship, getting rid of anyone that stands in your way.. (and not you personally, this is most of XS)

edit: and no I won't post in speak freely, why didn't you move my posts there instead of deleting what I typed

---

The rules were set out at the start. People have defended OPB and not got deleted, read the thread again if you want proof. You however just went on a rant about "backstabbing". This sort of post does not follow the guidelines laid out.

As I said, your comments are better suited for other parts of the forum and not this thread and I am sure people will still be interested. I did not move them there as that should be your choice, but you have no choice on this thread if you wish to continue doing the same, those are the rules.

Or you can PM me. I love receiving PM's from disgruntled parties as we beat things out and come to some common ground.

Regards

Andy

In the last thread concerning OPB and SPi tweaks the following idea was proposed but it got lost in flaming:

For OPB to set the record straight he needs to inform an unbiased party of what tweak/s he has used to obtain his scores. This way he is not releasing his tweak to the benching masses so he can still have the upper edge but also can put to rest the cheating alligations and have a great time making everyone eat humble pie. From this thread I think a good person to be told is massman as he is an anti-cheat moderator at hwbot, so clearly doesn't want to see cheating occuring, but at the same time he has not taken sides in this argument.

Does this sound like a reasonable idea? as I think it's clear opb isn't going to speak now no-matter how he got his score/s and people will be free to draw whatever conclusions they want.

:toast:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by melymel2789

In the last thread concerning OPB and SPi tweaks the following idea was proposed but it got lost in flaming:

For OPB to set the record straight he needs to inform an unbiased party of what tweak/s he has used to obtain his scores. This way he is not releasing his tweak to the benching masses so he can still have the upper edge but also can put to rest the cheating alligations and have a great time making everyone eat humble pie. From this thread I think a good person to be told is massman as he is an anti-cheat moderator at hwbot, so clearly doesn't want to see cheating occuring, but at the same time he has not taken sides in this argument.

Does this sound like a reasonable idea? as I think it's clear opb isn't going to speak now no-matter how he got his score/s and people will be free to draw whatever conclusions they want.

:toast:

---

If memory serves me correctly. HwBot crew was given 4+ hours of him benching with ln2 from boot to tweak to runs. If you read back a page or two you would see massman already posted that. I believe he also sent them the tweaks as well. Like mass said there was a video of him with a Pi 1m at 9.084 or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cpt.Planet

If memory serves me correctly. HwBot crew was given 4+ hours of him benching with ln2 from boot to tweak to runs. If you read back a page or two you would see massman already posted that. I believe he also sent them the tweaks as well. Like mass said there was a video of him with a Pi 1m at 9.084 or something.

---

I read his posts but I wasn't sure if that was a general video posted or one for verification purposes. If what you have said is true can/has a member of the hwbot crew who was given access to the tweak confirm they do enhance scores legitamately to the level shown by opb? :toast:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by melymel2789

I read his posts but I wasn't sure if that was a general video posted or one for verification purposes. If what you have said is true can/has a member of the hwbot crew who was given access to the tweak confirm they do enhance scores legitamately to the level shown by opb? :toast:

---

I believe he had given massman or fredrick acess to the tweaks. It was only posted for hwbot and a few others to see due to bandwidth.