ATI`s R600 News Thread

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10-13-2006, 02:22 AM
maxxxxel

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35062

R600 has an external 512 memory bus

Not internal only like the R580/ 520

THE UP AND COMING R600 will have a real 512 bit memory controller. Unlike its predecessors which had an internal 512 ring memory bus, the R600 will have it externally as well.
This means that the packaging of the chip will be extremely expensive. The wider memory bus you use the more pins you need in your chip package.

If the 512 memory ring turns to be the real thing, we are talking about 128 GB/s of memory bandwidth with GDDR4 clocked at 2000MHz. We also learned that the R600 may use memory faster than 2000MHz as it will be available by Q1. If ATI keeps pushing the chip we might get even faster GDDR4 chips at production time.

Even the PCB of the R600 will be super complicated, as you need a lot of wires to make 512 bit memory to work. Overall it has the potential to beat Nvidia's G80, but yet again it will come at least three months after Nvidia. The G80's memory works at 384 bit as Nvidia pretty much dis-unified everything in G80 from shaders to memory controllers. Nvidia likes to make rules and probably could not get more than 384 bit wide controller in the chip, as the G80 is still a 90 nanometre chip.

It’s a shame that we will need to wait at least until February to see it in action. µ
10-13-2006, 02:31 AM
perkam

I don't care if the R600 has a 1024-bit memory bus with octa-channel gddr5 memory running at 5ghz...if its not scalable (like we know G80 isn't) to a mainstream offering, I'm not going to be impressed.

Perkam
10-13-2006, 02:38 AM
ownage

This cards will probably be really expensive, and because ATI only wants to allow software voltage control on the high-end cards, the mid-range r600 cards won't be that a good buy.
In the GF6 period you could buy an 6800LE and clock/unlock to Ultra performance, (when 128mb whas still enough).
I think its important for ATI to make some really nice mid-range cards and not only expensive 500 dollar cards at launch.
10-13-2006, 04:29 AM
Sanborn

Awesome....
10-13-2006, 04:54 AM
perkam

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownage

This cards will probably be really expensive, and because ATI only wants to allow software voltage control on the high-end cards, the mid-range r600 cards won't be that a good buy.
In the GF6 period you could buy an 6800LE and clock/unlock to Ultra performance, (when 128mb whas still enough).
I think its important for ATI to make some really nice mid-range cards and not only expensive 500 dollar cards at launch.

You must've not had breakfast or something...the 7600GT was as fast or faster than the 6800Ultra, and close to 7900GT performance when properly OCed...Mainstream cards like the 7600GT/X1650XT get/will get more than 7k stock in 05...with cards like the X1900GT and 7900GS being closer to 10k...imagine what the nex gen mainstream of DX10 will bring...

Perkam
10-13-2006, 05:49 AM
fhpchris

I can tell you that a x1950xtx gets alot more than 10k stock ;)
10-13-2006, 05:56 AM
krille

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

You must've not had breakfast or something...the 7600GT was as fast or faster than the 6800Ultra, and close to 7900GT performance when properly OCed...Mainstream cards like the 7600GT/X1650XT get/will get more than 7k stock in 05...with cards like the X1900GT and 7900GS being closer to 10k...imagine what the nex gen mainstream of DX10 will bring...

Perkam

I thought DX10 wouldn't hit mainstream until the generation after the next? Also, talk up to this point has been repeatedly hinting at the possibility of the upcoming DX10 kings not being able to batter the contemporary DX9 ones in DX9 situations. As it's turned out these last few weeks, it would seem they probably will be better in DX9 too, but at the cost of extreme power consumption due to massive increases in transistor count, die sizes, clockspeeds and memory-wise improved clockspeeds and widened buses. However, I don't think we can count on the same for mainstream, not even sure if it's something to wish for. And that's also the reason S3 Graphics aims at a mainstream DX10 part, as there wasn't really supposed to be much competition in the mainstream DX10 market, if at all. Haven't stayed update for a while though, so things may have changed?

Talking against this though, is the possibility of 256-bit mainstream cards (not sure how likely this is though), seeing as high-end may move on to 384-bit or even 512-bit(!).

512-bit finally! Seeing as how expensive the 512-bit solution, for extra bandwidth, is supposed to be, this should say something about the performance of the R600. As they otherwise, if possible, surely would have made cheaper improvements. (Clocked those memory chips a little higher.)

Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

~ Kris

Edit: LOL, I'm all wrong it seems
Mainstream Nvidia DirectX 10 to arrive in spring

And it may have been SiS or XGI and not S3. I'm not sure on that one.
10-13-2006, 07:13 AM
IvanAndreevich

http://theinq.com/default.aspx?article=35062

1GB cards with 512-bit memory bus. Holy :banana::banana::banana::banana:?!
10-13-2006, 07:56 AM
BlackX

Cant say nothing clever... just :eek:
10-13-2006, 08:13 AM
krille

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanAndreevich

http://theinq.com/default.aspx?article=35062

1GB cards with 512-bit memory bus. Holy :banana::banana::banana::banana:?!

Look at the top of this very page, mate.

And where in there do you see anything about 1GB? I mean, a 1GB R600 version is not improbable or anything (contrary the opposite would be a real let down), but the article doesn't even remotely imply it? Or do you mean there'll only be 64MB 32-bit GDDR4 memory ICs available, and thus indirectly the article's suggesting that 1GB vram will be willingly or not forced upon 512-bit cards?

~ Kris
10-13-2006, 12:28 PM
JoeBar

ATI's next gen seems truly a beast. But unless i see some real wworld pics, i take them with a grain of salt.
In my opinion NV won't let ATI win the match like the 9800 days... ;)
10-13-2006, 04:02 PM
turtle

Quote:

Originally Posted by DilTech

If it's 64 anything, it's 64 unified shaders.

True. There isn't pipes...But there is shader arrays. Xenos is 4 (3 active) arrays of 16 alus.

Hypothesis:
R600 probably follows a similar scheme. What that is, well, that's the mystery. Is it 4x16 equaling 64 alus? I hope not. 4x24? Maybe. 4x32? Hope so. Who the hell knows. How will the architecture scale from Bum-Pele is the question I wonder...by alus or by arrays? I'm going to go with 4 arrays for Pele, 3 for Laka, 2 for Shaka, and 1 for Bum based on no evidence what so ever other than it sounds feasible, although it may be something more along the lines of 4x? = XT, 3x? = pro/GT, etc etc.

Ex: 4x24 = x2800xt
3x24 = x2800gt
4x16 = x2600xt
3x16 = x2600pro

Hopefully we get more hard info soon.
10-13-2006, 04:56 PM
DilTech

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtle

True. There isn't pipes...But there is shader arrays. Xenos is 4 (3 active) arrays of 16 alus.

Hypothesis:
R600 probably follows a similar scheme. What that is, well, that's the mystery. Is it 4x16 equaling 64 alus? I hope not. 4x24? Maybe. 4x32? Hope so. Who the hell knows. How will the architecture scale from Bum-Pele is the question I wonder...by alus or by arrays? I'm going to go with 4 arrays for Pele, 3 for Laka, 2 for Shaka, and 1 for Bum based on no evidence what so ever other than it sounds feasible, although it may be something more along the lines of 4x? = XT, 3x? = pro/GT, etc etc.

Ex: 4x24 = x2800xt
3x24 = x2800gt
4x16 = x2600xt
3x16 = x2600pro

Hopefully we get more hard info soon.

This, plus the run around we get when it comes to upcoming specs on graphics cards that are more than a month away, is why we honestly can only speculate.

Either way, I do know that ATi flat out said their personal hobby while working is to call the inquirer and tell them fake stories to see if they'll post them. It's their past-time. I believe it was on chile hardware, I'll post back with the link as soon as I find it.
10-13-2006, 05:00 PM
nn_step

and lets not forget ATi has the ability to surprise.. (remembers 9700 :D )
This upcoming card is gonna be killer, heck the X1950XT competes with TWO nVidia cards in SLi. I just wish they would fix their Driver issues
10-13-2006, 05:04 PM
DilTech

Oh, I agree this card will be NO slouch nn, there's no denying that... It's a good time to be a fan of either camp...

Anyway, as promised, here's the link.
http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools

Quote:

The rumor about 32 and 24 pipelines really had something? The grafico chip R520 was thought at first like an architecture of 4 pixel processors that can process 4 pixels simultaneously each one? (What we know traditionally like 16 pipelines)

R520 always was thought as it is it at the moment. You do not create everything what you read in The Inquirer, half of which speaks Fudo (Fuad Abazovic) is truth, other single half is sweepings. The important thing is knowledge that starts off is truth and that starts off is single sweepings. Our engineers when they estan boring, fish I telephone and call to Fuad to reir themselves awhile of, for diversion of us always publishes all the stupidities that we pruned to say to him. It is our pastime.

Don't mind the rough translation... It was from during the period where the R580 rumors were everywhere. This is why the inquirer's stories sometimes just sound retarded or far fetched. Companies call them with fake news for FUN!
10-13-2006, 05:29 PM
metro.cl

If this specs are true, price must be really high.

from r520 i learned to not buy every wonderfull spec someone tells, hope this is true couse performance should be awsome.
10-13-2006, 09:00 PM
Turtle 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

and lets not forget ATi has the ability to surprise.. (remembers 9700 :D )
This upcoming card is gonna be killer, heck the X1950XT competes with TWO nVidia cards in SLi. I just wish they would fix their Driver issues

I been using ATI since the 9700 pro. I have to confess you have me confused. What is the driver issue's you are referring to . I have never had an issue. Please explain.

As for the R600 I might buy one I not sure . If I do it will be the last ATI card I ever buy. But might wait for the refresh. Since I have decided to wait for Wolfdale or Yorkfield. and DDR3. My wife bought my ARC-1220 raid controller. and raptor HD, from me. But will wait till vista release to install and replace the Bad axe M/B with one that will allow usage of the raid card. along with XF.

Things are moving way to fast right now.

I was gaming online with wifes C2D 6800 with XF earlier tonight. It is one hell of an experience on a 24" lcd. I might say tho going from my dothan gamer using a 20" lcd to the C2D using a 24" LCD takes a bit of getting use to.

These new cards coming from NV & ATI are going to be unbelieveable on a 30" LCD.
10-13-2006, 09:04 PM
Turtle 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by metro.cl

If this specs are true, price must be really high.

from r520 i learned to not buy every wonderfull spec someone tells, hope this is true couse performance should be awsome.

Ya . I am not going to bite on speculation on either the G80 or the R600. I really believed the R520 was going to be a 32 pipe card. :slap:
10-14-2006, 04:45 AM
Hicks

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

and lets not forget ATi has the ability to surprise.. (remembers 9700 :D )
This upcoming card is gonna be killer, heck the X1950XT competes with TWO nVidia cards in SLi. I just wish they would fix their Driver issues

What driver issues would be these then?
10-14-2006, 05:10 AM
Helmore

He might be talking about the lack of support for Linux distibutions, as he is using Linux and will certainly appreciate support for his OS.
10-14-2006, 07:20 AM
DilTech

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helmore

He might be talking about the lack of support for Linux distibutions, as he is using Linux and will certainly appreciate support for his OS.

QFT, in linux generally a single mid-range NVidia card can beat out ATi crossfire, and that's if you can get CF working in linux. It's pretty obvious something isn't right about that.
10-14-2006, 07:36 AM
phi|os

Quote:

Originally Posted by DilTech

QFT, in linux generally a single mid-range NVidia card can beat out ATi crossfire, and that's if you can get CF working in linux. It's pretty obvious something isn't right about that.

Probably the main reason I've been holding off on Linux, which is dumb. I just don't feel like dealing with that mess.

Hey, no matter what, we're all gonna be paying $600 dollars for the best GPU. I'll see ya there:banana:
10-14-2006, 02:08 PM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle 1

I been using ATI since the 9700 pro. I have to confess you have me confused. What is the driver issue's you are referring to . I have never had an issue. Please explain.

As for the R600 I might buy one I not sure . If I do it will be the last ATI card I ever buy. But might wait for the refresh. Since I have decided to wait for Wolfdale or Yorkfield. and DDR3. My wife bought my ARC-1220 raid controller. and raptor HD, from me. But will wait till vista release to install and replace the Bad axe M/B with one that will allow usage of the raid card. along with XF.

Things are moving way to fast right now.

I was gaming online with wifes C2D 6800 with XF earlier tonight. It is one hell of an experience on a 24" lcd. I might say tho going from my dothan gamer using a 20" lcd to the C2D using a 24" LCD takes a bit of getting use to.

These new cards coming from NV & ATI are going to be unbelieveable on a 30" LCD.

There are more OS's in this world than just M$'s
now I know they are working hard to improve this, but it'll be a few years before they get up to grade
10-15-2006, 01:38 AM
onewingedangel

but dx use is 95% of the cards market, and for windows they can optimise the drivers for the individual open gl games. Whilst this isn't ideal, it works for the vast majority of people out there who use the cards as gaming cards, and therefore use windows.

ATi have been saying for years that they will boost open GL non game performance, but until ATi get serious about competing with nvidia on workstation level cards, and boost their FireGL driver staff, it's not going to happen. Nvidia consistantly invest far more than ATi at this target market which benefits their open GL performance. Maybe now that ATi is part of AMD they'll concentrate more on this market, considering how much amd loves the workstation and professional market (nice markups), and would love to apply that to their gpu's as well.
10-15-2006, 01:57 AM
flopper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle 1

I been using ATI since the 9700 pro. I have to confess you have me confused. What is the driver issue's you are referring to . I have never had an issue. Please explain.

I was gaming online with wifes C2D 6800 with XF earlier tonight. It is one hell of an experience on a 24" lcd. I might say tho going from my dothan gamer using a 20" lcd to the C2D using a 24" LCD takes a bit of getting use to.

These new cards coming from NV & ATI are going to be unbelieveable on a 30" LCD.

no issues here either with drivers from ati.
everytime it been soemthing, its my doing soemthing bad ;)

How is the lcd at 24 different in experience playing than 20?
Curious since I use a 20 atm and been thinking to get a good 24.

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