Isn't everything we do overkill anyways? :D .....Quote:
Originally Posted by coolingbug
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Isn't everything we do overkill anyways? :D .....Quote:
Originally Posted by coolingbug
Does the polycold have an expansion tank?
A 1/5hp compressor can't move as much as a 1hp compressor, thats just plain numbers.Quote:
Think again ........Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
Ha you could do a smaller 2stage autocascade tube with a 1/5hp compressor. Its just your not going to have the capacity for a large load.
Thanks for the info :wth: But I never said it could ;) Just sit tight and wait.......Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
s7' I know of the same diagram I bleeive for the 1/5hp compresor as you do.
I'm not talking about a diagram ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
O RLY?
*someone post the image*
Here's a little update: Cryotek has the unit fired up and testing currently @ -115C NO ARGON. We'll be playing with the argon charge as necessitated (is that even a word?:p: ) by the loads on the heads. The unit should be up in full swing by tomorrow :woot:
Don't put me in that group Steven I"ve always welcomed him and his brain :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
Hope you find a way to mount those heads :eek: 2nd card clocks like a beast.:banana:
Here's max 3d it will do on stock air/voltage..
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/6...09604zr.th.jpg
Here's max it'll run 3d w/o artifacts but starts to throttle at dragon.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5...09700xm.th.jpg
Heading out to PO now. :D
First test run.
No argon in the charge.
Load on one head (I only have 1 test cell built. I need another heater.)
Two heads cooling
Load Inlet head out
0 w -112c -112c -112c 12/135
50 w -110c -110c -110c 15/140
100 w -107c -107c -107c 18/150
150 w -103c -103c -103c 20/170
200 w - 92c - 81c - 92c 23/185
I think I’m reaching the limits of the cold head.
I’m shutting it down and adding some argon.
Here’s my test rig:
nice, hows it made?
the head doesn't seem to like 200w :(
nice temps at 150w though :woot:
It’s a 2” x 2” x ¼” copper plate with a ½” tube brazed to the backside. Big fillets. The ½” tube was then split and the heater (3/8” od) slipped inside. The ½” tube was pinched and formed around the heater for good heat transfer. The 2” x 2” x ¼” copper plate was surfaced after brazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Revv23
Here it is attached::D
Second test run.
Two heads cooling.
Load cell on one head.
Added 10 psi argon.
Load Inlet head out
0 w -128c -128c -128c 18/155
50 w -121c -117c -117c 20/170
100 w -117c -112c -110c 20/180
150 w -113c -107c -107c 20/195
Looks like a captube adjustment and a slight change in the blend are in order . Not bad for a first try. :banana:
Never did include you in that group Ron :toast: . Hey, I don't have any problems with the others' opinions. Everyone's entitled to their own. I just wanted Cryo-tek to get as fair a shot as anyone else here on these forums. I've got a video as well :D If anyone can host a 25meg file of the pulldown of the unit, I'll be happy to upload it.Quote:
Originally Posted by runmc
Show me a true 150W heatload ;) IIRC, a FX60 @ 1.65 loaded will give ~150-160W true heatload. For comparison, these new Intel Yonahs output ~30-50W MAX loaded ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzimark
nice 10c drop with argon
thanks for the details on the heatload
never know when you want to mess with a smithfield :wth:Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
I've got a p4 650 here for some testing :D BTW...I don't think you'll ever see me with a Smithfield :PQuote:
Originally Posted by ozzimark
Someone get this guy hosting space. quick.Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
Nice temps guys. Keep up the good work.
I can host the file for a little bit, but not to long thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
Good stuff... as long as you can start feeling cold forming from bottom side and not from side on your load tester (well... bottom just because when you mount the thing, it squeezes the insulation somewhat... which lowers insulating property)... ... I might be bit off in this since I am not used to -100c lol... the load is going to be similar if not same as what I play with. And stephen's estimate of fx-60 around the voltage is pretty accurate. I had one that would 150w at that volt while another one that does only 130w...
I can host it for you. Drop me a PM...Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
Geez your still not happy with it Cryo? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by cryo-tek
[QUOTE=cryo-tek]
...................
150 w -113c -107c -107c 20/195
..............
QUOTE]
hi,
Cryo man thank u for stopping by! experts in this domain always needed!
got few questions:
whats the ''20/195'' ?
U put gas by presure dont u have a ''weighter''?
cap lines lengt, plssssssssssss!!!!
regards,
q
PS::toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: nice temps!
20/195 is prolly the pressure in PSI
I always wondered what it looked like INSIDE :DQuote:
Originally Posted by cryo-tek
damn thats cold, is argon in a liquid state in the tanks you get for welding?
No, ever heard something about critical temp/pressure?Quote:
Originally Posted by ak_47_boy
lol you don't want to be close to that bottle:D
-185,7 °C @ 1bar atm :D
?? what are you trying to say?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jort
critical temperature of argon is -122*C so above that temperature it can't be liquid no matter what pressure you apply to it.
Well s7e9h3n wants his unit back so I have to stop playing. :mad:
I’m going to return it with the no argon charge so that s7e9h3n doesn’t get over cooled. The final charge is 123, 22, 23, 14. The captubes are:
#1 = 81" x .055
#2 = 90" x .042
#3 = 90" x .042
sub = 30" x .026
evap = 72” x .031 x 2
(one captube per head)
Exp. tank= 30" x .026
I did play so that I could see what I could get out of it. Here are the temps with the thing pushed and tweaked with argon and methane. Methane worked well.
It’s the bomb!:eek:
Load, Inlet, head, out, suc/dis
0 w, -123c, -123c, -123c, 13/145
50 w, -121c, -121c, -121c, 15/175
100 w, -121c, -120c, -120c, 18/185
150 w, -119c, -117c, -116c, 20/200
200 w, 116c, -100c, - 112c, 23/225
Now I’m hooked. Next project will be a ¼ to ½ H.P. shooting for -60 to -80 @ 150 watts. Comments ? Thoughts ? :rolleyes: I know “show some pictures” I will. I raided my barn and here is what I found: some things to work with.:banana:
:) do it cryo, you know you want to!
Hehe I plan on doing the same sorta thing cryo-tek next weekend or so. My problem is I dont have the gases you have!
WOW....looks like the temps improved :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by cryo-tek
I'm gonna let Cryo-tek have a go with a Danfoss SC12MLX I've got sitting over at Chilly1's place. (Chilly1, if you're reading this, please send my compressor to me ;) )
Sheesh...that must be some kinda barn if you just "stumbled" upon a practically new P100. I can't imagine what it's like to have so much stuff that I'd forget about a ~$10K cooler :wth: :D
Hey cryo please answer my pm I need some handy hints :)
s7e9h3n will be looking forward to seeing your results mate ;)
oh yeah an any spare chips that cant handle the cold send em over ;)
a p200 sold on eBay last week for $300...
Damn should have jumped on that!
i think user PC_ICE (from another forum) got -90 with his autcoscades... i dont remember what HP but i think it was 1/3...Quote:
Originally Posted by cryo-tek
ya it wont condence but will it evaporate at 3000psi if its in a liquid state already?Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_road
edit: jezuz this new sig is making me lag... rofl
Yeah but its not bout no-load, that just can be seen from a damn PT chart. Tis all bout capacity.Quote:
i think user PC_ICE (from another forum) got -90 with his autcoscades... i dont remember what HP but i think it was 1/3...
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
im not sure your point, i never said it wasn't loaded, and i never brought up a PT chart either.
No no, by the PT chart I mean unloaded temps mean nothing really. If you want to see an unloaded temp just go look at a PT chart. That will tell you the BP at whatever suction PSI. Thats all unloaded tells you after all, what your BP is. Once you apply a load its a different story.
Polycold that s7 has was -160C or something at 5w of heat.
Not much use for that -160C right?
i know that
now how does that apply to PC_ICE's -90 autocasecades?
like i said i did not say that was an unloaded temp. IIRC they held in the 80's
Noob correct here, in fact for club membership a standard load should be set. like 150 watts. not just reaching -100c. the whole point of XS is cpu cooling. but since memberships have been handed out by just displying a number without verifacation of any kind, The club dosn't mean much any more . thats my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
But what if the unit does -100+C @ 150W on TWO heads? ;) So then maybe a 2 x -100C club should be made :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
BTW, that -90C from PCIce was unloaded and it was never tested with a load. From what I've been told the unit didn't have much capacity....;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
BTW your using a $10,000.00 comercial polycold , Far cry from a DIY unit.
Build one from scratch to 150 watts then youll get a that a boy.:toast:
If I went to work monday and changed a asorber and recharged a helium cryopump should I get in the -250c club ,of course not,I didn't build it, just serviced it.;)
I can remember him personally saying it had crap capacity. Looking forward to how things goes. Been too busy to continue on experiment but I should be right back on track next week :)Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
This thread has become a bunch of trash.:( You guys are debating over some club achievement level and missing the whole point of what we are trying to do. The work with s7e9h3n’s unit was done to demonstrate what the autocascade could do for you. s7e9h3n’s unit is a single 1H.P. compressor cooling two cold heads at temperatures below –100c. Did I build this unit? No I didn’t. Did I make it work better? Yes I did. Have I ever built one of these units? Yes. :confused: ;)
I think we need to stay focused on what we want or at least what I think you want. You want a cold CPU and I’m trying to help.:toast:
<---- This is it, it's COOL :banana:
rock on Cryo-TeK rock on
Now I don't understand what exactly you're trying to do/prove here Walt. I've been nothing but respectful in my replies to your posts but you continually crap in this thread. I don't recall any "competition" between PCIce's unit and mine :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
OK...WE ALL KNOW HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THE -100C/-150C CLUB. YOU DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT THE TITLES ARE HANDED OUT AND YOU THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE A REQUIREMENT OF 150W LOAD TESTED @ THOSE TEMPS. I'd say you've made that quite clear in at least 3 or 4 of your posts in this thread ALONE. I guarantee you, if entrance to the -100C/-150C Clubs required them to prove the unit was doing such temperatures LOADED @ 150W, almost half the current club members would have their memberships revoked.
I couldn't care less about being a member of any "cooling club" and I'm sure Cryo-tek feels the same. His purpose here was to show the capabilities of an autocascade and help others understand the concepts behind it. In fact, I don't think he's even mentioned anything about his inclusion in the -150C club. You've been the one who's made the biggest deal of it. How about I change my title? :p:
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1968/300c1ex.jpg
I feel that Cryo-tek is an asset to the phase change community and much can be learned from him....and maybe that's why I'm so surprised at both your unwillingness to support him and your eagerness to discredit anything he does. I know he's done his absolute best to accomodate everyone's questions as well as remaining cordial to even the people who have only negative things to say about him. He's not here for accolades or anything along those lines otherwise he'd just show the units HE manufactures for a "WOW effect". He's here to teach, learn, and have a bit of fun doing it. During his entire time here, he's done nothing wrong....so why treat him as if he did???
@ Cryo-tek: Sorry about the rant. I promise, this is going to be the last off topic post for me in this thread. Just had to unload a few things off my chest. Just know that there are people here who respect your work and are excited about the prospects you bring to our community. On behalf of these people (including myself) I'd like to say thanks for all your hard work :toast:
@ Everyone else: If you don't have anything nice to say then just refrain from sayin it, or if you have any unrelated issues with what's been stated in this thread, please contact either me or Cryo-tek via PM as there's no need to bring personal issues into the public. It's fine to disagree/criticize in a post here, but just try to be constructive as possible. I'd hate to have to close this thread because of crap.....
Mind if I ask what was the proportion of gas used in weight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
I think you misunderstood Walt. Thing is what was proven is what a $10,000 commerial autocascade unit can do with the right setup. In my opinion this is fairly useless because no one here has $10,000 to spend on a unit. Perhaps if he could do the same with a home built system on a reasonable budget that would deserve some sort of recognition and the current level of attention. I think this got blown a little out of proportion as it is not very relevant to what people actually build/use/perfect on this forum.
And this deal with the title, Walts reply was in responce to your post talking about making the title more impressive. So I dont see why you are jumping on him for criticizing the acomplishment.
So you are blaming Walt for bringing this title bs in to this...... :eh:Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
First off, yes - this IS a $10K+ commercial auto cascade brand new. But who in their right mind would pay $10K+ for a phase unit for their computer...surely I didn't. Hell, the total amount invested in my unit is less than ANY cascade you'll see for sale (and more likely less than the cost of the parts alone).Quote:
Originally Posted by epion2985
Obviously you failed to read what both I and Cryo-tek have stated time and time again...the point of this thread was more or less to show the capabilities of an autocascade and educate people on the concepts behind such a unit.Quote:
In my opinion this is fairly useless because no one here has $10,000 to spend on a unit.
Perhaps if you did a bit more reading and a lot less speculating, you'll find that Cryo-tek has posted a unit that he built with a reasonable budget.Quote:
Perhaps if he could do the same with a home built system on a reasonable budget that would deserve some sort of recognition and the current level of attention.
You're a fool if you think autocascading technology is unimportant/irrelevant. Just because YOU don't see people attempting to build an autocascade doesn't necessarily mean that people don't WANT to. BTW, there's a "small" stickied thread right at the top of the Vapor Phase Change section.........in case you missed it...Quote:
I think this got blown a little out of proportion as it is not very relevant to what people actually build/use/perfect on this forum.
Xtreme 2006 Autocascade Competition
Thanks for confirming the fact that you don't read before opening your mouth....Quote:
And this deal with the title, Walts reply was in responce to your post talking about making the title more impressive. So I dont see why you are jumping on him for criticizing the acomplishment.
So you are blaming Walt for bringing this title bs in to this...... :eh:
"Now I’m hooked. Next project will be a ¼ to ½ H.P. shooting for -60 to -80 @ 150 watts. Comments ? Thoughts ?"
why such a stepackwards into single stage territory with all this autocascade know how? how about taking the compressors on your bench and show us how to build a auto?
Load, Inlet, head, out, suc/dis
0 w, -123c, -123c, -123c, 13/145
50 w, -121c, -121c, -121c, 15/175
100 w, -121c, -120c, -120c, 18/185
150 w, -119c, -117c, -116c, 20/200
200 w, 116c, -100c, - 112c, 23/225
just did -119c @ 150 watts
"Have I ever built one of these units? Yes."
So all I,m asking is to teach everyone here how to build a -119c autocascade. everyone wants to know how.
Stephen all I,m asking is for you and cryo to lead a autocascade project to duplicate and teach us what has already been built.He can feed you material lists and step by step instructions and pictures and you can post it. I'm sure severial of us will build along. AGREED? not enough info has been posted for anyone to build one thats sure it works.
I think most guy here would rather follow along step by step and have a working autocascade instead of wasting money & expermenting trying to build one for the compatition.what do the rest of you guys think, We can all follow cryo.and stephen.
I agree with you stephen , I'm not discounting autos ,in fact they are the way to go,,who has room for 2 or 3 compressors under their desk.
Stephen I have no ill will towards anyone but after you hold up a dog and claim you cloned it, you now have to explain how.Agreed?
I dont see a point in rambling abou the polycold being 10000$+ unit. Its still just a compressor and some copper tubing that have been put together in a way that it can cool X amount of wats in Y temperature. The real art of making an working autocascade is in the metering devices and the charge of gases. That is the part of this unit that Cryo has improved and tweaked to improve its preformance. Im sure he could have thorown the other parts together too and got at least as good results than this time when he used that Polycold as a starting point.
And about the -100c club: I cant actually recall any 2 stage casade that has been posted here that has been able to keep 160 or 180w under -100c. That is pretty damn hard to do with ethylene alone and reasonably sized compressors.
That is just my opinnion and everyone else can and will have their own.
Awesome results BTW ;)
Because THIS is what everyone wants to see ;) A unit which can fit under/over/on a desktop and making a unit which will cool better than any single stage in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
Agreed. This was where he was headed anyways. He was pulling together the plans for such a unit and had planned on posting it as soon as he was done.Quote:
Stephen all I,m asking is for you and cryo to lead a autocascade project to duplicate and teach us what has already been built.He can feed you material lists and step by step instructions and pictures and you can post it. I'm sure severial of us will build along. AGREED? not enough info has been posted for anyone to build one thats sure it works.
Please dont' confuse me with a builder as I have the skills of a 3-toed sloth compared to the rest of you guys.....Quote:
I think most guy here would rather follow along step by step and have a working autocascade instead of wasting money & expermenting trying to build one for the compatition.what do the rest of you guys think, We can all follow cryo.and stephen.
Yes, 100%. I offer my apologies Walt - SORRY :( . I just get a bit irritated when we possibly could be pushing away one of the few people in this WORLD that are capable of doing such wonders with these units. IMO, we're at the footsteps of a technology which can potentially change the face of phase change as we know it......I just hope we don't get left in the cold ;)Quote:
I agree with you stephen , I'm not discounting autos ,in fact they are the way to go,,who has room for 2 or 3 compressors under their desk.
Stephen I have no ill will towards anyone but after you hold up a dog and claim you cloned it, you now have to explain how.Agreed?
Cheers Walt :toast:
@ Hatemi: Thank you. That means a lot comming from you :toast:
Hey Cryo-tek, s7e9h3n, chilly1 and all other guys here....
I haven't read all post in this thread but I read it sometimes to follow this project.
If I have understood the schematics of CRYO-Tek and other thing in this thread :
_ You have made an autocascade with "4" stage (schematics)
_ You have 2 phase separator and 4 stage, and 2 interstage with phase must be separated, the last stage is just behind the evaps.
In your "avatar" the schematics says in 1 ther is -32°c but how this can be possible if you don't seprare the 2 phase create after the condensor ?:stick:
The correct schematics can be like this ?
_ You use a SLHX and this is also your hx per each stage....
I think you use an expansion tank or system like to prevent too hight presure is the circuit...
The % of each gases must be difficult to determine i think....
Impressive work !:toast:
Humm, but wdrzal, several drawings and designs have been showned by Cryo.. Who ever still hasnt understood it, its problly cause havent spent enough time studying it. Details like cap tube length are variables that will only work for determined units depending on compressor power, gases used, stages, etc... like I have very much learned the hard way LOL :D ...Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
basic auto & 4 stage ;)
Thanks for those Walt :toast:
But it's quite common to see drawings of the layouts of autocascades. The problem that seems to have hindered most builders hasn't been the build itself, but rather the appropriate charge for the systems........seems as if Cryo-tek has the knowledge to both build and charge these units so they're able to have a decent capacity @ low temps.
Example: Check out his avatar...there's something important that he shows which those drawings don't ;)
hey walt, whats an absorber?
sorry for the noob question :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
Maybe you should take your own advice and try reading. I didnt say autocascades are not important, I said the unit you worked on was not important as no one here would spend so much on one.
And yes another unit was made but from what I understand it did not preform like your polycold. I could have misread or misunderstood something, if so please correct me.
I read everything just fine and I still hold the same opinion, make a system made from scratch preforms like your retuned polycold, I'll believe it when I see it.
Oh, really? I read perfectly fine....:Quote:
Originally Posted by epion2985
Please explain this statement and how it's applicable to your assertion......Quote:
Originally Posted by epion2985
Here's a little help: Webster defines the word relevant as "having significant and demonstratable bearing on the matter at hand."
I explained above. I dont think its that simple to do the same unit with preformance your showed from scratch. Thats all. I am a bit skeptical as to how much use we can get from this information since most things here are made from scratch, no need to get offended. I am sure you might prove me wrong, and I am ok with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
Good work :up:
Now that I feel a bit off topic thanks to really off the topic comments :)
You have PM(or EM) Cryotek as again asking you for some advices in smaller sized auto construction. I can always use more help from forum members on improving my design and ideas or leeching off cool things from people :)
Example: Check out his avatar...there's something important that he shows which those drawings don't
stephen whats the important thingy you refer too?
some ask what that asorber was, well in that drawing since I don't see a evap I think its being called a asorber. or
now with that said asorbers of a different kind are used in cryonics which it may be if they left out the evap.in the diagram most oils freeze around -85c canisters that are filled with charcoal to asorb the oil that the oil seperator misses are called asorbers. They need to be changed out every so often. and the oil they catch needs to be replaced in the system. But it allow for 24/7 use without defrost cycles
also want to mention asorbers of a different kind are used with cryopumps for very low vacuum, they are used to asorb helium or other gas molicules to produce ultra low vacuums.
actully cryopump has a duel definition, one type produce cold temps the other produces low vacuums.
It would kinda suck if you were in a accident ,and when you got to the Emergancy Room they told you to come back later our MRI is being defrosted. cryonics are used to cool scanners and lasers in the medical field in addition to just cold storage.
I like when forums grow and the numbers increase....but there are some things on this board that are starting to get out of line....
Here we see an extremely rare unit, everyone is an expert on it...and is talking about plans to build this and that or whatever...
Units aren't even built anymore to cool PC's....lets just build shiz to see who can get it the coldest...
It seems i barely see benchmarks anymore related to this stuff...just new people diving off into projects to try to engorge their ePenis with low temps.
The vapor phase section has lost alot of its muster to me, at least since the time i've been here.
I like that auto design because you don't run the suction of 1 stage trough the HX of the other. I think such a system should be more reliable although I didn't get it to work that way :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
You really aught to use the cold gas coming from the evap for something so running it thru the hx is a good way to add capacity I think.
I'd rather use the suction for a liquid line HX.
everyone knows the best way to tripple your e-penis size is to get in to the -100 club.... lolQuote:
Originally Posted by gclg2000
They should change the titles to 4Ghz club, 5Ghz club etc, that will get people to bench like good old days.
Hey, I want a "nicest club" LOL
Then why not run the liquid line through some point of the suction and use the evap suction for cooling both?Quote:
I'd rather use the suction for a liquid line HX.
If you need the evap suction to condense the refrigerant,how do you get it to condense the refrigerant in the first place? before the evap gets cold during start up ?
No just to help condense. Make sure you can condense the refrigerant of course first, but to help why not ?
I like Llamas, they're neat <
(Read as: Lighten up guys n take a deep breath and set your rig up and make a statment with some wickedly awsom states and rais the bare)
read as what xeon? can sombody here translate canadian to english for me? :shrug:
As in do a very methodical Bench mark with your rig to push the bar up and give others some thing to strive for in their posts.
Temps @ each stage ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
Right...this unit is not real. The temps are fake and I don't benchmark. I just like to see the "ooh's and ahh's" when I post fake benchmarks and fake temps. In fact, I had Cryotek work on my unit JUST SO I COULD START A THREAD to post misleading information. Autocascades suck and I would rather be aircooling my cpu anyways. Thanks for your input....:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by gclg2000
Like I said...I don't bench :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by epion2985
http://cryo-laboratory.com/upload/us...y%20154/4g.jpg
THANK FOR ALL THE SUPPORT GUYS:slapass: ...this thread is done