I need Kobe Tai to come over and bite my tongue.

i wont trust the inquirer and yes it will use ddr2 but at least there are some nice memories running low latencies and they said they will start with 667

you have to remember when intel move from northwood to prescott they changed the process and they cpu well get hotter and clock for clock the northwood were better.

i dont know if the next core revision from intel is going to be better or if the amd revision or new socket is going to be better the only thing in know is right now amd solution is far better than any intel solution except for mobile market.

the dual core race is just begining and i think the firs step is for amd a lower consuption cpu cooler and better

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wfarid

most people don't run crazy stability stress tests. Rarely (like once in a blue-moon) do Dell users place anywhere near the stress the THG is putting those chips under.

---

lol, im sorry to say dude, but WoW and FFXI put my cpu under more stress than prime or PI, or any other stress test things ive found, seriously, no program has been able to heat up my cpu so much as to get it so i cant touch my heatsink, and final fantasy has, and YES my fan was running, and ALOT of people play games such as WoW and FFXI and HL2 and whatnot so really, they DO put their comps under stress


btw, it took me an hour and a can of compressed air to get the heatsink cool enuff for me to remove it

Games dont stress your cpu more then complex mathematics. They stress your motherboard, ram and graphics more. My guess is that dell will have a complex heatpipe structure with a large fan (possibly more than one) to cool these things. But that's just a guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DilTech

This is their Pentium D 840EE, a chip known to run that hot. One, that as far as I know, is not offered by Dell, as they tend to not use intel's top end chips... These temps ARE the same as every other reviewer showed, and actually a bit lower, as most said they had an IDLE of 60C!

:::edit:::

They DEFINITELY changed the fan on it, I'm not sure about the cooler entirely, but definitely the fan!

---

Dell uses all Intel Top-end chips, what they don't use is Intel's Stock Heatsink/Fan.. Last time i looked into a friend's Dell XPC(Dell's Gaming Computers w/ Intel high-end chips), It was using this huge Aluminum finned block with 120mm fan.

EDIT: No btx cooler was used so this thread is kinda pointelss now u know.


*slaps fugger on the wrist*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trance565

its pissin me off, i want it to melt, how much longer till it melts?!?!?!?!?
HAHAHAHAHHA

---

I just checked on that to see what funny stuff was going on and guess what the pic showed trance?
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...id=32173&stc=1
:rofl:

Seriously... noticed they cleared the "last week" run time chart for the AMD system so it no longer shows the nice long run it had before they restarted things :stick:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FUGGER

C, The Amiga classes did not help the THG team with AMD/Intel setup as promised.

---

:lol: Old school ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lithan

Games dont stress your cpu more then complex mathematics. They stress your motherboard, ram and graphics more. My guess is that dell will have a complex heatpipe structure with a large fan (possibly more than one) to cool these things. But that's just a guess.

---

well, it sure as hell heated my cpu mroe than anything else did

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

*snip*

---

NO BTX HEATSINKS WERE USED !!!


P4 BTX cooler

BTX coolers at Intel

Compare to: Coolers at THG test, NOT BTX.

Get your facts straight !!

Is Intel hiring people to fill forums with lies ?
It sure looks like it.

Pentium D is catching up on lame encoder seemingly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hans.Gruber

NO BTX HEATSINKS WERE USED !!!


P4 BTX cooler

BTX coolers at Intel

Get your facts straight !!

Is Intel hiring people to fill forums with lies ?
It sure looks like it.

---

thanks for clearing that :)

Clearing what up? Wasnt the point being that it doesnt have a shroud as you would see in a BTX system? I am confused now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OC Detective

Clearing what up? Wasnt the point being that it doesnt have a shroud as you would see in a BTX system? I am confused now.

---

Actual coolers are much different, just take a closer look.

Coolers at THG test.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...othcoolers.jpg

actually loe, yesthey are, they are in clear acrylic cases, read up on the hardware used XD
i mean seriously, look at the blue led fans, u think they are just hanging there?

neither of those are actually true BTX coolers if you want to be technical.

A true BTX style cooler would be designed to take advantage of the wind tunnel effect... those just block it. Completely useless really.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by STEvil

neither of those are actually true BTX coolers if you want to be technical.

A true BTX style cooler would be designed to take advantage of the wind tunnel effect... those just block it. Completely useless really.

---

Who brought in this BTX cooler confusion..Ofcourse they are not using any BTX coolers here. Both HSF's are normal/ATX/Block coolers.

EDIT: Gmorning Munich :)

its hard to tell if cases are closed or not, they really shoulda used blue acrylic

You guys reading the comments over there? Dang fugger too is an Intel fan hates AMD.

I don't understand Intel fanboyism anyone remember 1990-1998??? I do! If AMD collapses, Intel would immedately go back to it's good old days of 1990-1998 of $500-$1200 CPUs, nothing for the budget shopper. Maybe you're a millionaire, I don't know but I like high levels of cheapness so I can spend my money on a house payment and other appreciating assets..not the grandchampion of depreciation : the computer.

I just built my sis a screaming (for her she's a shrink for the state uses MS word thats about it) system with a $42 1800Mhz duron and $51 NF2 IGP board with GF4MX graphics on-board. Set bus to 166 on default core = 2250Mhz...Thanks AMD:)

AMD good for intel fans too because it lowers thier prices.. You can get some really sweet chips in the $150-$200 range (2.8-3.2 p4's) thanks to AMD competition.

lol, has anyone read the more info thing, lol its got a few pages on the .... troublesomeness of the intel cpu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by notoriousformula

Who brought in this BTX cooler confusion.

---

Just scroll upwards.. :)

here or here

lol, im sure the wires would all be blown to one side if that was the case

lol, im sure the sensor is different, and i like how they DID gripe about going thru 7 motherboards

which does help ppl understand intels prolems
lol epox board was fried with in 10 minutes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LOE

but it is strange all of a sudden the intel temp drops 20 degree

---

Is there some icebox next to that air intake ? :eek:

hell no! what happened? Intel's rig now only at 70C max??? running straight 15hours??? what other cheats they use for Intel's?

second update with mostly changes for Intel's rig, bah THG should be awarded "The worst IT website 2005"

lol, LOE, tell me son, how many programs do u run at once? cuz i seriously doubt whatever you do on a daily basis will ever put much stess on teh AMD system, plus with amd you wont have any problems findin a motherboard to fit it, as the intel, you will have to wait a while before a motherboard taht is stable comes out

seriously, i still dont think intell is doing that great, i mean, they have "4" cores, and amd has 2 so i would hope intel would do ALOT better

I think he was being *sarcastic* lol

How are you all determining power consumption?
I can't find it on the site.

I was talking to Fugger and he was the mentioned the BTX cooler thing.. seems that fugger is wrong about this... i shall be editing my post...

I am not wrong, the heatsink that THG is using is one of the first designs and was shipped with a lot of retail CPU's

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/2005...tium_d-06.html

It clearly has no shroud. I have seen every sink design from Intel made since the 486.

http://www.tomshardware.com/stresstest/intel.html

Totally defeating the purpose of BTX all together

Attached is the reference design for the heatsink THG used. It is made for BTX case weather you guys believe it or now.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...chmentid=32191

go pull the fan shroud off your car and drive it across the desert.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...chmentid=32192

This BTX case side is off a Intel reference machine.

I hope some of you caught the jokes.

"I stayed at a holliday inn last night" was from commercials

"Trunk Monkey" and as well

Hah hes got you there
Such drama over a test so meaningless ran by a site noone respects to start with. Yeah!

I especially liked your Helen Keller comment Fugger:rotf:

Anyway, I heard that after seeing this test Iran and N.Korea are canning their nuclear weapons programs- they're developing missiles containing 500 Pentium D's instead.

Okey, so obviously tom's screwed up and ran the test without the BTX heatsink. But one question remains though, do you HAVE to own a damned BTX case just to run this monster of a CPU at only its stock settings? Thats ridiculous.

why they changed to the enermax psu if the pcp&p turbo cool is 1000 time better than that?

they changed it becuase they wanted to remove the posiblity for ANY of the other parts in the system to be cuasing the problem with the crashes. they were NOT implying that the P&C was the issue but to elimate it as a possible issue they removed it with new hardware.

instead of searching out what was the problem and replacing parts one by one they decided to do a full switchout... not exactly the greatest methodolgy for a creditable stress test but its THG.

It is still a $hit test no matter what...and because of the reboots Intel has everything set to high priorties well the AMD system has been on the hole time...

Dragon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trance565

well, it sure as hell heated my cpu mroe than anything else did

---

My guess is GFX raised case temp which in turn raised the air cpu was trying to cool with, so higher cpu temps.

Of course that means your point is still valid since dell isn't known for great case cooling. But they also aren't known for great videocards.


Keep in mind that they performance scores aren't equatible with the uptime scores (for intel anyway). They are cumulative of all the work done since the global reset ~ 50 hr ago. So AMD SHOULD still win farcry and Winrar. Intel will probably win Encoding (which is a joke, AMD is performing much worse there than it was before the reset. They obviously gimped it somehow) and the last test (surprise, surprise).

Noldor, Intel tried to release the BTX spec and no case mfg really stepped up to uphold BTX. There is like one on the shelf at Fry's

To better answer your question, no. A BTX case is not needed but switching to a aftermarket fan would be a good idea as the older BTX fan is near usless without the side shroud that it was designed to use.

I was running for weeks on heatsink at 266x14 (3.73Ghz) without any problems.

i thougt the idea of btx was to blow the air through the heatsink from the side and not from the top onto it? the idea of btx is to shroud the airflow from the front pf the case to the back of the case, this wind tunnel doesnt work if you have a fan on top of the heatsink blowing air onto it from the top.

if this is a btx heatsink then every single hardware site was stupid enough to think its an atx heatsink and used it in their reviews, without a shroud of any kind:

trustedreviews 840 review shows the very same heatsink
http://www.trustedreviews.com/articl...e=2756&head=60

hexus.net has the same heatsink for the 840EE
http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews...VybF9wYWdlPTQ=

hothardware uses the very same heatsink as well
http://www.hothardware.com/viewartic...leid=659&cid=1

firiginsquad 840ee review, same heatsink
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/..._840/page5.asp

hardocp review, same heatsink
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NzU2

xbitlabs review, same heatsink
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...ium-840_6.html

anandtech 840ee review, same heatsink
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2388&p=3


bbtw, did anybody else notice those weird white windows that popped up on both systems?
whats that? did they both crash?
does anybody have screenshots of the old performence stats before thg reset everything and removed the stats and logs?
i just finished the news thread and will post this on the front page now :D

stop that BTX talk, they were using standard coolers that INTEL provided with ATX board.

Quote:

---

bbtw, did anybody else notice those weird white windows that popped up on both systems?

---

What the hell they are up to ?
Are they trying to hide error messages from Intel system ?
screenshot (sorry it's BMP, im lazy and i want to punish my ISP).

Yes Hans, that is true

The side panel I picuted is from a reference BTX machine I own and it was provided by Intel. The Heatsink fan I pictured is the original BTX design that was delivered the above said BTX case.

Yes Intel shipped a lot of these and yes Intel has changed the spec on BTX.

You guys can argue with an Intel developer that has the reference designs on hand? Try and open your eyes and look at the picture, it is obvious that the fan has no shroud. The shroud I pointed out (granted it is hard to find on the shelf) is the correct hardware for that setup.

FYI 955 is a BTX board, last ATX board was the 875 chipset. BTX boards are exact to ATX boards less the percise placement of CPU in relation to the shroud I posted a pic of.

My Intel reference machine (BTX standard) will fit any 915, 925, 945 and 955 mobo perfectly.

but fugger why they are selling cpus with btx standar if almost nobody has a btx case :S could you explain that to me please?

Fugger you're just wrong. All 955x boards are ATX. Intel even says so in black and white here: http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bk/

Are you going to argue with Intels web site?

Futhermore BTX is instantly recognisable by the expansion slots are on opposite sides as ATX.

eDIT
BTX
ATX

Notice everything on the board has switched sides. Memory, xpansion slots, etc and the processor is placed infront of the board where it can get the coldest incoming air as possible.

( I always thought this idea was stupid though cause you heat the case and other IC's more than if processor is last thing out...Intel will dump this BTX idea next year with chips that even run cooler than A64s..memron..conroe etc)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FUGGER

The side panel I picuted is from a reference BTX machine I own and it was provided by Intel.

---

Thats some tweaked design that is been made from ATX system, it is NOT BTX reference design.
Idea in that design is that it gives fresh air to CPU just like in BTX cases.
It's temporary solution that probably just mimics BTX thermal characteristics.

Hans, I am a Intel developer and that is from my BTX refence system. The spec has changed since then but many of those heat sinks hit the retail market and were shipped with the processors to the reviewers.

I have expressed the problem to Intel about giving reviewers the incorrect supporting hardware a few times now.

My case was designed for that sink and that is obvious.

Trust me, I have seen every revision and know that heat sink well. open your eyes and you will see it has no shroud, use common sense and figure out that without the shroud the air movement down is reduced greatly.

If you had the case like mine (sold at Frys and Compusa) you would know it make a huge difference in the operation of that heatsink. Night and day difference.

Intel website has been update to show current BTX. I was on BTX so long ago and I tested the sinks you are seeing now on all those review sites. I expressed my concerns about this problem and un educated people running the open fans (exp this stress test crap) Without it, it is going to fail over and over again under load. Why do you think so many people complained of Prescott temps?

All motherboards 875 and newer support BTX standard as well as ATX. AMD guys are clueless and I am speaking jibberish.

so is intel fault to send a btx standar hsf to review sites and some retail...

so is not their fault maybe they should change both hsf to xp90 or something similar to see how it perfoms...

yes yes, that would solve problems on the Intel side. I seem to be able to run flawlessly for weeks with a 500Mhz OC over stock on air.

Right now, the DFI 925XE lives in that case and the original mobo is the XS forum server.

so we can say @ thg they dont know how to make a stress test maybe you should call them and say you can help them xD

winrar lame and dvix are HT optimized?

FUGGER vs. Thomas Pabst! FIGHT :bananal: :lsfight:

that stress test's results "so far" are scary though... :shocked:

Fugger, you realize the Artic 64 Freezer uses the same type of fan, without a shroud, and works fine... Right?

Plus, they're running them open case, the point of the shroud is to pull air directly from the outside! In the reviews of the PD 840EE, they used the reference system sent to them by intel, and had idle temps of 60C! That's correct, a reference system, just like what you're talking about...

I can see how the shroud might help a bit, but with the system being open case, it's pulling in fresh air anyway and thus negating the need for the shroud... Of course, I may be wrong, and you're the intel developer(which if you are, may I strongly advise you quit before Quad core makes it's appearance and intel again slap 2 chips together and call it quad), however I can point you to countless fans that use the same basic style as the intel stock does, and none of them require a "shroud".

Also, since when does a processor REQUIRE a specific case to run?... If it does, then that's ANOTHER victory added for AMD!

for best temps with that kind of system di tech you need a wind tunnel as fugger showed before and that helps a lot to keep the cpu cool....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DilTech

Of course, I may be wrong, and you're the intel developer(which if you are, may I strongly advise you quit before Quad core makes it's appearance and intel again slap 2 chips together and call it quad)

---

ROFLMAO !!


But seriously, Intel now being the technology and performance underdog, i won't expect them to be this poor 12 months from now.
AMD will have run for it's money, altough AMD also can keep it's lead
We will see more in Q4 2005 to Q2 2006.


IDF 2006: "we now have quad core x86, it comes with a 12 month supply of dry ice and a fire extinquisher" :D

The case design is to move air thru the case and with the side off that is not happening. I know how easy it is for an AMD fanboy to argue this till the end of time and THG leaves us all with a bad taste in our mouths with the most idiotic stress test we have seen to date. I will laugh when THG comes up with any conclusion to the smoking pile they have been cultivating over the past few days.

FYI, My money is on Yonah/Napa to whooping AMD ass all over the place. I will ask permission to post socket 480 w/ dual cpu and dual core.

Eh, you're the developer...not me.

Also, I'm not an amd fanboy for the record, my old system...and everyone before that, was an intel besides a AXP2100+(which I replaced not even 2 months after building it with a 2.6C). I'm not pro-anybody.. I'm pro-performance.

Either way, intel needs to get off their high horse, realize they're not king anymore, and do something major... Or atleast send the intel mafia over to stomp the THG guys in the ground... That alone would be enough for me to build another Intel system tommorrow!

It's not fanboyism if we laugh at THG frying Intel, or if we laugh at Intel heat production.
If it were AMD i would feel sorry becouse it's smaller company, and also becouse we need competition.

When Intel had problem with Pentium making calculation errors, their decision was to release it anyway, it is called "engineers decision".
Error wasn't that bad, but from marketing point of view it was disaster.

Did they learn from it ?
They sure did !
This time it seems that marketing made the decision about cooling solutions, "We can't demand people to place buckets in their computers, it makes us look bad".
End result is too hot running systems that keep on crashing.
So it is Intel making big mistakes again. They shouldn't have released dual cores, it's just a PR release, "we were first" (yeah, go and buy one).

I think we all can, and should, agree that the heatsink used in the test is NOT the heatsink Intel meant users to combine with their dualcore processors. This chip apparantly requires BTX to run properly, and I guess Intel should advertise that more and demand that their resellers inform about this on the spec-sheet at the retailers webpages. 99% uf all users buying this chip will not own BTX cases and will run into some serious problems. Too bad. Yonah seems extremly promising though and I can't wait to buy one. But even those who prefer Intel have to agree that if you ARE going to spend 1000$ on a processor, the Athlon X2 IS a better choise. Which processor is best for budget systems will of course depend on money and where and how its gonna be used. But if you MUST spend 1000$ on a CPU, I can't see ONE reason why the Intel one should be recommended.

Noldor, well said. And i bought nothing Intel before the pc thats in my sig since i do believe there were the better choice at that time. For the same reason, i havent bought one since the p4c were phased out.

*patiently awaits for his Yonah pc*

The Intel is superior when more than two threads are used. It is superior at encoding and multimedia streaming.

It is a superior product when selling to big business and is accepted into military, government and educational sales. This is where AMD is rejected the most.

People who demand higher quality machines buy Intel

Professionals who need un comprimised stability buy Intel.

AMD is fine for the gamer and casaul home user who can overlook minor stability issues and willing to beat head against the wall over NF3/NF4 reboot issue for hours to eventually give up to only see the Windows splash screen.

The members of this site has killed hundreds of FX processors over the past few months. Some members killing upwards of a dozen. Weather it was too much vcore or too much vdimm they are still deaded.

You would be digging deep to find one dead P4 and near impossible to find two dead ones by the same person. Give it a rest about AMD being superior. Its all in you feeling you have ownage with your AMD cpu. :party3:

yonah looks primising i wont deny that but i want to see what is under the sleeve of amd if you see the pentium M architecture run at lower clocks and very expensive but their ipc is pretty damn high like the amd athlon 64 cpus when they oc they can match a fx55 at stock they still lag behind now this is just now in the future things can change i used all my life intel cpu except for now and i think amd is far better than intel right now

Hehehe, alright alright :) When i jump in the military scene i'll be sure to get myself a Intel processor, i promise. But honestly, for _ME_ AMD _is_ superior, but things may change, soon mabye. Yonah looks promising like i said. But as long as it isn't out my Venice runs 24/7 stable at 2800mhz and doing all things I want it to do without any issues at all, and it's noiseless with my quiet watercooling. Perhaps an Intel might be faster in some apps, mabye even some apps I run, but I'm too scared, perhaps my computer will melt, and wouldn't it be a pitty to stop being an AMD fan boy ;) j/k


BTW

"It is a superior product when selling to big business and is accepted into military, government and educational sales. This is where AMD is rejected the most."

Doesn't this have more to do with AMD being unable to ship large enough quantities rather then lacking stability?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FUGGER

The Intel is superior when more than two threads are used. It is superior at encoding and multimedia streaming.

It is a superior product when selling to big business and is accepted into military, government and educational sales. This is where AMD is rejected the most.

People who demand higher quality machines buy Intel

Professionals who need un comprimised stability buy Intel.

AMD is fine for the gamer and casaul home user who can overlook minor stability issues and willing to beat head against the wall over NF3/NF4 reboot issue for hours to eventually give up to only see the Windows splash screen.

The members of this site has killed hundreds of FX processors over the past few months. Some members killing upwards of a dozen. Weather it was too much vcore or too much vdimm they are still deaded.

You would be digging deep to find one dead P4 and near impossible to find two dead ones by the same person. Give it a rest about AMD being superior. Its all in you feeling you have ownage with your AMD cpu. :party3:

---

FUD As shown here 12 crashes over 170 hours for Intel boxes vs. zero for AMD.

I work for the largest defense contrator in the USA we use AMD 64 linux clusters for our modeling. Used to use intel until we found AMD 64 was 3x as fast as comparable Intels we tested. Oh and get this, we use via chipsets too OMG. :rolleyes:


As far as killing processors. Intel can't handle volts. Everyones heard of NSDS (northwood sudden death syndrome), I fried mine with a measly 1.75 volts while athlon XP's could handle 2.2 volts all day long.

The majority of people buy intel because it was the standard for 25 years. Has about 1000X more money to advertise and advertising/public relations is everythng in any business. See you're buying it.

Anyway keep beliveing what you want to believe. you don't have any proof because you can't have any but anecdotal opinions with a heavy bias anyone passing can see.

Those were all FUD too back in the day too. Before Toms sold his site for 30milllion and the site still had value here's what he said:

http://www.tomshardware.com/mainboar...kt133a-16.html

"The most important finding was the enjoyable fact that each of the tested boards ran 100% stable even at the fastest possible memory timing settings. VIA's upcoming DDR chipsets may not look too impressive right now, but the Apollo KT133A is a matured, fast and solid product that offers good performance."

http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q...athlon-02.html

"AMD Processors are significantly less expensive than Intel processors although they are at least on par in terms of performance. - FACT"

"AMD processors are incompatible. - LIE

Not that the average guy who just heard that phrase would know what the heck 'incompatible' is, but it sounds really bad, doesn't it? Well, even the people who do know that 'incompatible' means that a product wouldn't work reliably with other components (which of course is bad) are wrong if they accuse AMD's Athlon or Duron processors of it. In our labs we are testing all kinds of Athlon platforms with all kinds of different components and I can definitely say that I cannot see any difference between the compatibility of AMD products and platforms compared to the same from Intel."

"Chipsets for AMD processors are inferior to Intel chipsets. - LIE

Yeah, sure, the earth is flat and politicians are honest ... I am still amused when I see people posting the above message in news groups or as their response to articles. How many more times does Intel need to screw up their chipsets (i820, MTH, ...) until you guys get the message? . . . Incompatibilities are more a problem of the motherboard BIOS than of the chipset right now. Thus both chipset makers, Intel as well as VIA, are actually in the same situation."

:::sigh:::Tom::: I guess some things will never change, four years later still hearing the same ole' BS

How about ANAND? You know the guy who reviews hardware professionally seeing thousands of products a year and probably has a 40 million dollar site himself due to the trust he's built. The guys been using AMD servers for four years now, because thier unreliable?? IMO There is actually no more effective endorsement of the stability and reliability of AMD platforms than the fact that AnandTech uses them as the sole platform for the web serving of its main site and forums.

Well, this debate could go on for years and years. Toms test hold no real relevance to this and I'm sure Intel's processor is just as stable as the AMD one when used like it's intended to be used, with the BTX case/fan.

Many of us have been running AMD for years without problem. FUGGER has ran Intel without problems. So which is best? I game mostly and do some "internetting", the choise is obvious. However, should I go into some serious encoding i'd look into an Intel rig. And to be honest, 100 or 110 FPS in a game, or 5 CD's in an hour instead of 6 CD's. LOL wth are we arguing about anyway? As long as the processor is fun to overclock we should all be happy. We can use intel for PI and AMD for 3D. YAY!, fun for everyone.

Dear god just go play doom 3 enjoy your friken pc and open the shades to see there are more important things outside than what a community may think of the processor you use in your pc. Youre both defending intel/amd like the faith of the goddamn third world depended on it.
I ve got news for you, theyre both faceless companies that couldnt care less about what people on xs think.

I think this site should be about personnel achievement on one's own hardware and not a flame fest on how somebody else's pc suck.

This should not become "Last fanboy standing" thread, but im going to say something anyway..

Intel has the marketing, it has the money to market and affect peoples opinions.
People - especially in the US - thinks that Intel is same as CPU, that there is no options.
Or if they know that there are options, they believe that Intel is better.

That what Intel has. It has no better stability, it has no better performance, it has no better value for the money.

Companies like IBM, HP, Supermicro, Sun, Cray, etc, do NOT build unrelieable systems, yet they use AMD cpu's.

I almost forgot what Intel has too, it has DELL, and DELL has Intel by the balls. :)

I have a suggestion: Lets leave this AMD vs Intel thing, lets just laugh at THG frying CPU's, and to what funny explanations they have this time. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noldor

Well, this debate could go on for years and years. Toms test hold no real relevance to this and I'm sure Intel's processor is just as stable as the AMD one when used like it's intended to be used, with the BTX case/fan.

Many of us have been running AMD for years without problem. FUGGER has ran Intel without problems. So which is best? I game mostly and do some "internetting", the choise is obvious. However, should I go into some serious encoding i'd look into an Intel rig. And to be honest, 100 or 110 FPS in a game, or 5 CD's in an hour instead of 6 CD's. LOL wth are we arguing about anyway? As long as the processor is fun to overclock we should all be happy. We can use intel for PI and AMD for 3D. YAY!, fun for everyone.

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No we don't play games or rip CDs we got them for 3x the FPU performance of any intel chip (other than unreleased memron which will be sweet like AMD 64) Here's an example at work of AMD's killer FPU.
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2436&p=5

This gets exponential in a Rocks cluster...!!!

Nations uniting under our common hatred of THG, i like it

Zebo. Be happy that you're now running AMD cpus instead of Intel. I do the same. But I don't see the reason to start a huge debate over this. We're not discussing what is best for large businesses or the military, i know fugger brought it up, but that was a reply to my post which already was off topic. Now lets get back to discussing toms review. We all know that intel vs amd is an useless debate, everyone has their own needs and requirements and oppinions of what is best. Let em have that. I like AMD best ATM, fugger likes intel.

I have no problem with anyone buying whatever, it's thier money after all. Just don't like guessing or unsubstantiated ripping on another product. IMO thats someone with an agenda. Either they need self affirmation they made the right choice or they are making money off it..I dunno but it's uncool as far as I'm concerned.

There's plenty of bad to talk about AMD and Intel without FUD. AMD's support is terrible. AMD does'nt have HT which kills it in multithreads. Intel's hot uses and uses lots of power relative. etc etc etc...

oH and I use AMD and Intel.. Still have all my intel boxes from the 90's I am a fan of all computers.:)

I found a funny screenshot from THG forums.

THG Stress test analysis. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hans.Gruber

I found a funny screenshot from THG forums.

THG Stress test analysis. :D

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All I know is toms is getting rich off these page hits. ;) Maybe this is on purpose..the controversy I mean. I can gurantee you I could build a AMD and Intel system 247 stable.. Would'nt sell though. :p:

lol!, das pretty funny

I work for Advanced Technologies, we are also a military and government contractor.

There is no need to have a pissing contest over THG's blunders.

I already got my reply from Intel and they are correcting the problem. I asked that they provide the reviewers with the correct hardware. I went directly to the thermal group and spoke with the lead engineer.

"Yes, we have noticed that some reviewers run their tests in open chassis. Sometimes it’s hard to get people to change their habits, but we keep trying."

"I’m not sure what the deal is with the two heatsinks Tom’s is talking about. I’ll check with the team that sent out the systems and see what they have to say."

Pulling some string to get things done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FUGGER

The Intel is superior when more than two threads are used. It is superior at encoding and multimedia streaming.

It is a superior product when selling to big business and is accepted into military, government and educational sales. This is where AMD is rejected the most.

People who demand higher quality machines buy Intel

Professionals who need un comprimised stability buy Intel.

AMD is fine for the gamer and casaul home user who can overlook minor stability issues and willing to beat head against the wall over NF3/NF4 reboot issue for hours to eventually give up to only see the Windows splash screen.

The members of this site has killed hundreds of FX processors over the past few months. Some members killing upwards of a dozen. Weather it was too much vcore or too much vdimm they are still deaded.

You would be digging deep to find one dead P4 and near impossible to find two dead ones by the same person. Give it a rest about AMD being superior. Its all in you feeling you have ownage with your AMD cpu. :party3:

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LOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your crappy fanboyism is really stellar. Hilarious if you ask me.


OK, let's start:

Quote:

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It is superior at encoding and multimedia streaming.

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http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/a...00551/7402.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/a...00551/7403.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/a...00551/7412.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/a...00551/7404.png

Quote:

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It is a superior product when selling to big business and is accepted into military, government and educational sales. This is where AMD is rejected the most.

People who demand higher quality machines buy Intel

Professionals who need un comprimised stability buy Intel.

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http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/050404/083956.html

SEATTLE, WA -- 04/04/2005 -- Global supercomputing leader Cray Inc. (NasdaqNM:CRAY - News) today announced that it is teaming with government IT leader GTSI Corp. (NasdaqNM:GTSI - News) to offer the Cray XD1(TM) Opteron/Linux-based supercomputer to government agencies looking for powerful yet cost-effective supercomputing solutions. As a member of the recently launched Cray Channel Partner Program, GTSI will market the Cray XD1 system to a diverse customer base needing exceptional performance and scalability.

...

The Cray XD1 supercomputer has been adopted by a number of government organizations worldwide, including the Desert Research Institute in Reno and Las Vegas, Nevada; the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences in Manassas, Virginia; the U.S. Air Force Maui High Performance Computing Center on Maui, Hawaii; the Ohio Supercomputing Center in Columbus, Ohio; the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory in Richland, Washington; the Alabama Supercomputing Authority in Montgomery, Alabama; and the USDA Forest Service Fire Sciences Laboratory in Missoula, Montana.


More...

http://www.bioinfo-online.net/module...hp?storyid=237

A new supercomputing cluster designed for the phylogenetic research community has been installed at the San Diego Supercomputer Center. The Cluster, a 16 node, 8-way Fusion A8 by Western Scientific, features a total of 128 Opteron processors each with 4 GB memory, for a total of 0.5 TB memory. The cluster was purchased with a grant from the National Science Foundation in support of the CyberInfrastructure for Phylogenetic Research project, a collaboration of biologists, computer scientists, statisticians and mathematicians at 19 institutions whose goal is to understand the evolutionary relationships between all living organisms.


More...

http://www-1.ibm.com/solutions/plm/d...tml?g_type=rhc

Today, IBM announced that it has been selected by Volvo Car Corporation to build a powerful supercomputer to perform critical automobile crash simulations. IBM will provide both hardware and services to help increase the "design-for-safety" approach.

The new system includes more than 150 IBM eServer 325s with AMD Opteron Processors.


More...

http://investors.cray.com/phoenix.zh...202&highlight=

The Maui High Performance Computing Center (MHPCC), a U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory's Directed Energy Directorate facility, has chosen a Cray XD1(TM) supercomputer to increase the center's capabilities in space surveillance and image processing, according to global supercomputer leader Cray Inc. (Nasdaq:CRAY). This marks the first time MHPCC has acquired a supercomputing system from Cray. This order is part of a multi-order award with an aggregate value of over $23 million that Cray has received from the Department of Defense (DoD) High Performance Computing Modernization Program (HPCMP).

A Cray XD1 system with 288 AMD Opteron(TM) processors


more...

http://investors.cray.com/phoenix.zh...599&highlight=

Cray Tapped to Deliver One of World's Most Powerful Supercomputers for use by U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

Global supercomputer leader Cray Inc. (Nasdaq:CRAY) today announced that it has won an order to deliver one of the world's most powerful supercomputers to the computing center for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. This order is part of a multi-order award with an aggregate value of over $23 million that Cray has received from the DoD HPC Modernization Program.

... The Cray XT3 supercomputer uses AMD Opteron


more...

http://www.physorg.com/news745.html

At Siggraph today, AMD (NYSE: AMD) announced that AMD Opteron™ processor-based servers and workstations are providing the digital backbone for the final Star Wars prequel, Episode III: “Revenge of the Sith.” The AMD64 digital processing pipeline at JAK Films, the production company for Star Wars: Episode III, includes pre-visualization and pre-postproduction, which involves 3-D match moving, 3-D modeling, lighting, shading, texturing, compositing and rendering techniques. The AMD64 processor-based workstation systems are running Microsoft® Windows® XP Pro, Alias’ Maya and Adobe® After Effects software. AMD64 processor-based file server systems are running on clustered Microsoft Windows Storage Server 2003 software.

The full adoption of 64-bit capable AMD Opteron processor-based systems at JAK Films is the result of a long-standing relationship between AMD and the pioneering Pre-Visualization department at JAK Films. The relationship began during the making of Star Wars: Episode II and provided AMD with direct feedback from the world’s foremost digital content creators. JAK Films is now using AMD64 technology to reinvent the digital filmmaking process.


ok moooore..

http://digitalproducer.com/articles/...e.jsp?id=31974

AMD and DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc. announced a three-year strategic alliance naming AMD the Preferred Processor Provider for DreamWorks Animation and enabling the company to experience significant advantages in their computer-generated ("CG") filmmaking process.

As the Preferred Processor Provider for DreamWorks Animation, AMD will provide the AMD Opteron(TM) processor with Direct Connect Architecture for DreamWorks Animation's next-generation enterprise servers, workstations, render farm nodes, enterprise desktops and enterprise laptops. The new agreement with DreamWorks Animation also includes marketing opportunities for AMD to utilize characters from DreamWorks Animation motion pictures as well as work with DreamWorks Animation to promote upcoming film and home video releases.


Enough.

Quote:

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:party3:

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:party3: :party3: :party3:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PetNorth

*Snip*

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fanboy.. :slapass:

;)

ROFL, settle down grasshopper.

Owned :sick:

I have a recent addition to add to the thread.

Dont make me link up OPB's blow out.

Ya pete. Fugger's role probably demands he pimp intel. Been there done that myself. First of all even when something does go wrong you can always say "i used the best parts" because thats the common perception. Also ther's value added perception. Quite easy to charge 100-300% markups to corporate clients when using intel. Not so with AMD a "knock off" or "budget" product if you can even sell it, and that's a monumental task in and of itself, people will not go in for premium markups.

AMD is really fairly new. sure they've been around since Intel, but mainly as an embedded chip maker, and only with athlon got really competitive on the desktop and only with opterons on the business end... Look, it's going to take time to change peoples perception 4-5 years ain't going to do it. Hell, there's still lots of IT guys out there who will use nothing but horribly over-priced SUN and IBM servers/chips dispite even intels superior price/performance curves let alone AMD. Old habits die hard.

lol, these are over clockers, who in the hell, that uses their comp normally, and doesnt over clock, would put that much voltage into the cpu, or mod their mother boards, or mess with memory timings and voltages !?!?!?

stock voltages no mods just regular hard ware, apparently by the charts from north, amd is better

Trance my most recent FX 55 died at stock like others in that thread.

fugger you have a fx55 nice :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FUGGER

Trance my most recent FX 55 died at stock like others in that thread.

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but didnt you have it under phase?

It's all about what people are using, numbers. Sure inside enthusiast forums, right now, you're gong to hear about hella more AMD problems because that's what people are buying. Back when Northwood dominated the charts you heard lots of intel problems in the forums because that's what majority was buying then. I recall several threads at anandtech, bleeding edge and OC forums about sudden deaths P4C's. Nothing is perfect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FUGGER

ROFL, settle down grasshopper.

Owned :sick:

I have a recent addition to add to the thread.

Dont make me link up OPB's blow out.

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LOL

Quote:

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352 FSB

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Quote:

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-72C

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Quote:

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3.8 vdimm

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Quote:

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1.85+ Vcores

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etc etc etc :confused: :p:

If that's what you mean by AMD's failing. Pleaase use Intel. AMD can't afford you guys trashing thier strapped budget for RMAs. Intels got 30 billion, with a B, in the bank. Go tear it up. :D

Tum ta tum ta tum ta tum...Its that time of week again :)

When traces of flame baiting show up and the mods have to close the thread. So lets keep it on topic (THG's stress test) and not start to bash either chip manufacturers which is how this mess started in the first place.

Have a good one.

Perkam

I hate the fact that Intel system does'nt have case temp visible.

Intel CPU fan has been slowing slowly for hours but temps are not rising..
Maybe it's throttling or something ?

http://www.tomshardware.com/stresstest/intel.html

:horse:True.

Back to toms HW sucks. :party: :explode2:

Can someone explain to me the point of showing power for both systems together:wth:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hans.Gruber

I hate the fact that Intel system does'nt have case temp visible.

Intel CPU fan has been slowing slowly for hours but temps are not rising..
Maybe it's throttling or something ?

http://www.tomshardware.com/stresstest/intel.html

---

Germany is cold man. Get's cold at night.. probably ambeint of room temp is getting lower, allowing the fan to slow and still do the same job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zebo

Can someone explain to me the point of showing power for both systems together:wth:

---

You should ask something that is easy to give answer for.
Something like: "what's the meaning of life" or "where's the edge of universe"...

Heehee:)

Hey it looks like something wrong with the AMD box finally. Network is down for last two hours.

http://www.tomshardware.com/stresstest/amd.html

Yup AMD networks down.. Intels gaining while AMD scores are frozen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zebo

Yup AMD networks down.. Intels gaining while AMD scores are frozen.

---

I was wondering just why AMD scores are not increasing..

It seems that there is some action in the network stats, but very little.
Perhaps those are only from the server when it's trying to get connected..

And what the hell those white boxes are ??

http://www.tomshardware.com/stresstest/index.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FUGGER

The Intel is superior when more than two threads are used. It is superior at encoding and multimedia streaming.

It is a superior product when selling to big business and is accepted into military, government and educational sales. This is where AMD is rejected the most.

People who demand higher quality machines buy Intel

Professionals who need un comprimised stability buy Intel.

AMD is fine for the gamer and casaul home user who can overlook minor stability issues and willing to beat head against the wall over NF3/NF4 reboot issue for hours to eventually give up to only see the Windows splash screen.

The members of this site has killed hundreds of FX processors over the past few months. Some members killing upwards of a dozen. Weather it was too much vcore or too much vdimm they are still deaded.

You would be digging deep to find one dead P4 and near impossible to find two dead ones by the same person. Give it a rest about AMD being superior. Its all in you feeling you have ownage with your AMD cpu. :party3:

---

Dear god, please tell me you are joking. I've had waaay too long a day to even bother responding to this tripe. So let's just touch the last point. SNDS.


The amd deaths weren't limited to FX. They affected all athlons and the problem vanished before Newcastle was released. Also, we did figure out the problem. 95% of cases involved 3.2vdimm+. The other 5% were problem a mixture of people who shorted something at a bad time and didn't realize it, ran the damn thing to hot and didn't know/care, or just got one of those rare doomed chips that will die with no cause and are the reason Warranty's exist. Just too bad they also happened to be overclockers/modders who voided their warranty's. Also, the problem was very close to exclusive to shuttle's AN50R.


Edit: Though I'd just LOVE for you to make another thread explaining exactly what you refer to by "higher quality machines".


I used to hang around an investment board, then the owner started getting paid $10,000 a week to flood his board with BS about P&D's. Everyone who was worth anything to the board left shortly after.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hans.Gruber

This should not become "Last fanboy standing" thread, but im going to say something anyway..

Intel has the marketing, it has the money to market and affect peoples opinions.
People - especially in the US - thinks that Intel is same as CPU, that there is no options.
Or if they know that there are options, they believe that Intel is better.

That what Intel has. It has no better stability, it has no better performance, it has no better value for the money.

Companies like IBM, HP, Supermicro, Sun, Cray, etc, do NOT build unrelieable systems, yet they use AMD cpu's.

I almost forgot what Intel has too, it has DELL, and DELL has Intel by the balls. :)

I have a suggestion: Lets leave this AMD vs Intel thing, lets just laugh at THG frying CPU's, and to what funny explanations they have this time. :D

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Hear, *&%^ing hear.

Boxes??!?!

The edge, we can theoretically see, is 12 billion light years away.

Some drunk in toms "lab" prolly fell over the network cable and disconneted it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zebo

Boxes??!?!

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Yes, those white boxes on screen in both systems, i wonder what those are.
This puzzle has been bugging me for some time now, i need answers.. :)