ASUS Z87 Motherboards - Overview, Guides and Official Support

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Originally Posted by cadaveca

HERO has amazing audio, better than Extreme6 in my testing. Working on my review of the Extreme6 right now, actually. I have some performance issues with EX6 I am trying to figure out, OC isn't holding what I set and I see multi drop about 300 MHz like it's running default Intel Turbo with raised multis. Could be a cooling thing for the board since I pulled VRM coolers for VRM pics, but I replaced and contact seems good. Still trying to figure it out, honestly, but today is the last day I spend on it. See anything like that with yours?

My HERO review is here, so you can check RMAA results for HERO:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...XIMUS_VI_HERO/

RMAA results for EX6 has high SNR, but also, more noise.

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Thanks, did you happen to notice any differences in how much EMI / interfearence the boards pick up? The ASRock Extreme6 to me has unacceptably much EMI noise (HDD activity, mouse interfearence, high system load etc). It's one of the reasons I wanna swap boards in fact, I'm using a headphone amp so ofc it will be worse then but I love the sound of the amp so I'd just prefer to find an onboard solution (I also happen to like how the soundstage sounds like on Realtek when set to 5.1 speakers when using headphones) that just has low enough static interfearence from the rest of the components, at least as low as my ALC889A chip I had before... it wasn't actually low but yea much lower than with the ASRock board at least... Getting popping sound often when minimizing & maximizing a window and the HDD activity can be heard a bit with a buzzing/popping sound (depends on the vol set on the amp, at full volume and lower Realtek output vol which was borderline acceptable on the old ALC889A chip but very unacceptable on the Extreme6, so have to lower the amp volume a lot with this Extreme6 but it is still very much there and then it also sounds a bit worse than if using a bit higher vol setting on the amp and lower vol on the source so basically I'd want to be able to go high on the amp vol without getting that noise).

And yes I've tried 3rd party soundcards including ASUS D2, Titanium HD and SoundBlaster ZxR but I just prefer the way soundstage is portrayed with onboard (when using 5.1 speakers with my headphones), the ZxR while having excellent quality especially in the midrange sounds, has very closed-in sound compared to onboard no matter how the speaker config is setup.

EDIT: I haven't specifically payed much attention to the performance yet but it feels a bit sluggish at times maybe. Running at a modest 4.4GHz only but it does so with ease though and it seemed much more difficult to get 4.5GHz stable. But with the ASUS board I will very likely give another go at trying to push to 4.5-4.6GHz as the temps are very low still.

With how I test, noise and interference as well as interchannel leakage is about 100x better(literally) on the HERO vs EX6, and HERO is better at audio reproduction, too. The EX6 is a few dB louder.

I haven't used the HERO too much, honestly, just while doing the review, so a couple of weeks. I definitely notice the difference between the two, but I'm kinda picky about sound..not in an audiophile way, but as a musician. So what's good to me, might not exactly be what you are looking for...but I can say that the noise difference(one of the main things I noticed) is HUGE.

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Originally Posted by cadaveca

With how I test, noise and interference as well as interchannel leakage is about 100x better(literally) on the HERO vs EX6, and HERO is better at audio reproduction, too. The EX6 is a few dB louder.

I haven't used the HERO too much, honestly, just while doing the review, so a couple of weeks. I definitely notice the difference between the two, but I'm kinda picky about sound..not in an audiophile way, but as a musician. So what's good to me, might not exactly be what you are looking for...but I can say that the noise difference(one of the main things I noticed) is HUGE.

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OK, that's good =) Didn't expect much about ppl able to comment on audio here as A) this is XtremeSystems and B) Realtek onboard audio is usually sneezed at xD Would be cool to know for certain if GENE and HERO have pretty similar results or if one or the other is better in this regard. At least ASUS says GENE has 115dB SNR... equally high as Extreme6 so they should be roughly equally loud before distortion kicks in or the noise floor is lower, it doesn't say for HERO, usually doesn't say means it's usually not as good (doesn't have to be like that but often is...)

And no I don't mean higher SNR rating automaticly would mean less noise or better quality but I'm interested in if there's ANY difference (opamp or caps or whatever) between HERO and GENE which differing specs could probably reveal. Then I could dig up more info on those components to know what should at least theoretically have less noise looking at the paper specs...

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Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD

OK, that's good =) Didn't expect much about ppl able to comment on audio here as A) this is XtremeSystems and B) Realtek onboard audio is usually sneezed at xD Would be cool to know for certain if GENE and HERO have pretty similar results or if one or the other is better in this regard. At least ASUS says GENE has 115dB SNR... equally high as Extreme6, it doesn't say for HERO, usually doesn't say means it's usually not as good (doesn't have to be like that but often is...)

And no I don't mean higher SNR rating would mean less noise or better quality but I'm interested in if there's ANY difference (opamp or caps or whatever) between HERO and GENE which differing specs could probably reveal.

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I never reach the SNR that most OEMs report. I do have ASUS's guide on how to replicate their results, but prefer my own method, which seems pretty good at picking out actual noise from other bits on the board(although I do test in basically the same way they tell reviewers to).

I do have the GENE as well, but haven't got to it yet, and might not for a couple of weeks yet. I'm not the sort to comment on stuff unless I have the hardware in my hands and have tried it, so I cannot offer you any info about the GENE vs the HERO. I haven't even taken the GENE out of the box yet, and wasn't planning to until August. Oh crap..it's almost August now, isn't it? LOL.

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Originally Posted by cadaveca

I do have the GENE as well, but haven't got to it yet, and might not for a couple of weeks yet. I'm not the sort to comment on stuff unless I have the hardware in my hands and have tried it, so I cannot offer you any info about the GENE vs the HERO. I haven't even taken the GENE out of the box yet, and wasn't planning to until August. Oh crap..it's almost August now, isn't it? LOL.

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Damn, you wouldn't be able to speed up the review of GENE would you!? :D Don't know if I could wait for weeks, I'd pretty much wanna get a new mobo ASAP haha. I'd be pretty devastated if I afterwards got to learn GENE actually produces a bit better results than HERO and both boards costs the same etc.... :/

Hey Dave, what do the RMAA results look like for Extreme 6? I would like to see side by side vs Hero, do you have that?

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Originally Posted by Eldonko

Hey Dave, what do the RMAA results look like for Extreme 6? I would like to see side by side vs Hero, do you have that?

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Of course. You can check the HERO review for the HERO results, here's the EX6, although the review isn't live yet. Will be soon.:

http://img.techpowerup.org/130723/rmaa.jpg

Wow, pretty big difference. Thanks.

NP. It's not that that ASRock board has bad audio, for me, it's about average for decent onboard, rather than just normal on-board.



But the HERO audio is just truly exceptional.

I think i might have a problem with UEFI settings, namely the HDD boot orders (it wont stick to my SSD and gets stuck in a boot/reset loop for ever until you catch it and go into the UEFI).

Also, somewhat less importantly - but still annoyingly as I have Windows 8 set to require a PIN at logon - the numlock doesn't default to 'on' even though this is set in BIOS 1205.

@Raja @LardArse

Is there a way to fix the tWTR. Set 9 and get 10. So far Arock Timing Configurator shows all the settings including tWR and tWTR.

btw is there any formula for tCPDEN/tRDPDEN and whats cmd_strech?? Anyway to change both??

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Originally Posted by cadaveca

Of course. You can check the HERO review for the HERO results, here's the EX6, although the review isn't live yet. Will be soon.:

http://img.techpowerup.org/130723/rmaa.jpg

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Wow that is quite depressing THD noise figure on the ASRock Extreme6, I dug up some measurements on ALC889A, which my previous board had and it had like -76~78 dB(A) depending on settings used. Guess this explains the EMI too with the ASRock board. They have very good Dynamic Range (probably top-of-the-line onboard-wise without going to special "Sound Core3D" chips / Creative onboard solutions which seem to give an additional or so 3-5dB dynamic range. Seems like the ASRock implementation is rather shoddy, they only cared about getting some nice output figures but forgot about the noise....

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Originally Posted by cstkl1

@Raja @LardArse

Is there a way to fix the tWTR. Set 9 and get 10. So far Arock Timing Configurator shows all the settings including tWR and tWTR.

btw is there any formula for tCPDEN/tRDPDEN and whats cmd_strech?? Anyway to change both??

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think Shammy alread said these are offset so no reported in UEFI - that's how it actually works. OS reading could be bugged or whatever as well.

As for tCPDEN etc - these are power saving features, time from a transaction to power down. If you disable all power saving features of DRAM I wouldn't bother with this kind of "tweaking" myself. I am being sarcastic with that comment, but I think you'll get what I mean :P

The salient tweak features of this chipset are already pointed out in the guides. If you want to move outside that - don't expect much if any return for your efforts.

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Originally Posted by cadaveca

I never reach the SNR that most OEMs report.

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http://www.ap.com/


A dedicated audio analyzer from those guys is what one needs to measure this stuff properly - unfortunately it falls beyond the scope of most can use etc. Thats what we use at HQ to measure our stuff for the SNR figures in the marketing materials.

RMAA loopback testing is limited by the input SNR/dynamic range as well - so there will always be offset between the actual SNR/DR and what one can get with RMAA. The guides on RMAA are written so one can set the software up and at least get to the best possible measurement - hardware/software limitations of this form of testing withstanding.

-Raja

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Originally Posted by cstkl1

[@Praz][@Dumo][@owikh]

At what ram speed u have to up the tRDRD from perfect 4.

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I think Raja has already stated somewhere that most memory is going to top out around 2400MHz with tRDRD at 4. Testing the tRDRD value against memory speed will need to be done for max performance. If a system can only reach 2300MHz memory speed because of tRDRD being at 4 and setting it to 5 allows for 2350MHz this tradeoff will not be worthwhile. Performance will surely be better at 2300MHz memory speed and tRDRD at 4. However if changing only tRDRD to 5 allows the memory to be run at say 2500MHz this increase in memory speed will provide more performance than the 1 clock hit of tRDRD .

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Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS

think Shammy alread said these are offset so no reported in UEFI - that's how it actually works. OS reading could be bugged or whatever as well.

As for tCPDEN etc - these are power saving features, time from a transaction to power down. If you disable all power saving features of DRAM I wouldn't bother with this kind of "tweaking" myself. I am being sarcastic with that comment, but I think you'll get what I mean :P

The salient tweak features of this chipset are already pointed out in the guides. If you want to move outside that - don't expect much if any return for your efforts.

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Ok got it but found how to change the twtr already flukishly.both of u helped alot so far... So the dream is to have a 40k read/write/copy so just trying to get a understanding on the timings to solve the 2600 1t trdrd4 issue. 2t np fully stable.

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Originally Posted by Praz

I think Raja has already stated somewhere that most memory is going to top out around 2400MHz with tRDRD at 4. Testing the tRDRD value against memory speed will need to be done for max performance. If a system can only reach 2300MHz memory speed because of tRDRD being at 4 and setting it to 5 allows for 2350MHz this tradeoff will not be worthwhile. Performance will surely be better at 2300MHz memory speed and tRDRD at 4. However if changing only tRDRD to 5 allows the memory to be run at say 2500MHz this increase in memory speed will provide more performance than the 1 clock hit of tRDRD .

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I got it up to 2600 c10 but in 2t fully stable. 1t is being at odds with me but some progress on it. hence needed some lines on where it taps out...since u guys have tested more kits and samsung 2600 n 2666 in particular

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Originally Posted by cstkl1

Ok got it but found how to change the twtr already flukishly.

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Change values till you get what you want. Min internal spacing for this will be 4 clocks - not many DIMMs will do that at high freq.

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Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS

think Shammy alread said these are offset so no reported in UEFI - that's how it actually works. OS reading could be bugged or whatever as well.

As for tCPDEN etc - these are power saving features, time from a transaction to power down. If you disable all power saving features of DRAM I wouldn't bother with this kind of "tweaking" myself. I am being sarcastic with that comment, but I think you'll get what I mean :P

The salient tweak features of this chipset are already pointed out in the guides. If you want to move outside that - don't expect much if any return for your efforts.

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Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS

Change values till you get what you want. Min internal spacing for this will be 4 clocks - not many DIMMs will do that at high freq.

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nah i always like my trtp and twtr to be the same. Not aiming for minimum. Cause at default theres a issue with memtest, on cold boot it always shows error on test 1. But rerun or restart it disappears. Changing this solved it. Just seriously want 2600 1t.

Btw thanks for making this board. Its awesome.

My biggest headache with haswell is digital i/o n twrwr_dr/dd. this is whats stopping me atm. Also need this to be stable to have a shot at 2666 . Personally gut feeling is telling me this is where trdrd 4 taps out.

If any board can do it .. It will be m6e at 4x4gb. The exact settings to make 2400mhz 1t work is what did the trick for 2600 2t. So hoping 2600 1t will do for 2666 2t

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Originally Posted by cstkl1

nah i always like my trtp and twtr to be the same.

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You are confining yourself for no reason there. Unless you keep both at 4 clocks (which is simply their minimum time based upon burst lengths), there is no correlation to keep these the same for peace of mind.

PRECHARGE closes a page, tRTP sets the delay between the last read transaction and tRP. tWTR is simply the delay between a write transaction and a read. The two settings are not mutually related in any way that would require you to confine yourself to the rule you state.

Anyway, the rest of your dimlemma is simply a matter of taking your time and working out what's right for you - don't worry about what other people can or can't run. IO can depend on many things so one is best advised to tune themselves gradually if so inclined. One persons stable is another persons unstable too - I have heard of people running tRDRD at 4 over DDR3-2800 on Ln2, does not mean we can all do it. For 24/7 systems most people will find that stress tests will start failing past DDR3-2400 if the bus is loaded - both the DIMMs and memory controller will need more overvoltage than many are willing to run on their systems to go any higher even if it were possible. Plus, the performance change in everyday systems is too small for many people to worry about. The only place this stuff starts to matter a lot is Super Pi 32M.

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Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS

You are confining yourself for no reason there. Unless you keep both at 4 clocks (which is simply their minimum time based upon burst lengths), there is no correlation to keep these the same for peace of mind.

PRECHARGE closes a page, tRTP sets the delay between the last read transaction and tRP. tWTR is simply the delay between a write transaction and a read. The two settings are not mutually related in any way that would require you to confine yourself to the rule you state.

Anyway, the rest of your dimlemma is simply a matter of taking your time and working out what's right for you - don't worry about what other people can or can't run. IO can depend on many things so one is best advised to tune themselves gradually if so inclined. One persons stable is another persons unstable too - I have heard of people running tRDRD at 4 over DDR3-2800 on Ln2, does not mean we can all do it. For 24/7 systems most people will find that stress tests will start failing past DDR3-2400 if the bus is loaded - both the DIMMs and memory controller will need more overvoltage than many are willing to run on their systems to go any higher even if it were possible. Plus, the performance change in everyday systems is too small for many people to worry about. The only place this stuff starts to matter a lot is Super Pi 32M.

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Noted. I havent seen 2800 trdrd 4. Highest i saw was 27xx

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Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS

http://www.ap.com/


A dedicated audio analyzer from those guys is what one needs to measure this stuff properly - unfortunately it falls beyond the scope of most can use etc. Thats what we use at HQ to measure our stuff for the SNR figures in the marketing materials.

RMAA loopback testing is limited by the input SNR/dynamic range as well - so there will always be offset between the actual SNR/DR and what one can get with RMAA. The guides on RMAA are written so one can set the software up and at least get to the best possible measurement - hardware/software limitations of this form of testing withstanding.

-Raja

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:up:

Yeah, I didn't mean to say that your reporting is flawed, rather my environment is different. That said, I still manage to replicate audio performance characteristics in a reasonable manner that manages to show the differences between audio designs, and was more reflecting on my "test equipment" than your testing methods. The given guide mentions the basics, cable used, disabling audio "enhancing" software, etc, but I built my own cable and use far different settings in RMAA than you guys suggest. It's not a big deal, at all, in my books, but I do feel the distinction has to be made that what I do, and you guys suggest, are different.


And the HERO audio stands out, big time, in my testing, and you guys deserve some congratulations on a job well done there.

I understand. :)

Formula is another level up this round on the audio side as well.

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Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS

I understand. :)

Formula is another level up this round on the audio side as well.

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Please, can you confirm whether Gene and Hero uses exactly same configs, it mentions 115dB SNR on Gene but says nada about Hero why I get a little suspicious. I hope noise-wise they are pretty the same as I'd prefer Hero slightly if both was the same but if Gene was even slightly better (even say 1dB lower THD Noise for example), I'd go for Gene... :P Don't expect you to know about this but if you happen to know, then please share as then I might be able to decide which one to purchase sooner. :)

so are you guys saying i can get rid of the the X-Fi Titanium card and feel no difference in audio quality if I go for the Maximus VI Hero? (btw, I am no audiophile)

Question for Raja@ASUS: you mentioned on page 10 of this thread that if you are if you are using only two memory modules use the red slots which does go against what the manual for the Maximus VI Extreme says.

Is that what you recommend regardless of the memory speed or module size?

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Originally Posted by djt

Question for Raja@ASUS: you mentioned on page 10 of this thread that if you are if you are using only two memory modules use the red slots which does go against what the manual for the Maximus VI Extreme says.

Is that what you recommend regardless of the memory speed or module size?

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Use the red slots - manual is misleading on that. T-topology routing for this gen favors the red slots (1&3) over the black.

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Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD

Please, can you confirm whether Gene and Hero uses exactly same configs, it mentions 115dB SNR on Gene but says nada about Hero why I get a little suspicious. I hope noise-wise they are pretty the same as I'd prefer Hero slightly if both was the same but if Gene was even slightly better (even say 1dB lower THD Noise for example), I'd go for Gene... :P Don't expect you to know about this but if you happen to know, then please share as then I might be able to decide which one to purchase sooner. :)

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Gene uses a different layout/op-amp. Will get full specifics later.

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Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS

Use the red slots - manual is misleading on that. T-topology routing for this gen favors the red slots (1&3) over the black.

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Thanks again for the help and quick response.

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Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD

Please, can you confirm whether Gene and Hero uses exactly same configs, it mentions 115dB SNR on Gene but says nada about Hero why I get a little suspicious. I hope noise-wise they are pretty the same as I'd prefer Hero slightly if both was the same but if Gene was even slightly better (even say 1dB lower THD Noise for example), I'd go for Gene... :P Don't expect you to know about this but if you happen to know, then please share as then I might be able to decide which one to purchase sooner. :)

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Gene has an opamp buffer (TI 4580), the Hero doesn't. The buffer should make the output a bit more linear at frequency extremes and aid a bit in noise reduction on the output of the ALC 1150 (differential input CMRR of the 4580 is circa 80dB).

-Raja

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Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS

Gene has an opamp buffer (TI 4580), the Hero doesn't. The buffer should make the output a bit more linear at frequency extremes and aid a bit in noise reduction on the output of the ALC 1150 (differential input CMRR of the 4580 is circa 80dB).

-Raja

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Thanks for the quick response, you rock! It was exactly like I suspected then, Gene having an opamp and Hero doesn't. But it doesn't totally make it easier for me to decide though, I will be using my own "amp" (it's a bit special amp design why it shouldn't be treated as a traditional one, being fully analog design for example) and it also makes the EMI noise a bit louder (unacceptably loud on this new Z87 ASRock board I got). My biggest priority would be getting as low EMI noise interfearence as possible, this is by far the number one priority in my case. That's where I don't know whether having an onboard opamp is more beneficial or destructive as from my experience with at least external amps, they tend to increase the volume of the noise unless you have some more expensier ones which filters out the noise. I'm not either any guru on these things so can't really theoretically say how it should work.

But I'm thinking logically; ALC889A which I had with my previous socket setup didn't have any onboard opamp and noise was MUUUUCH LOWER than on the ASRock Extreme6 (featuring ALC1150 + TI NE5532 opamp) however in the ASRock case I doubt the difference lie in the opamp alone but yea it gives food for thought...

Have you like any ideas about these things or is able to get further info about it whether Gene or Hero should be having lower EMI noise interfearence (buzzing, popping, chirping sound due to HDD, mouse activity, high system load etc), at least on the paper. This would be so much appriciated, ordering one of these boards will take some while here when I'm from Finland, neither am I too keen on testing both Gene and Hero to find out... I'd just wanna get a board with acceptably low onboard chip EMI noise interfearence so I can totally forget that and focus on overclocking and actually enjoying my new setup without having to pull my hair out. Ty :)

I'll elaborate a bit on my previous response - the answer you seek is kinda in there, but it's brief.

It depends where the EMI is entering the system from. Note I said noise on the outputs of the chipset to the opamp. A differential pair will reject any noise that is common on both signal lines. That's why the figure is quoted as CMRR - the common mode rejection ratio. So if noise is bleeding into the system at some point between the chipset and the op-amp side, if it is common mode, the op-amp should reject a lot of it.

Differential signals pairs are closely routed so that any spurious or noise on the lines remains as close to identical as possible on the pair - as the differential input is only concerned on the potential difference between the pair, noise that is common on both sides is rejected. In an ideal sense, you'd keep the signal in the differential domain as long as possible while routing, before single ended conversion, because of the CMRR of differential signaling.

One has to bear in mind that CMRR is cumulative throughout a system - the CMRR of the chipset and opamps and the ripple rejection of active power regulation are all additive. Pushing noise down lower outside audible range. But, we are only talking about noise that has bled through into the system prior to these devices and particular types of noise (frequency matters as specified noise rejection of active devices is frequency dependent, with lower rejection at higher frequency).

If the noise is entering the chain towards the output side of the circuit then that's a different story. However, good layout, careful shielding and decoupling should prevent most of the noise being audible. I can't speculate more than that as environmental effects will vary from system to system. PCs are noisy environments at the best of times.

-Raja

What I'm curious to know is if the noise is entering the audio chain AFTER the opamp and before the analog output which I'm suspecting is happening on the ASRock board, will the noise be further amplified by the opamp then too and it would give me less issues if there wasn't an opamp in there in that case? connecting my external headphone amp to the onboard it's got way more audible EMI noise at equal output volume (higher amp vol setting) and lower onboard audio volume compared to no amp with higher onboard volume for similar percieved levels. I'm obviously interested if the opamp will do the same in that case, then I might be better off without opamp.

If the op-amp is in unity-gain then I don't see why it would be any worse than the voltage outputs of the chipset. No clear cut answers to your questions unfortunately. You'll never know for sure, you may get less noise or no noise with a good onboard audio solution or soundcard, but you'll never know til you try it. As it's a deal breaker of sorts to you, you need to make a decision on whether you want to take this out of the equation and save from the concern of it all for good and I can think of one way to do that; get an external DAC that is not susceptible to PC noise.

Can't help you any more than that, sorry.

-Raja

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Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS

If the op-amp is in unity-gain then I don't see why it would be any worse than the voltage outputs of the chipset. No clear cut answers to your questions unfortunately. You'll never know for sure, you may get less noise or no noise with a good onboard audio solution or soundcard, but you'll never know til you try it. As it's a deal breaker of sorts to you, you need to make a decision on whether you want to take this out of the equation and save from the concern of it all for good and I can think of one way to do that; get an external DAC that is not susceptible to PC noise.

Can't help you any more than that, sorry.

-Raja

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It's okay, you already helped a lot and wasn't expecting you to be able to provide a clear response on this matter to begin with. Why I'm caring so much about the onboard sound chip though is that I've actually tried several 3rd party solutions like ASUS Xonar D2, Titanium HD and even the new flagship Creative card SoundBlaster ZxR card, yet I keep returning to onboard, there is just something about the soundstaging and positioning that works so well for me if using 5.1 speaker config with headphones. The ZxR no matter how I set it up sounds so much closed-in in comparison despite I ofc acknowledge it has very nice quality especially in the midfrequencies, still it's like you win some and you lose some so for that much price it's unacceptable. So basically I can't buy what I want! What I'd buy in a heartbeat would be paying for the best possible ALC1150 solution (good quality caps, switchable opamps etc) on a separate addon card (to avoid EMI noise!), I would even pay $50 for such addon Realtek card haha xD

Anyway in my case, the best thing is to wait for the review on the Gene board by cadaveca (I think it was spelled like that? lol) here who already reviewed the Hero and Extreme6 that I sit with currently as he will be testing with the same settings under the same environment and he happens to care about the sound too being a musician so he has some better insight into it than the typical overclocker/gamer focused reviewer at least... then I'd pick based on his feedback & measurement.

I can relate to some of that. I have a mix of tube and solid state gear here and they all have different flavors. For driving my HD800 headphones, I like using the Essence One with MUSES op-amps or using my 3A5 dual triode DAC output stage with amorphous transformers. For stereo output i use 300B SE amps driving open baffle speakers. We all have different tastes and needs. :)

Z87-Pro has an update for AI-Charger:

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Ai Charger+ Update Pack V1.00.00 for Windows 7/8 32bit & 64bit.
Ai Charger+ Update Pack V1.00.00 for Windows 7/8 32bit & 64bit.
Note: If your Ai Charger+ version is 3.01.00, please install this Update Pack

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However, whenever I try to install this on my Win7 64 system, I get "your operating system does not support this update". Has anyone managed to get this installed, or has Asus put the wrong/bugged file up?

Looks like the AiCharger_Win7_8_VER30101 update is also broken - it starts an installshield setup, then never does any actual installation.

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Originally Posted by Pants-Of-Fire

Z87-Pro has an update for AI-Charger:

However, whenever I try to install this on my Win7 64 system, I get "your operating system does not support this update". Has anyone managed to get this installed, or has Asus put the wrong/bugged file up?

Looks like the AiCharger_Win7_8_VER30101 update is also broken - it starts an installshield setup, then never does any actual installation.

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I found out these two updates are broken from Asus. They are listed as for Windows 7 64 bit, but they run as a Operating System Context mode for Vista, and so will never install on Windows 7/8.

What sort of updates does EZ Update in the AI suite actually list? It doesn't ever seem to pick up available updated software that is listed on the website downloads page.

M6I tests

Ram @ 3500+

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7471/pk8t.jpg

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7438/yxqz.png

Asking on behalf of my friend from LYN forum.

Something wrong with the turbo clock for i5 4670 (non-K)
MCE is set to AUTO (BIOS only has AUTO/DISABLE)
Core0,1,2,3 Ratio Limit set to 38x

http://imageshack.us/a/img153/7922/22nv.png

But the load multi is max at 36x only as shown below. BIOS is 0711. Isn't it supposed to be 38x max?

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/783/i0r.png

its fixed in 0035 or ask him to manually enable c3/c6

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LardArse

its fixed in 0035 or ask him to manually enable c3/c6

---

It's the Hero okay i will ask him to enable the c3/c6 :D

i think the latest 00xxx is also fixed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS

BTW if you are using only two memory modules, use the red slots.

---

Are you referring to the M6E and if you are would using the black slots cause the OCCT CPU test with 64 Bits and AVX Linpack checked to fail?

I have a 4770K with a M6E and a GSkill Trident C11 2800MHz 8GB kit that I have not been able to get OCCT to pass the CPU 64 Bits AVX Linpack. I was finally able to get it to pass yesterday afternoon at a dram freq of 2400MHz and a NB of 3900MHz with the CPU at 4.4GHz.

I am going to try the dram at 2800MHz with the NB at 3900MHz tonight and I would like to know if having the ram in the black slots will affect the test passing / system stability.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by idahosurge

Are you referring to the M6E and if you are would using the black slots cause the OCCT CPU test with 64 Bits and AVX Linpack checked to fail?

I have a 4770K with a M6E and a GSkill Trident C11 2800MHz 8GB kit that I have not been able to get OCCT to pass the CPU 64 Bits AVX Linpack. I was finally able to get it to pass yesterday afternoon at a dram freq of 2400MHz and a NB of 3900MHz with the CPU at 4.4GHz.

I am going to try the dram at 2800MHz with the NB at 3900MHz tonight and I would like to know if having the ram in the black slots will affect the test passing / system stability.

---

yes it will , recommend to use red slots

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LardArse

yes it will , recommend to use red slots

---

Thanks for the confirmation!

I have a GTX780 in slot 2 (PCIe 3.0/2.0_x16_A2 in my M6E. I have it in slot 2 because my SB-E x2 HSF interferes with slot 1.

The manual says slot 1 in for single vga, but is also says slot one is set to x8 by default if any of the other PCIe 3.0/2.0 slots are occupied.

BIOS says the GPU is set to x16. GPU-Z says the GTX780 is set to x16. Everything seems to run fine and I am getting 3DMark06 scores of 365XX and 368XX at a 4.4GHz OC with NB at 3900MHz and ram at 2400MHz.

Is there anything wrong with me having the card in slot 2 instead of slot 1? Even though everything seems to run fine I thought that I would ask.

slot 1 is native directly to the cpu while slot 2 is via PLX bridge, the recommended slot 1 was just so u get a slight perf benefit by running directly to the cpu stead of via plx

Once again thanks!

I am using M6E BIOS 0711.

After I have already set this and F10 out of BIOS I have noticed that when I go back into BIOS and I change my CPU Vcore value it changes my CPU CORE RATIO from PER CORE back to SYNC ALL CORES then I have to go back and change it back to PER CORE. When you change it back my CPU RATIO LIMIT blanked out for all four cores and I had to put those values back in.

Is this a bug in the BIOS because I do not think that settings in BIOS should change on there own!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS

Use the red slots - manual is misleading on that. T-topology routing for this gen favors the red slots (1&3) over the black.

---

I'm using Hero. Am i use red slots too ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ziwro

I'm using Hero. Am i use red slots too ?

---

Yes. As Raja typed in the part you quoted slots one and three get the edge because of T-Topology trace routing.

What about DIMM slots on these boards?


http://img.techpowerup.org/130729/DSCF0008.jpg


:rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by idahosurge

I am using M6E BIOS 0711.

After I have already set this and F10 out of BIOS I have noticed that when I go back into BIOS and I change my CPU Vcore value it changes my CPU CORE RATIO from PER CORE back to SYNC ALL CORES then I have to go back and change it back to PER CORE. When you change it back my CPU RATIO LIMIT blanked out for all four cores and I had to put those values back in.

Is this a bug in the BIOS because I do not think that settings in BIOS should change on there own!

---

its due to a relational synchronization between fully manual mode enabled & per core & c3/6
per core works normally only with c3/c6
fully manual mode cannot work together with c3/c6 since c6 wants to drop the vcore to 0v while fully manual mode wants to keep it at set volts. this is in contradiction.
therefore per core with set values will blank out fully manual mode and vice versa.

M6I is better in mem OC. It overclocks this CFR surpassing 3100+ when its elder bro can't.

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/q...I/DSC_0161.jpg

3250 12-15-15-35-2T @ 1.75v

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3488/m5mu.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LardArse

its due to a relational synchronization between fully manual mode enabled & per core & c3/6
per core works normally only with c3/c6
fully manual mode cannot work together with c3/c6 since c6 wants to drop the vcore to 0v while fully manual mode wants to keep it at set volts. this is in contradiction.
therefore per core with set values will blank out fully manual mode and vice versa.

---

Okay

If purely overclockability concerned, should I go for the Z87 Pro or the Maximus VI Hero?
What I'm asking is, could one of them be able to achieve the same clocks with a less Vcore than the other (because even a 0.005V matters)?

One more thing. Not really regarding the motherboard, but will having 4x4GB sticks lower the chances of achieving a higher CPU OC compared to 2x8GB sticks, if the memory is only rated at 1600MHz?

Haswell handles larger DIMMs better than Ivy Bridge, so 4x4GB vs 2x8GB isn't going to make a difference at 1600MHz. As far as overclockability goes, as I understand it all of the Asus Z87 boards are going to get the same clocks on air or water in term of CPU speed, but the ROG boards will get farther on LN2/other extreme cooling and overclock memory better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiranui Gen-An

Haswell handles larger DIMMs better than Ivy Bridge, so 4x4GB vs 2x8GB isn't going to make a difference at 1600MHz. As far as overclockability goes, as I understand it all of the Asus Z87 boards are going to get the same clocks on air or water in term of CPU speed, but the ROG boards will get farther on LN2/other extreme cooling and overclock memory better.

---

Thanks. So, for normal 24/7 OC, they should perform the same right?

Since 4 DIMMs @1600 won't be an issue, I'll keep mine as they are.

One more question. How does the SupremeFX chip perform compared to X-Fi Titanium audio card? Do they perform on par of each other, or the Titanium is still better?

Sorry about all the spam regarding onboard audio but I was really set on to order a VI Gene but then I happened to find this http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/...und-issue.html

There's also a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q6rEhXSrGI

What should one make out of this, defect motherboard or faulty design? Appearently it only happens with the op-amp powered green jack and I'd specifically buy that board to use it with that output... I don't want to kill my ears or headphones in the process too... but from all the research I've done this board is still the one to get if you want the best Realtek audio solution around (MSI's has pretty bad sound quality for an ALC1150 chip solution, ASRock suffers from noise issues, Gigabyte doesn't use opamps and only for the SoundCore3D chip integrated solutions) so I'd really want this Gene VI...

I'd contact your local ASUS service dept if your board does that.

Can anyone explain how do I get QuickSync working with ROG MVI Hero without the LucidVirtu software when my GTX670 is also there?

Impact @ 3600 ram air single

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/8215/jzn3.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anusha

Can anyone explain how do I get QuickSync working with ROG MVI Hero without the LucidVirtu software when my GTX670 is also there?

---

You will need to use Virtu MVP.

I saw Andre used older MemTweakIt 1.02 the drop down arrows are not greyed out maybe this particular version can adjust timings in OS?

http://iamxtreme.net/andre/M6E-5G-1.jpg

Where can I get the v1.02?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Praz

You will need to use Virtu MVP.

---

that's a shame. wonder why Asus boards don't carry MVP license.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anusha

that's a shame. wonder why Asus boards don't carry MVP license.

---

Guess Lucid also needs to make their business but would be cool to have it automaticly licensed as it would be part of the package IMO. Just like one simply downloads Realtek drivers to make the onboard audio chip work etc. But then it's up to the motherboard manufacturers to decide whether it's worth licensing it or not, probably most doesn't think it's worth the cost yet.

Hmmmm.... my onboard audio madventures continues... I was very pleased and even surprised when I fired up this VI Gene board to hear NO EMI noise AT ALL even at max amp volume it was dead silent when browing around the internet.

But then I started listening to the audio quality of the VI Gene and I'm not very happy, it's kind of muffled, both compared to ASRock Z87 Extreme6 and the old ALC889A chip on my Gigabyte P55-UD5, missing some sparkle and mids too, very bass dominant and not of overly good quality either. It's like even bassier than a SoundBlaster ZxR that I already thought was on the bassy side....

I thought mem timings were locked and not adjustable in windows regardless of software. Raja can you confirm?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by owikh84

I saw Andre used older MemTweakIt 1.02 the drop down arrows are not greyed out maybe this particular version can adjust timings in OS?

Where can I get the v1.02?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by owikh84

I saw Andre used older MemTweakIt 1.02 the drop down arrows are not greyed out maybe this particular version can adjust timings in OS?

http://iamxtreme.net/andre/M6E-5G-1.jpg

Where can I get the v1.02?

---

Wow would be nice to have that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by idahosurge

I am using M6E BIOS 0711.

After I have already set this and F10 out of BIOS I have noticed that when I go back into BIOS and I change my CPU Vcore value it changes my CPU CORE RATIO from PER CORE back to SYNC ALL CORES then I have to go back and change it back to PER CORE. When you change it back my CPU RATIO LIMIT blanked out for all four cores and I had to put those values back in.

Is this a bug in the BIOS because I do not think that settings in BIOS should change on there own!

---

0711 ??? latests is 0038 and before is 0035 if im wrong somebody correct me plz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldonko

I thought mem timings were locked and not adjustable in windows regardless of software. Raja can you confirm?

---

They are locked. Those drop down boxes do nothing.

Seems now I managed to get a very satisfying sound. I was earlier connecting front panel via AC97 config instead of the HD Audio (stripped off another front panel from a case I had lying around). Now as I got the front panel rerouting speaker window functioning if I select "front speakers" as the connected device (not headphones! even if I'm using that) it to me sounds very nice. Connecting as headphone it removes a slight amount highs amount and just makes it more muffled sounding (bass also looses slight texture) and it very slightly hurts soundstage as well. All is fine though if using "Front speakers" as connected device. Now I've got a very clear sound with veeeerry wide & deep soundstage, something even the expensive SoundBlaster ZxR card can't touch!! :P

Using 5.1 speakers (all checkboxes disabled in speaker config), in levels tab (windows control panel when right clicking the audio device -> properties), "front" slider set to 98% (for slightly less "in-your-face soundstage and clearer sound) and then connected device at the front panel as "Front speakers". This seems to be the very ideal config when using headphones if you just want maximum possible sound quality. If you are using headphones, I'd give this a try, very impressive sound quality right there with some mad soundstaging which I've not experienced yet with 3rd party soundcards (why I'm using onboard). ;p

EDIT: Still slightly unsure, the mids especially seem slightly too laid-back (since I will be using WASAPI a lot of times EQing won't then work either). Maybe I have to go back to the ASRock mobo, it was better balanced to my ears, shame about the EMI noise though but it was low enough if configured amp volume low. Will definitely miss all nice ASUS software though :( But audio comes as priority #1 though as I promote and master a lot of newcomer hardstyle producer's tracks.

ASUS guys,

The Impact can't boot at 3000 with straps 125 & 100 but it was working with 3250 strap 125.
I'm using the CFR TridentX 2800 11-13-13 2x4GB and BIOS 0401 & 0038.

M6I: 3250 12-15-15-25-2T @ 1.75v
http://imageshack.us/a/img819/3488/m5mu.png

M6E booted fine @ 3000 with strap 125 and 100. But not 3250.

M6E: 3000 12-14-14-25-2T @ 1.65v
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/826/krn.png

btw, please feel free to read my reviews on M6E and M6I here:
ASUS Maximus VI Extreme - Performance Test
ASUS Maximus VI Impact - Performance Test

Team Xtreem 2666C11 (Hynix-MFR) @ 3466MHz 12-16-15-35-1T @ 1.955v on ASUS Maximus VI Impact | CPU water / RAM air

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/q...-35-1T-450.png

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/q...809_180310.jpg

Gettin' there

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1244/m9vx.png

Weekend with Impact!

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/5241/9mas.jpg

thanks Peter & TL:)

http://i.imgur.com/qM1BBdr.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/3wRnrVC.jpg

MFR time tonight, dat der valid!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by l0ud_sil3nc3

thanks Peter & TL:)

http://i.imgur.com/qM1BBdr.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/3wRnrVC.jpg

MFR time tonight, dat der valid!

---

Great mobo l0ud !!!

today i started with XP32 and tested my Gskill TX 2666CL10 Samsung IC's on the M6E

CPU Water / RAM Air ALL BOOT straight from BIOS


http://i.imgur.com/Bq1Kfyc.jpg


4770K 4900HT / 2666CL10@ 3100CL13

http://i.imgur.com/IwSUBV5.png


4770K 4967HT / 2666CL10@ 2700CL9-12-12-25 1T tight

http://i.imgur.com/gBBGWj1.png


Cheers to all !
Sergio

This is in regards to a 4770K and a Maximus VI Extreme.

I must have a bad motherboard or at least a real dog! I will explain why I think this and let me know what you think.

I have had the same results with two different CPU's and two different ram kits.

The first ram kit was a G.Skill C11 2800MHz kit. At a 4.4GHz OC with the ram set to 11-14-14-35-2T / 2800MHz I can not pass OCCT AVX even with NB set at 3900MHz it either stops on error or BSOD's. If I change the ram frequency to 2400MHz it will pass with the NB set to 4300MHz.

The second ram kit was a G.Skill C9 2400MHz kit. At a 4.4GHz OC with the ram set to 9-11-11-31-2T / 2400MHz I can not pass OCCT AVX even with NB set at 3900MHz it either stops on error or BSOD's. If I change the ram frequency to 2000MHz it will pass with the NB set to 4300MHz.

Here are the setting in BIOS that I have changed.

MONITOR MENU -
ANTI SURGE SUPPORT: DISABLED

ADVANCED MENU - CPU CONFIGURATION
HYPER THREADING: DISABLED
EIST: DISABLED
TURBO MODE: ENABLED

CPU C STATES: ENABLED
ENHANCED C1: DISABLED
CPU C3 REPORT: ENABLED
CPU C6 REPORT: DISABLED
C6 LATENCY: SHORT
CPU C7 REPORT: DISABLED
C7 LATENCY: LONG
PACKAGE C STATE SUPPORT: C3

================================================== ==========

AI TWEAKER MENU -
AI OVERCLOCK TUNER: XMP
CPU STRAP: 100
BCLK FREQUENCY: 100
CPU CORE RATIO: PER CORE
Each core set to: 44
MIN CPU CACHE: 43
MAX CPU CACHE: 43

DRAM FREQUENCY: Confirmed this is set to XMP Profile 1 value

CPU CORE VOLTAGE: MANUAL MODE
CPU CORE VOLTAGE OVERRIDE: 1.21
CPU CACHE VOLTAGE: MANUAL MODE
CPU CACHE VOLTAGE OVERRIDE: 1.30

CPU SYSTEM AGENT OFFSET MODE SIGN: +
CPU SYSTEM AGENT VOLTAGE OFFSET: 0.300

CPU ANALOG I/O VOLTAGE OFFSET SIGN: +
CPU ANALOG I/O VOLTAGE OFFSET: 0.150

CPU DIGITAL I/O VOLTAGE OFFSET SIGN: +
CPU DIGITAL I/O VOLTAGE OFFSET: 0.200

SVID CONTROL: ENABLED

INITIAL CPU INPUT VOLTAGE: 1.88

EVENTUAL CPU INPUT VOLTAGE: 1.95

DRAM VOLTAGE: 1.65

CPU SPREAD SPECTRUM: DISABLED

DRAM TIMING CONTROL: Verified memory timing

Enter the DIGI+POWER CONTROL MENU
LOAD LINE CALIBRATION: 8
CPU POWER PHASE CONTROL: OPTIMIZED

CPU POWER MANAGEMENT MENU
ENHANCED INTEL SPEEDSTEP: DISABLED
TURBO MODE: ENABLED

ADVANCED MENU -
SYSTEM AGENT CONFIGURATION; CPU AUDIO DEVICE: DISABLED

NB PCIE CONFIGURATION;
Verified PCIe slot the card is installed into displays: X16 and the LINK SPEED dropdown is set to GEN3 for the 780

DMI LINK ASPM CONTROL: DISABLED
PEG ASPM: DISABLED

GRAPHICS CONFIGURATION;
PRIMARY DISPLAY: PCIE
IGPU MULTI-MONITOR: DISABLED

MEMORY CONFIGURATION;
MEMORY REMAP: ENABLED
MEMORY SCRAMBLER: ENABLED


So now I have two different CPU's and two different ram kits that will not run a 4.4GHz OC with the NB at 3900MHz with the ram set to its rated frequency, you have to lower the frequency by 400MHz to get it to pass and then it passes with the NB raised to 4300MHz.


At this point in time I do not know what else to do but RMA the motherboard.

Does anyone know if there is a setting that I need to change that I am not changing or do I just have a bad M6E?

Maybe my real question is:

Why will C11 2800MHz ram pass OCCT AVX Enabled with the ram at C11 2400MHz and at the exact same settings C9 2400MHz ram will not pass when set to C9 2400MHz, you have to lower this to C9 2000MHz to get it to pass OCCT CPU 64 Bits AVX Linpack Enabled?


Edit, well with a vcore of 1.23, CPU @ 4.4GHz, ram @ C9 2400MHz, NB @ 3900MHz I passed OCCT 64 Bits AVX Linpack.

Hopefully I can get this to pass with the NB set to 4200MHz or better yet 4300MHz with the 1.23 vcore. I can probably go to 1.24 maybe 1.25 with the AC turned down before my max core temps get to high while running OCCT.

my best time for now


http://i.imgur.com/NB8F801.png

http://i.imgur.com/FzYodr7.png

put some nice 6:15 :)

dropped down :)

4770K 49x 102.1 BOOT from BIOS on TT Water Xtreme / MEM 2721CL9-12-12-25 1T on AIR LB 7

http://i.imgur.com/eEfZyCk.png

http://i.imgur.com/fXtvrWj.png
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2887169

Cheers to all !!
Sergio

With a vcore of 1.28 I was finally able to get past the 3900MHz NB barrier of my M6E. I passed OCCT 64 Bits AVX Enabled with a 4.4GHz OC, ram @ C9 / 2400MHz, NB @ 4200MHz.

Getting acquainted with the little guy:)

http://i.imgur.com/BxjEX4N.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/x8m6syX.jpg

Looks good LS.

testing RTL & waza files with some MFR

no wazoooo

http://i.imgur.com/gwNObG9.png

wazooooooooooo

http://i.imgur.com/SGgeo3J.png

waiting for a pci e extender to mount the Ney Pro.

M6I quick test BBSE

http://imageshack.us/a/img825/2777/8l74.png

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4363/e6yz.png

Gotta go up, up!

http://imageshack.us/a/img4/2522/hcd.png

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6039/njin.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dumo

Gotta go up, up!

http://imageshack.us/a/img4/2522/hcd.png

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6039/njin.png

---

Wohoooo congrats Dumo the lit one fly !!!

^Dumo you have inspired me, no time to wait for the extender, must do the opposite of flaccid and . . . . . . go HARD!

http://i.imgur.com/4vTxEe2.png

http://i.imgur.com/WSssHxR.png

BOOT straight from BIOS

M6E + TeamXtreem 2666CL11@ 3330CL13 :)

5075MHz HT / 3300CL13-15-15

http://valid.canardpc.com/2891664

http://i.imgur.com/nb0F9hu.png

im proud of this :)

Cheers to all
Sergio

this is a video i made to show you guys how easy to boot at the above settings :) hope you like it !

booting 5075Mhz HT 3300Mhz mem

its on my page u can visit it :)
https://www.facebook.com/AndressergioUruguayOC

or

youtube

http://youtu.be/EPAFO5wjGIQ

Looks like we have a winner, folks. I'd been enjoying the Gigabyte OC Force with the ease of high 4 DIMM clocking but the BIOS was lacking, especially when it came to memory profiles, etc. Tried the M6E once before, then AsRock Formula twice. Decide to give the M6E another go around. I guess it helps if you read the UEFI guide :doh:

http://i.imgur.com/cZ9spEB.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiranui Gen-An

Looks like we have a winner, folks. I'd been enjoying the Gigabyte OC Force with the ease of high 4 DIMM clocking but the BIOS was lacking, especially when it came to memory profiles, etc. Tried the M6E once before, then AsRock Formula twice. Decide to give the M6E another go around. I guess it helps if you read the UEFI guide :doh:

http://i.imgur.com/cZ9spEB.jpg

---

grats my friend see above reading gave me good results and a lit help from Peter lol :)

Latency boundaries and Latency Compensator are my friends :)

Just a pic of my Pandora's Box.

http://i.imgur.com/4qcaFWh.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiranui Gen-An

Latency boundaries and Latency Compensator are my friends :)

---

i reckon that LA and LB boundary are great but didnt get any good results from L Compensator, MFR , CFR or Samsung that ive tried

My Hero review is live:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...rd-review.html

Spent many hours with this board so if anyone has questions LMK!