Look at the difference. That grill is not exacting at all. 1mm bars with 2.5mm spacing.
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Look at the difference. That grill is not exacting at all. 1mm bars with 2.5mm spacing.
that sure is pretty
I just replaced my 302 with the 120.4 and idle temps dropped 3-4c and loaded 10c from 34c/57c
yeah but yours looks like alu, while fesser is carbon fiber. :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by tribaloverkill
And it looks like a camera phone pic, so it could be better then it looks.
Personally im in love with fartplume's snowflake, if we talking about stylish grills
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5...lls1015il1.jpg
By the way, TFC is going to announce CPU waterblock in the year of 2009.
The feser grill is not to my tastes at all :sick:
:woot: . . . ......oh wait.....I could care less, they're still not getting any of my money.:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterFlex
QFT, I really dont like TFC at all. It's not even the personal threats on Vincent, more that they made a carbon copy of BP's legendary comps. It is just so sleezy to me and shows what kind of company they really are. :2cents:Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
if you read this thread bp vincent was making threats against TFC, :ROTF: so i think you lot need to read though the whole thing cos some of the stuff, you guys said, then said in the thread i made on the TFC pump top.Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
it looks like you guys are a bunch of two faced WC nutters :D
but saying that both companies have problems. BP are way way overpriced and serially need to re think they prices when they sell in the uk :D
and TFC well i'm just going to wait for a few more products they got coming out before jungeing :D
Feser One is the best one. Feser radiators are the best. Feser Heat Carrier is fantastic stuff.
>.< You just shot yourself in the foot my friend... But I'm not going to bother pointing out where or how :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterFlex
Personally I'm going to wait until we actually see the Feser products, if they out-perform others then I'm sorry to those who don't like them but I'm not going to pay more for a less performing product simply based on ethics. TFC is neither the first nor will it be the last company to have impeachable work ethics.
Kind of the same reason I don't buy fair trade chocolate :shrug:
I want to buy a radiator, but I confused to choose feser quad 480 or termochill PA 120.3
a MCR-320... for that matter... a COUPLE of MCR-320!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by sasuke5275
hmm...
1 x PA 120.3 or 1 x MCP320?
king of cool = thermochill?Quote:
Originally Posted by RealRedRaider
Yep :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sasuke5275
:lol2:Quote:
Originally Posted by RealRedRaider
OK, thanks....
you do realize that that stuff is just over glorified ethylene glycol right? by itself its thermal properties are worse that water and all it does when you mix it with water is make the water less thermally conductive and heat capacitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterFlex
You sir have been rooked by the dishonest TFC plain and simple
well they finally dropped the price on there rad, so i may end up picking one up. :rofl:
SNiiPE_DoGG
I`ll give you results very soon. We`ll see what TFC is.
hahaha, your joking right? what I just told you is fact, don't even bother using it, it will only decrease your loops performance. please don't be an idiot fooled by marketing, what I am saying is proven SCIENCE.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterFlex
Fanboy or not, you have to accept the fact that they have made radiators that perform on par with the TC ones.
Fanboy or not, you have to accept that the Feser One pre-mixed cooling liquid is a good product.
Fanboy or not, don't use heat carrier products, go UV if you're bling-needy or stick to distilled + biocide.
Just wanted to chime in here with my experiences thus far with Feser. First off I want to say I am in no way affiliated with the company and am not a fanboy of them or any other company for that matter. Just about every component in my loop comes from a different manufacturer. I buy what I feel will perform the best and doesn't look like a$$ while doing it. Also, I live in Germany (where Feser is based) so that is definitely an advantage when dealing directly with them. Having said that, this is my story so far:
The first product I bought from them was a double rad. I ordered directly from the website and had some communication via email directly before and after my order. My inquiries were answered very promptly and in a friendly manner. When i received the rad, I found that some extras had been included, namely 2 very nicely built molex LED modules and a pair of compression fittings. I had the rad installed for a couple weeks before noticing it had a very small, slow leak. I contacted Feser and was again met with very prompt, friendly replies. They agreed to cross-ship a replacement to get it to me as soon as possible. I received it the next working day, installed it and it ran fine for a couple months before I re-did my loop and decided to go with a Tripple as I was adding some more blocks. I decided not to order directly from Feser this time as I found the rad for about 20 Euro cheaper from another online shop. It is currently cooling a qx9650, 790i chipset (nb & sb), and 2 gtx280's in SLI and doing a fine job of it. Temps are much better than I expected. I was afraid this would be too much for a single loop. I have it mounted in the top of my Cosmos S running push/pull with 6x Scythe S-Flex SFF21F's. There are only enough screws included to run 3 fans. I wanted to use black screws like the ones that come with the rad but they are pretty hard to find, especially in just the right size and with the right thread. I looked around a little and then decided to email Feser to ask if I could order 12 extra screws. I honestly didn't even expect a reply to this inquiry because for all they new at this point, I hadn't even purchased anything from them and a lack of response is what I have been accustomed to being met with when dealing with most German manufacturers/companies. To my surprise, I received a prompt reply saying that they would be happy to send me some extra screws at no charge and asked for my address. Great I says and gave them my information, expecting to receive an envelope with the requested screws. A couple days later a small box from the single 120 rad arrives. I open it only to find it packed full of all kinds and sizes of mounting screws and bleed screws and 3 more fan gaskets which I hadn't even asked for! A very pleasant surprise to say the least.
Sorry for being so long winded here but I just wanted to share my very positive experiences. I have found TFC to be very professional and friendly in all my dealings with them. The level of quality of the rads and feser one fluid is also top-notch. Sure the first one I had leaked but that can happen with any product, no matter how good the quality. The important thing was that they handled the problem professionally and quickly.
That's my story for what it's worth (probably nothing).
Whats Feser One Coolant like compared to other coolants ?
performs close to water and looks amazing under UV light, thats allQuote:
Originally Posted by cian1500ww
So its pretty good then :confused::confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
Ah ok, it'll have to do for me then.Quote:
Originally Posted by RealRedRaider
Yeah it's like within 2 degrees of water, and looks great under UV. As for how it performs stacked up against other coolants, it is definitely not worth $30 a bottle. Distilled will always be the cheapest, yet still effective, coolant. After all, it is called watercooling. As for me, the real question isn't in any performance gain you could possibly get from it, but about who and why you are buying it. It could be amazing and well worth $30, but can it seriously compensate Feser? I think not. :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
Actually distilled water is dearer for me to buy :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by BreeSpree
I suppose the difference between coolants is very minimal, heck they're probably all made in the same factory :rofl:
You could probably make the same thing with distilled water and car antifreeze anyway. What you are really paying for is a name, and for it to be shipped from a different country. And the difference will always be minimal. If you read the nanofluid review, that even showed only ~2 degrees headway over water.Quote:
Originally Posted by cian1500ww
its only $19.95 a liter not $30Quote:
Originally Posted by BreeSpree
and if you are making a showcase build then I see it as a must have. the only water-dye combo I have ever gotten to work is green. It works great but it sure aint blue or orange lol
I was trying to predict the total cost, water is actually pretty heavy to ship. Like $7-10. Well you could use HydrX for a UV green, which I also find easiest. There are always other options though, such as pentosin. There are also other types of bottled coolants that should work in a showcase build, such as D-Tek Tonic, for example, FluidXP+...ew, and Primochill PC-ICE...double ew.Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
well thats british engineering over the german engineering, still dont believe some yanks still think TC is american :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by RealRedRaider
So what exactly do you do to your radiators? Beat them up with some baseball bats?:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by RealRedRaider
I don't think Feser's radiators are crap quality. For sure, it depends on how you treat them and they might damage more easily, but less material used doesn't necessarily equal crap.
I would like to specify what I meant for those who didn't get the reference:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobly
When it comes to water cooling liquid, you can't beat plain distilled water with a biocide (PT Nuke for example), however if you want the UV look, water + dye tends to eventually clog up blocks, Feser One pre mixed solution tends to lead to less problems.
Performance + Ease of use = Distilled Water
UV - Feser One ^^
Remember this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavior
- COPPER is SOFTER than BRASS
- TC use BRASS for the end tanks and tubes and COPPER for the fins
- Feser use COPPER for the entire rad
I still prefer TC, they just need a 120.4.
Maybe any new radiator testing should take crash testing into account :rofl:
I remember when the rigidity of race cars was thought to be paramount for driver safety back in the day but these days they go for the more flexible lighter, safer materials.
Lets face it, most computers don't have 200mph crashes so i think we're safe there :ROTF:
People finding these radiators to be flimsy makes me curious, to be sure a thermochill you can about park a truck on without damage but I found quality to be quite good in the fesers and fit/finish first in class. Cooling capability is theoretically almost identical with the feser being slightly smaller, with standard fan spacing, fitting type and pre-threaded holes. I noted a small drop in temps going from TC to feser. Personally I never attempted any abuse test on the fesers but they seemed robust enough to cool a pc for sure and far more robust than a typical heater core.
Really, I want PICS!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by RealRedRaider
Just kidding..:)
I'm bolting and hanging my TFC480 with just four screws on the bottom two rad holes:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/Worklog14.jpg
Sure if you press in the sides of the radiator it might flex, but I haven't been able to see any real world application issues to come of that. When our bridge engineers design a bridge, we put camber into it because the weight of the bridge will cause it to flex downward. Does that make the bridge a bad design?
Materials yield and that's fine as long as it's not beyond the permanent deformation yield point. If I can hang a TFC480 from four screws only, it sure as heck is strong enough if mounted properly with all 16.
The only durability issues I've really seen with any radiator has nothing to do with the metal construction. The PAINT is however another story and the PA is no better than black primer IMO.
I think I'm going to run my TFC480 and PA120.3 together for cooling my CPU, they are both nice low restriction rads.
AND THOSE ARE THE FACTS!!!:D
@R, what fan spacing did you order your MM case with btw?
Martin unblock your PM's Dammit.
I need to show you some prototype stuff. :rofl:
Trust me your gonna f'n love it because i just spanked another block maker who said it was impossible to do it this way.
I'm fairly certain that all his fan spacing is compatible with TC rads (i.e. 30mm fan spacing). I wouldn't imagine RRR would make the mistake of ordering with standard fan spacing, especially since he has 6 PA120.3s to go into it :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by hellcamino
As am I...Makes sense to use TC rads then as opposed to rebuying half of the most expensive parts of your system...right?Quote:
Originally Posted by .Logic
Hehe, you got that right :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by hellcamino
Yes it is TC spacing.
As far as the "Great Rad Debate", no one can claim the price/performance crown that Switech Rads have. I have PA120.3 and a PA120.1, both solid construction no doubt, but if R3 hadn't given me the sweet deal on the PA120.3 and I hadn't picked up the PA120.1 from Microcenter for $50, I wouldn't have gotten either. TC and TFC are both out of my price range for something a MCR320 or MCR220 will do at a third the cost. I will say this though, TC's and I assume TFC's rads are the same with this, they hold their value unlike Swiftech or HWLabs rads. You will rarely see a PA120.3 used selling for less than a $100, whereas you can almost always find a MCR320 used for $30-$40. It's like anything else, you get what you pay for............well, except for Swiftech, they are definitely the value king.
RRR is switching all his rads to Feser, Swiftech and Black Ice :up::rofl:
Hey RRR, when are you getting rid of the BOP fittings and switching over to Koolance? :D:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnorris
Just wait till they come out and I go to Triple-SLI-Swiftech roflmao and it'll still cost less than TC or Feser!
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by RealRedRaider
He told me he was expecting some of Koolance's steel plugs later in the week :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
:rofl:
Use filtered sea water as coolant !!! Goes very well with the Koolance end plugs :D:
Simply because the rads are designed differently.
If you take the same radiator design, same thickness and dimension, and make one of brass and one of copper, the copper one will be much more easily damages, while theoretically has a higher ability to dissipate heat.
While not supporting TFC (I've bought mostly Swiftech rads myself) I must say that if you make it the same but change that one thing, it will be softer and more prone to flexing. Comes down to material choice. Could be a case where copper is detrimental.
They look so ... small.
I'll stick with the TFC 480's
Blasphemy!...Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
...I can't believe you suggested FILTERING the sea water :shakes: Unfiltered is the only way to go, the slime on the seaweed acts as a lubricant for the pump don't you know!? :p:
;)
Pretty sure GM rads use plastic, they crack at the fittings. You can thank the bean counters at the GM for that
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealRedRaider
Hateful words there big guy. You doubt my integrity :down:. I own two 480's does that make me any less if I owned 5? Take it to PM and we can discuss how much waterfront property I own, and you?
Keep it civil it was not meant in anger, I thort they look small compared to a 480.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fox3
Plastic tanks with aluminum cores.
As for the paint on the TC rads...Who talks badly of it ? You want as thin a layer of paint as you can get away with for heat transfer.
Never. I just want to see them in the case, I'm incredibly impatient I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by RealRedRaider
That is awesome, I'm just looking forward to seeing them installed...:yepp:
I have one of each (TFC and TC), I like them both. In all honesty, they are pretty much the same, similar enough performance that most people would have a hard time telling the differences there. I really don't have a strong preference either way, I only like the TFC because of the quad sizing. Both have their little quirks. The paint,barbs, and no screw threading on the TC and the M3 screws on the TFC. I wish they both had a HWlabs paint quality, M4 threaded screws, and G1/4 barbs. They could both use some minor tweaks. Neither one come close in performance/price ratio of the lower cost rads though.
You still have not shown me anything that presents some sort of failure in structural integrity. It's very basic strength of materials. You don't design anything for failure, you design for acceptable means of stresses. More than that is wasteful in materials.
Kindly show me how pushing in the sides of the radiator somehow is structurally deficient. Keep in mind the same thing happens with HWlabs, MCR, and just about every radiator out there. I don't understand where it would matter?
Squeezing the sides of the radiator is no different than pushing your thumb on the door panel of your GMC truck. It moves.......so are you driving a flimsy truck?
No, it doesn't matter. It's an appropriate design and materials working within acceptable stresses, it has nothing to do with your truck somehow being structurally deficient.
That's all I'm saying, and I don't design bridges...I'm just a roadway guy...
That I am.....:D One of our office support staff is from Texas and sometimes I have to wonder who is working for whom?..:eek::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by RealRedRaider
:up:
uhh... sorry malik we majorly derailed your thread.
You should get a mod to clean it up for ya.
Shhhh... If we're quiet he might not notice
...Sorry Malik :worship:
Settled and done..Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
But,But, I was only in 7th grade when JFK was shot..:D
RealRedRaider
I love your TC invasion :up: It`ll be the extremely loop :D
wow leave the scene for a year and a half and look what happens... I have been fussing over what to do for my liquid the whole time as straight distilled wtih pt nuke is too boring (had decided on distilled+pentosin+pt nuke+g-tek die though i couldn't decide on color) and now have decided to try out that Feser Black/UV blue water replacement.
And from my perspective on the rads the Feser seem to be more availible and aprox. the same cost as TC. Just waiting for NCIX to get the 120.4 availible and I think that will be my next rad ;)