Bowmans Mod Shop

well since my date was out of town tonight,,i stayed home and did some work..

tried a couple differant ways to use the peltier..one was air cooled heatsink....waste of time..:( the 226 pelt produces so much heat i dont gain what i want....

so next water cooled...i had a test setup setting so i tried my idea with that..it works alot better.

i took a copper pelt plate and made a holder for the drier and brased it all up....

after i clean it up it should look good...:D

here is a pic...it will take the drier to below freezing without insulation and with a poor water cooling loop..

How about setting the pelt so it is cooled by the same compressor that your are running to cool the block simmilar to the method used in a compound cooling system.

Hey Garry and folks! I've been following multiple threads in this forum during the last couple of weeks and I'm really impressed with your work! :D
However, could be please tell me and LukeK what condenser the new one is you"re using in the prommy mod? :stick:

And what about infos on bakers pre insulated block information? Haven't heard anything about that topic lately. I thought you wanted to do some testing and present a couple of pics???
Please.... :slobber:

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ya gary a good one i would use is like a laser chiller....they are a series of pelts lined up on either side of a steel plate(or copper..) and the pelts cool the plates which in turn cool the water...people have used them for water chillers for there watercooling.... to be exact my man S_I_N over at extremeoverclocking has one that he uses dual psu's to power the like 12 50watt tecs or something dont quote me on that but iknow hes runnin the pelts in a series.. ill see if he can post here to help out

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That sounds like what I had in mind. Water cooling the pelts defeats the purpose. Ultimately, the ideal would be to replace the condenser with the air cooled pelts.

Do you have pics, or a link?

How bout this?
it needs a circuit to control the input current to the pelt based on the hot side temperature.. Like a hi limit clamp.

http://www.blairwing.com/images/Peltsubcooler.jpg

Evap and cooler use on both sides for pelt. I have the autocad of this if you want to CNC it.
http://www.blairwing.com/images/Block2.jpg

The whole point of the exercise is to condense below ambient temp. You are transferring heat from one part of the system to another, with added heat from the pelt. While effectively subcooling, this is counter-productive to the goal. In your diagram, remove the pelt and you are better off subcooling-wise, but it is still counter-productive to the goal of condensing below ambient.

well gary is correct...we cannt expect the stock prom unit to handle the extra heat load to cool the pelt.it will be counter productive.i already have thought that one out...

some of you guys really dont know how hot a pelt gets do you?man they are hot...i was pelt cooling for years and they put out some heat.this one pelt puts out more heat than the entire cpu unit the prom is tring to cool.

it may still be possable for a large cfm fan to cool the air pelt..i am still going to try that.and or change the pelt size.you see once the hot side of the pelt reaches a certain point it cant cool so it just stops cooling.this one reached temps over 140f on the hot side and was barely able to keep the cold side below room temp...with the fans i tried real quick.

i know water cooling isnt what i wanted..but this one is for someone with a water cooler loop and i was told i could use the water cooling loop if nessary so i am going to do what i need to to get this project to work.

actual testing is the only anser.and i will doing alot of it.:D

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Originally posted by Freezer
Hey Garry and folks! I've been following multiple threads in this forum during the last couple of weeks and I'm really impressed with your work! :D
However, could be please tell me and LukeK what condenser the new one is you"re using in the prommy mod? :stick:

And what about infos on bakers pre insulated block information? Haven't heard anything about that topic lately. I thought you wanted to do some testing and present a couple of pics???
Please.... :slobber:

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first off..welcome to the forum:toast:

tonight i will be showing a new baker evap and mounting system on a unit i am working on..so be patient..is had been curing overnight.

the condensor i posted isnt avalable..it came off a custom unit i had...but...there are going to be some condensors out very soon for the public to buy easily i am told....i am told i am getting some to test..so we will see...:D
i proberly going to need one for a project down the road...

Being that the pelt must dissipate a large amount of heat with very small surface area, it would need to concentrate the airflow also. I am wondering if a squirrel cage type fan, as opposed to propellor type fan, would be more appropriate. And/or if there are pelts with similar ratings, but having much larger surface areas.

Large surface areas, on both hot and cold sides, would be ideal for our purposes.

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Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Being that the pelt must dissipate a large amount of heat with very small surface area, it would need to concentrate the airflow also. I am wondering if a squirrel cage type fan, as opposed to propellor type fan, would be more appropriate. And/or if there are pelts with similar ratings, but having much larger surface areas.

Large surface areas, on both hot and cold sides, would be ideal for our purposes.

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well good idea..a squirrel cage type may work better and it may fitt better...

will check into this ...:D

I occurs to me that manufacturers of air cooling tec products, such as picnic coolers, would have similar concerns (maximum surface area and concentrated airflow). We might look at how they do it.

I was presuming you were using a sc12mlx compressor running R410 the pelt idea was just a thought exersize. If you are going to use pelts to suppliment a condenser why not replace it entirley. You could effectively increase the condenser td to 30degf and condense r410 at 50 degf using 4x175 w pelts. and a 1/4inch condenser plate from lytron(they make an Stainless tube sheet, basically a flat plate.) I know how hot pelts get especially when the are under a load.


And using a thermister driven SCR you could cool the condenser proportional to the temperature.

I don't see where 700 watts of cooling is needed for 150-200 watts of load. Am I missing something?

The scr driven pelts will control the load, it would have more to do with the surface area than anything else. If you then reduce the voltage to the pelts then you get less cooling.... you need to keep the voltage above the devices barrier voltage
The control circuit would have to be a thermister and a few other components.. If we could get the condensing temp to -20 with the pelts then we could even use a higher pressure gas Like penthane. and then the prommis would be a cascade with the first satge a pelt samwich possiably in the same space as the current condenser.
I have been batting this around for a few months. An upgrade kit for the prommie to a cascade. I ordered a bunch of pelts the real problem is the condenser. Lytron has a plate that would work but 300 is too much to spend. I may call my gundrilling friend in maine to dril a 3/8 inch copper plate with 1/4 inch holes and then braze u tubes into it, or build a manifold or mill it or something...

well i was just trying to see how simple it was to run 410 on a prom..as far as the pelt goes....

but i just ran accros a little something this morning...i have been playing with refirgerant mixtures..ever since i was using co2 in my cascade...

so guys whats the coldest ever seen temp on a prom with stock compressor and condensor...?

little hint....hi side runs 250 and low side 16 hg....

not sure how a load will work...but...she is cold....-92f on the evap so far....this is something i stumbled accoss by acident:D

and i am very happy...:toast:

edit:::i am not feeling safe about the temp readout..i am going to have to pull out my fluke to double check.,,these temps seam impossable..even to me...i just watched her go to -98f....got to put the fluke on for a check...i am using a j type coupler but that doenst mean it isnt shorted or bad...always a good idea to run more tests...have to go out to buy some food for the week..so wont be back until tonight later.....:D

What refrigerants are you using?

Hi I'm S_I_N from over at EOCF Pimpsho e-mailed me about this I'm not sure if this will help but its the best pic I can find if the Photons core. Its basically a medical laser chiller that was modified to use in a computer chiller. Its a massive heatsink that has 10*55watt tecs attached to a tube that the water flows thru. This setup requires 12@25amps per series of tecs this one has 2 series. I am using 2 500 watt psus that I modified for only 12v use they both carry 34amps so I should be way under a 75% load on them.

This pic shows the core from the side you can see its a pretty big unit on the front side you can see the twin 120's that are used to cool the heatsinks that take the heat away from the tecs. On top under all that wiring and the fan is a 1/2" 90degree barb that allows water in ...on the bottom is a similar barb for the waters exit. This core can freeze water if the heat load on the water is not sufficent to maintain above freezing. I am currently running the chiller on an AMD64 setup with a single block for the cpu only and freezing has been an issue. so I just power the core on and off for now til I am done fixing things up to add heatload. I dont like antifreeze in my water mix cant stand the smell of it heheh. If you have any questions for me pm me here as I do check here from time to time or pm me at EOCF I'm normally found there hehe. I'll be rebuilding the chillers case again her in the nezt few days/weeks I'll be able to provide better pics of the core if wanted.

dope forgot the pic lol

Hey dont shoot me,but how about cooling the drier with suction line?Or shoud i stop drinking too much coffe?:)

http://www.blairwing.com/images/plate.jpg
http://www.blairwing.com/images/sink.jpg

Pelts on the plate and attach the fins and fan,,,

i was saying from the beginning these large pelts take a large heat sink...and there isnt room for one that size...that thing is as large as the prom itself almost...

i have seen those units on ebay...but the size has been my issue.

It may not need to be that large. For one thing, it has probably twice the capacity we need. And we don't know what is inside the box. I would sure like to see what is in there.

heres what the core looks like from the frontal view

I did a little checking on th epelts and they are not stable enough for what I had in mind. Maybe when the next generation of them are available.

well guys becareful when using too many types of thermocouplers like i do...i found out why my one meter was off at low end...i had a j type on a k type meter..LOL

after i double checked with the all mighty fluke..i found out why...

and becarefull too when using refrigerant...

i had a slight accident tonight..i reached over to open the valve on one of by bottles of 404 and was upside down..i fogot i had removed the hose....:(

i got a full liquid blast of 404 in my wrist...and man does it hurt right now...wrist is swealing and i have no feeling in it other than the pain under the skin...i got a feeling i just frost bite myself most likely...skin is red and tight ....man i hate not paying attention:(