Skinnee Labs - GTX480 Block Round-Up (working thread)

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07-14-2010, 07:30 AM
Biffa

Quote:

Originally Posted by churchy

Biffa: check first EK site for news before asking :)

Dammit.. wasn't there when I looked earlier :p: bet he wrote that after I asked:hitself:
07-14-2010, 09:57 AM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperchargedZ06

Well, there's all the hassle of dealing with a dead card - getting the RMA, removal, packing it up, waiting for a replacement, and then re-installing it. Not as trivial as an air cooled card. Have to bleed the system, worry about spilling fluid, messing with fittings... And the system down time to contend with. Kind of hard to run a loop that has a component missing without some re-config. Add the hassle of waiting a week or two before you can get things running again.

Not knocking EVGA or their warranty service - they are among the best. But I'd rather not have to deal with a card that died in the first place due to it being pushed a bit. If one plans on keeping things stock, I think the EVGA FTW block is great... but for those of us that want to push the cards a bit harder on water... as "Xtreme" folk tend to do, I don't think the block's design is as optimal as some of the other options that are out there.

Just my 2 cents...

Try to reflect in objective engineering and economic terms: The manufacturer knows what their product is going to be subjected to. As a result, the choice of a cooling solution is based on a set of specifications that includes cooling performance, form factor, cost as well as product liability. If the product cannot perform reliably or has a limited shelf life with the tools that are provided to the enthusiast consumer to overclock the card, then the product may become a serious liability.

You are correctly mentionning the hassle of having to deal with a dead card from your standpoint, but now put yourself in the position of a manufacturer who would have to deal with hundreds of failed cards.. it just would not make sense to expose itself to this kind of hassle for any manufacturer.

Not to say that it couldn't happen, after all mistakes are part of the fabric of our Society, but there should be a reasonable assumption that things are done the way they are because they work within the intended specification enveloppe.

In practical terms, our solution drops the VRM's temps under extreme conditions by ~ 30C's compared to stock with no noise penalty. This in itself extends the component life well beyond the original specs. There are other factors that may influence the product shelf life under extreme conditions, but excessive temperature of these components is not going to be one of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldon

You do bring up a very important point, that out of all the solutions, it is the only one that doesn't void the warranty and so for beginners it should be the preferred choice.

VRMs in general have a pretty high temp tolerance and maybe its not such a critical issue as many make it out to be. I've pretty much air cooled my vram and vrms on all my water cooled GPUs and never once had a dead card.

Thank you for thinking this thru, it is appreciated. I would only comment on your qualification of the potential users as being "beginners". I think on the contrary that people "in the know" (engineers for example, and certainly enthusiast users by extension) would appreciate the value of the argument I am presenting above.

For the record, I am in favor of rating products based on a set of objective as well as subjective features, but I think that it is important to put things in prospective with respect to the relative importance of the objective criteria. As it stands, my bona fide opinion as an engineer is that the VRM temp criterium should be placed in its proper context as opposed to being exploited for what I perceive to be marketing purposes of one kind or another.
07-14-2010, 10:46 AM
zeroibis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldon

You do bring up a very important point, that out of all the solutions, it is the only one that doesn't void the warranty and so for beginners it should be the preferred choice.

I thought the lifetime warrantied evga cards were covered as long as you can get the original ht back on...
07-14-2010, 10:58 AM
facboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeroibis

I thought the lifetime warrantied evga cards were covered as long as you can get the original ht back on...

yes, afaik that's right. as long as u return it in the same physical condition that you got it in, warranty will be honored.
07-14-2010, 12:59 PM
Coldon

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

Try to reflect in objective engineering and economic terms: The manufacturer knows what their product is going to be subjected to. As a result, the choice of a cooling solution is based on a set of specifications that includes cooling performance, form factor, cost as well as product liability. If the product cannot perform reliably or has a limited shelf life with the tools that are provided to the enthusiast consumer to overclock the card, then the product may become a serious liability.

You are correctly mentionning the hassle of having to deal with a dead card from your standpoint, but now put yourself in the position of a manufacturer who would have to deal with hundreds of failed cards.. it just would not make sense to expose itself to this kind of hassle for any manufacturer.

Not to say that it couldn't happen, after all mistakes are part of the fabric of our Society, but there should be a reasonable assumption that things are done the way they are because they work within the intended specification enveloppe.

In practical terms, our solution drops the VRM's temps under extreme conditions by ~ 30C's compared to stock with no noise penalty. This in itself extends the component life well beyond the original specs. There are other factors that may influence the product shelf life under extreme conditions, but excessive temperature of these components is not going to be one of them.

Thank you for thinking this thru, it is appreciated. I would only comment on your qualification of the potential users as being "beginners". I think on the contrary that people "in the know" (engineers for example, and certainly enthusiast users by extension) would appreciate the value of the argument I am presenting above.

For the record, I am in favor of rating products based on a set of objective as well as subjective features, but I think that it is important to put things in prospective with respect to the relative importance of the objective criteria. As it stands, my bona fide opinion as an engineer is that the VRM temp criterium should be placed in its proper context as opposed to being exploited for what I perceive to be marketing purposes of one kind or another.

Gabe, you misunderstood, i don't mean that beginners are the entire potential market, but that rather the evga card would be a better option for beginners. I myself would have bought it given the choice and while I'm not as experienced as some members I'm by no means inexperienced. This is now my 4th watercooled build.
07-14-2010, 01:01 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldon

Gabe, you misunderstood, i don't mean that beginners are the entire potential market, but that rather the evga card would be a better option for beginners. I myself would have bought it given the choice and while I'm not as experienced as some members I'm by no means inexperienced. This is now my 4th watercooled build.

Thanks for clarifying :up:
07-14-2010, 01:28 PM
zeroibis

Well I got my 480 running on air with the fan set to 100% until I figure out what block to get. Good thing my headphones block most of the sound, this is a great reminder as to why it is worth the money to watercool!
07-14-2010, 01:47 PM
UrbanSmooth

So, I guess I should get my circuit changed over to 20A before I add a third GTX 480 and waterblocks. Anyone know how to go about this?
07-14-2010, 02:02 PM
JokerCPoC

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrbanSmooth

So, I guess I should get my circuit changed over to 20A before I add a third GTX 480 and waterblocks. Anyone know how to go about this?

Call an Electrician, You may or may not need a city or county building permit to make alterations, You'll need at the very least a 20A breaker and a 20A Outlet, plus a 12 gauge cable, Local building codes apply of course, Here We use Romex(Some places require Armored cable by code of course), I have Romex cable for My PC, Although I do need to move the outlet closer to My PC one of these days. I'd taken out a troublesome 60A 230v breaker and outlet and reused the 10 gauge cable for two 20A circuits, the 10 gauge cable feeds into two 12 gauge cables and works rather nicely. One circuit has My swamp cooler on It and the other has My PC on It. I hope this helps some. I'm not an Electrical Contractor, I just have experience in having had this done.
07-14-2010, 06:19 PM
Erdrick1980

Quote:

Originally Posted by xguntherc

WOW..

I got my Nickel+Copper DD in and I'm going to be adding it to my card today. It's a pretty one also.
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7899/dsc1902.jpg

I do have a question. I'm worried about the Weight of this Block. it is very, very heavy. This will be my first GPU to be watercooled so maybe I'm just worried. but it sure is way heavier than i thought it would be.. Do people use a support bracket coming up from there PSU or anything. lol

Couldn't wait anymore so ended up going to Microcenter and bought me the Danger Dan Block. only thing is they had satin copper, wonder if there are any good places in NJ where i can nickle plate the top part like yours and maybe some way to polish that bottom part. and yeah man i agree with you, this thing is heavy!! lol
07-14-2010, 07:23 PM
airwolves

Yea nice block I got the Nickle top and bottom. It is heavier than it looks.

Guess when the results come out those that waited are going to be waiting for backorders. ;) Part of the reason I went ahead with the DD block. I'm not pushing the system to max anyway but I wanted to be able to game and not sweat. Use to be 92c gaming and now i'm 54c gaming. :)
07-14-2010, 07:27 PM
Erdrick1980

Haha! yea man, its funny you mentioned that. Thats exactly one of the reasons i bought it too.. freaking hot as hell here. lol
07-14-2010, 07:37 PM
UrbanSmooth

I guess the important question here is, what temps are you guys getting on your VREGs, if you can record that temp?
07-14-2010, 07:58 PM
H2O

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrbanSmooth

I guess the important question here is, what temps are you guys getting on your VREGs, if you can record that temp?

I don't think the GTX480s have VREG temp sensors, which is why Skinnee had to devise his own setup.
07-15-2010, 08:21 PM
ringhal

Sorry this is slightly OT, but is there a FAQ on how to interpret those graphs? I checked the beginning of this forum with no luck.

Thanks.
07-15-2010, 09:17 PM
zeroibis

English/Math Dictionary...?

Actually I sort of know how you feel I remember when I first read one. Just look at them long enough and once you see a few of them you will understand. :up:
07-15-2010, 09:38 PM
Systemlord

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeroibis

English/Math Dictionary...?

Actually I sort of know how you feel I remember when I first read one. Just look at them long enough and once you see a few of them you will understand. :up:

The more I look the more I begin to understand! :D
Warning, your brain may vary and the results will be there waiting for you to put it all together! :rofl:
I think the DD and the EK blocks will be side by side in the results once Skinnee is finished, but I believe the EK block will lower GPU temps better than the DD block!

-Systemlord
07-16-2010, 01:06 AM
Random.Prophecy

Couldn't wait either over here so got an EK FC480. Worked out brilliant as it was my first time watercooling. Got the temps down from 78@load to now 43@load with 22 degree ambient. Clocks are Core:911; Shader:1822; Mem:2005(1002) and Voltage@1.125mV.
Even so, I'm still eagerly awating the results!
07-16-2010, 12:00 PM
Wryknow

For the record, I am in favor of rating products based on a set of objective as well as subjective features, but I think that it is important to put things in prospective with respect to the relative importance of the objective criteria. As it stands, my bona fide opinion as an engineer is that the VRM temp criterium should be placed in its proper context as opposed to being exploited for what I perceive to be marketing purposes of one kind or another.[/QUOTE]

Well I bought two of the EVGA FTW cards and am very pleased with them. I thnk that the comnparatively light weight and single slot form factor are big pluses and my VRMs haven't fried yet (crosses fingers.) It seems like a reasonable risk to me though given the exceptional warranty offered on these by EVGA. Yes, it will be a PITA if I have to replace a card and it will cost me some time and money for shipping. EVGA on the other hand has to pay for someone to process the RMA, receive the part, credit my account and pick and ship a replacement. This is in addition to buying and assembling the replacement card. That's an expensive proposition for them and I doubt that they would offer that warranty unless they were reasonably certain that the failure rate will be very low. They could be wrong of course but the worst case scenario is that I'm out some time and money for shipping.
07-16-2010, 05:40 PM
UrbanSmooth

Tempted to go with EK blocks, but, for some paranoid reason, I just have to wait for these results. AARRGGHHH!
07-16-2010, 07:29 PM
Section8

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrbanSmooth

Tempted to go with EK blocks, but, for some paranoid reason, I just have to wait for these results. AARRGGHHH!

I think all of these blocks will perform within a few degrees of each other. The only block I still don't really care for is the Bitspower one. Other than that I don't think you could go wrong with any of them. My Koolance blocks have exceeded all my expectations.
07-16-2010, 08:11 PM
Johnny87au

Quote:

Originally Posted by Section8

I think all of these blocks will perform within a few degrees of each other. The only block I still don't really care for is the Bitspower one. Other than that I don't think you could go wrong with any of them. My Koolance blocks have exceeded all my expectations.

Yeh, 3C at the most, Im heading towards some Ek blocks for SLI
07-16-2010, 08:25 PM
scottc19

3 months and no results, what is going on!
07-17-2010, 09:03 AM
zeroibis

The results being written on cake is a lie.....
07-19-2010, 10:45 AM
Camaroz06

I guess I'm just going EK unless there is an update in the next day or two, was hoping for some #'s while I was on vacation.

Nice 900th post in the thread :)

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